Fire for Effect?
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hiz!
juz asking whenever frontline troops ask for artillery support...
they will say "fire for effect" or " fire at will" (any other command?)
what's their actual meaning?
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"Fire for effect" essentially means no (more) marker rounds needed to adjust fire. The shells are landing on top of the targets & it's time to bomb their brains out!
FYI There's different types of arty fire missions: registration fire, adjustment fire, fire for effect ("FFE"), harassment & interdiction ("H&I"), time on target ("TOT"), illumination ("illum"), et al.
The arty officers who follow the infantry are either Forward Observers ("FO", Lieutenant rank) or Fire Support Officers ("FSO", Captain rank), assigned to COY & BN levels respectively. Unlike the Americans, our local versions have Technical Assistants ("TA") who carry the signal sets & may help plan/call the fire missions over the comms. I was both a FSO & FO TA during my NSF.
A new bird is usually trained to adjust-fire - or with prior luxury time, registration-fire - before executing a FFE, but I suppose immediate FFEs will be the norm come wartime.
"Fire at will"? That's for the M16's during range shooting, isn't it? -
range? i tot it's OWN TIME OWN TARGET, CARRY ON
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FFE = Drop what you have and bomb them outta existence.
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Basically it means, NO need to zero in liao. Open fire with available batteries and designated number of rounds.
"Fire for "EFFECT"" think full effect of artillery fire. -
better hope you're snug and tight in your foxhole when that happens!
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haha... yah... and pray that u stacked enough earth on your FOPK...
but there'll still be casualties one... at the very least, u will emerge a bit "gong gong" and shell shocked from the foxhole...
or more serious, u will end up with bleeding nose and ears... ruptured eardrums, mild concussion.
worst case is if a shell falls right on top of your trench and the thing blows u apart, or your trench buries u alive
its never pleasant to have stuff blowing up around u... -
I can vaguely recall something more powerful than a FFE: executing a "Delta Target" fire mission.
Can others confirm this: the latter entails firing all BN mortars (or equivalent) at one go? [I didn't follow the infantry during my reservist.] -
"fire for effect! danger close!"
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hiz!
then what does 'fire at will' mean for artillery? -
fire at will not for arty... how can arty be fire at will... then everyone oso die included own forces
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FFE :- various type of terrain:- open, closed or fortified. Meaning it will use different type of round combination, qty & fuse setting as for above mentioned above. FFE basically is used for target that is survey & register (unless arty unit not enough time or tgt that is out of the registration bracket) in order to obtain high casualties rate. (Based on past war experience). Normally is fire by 1 bty.Originally posted by Moxie:I can vaguely recall something more powerful than a FFE: executing a "Delta Target" fire mission.
Can others confirm this: the latter entails firing all BN mortars (or equivalent) at one go? [I didn't follow the infantry during my reservist.]
Delta tgt :- tgt size which is bigger than 1 bty arty unit can be engaged or irregular shape tgt.
Danger close: - Normally danger close is used for tgt that is not range or register &
target that is less than safety range from the advance trooper or even firing at it own position when ĂâCĂâ is overrun it own position (for own position that is register/range, it will be code word broken arrow). -
Yes there is fire at will for arty, in some scene.Originally posted by erijazz:fire at will not for arty... how can arty be fire at will... then everyone oso die included own forces
Usually for target area, it is send to the arty by map co-ordinates, of course this is generally acurate. However usually a few spoting maybe use to make sure first. However, there are times when overwhelming enemy force is in the area, and they are ready to move out or over running a base, which does not let the luxurious of spoting rounds. Firing at will, which mean fire as fast as you can, this is in hope of doing the most damage. -
Hmm! Since the explanation for Fire for Effect has already been given very clearly, I guess I would just point out that FFE was first used by the WW II Naval Gunners. NG being far out at sea from land requires the shore party to zero their gun shots. The ground arty of WW II never invested in these phrase then, was because they were usually able to see the enemy & didn't need a FO or FSO. However, who is responsible for coinning the phrase, would probably remain unknown.
SAF, its ashame that only arty specs & officers are trained to call for arty fire. In war, can the number of FO & FSO really be every where in battle? -
I think at range you given command of number of round you are allow to fire at what target, for example like " 100m 4 round grouping , own time own target carry on!!"Originally posted by kopiosatu:range? i tot it's OWN TIME OWN TARGET, CARRY ON
Fire at will is a command when issue, you could fire any number of rounds as long you see a target within your scope of fire in your range card and I believe also within your weapon effective range.
In this case is infantry defence ops that I have given such command, not sure abt arty.
Night firing is quite something, you will see all the tracer rounds from small arms weapons, GPMG and illum round from M203 etc.
Those who have went for Bn live firing in Sudong will know what I mean. -
erijazz is right, ther can be no fire at will. you can call for a repeat on the same target, the firing unit will the same amount on the same target.Originally posted by storywolf:Yes there is fire at will for arty, in some scene.
Usually for target area, it is send to the arty by map co-ordinates, of course this is generally acurate. However usually a few spoting maybe use to make sure first. However, there are times when overwhelming enemy force is in the area, and they are ready to move out or over running a base, which does not let the luxurious of spoting rounds. Firing at will, which mean fire as fast as you can, this is in hope of doing the most damage.
if you just call fire at will, at whose will are you firing at, the GPO, the FOO, the OC etc.
remember, the firing unit(s) and the FOOs are at different locations. orders have to be clear -
not only FSO, FOO (it's actually FOO), arty specs. other officers can also call if needed.Originally posted by John Ching:Hmm! Since the explanation for Fire for Effect has already been given very clearly, I guess I would just point out that FFE was first used by the WW II Naval Gunners. NG being far out at sea from land requires the shore party to zero their gun shots. The ground arty of WW II never invested in these phrase then, was because they were usually able to see the enemy & didn't need a FO or FSO. However, who is responsible for coinning the phrase, would probably remain unknown.
SAF, its ashame that only arty specs & officers are trained to call for arty fire. In war, can the number of FO & FSO really be every where in battle? -
In the past, SAF do trained non-arty officer caller... Officers and NCOs trained for basic target calling before the rifle coy are attach with FO and FSO. Its goes like tis; "Target! Target! Target!" (to identify that you are not a trained arty officer or MFC) then follow by the types of fire/ammo and duration of fire etc...
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oh yes.. non-arty officer calling for fire course. i went for that. quite interesting..Originally posted by erijazz:In the past, SAF do trained non-arty officer caller... Officers and NCOs trained for basic target calling before the rifle coy are attach with FO and FSO. Its goes like tis; "Target! Target! Target!" (to identify that you are not a trained arty officer or MFC) then follow by the types of fire/ammo and duration of fire etc... 
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Yah, somemore with computer aided simulation... interestingOriginally posted by wuming78:oh yes.. non-arty officer calling for fire course. i went for that. quite interesting.. -
There is no fire at will in arty unit, not sure about the organic mortar pl in the infantry unit.
If the same tgt need to be bomb again, the FO/FSO could call for the same engagement code again, provided ammo is enough from the arty firing unit as they do have other tgts need to be engaged for further battle.
Note that arty unit does not carry a lot of rounds with them & the replenishment is not easy at well, as such no. ff round for firing is limited & are control by div arty command. -
Originally posted by Moxie:
There are also other vocations other than the FO that call for fire...
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The arty officers who follow the infantry are either Forward Observers ("FO", Lieutenant rank) or Fire Support Officers ("FSO", Captain rank), assigned to COY & BN levels respectively. Unlike the Americans, our local versions have Technical Assistants ("TA") who carry the signal sets & may help plan/call the fire missions over the comms. I was both a FSO & FO TA during my NSF.
"Fire at will"? That's for the M16's during range shooting, isn't it?[/b] -
There are also other vocations other than the FO that call for fire...
Sure there is/was. I recall working together with a rep for the 81mm mortars when we were together in Brunei (forgot the vocation name). He was an ex-primary school classmate of mine, so we exchanged notes & got on like a house of fire.
There was this incident when a trainer, testing the CO's aptitude, asked him to call for the mortar fire himself, & he gabra-ed. -
since not his 'tan jia', of course can garbar lah. it can really get rusty if one seldom practiseOriginally posted by Moxie:Sure there is/was. I recall working together with a rep for the 81mm mortars when we were together in Brunei (forgot the vocation name). He was an ex-primary school classmate of mine, so we exchanged notes & got on like a house of fire.
There was this incident when a trainer, testing the CO's aptitude, asked him to call for the mortar fire himself, & he gabra-ed. -
appointment you mean? MFC?Originally posted by Moxie:Sure there is/was. I recall working together with a rep for the 81mm mortars when we were together in Brunei (forgot the vocation name). He was an ex-primary school classmate of mine, so we exchanged notes & got on like a house of fire.
There was this incident when a trainer, testing the CO's aptitude, asked him to call for the mortar fire himself, & he gabra-ed.