21st Rapid Deployment Division
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Someone had bring out the ACTS reguarding the post in this and some other topics. Pls read below... some point are to make known and some points are kept for a reason/s
Some points had been bring up again and again and it had not been reply or avoided and some ppl just dun understand and keep on drill on it.
It is clear that line had been draw for that point or 2. It oni show _____ on that person.
I like to say again to those who has not serve, yet to serve or had serve but know little, pls get your FACTS (if you can, the correct way) before post any reply here for the due respect to the guys who had and has to serve right now and of cause also to avoid you yourself from any embarrassment in-ter-net. -
LOL, I have been to the camp when they were still called themselves 7 SIR in the early 80s, enuff said !!!!Originally posted by Joshua1975:Seen? Yah you seen, when I giving the excution comand, excute, excute, excute. You were playing with your new gameboy. Dun come in here by heard say from this and that than say you seen. FYI again, the 1st Guards BN was not from any SIR. This you can find in-ter-net.
As for airborne trained AFV operators, I am not the only one to say that .
You tot becos you once a regular, you will know everything, that is something called need to know, thus if are you not, you will not be given the knowledge.
This is how SAF operated , everyone know that!!!
Therefore how the hell will u know abt things happens in an armour camp since you not in there? They purposefully tell u huh????
When I was in the army, you are the one still playing gameboy!!!!
I already ROD twice, and u still in there, so please dun assume!!!!
When I was young, there were only marbles and spiders!!!! What's gameboy????
As I said, you are so retrictive in your thinking that you cannot think out of the box, SOP evolved as time goes by, you are stuck in one!!!
I hope not everyone in the army is like you, otherwise SAF will never grow!
I am now not interested to have any discussion with a big kid like you. -
double post
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Originally posted by erijazz:
They WERE once called 7 SIR and 8 SIR... -
Some ppl tot he know everything & become overbearing!!!!Originally posted by erijazz:They WERE once called 7 SIR and 8 SIR... -
Wrong -Originally posted by gary1910:LOL, I have been to the camp when they were still called themselves 7 SIR in the early 80s, enuff said !!!!
1st Guards were formed from SAPGU (1977)
2nd Guards were formed from 8SIR (1978 )
3rd Guards were formed from 7SIR (1980)
Check MINDEF's website
I was from 1st Guards. I was around when 21Div was first formed as well. -
21 Div was form after I'd ROD... time fly fastOriginally posted by bcoy:Wrong -
1st Guards were formed from SAPGU (1977)
2nd Guards were formed from 8SIR (197
3rd Guards were formed from 7SIR (1980)
Check MINDEF's website
I was from 1st Guards. I was around when 21Div was first formed as well.
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1989?1990?Originally posted by erijazz:21 Div was form after I'd ROD... time fly fast -
My bad , 7 SIR was indeed converted from infantry to guard, but not 1st Guard, memory failing me, maybe I am getting old!!!Originally posted by bcoy:Wrong -
1st Guards were formed from SAPGU (1977)
2nd Guards were formed from 8SIR (1978 )
3rd Guards were formed from 7SIR (1980)
Check MINDEF's website
I was from 1st Guards. I was around when 21Div was first formed as well.
Anyway, I said some infantry units were converted to Guards units when need arises, therefore there will be changes, when the operational need changes.
Just becos how things operate at the moment , does not means that it will not be changed in the future. -
heheh... i can understand your feeling.Originally posted by quivalen:riggers - blech! [/img]
To me, it doesn't matter how the rigger who rigged my chute looked or has what kind of personality. So long as she rigged my chute well and i can still walk after landing, i'm thankful to her (or whoever rigged my chute) for keeping my life intact to fight one more day.
Josh, i X 2 agreeOriginally posted by Joshua1975:Someone had bring out the ACTS reguarding the post in this and some other topics. Pls read below... some point are to make known and some points are kept for a reason/s Some points had been bring up again and again and it had not been reply or avoided and some ppl just dun understand and keep on drill on it. It is clear that line had been draw for that point or 2. It oni show _____ on that person. I like to say again to those who has not serve, yet to serve or had serve but know little, pls get your FACTS (if you can, the correct way) before post any reply here for the due respect to the guys who had and has to serve right now and of cause also to avoid you yourself from any embarrassment in-ter-net. -
My point was - 1st Guards were formed from SAFGU, not 7SIR.Originally posted by gary1910:As I said some infantry units were converted to Guards units when need arises, therefore there will be changes, when the operational need changes.
Just becos how things operate at the moment , does not means that it will not be changed in the future.
Yes, there will always be changes. My unit's last role was to operate with light armour support. I've done everything from Guards heli-ops, amphibious-ops, and armour trooper, in one NS man cycle. -
My bad , 7 SIR was indeed converted from infantry to guard, but not to 1st Guard, memory failing me, maybe I am getting old!!!Originally posted by bcoy:My point was - 1st Guards were formed from SAFGU, not 7SIR.
Yes, there will always be changes. My unit's last role was to operate with light armour support. I've done everything from Guards heli-ops, amphibious-ops, and armour trooper, in one NS man cycle.
Yup, when I was there, they were telling me abt the conversion, and they are proud abt it.
My point of bringing up 7 SIR was to highlite the point that SAF never stay stagnant , SOP & doctrines changes to meet new operational needs or new threats. Otherwise they will be irrelevant.
New skill and capability will be inducted when it is deem necessary. -
Well well well... I like the last part 'not interested to have discussion'Originally posted by gary1910:LOL, I have been to the camp when they were still called themselves 7 SIR in the early 80s, enuff said !!!!
As for airborne trained AFV operators, I am not the only one to say that .
You tot becos you once a regular, you will know everything, that is something called need to know, thus if are you not, you will not be given the knowledge.
This is how SAF operated , everyone know that!!!
Therefore how the hell will u know abt things happens in an armour camp since you not in there? They purposefully tell u huh????
When I was in the army, you are the one still playing gameboy!!!!
I already ROD twice, and u still in there, so please dun assume!!!!
When I was young, there were only marbles and spiders!!!! What's gameboy????
As I said, you are so retrictive in your thinking that you cannot think out of the box, SOP evolved as time goes by, you are stuck in one!!!
I hope not everyone in the army is like you, otherwise SAF will never grow!
I am now not interested to have any discussion with a big kid like you.
If you wish to reply or discuss, than reply in full. 1st part 1st. Why? If you have no facts on this pls say so old man. It just pure calculation on distance to made your point stand.
Originally posted by Joshua1975:
Next to your point above.
LAPES low altitude- we're talking really low altitude. Passes are made at about 2 to 10 feet off the ground. It's done at high speed too, around 130 knots.
Pls if you have no idea what C130 is, at least read what you give us http://www.parachutehistory.com/military/lapes.html 130kmh and 130knh is so much diff you know or not? 866m??? ask any CDO in here what is the DZ for them to drop 15 man than you come back ok. FYI the whole DZ is made up 2 X BZ or some call it SZ and 1 X DZ. No need to seach any more as I say you cannot find military air traffic related subject on net. someone had reply a point or 2 to you point above on 7SIR things and the rest of the details I will keep from you knowing.
Next:
As am I a Armour? CDO? GDS? SIG? ENGN? ARTY? Been to the camp or not? Train or X-train or whatever your point on Therefore how the hell will u know abt things happens in an armour camp since you not in there? to everyone knows as they purposefully tell everyone some of the "knows" is how SAF operated during your time when there were only marbles and spiders dying oldman. SOP evolved is nothing. SAF evolved and still is.
As for restrictive in thinking, looks like you are the one here.
If you say you are that old than you got Parkinson's Disease is it? Read again oldman. X2 Some points had been bring up again and again and it had not been reply or avoided and some ppl just dun understand and keep on drill on it.
I am just being restrictive restricted. Have or dun have and how SOP evolved as time goes by, oldman like you will never have any ideas for you are not serving now as what you had say Run Out Of Date 2 time. Looks like this is the oni place I think you will get to know some need to know or want to know abt things now old man.
I am not the one to tell you what that you want or wish to know and this will be the last reply to you.
Yah, by the way and again do the math on DZ and let everyone here know you are wrong in, by youSince it is really not representative to C130 but I believe is abt there , for C130 at 130km/h , 12 sec is abt 433m. So to be on the safe side , let double the time needed for the C130 for such operation , that means abt 866m. ( but I dun think so think such a long time is needed)
Therefore I think for a C130 to perform such operation is abt 1km length for such operation, most probably lower cos I have given a lot leeway. All sport car will be flying when wing is fix as they can move more than 130km/h -
Some veteran will just keep to the point and not cross the line.
Some old and sick will drill and dig on the point and cause it to be cross over.
Hey hey but that life in forums
To the sick; Why not get back to the site that you try to get me there and blow all your know how there. -
Kid, now to resort to name calling & personal attack!!!!
Why?, you want to beat up old man???
Kids!!!!
Well , 1 knot is abt 1.85km/h. How will that be 12 sec?
800m , X2 is 1.6km.
That are other armies still using it, and you are only restricted to your only area of operation!!!!
Dunno whether I am older or you are? Stuck in 1 track mind!!!!
As for why I hv suggested an airborne armour asset?
I tot I have already answer in at least two of the postings.
Increase flexibility by having firepower, protection and strategic mobility against the possible enemy's armour threat when deployed.
Currently , it is quite weak in firepower & armour if the amphi AFVs is not available.
SAF was thinking converting the Guards into airborne eventhough KIV was to increase the operational flexibility by increasing it's strategic mobility.
The same reason that I have suggested, to increase operational flexibility, that is the main point of why RDF is created in the first place issit? -
Yep.
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unless the AO is beyond the range of heli, else heli-borne will be more flexibility & mobility than para-borne, with consider of our local terain.Originally posted by gary1910:SAF was thinking converting the Guards into airborne eventhough KIV was to increase the operational flexibility by increasing it's strategic mobility.
The same reason that I have suggested, to increase operational flexibility, that is the main point of why RDF is created in the first place issit?
heli-borne can get you directly or very near to the objective, where para-borne will need a large DZ, which might not be eazily available. -
True, but I was suggesting in adding more dimension to our RDF.Originally posted by lion02:unless the AO is beyond the range of heli, else heli-borne will be more flexibility & mobility than para-borne, with consider of our local terain.
heli-borne can get you directly or very near to the objective, where para-borne will need a large DZ, which might not be eazily available.
The same reason why SAF was considering the Guards to be airborne trained.
Airborne/Heli borne armour assets is to me a real need, considering our neighbours armour asset , I am sure during such RDF operation , they will most probably meet some of or even up to a mechanised bde when detected.
The reason is that the enemy will send in their most mobile & fastest force i.e. mechanised/ armour units to counter our RDF when deploy.
When that happens, our RDF will be pale in comparsion in term of armour and firepower. -
You want to join in the fun of name calling? Who start name calling who kid and who call who dying old man?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yep.
Yep li gee tua tui. -
airborne train is not difficult, but to maintain the airborne currency.... the facilities, the assets, the resource....Originally posted by gary1910:Airborne/Heli borne armour assets is to me a real need,
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this is where the apache comes in.Originally posted by gary1910:considering our neighbours armour asset , I am sure during such RDF operation , they will most probably meet some of or even up to a mechanised bde when detected.
The reason is that the enemy will send in their most mobile & fastest force i.e. mechanised/ armour units to counter our RDF when deploy.
When that happens, our RDF will be pale in comparsion in term of armour and firepower. -
Look who writing NAME CALLING? Dying oldman look to be the facts as some state it by himself. If calling other big kids is not NAME CALLING why dying oldman is and when it a facts from that person?
Lose out on facts and cannot take it than dun come in to forums without any in the 1st place. Drilling on the point of unknown, not sure such as DZ distance with ppl doing it get you no where but oni out of point.
To all reading this now the topic on 21st Rapid Deployment Division. When lose ground on the facts, pls dun bring in other country RDD? That is out of point.
Can have and the Needs to have is a big diff. For those who think to hit an ABG need another ABG or bigger force pls look at topic Weapon Talk ~ Spike and one more which not in the orbat; the Apache which the whole world know we have some.
SAW a low fly pass and called it LAPES? Than SG will have lots of F15, F18... because many ppl SAW it fly in our sky.
SOP evolved is nothing. SAF evolved and still is, that is something, but someone just oni evolve within and still want to cross the line.
Out of point here ~ I look back at Weapon Talk ~ Spike than I know someone had ask me to go another Military Nuts forum to evolve within one. What a guy. -
Nomore LAPES...Originally posted by gary1910:I remember last year Airforce 35th celebration in TAB, where a C-130 flew in low to the runway as if she was going to land , but it just flew for a while , only a few meters above the runway then takeoff again.
Was the pilot demonstrating the C-130 LAPES capability in front of the audiences?
I think so. -
You don't need armoured assets to counter opposing armour. Heli-ops offer the advantage of mobility - now I'm here, the next moment I'm somewhere else. Not forgetting the use of attack helicoptors as well.Originally posted by gary1910:True, but I was suggesting in adding more dimension to our RDF.
The same reason why SAF was considering the Guards to be airborne trained.
Airborne/Heli borne armour assets is to me a real need, considering our neighbours armour asset , I am sure during such RDF operation , they will most probably meet some of or even up to a mechanised bde when detected.
The reason is that the enemy will send in their most mobile & fastest force i.e. mechanised/ armour units to counter our RDF when deploy.
When that happens, our RDF will be pale in comparsion in term of armour and firepower. -
Gary & joshua. it rather silly reading some posts which are really "Po liao".
and just to remind you that when you posted, you are not only sharing your views with us but throughout the world.
Beside that its also a reminder to all forumers posting in militarynut -
On a completely unrelated note to the mud-slinging above... I am moved to turn your attention to the b/m post
That is incorrect. The ADF Bn continues to answer to that nomenclature. Their main duties are not to support UN Missions. And if you looked hard enough, you will also find that the soldiers' pay is same as every other regular in SAF. Just that they receive allowances in their UN tours, allowances which every other sevicemen (none-ADF) also happened to receive in said tours.Originally posted by John Ching:Lets be realistic, ADF by whatever name we interprate it is not its actual name due to the fact that they can be disbanded if MINDEF decide that they are no longer needed as their main duties are to support the United Nation missions. Thats why their contract is much different from other regulars.Originally posted by Joshua1975:
That is completely off the mark. They exist as an independent Bn, but logistically and administratively are supported by an active Bde. ATEC constantly suffers from a shortage of manpower, especially whenever each batch of aggressor ORDs. So ADF tags along 1. to conduct their own exercises overseas 2. to keep their sharpness in the field.
An outfit in itself? Maybe but they are somehow under ATEC now.
Career no good? 'They' somehow feel this is one thing on the guys mind and I think they had made some changes and for sure the tour is not recognised but just take into consideration.
Guys in ADF and later move back to unit will find it hard to adapt the unit SOP somehow as they have get used to the 'moves' in ADF. I met a few during my course last year and some had just come back from oversea, and they keep saying behind the instructors back, where got like that one, sure die lar... talking about tactics and moves
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The troopers in ADF do get promotions.
Finally, the idea that ADF exists solely to experiment is quite ridiculous, when you remember that their troopers are the only ones in Sg to have done any form of Ops. In fact, I go as far as to say the tactics soldiers practise in NSF units, ie. inf Bns, guards Bns, and even Cdo Bn are very tailored to rack up good ATEC scores. The training cadre in ADF has no such concerns as ADF does not go through ATEC evaluation, so ADF can do away with all the 'wayang'. The considerations in their preparation are only operational in nature, not some dodgy system where you are killed by some Umpires' randomly pointing finger.