Singaporean Amphibous capability
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16 MiG-29 and 18 SU-30MKMOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Similar stuff will happen to SG , SG will not have any technological edge as the region progresses as a whole. Can Singapore survive a joint strike ?
Yes (due to indonesia having 4 latest SU-30 and poorly maintained F-16 jets
and M'sia having 8 F/A-18 , lesser den 30 MIG-29s and lesser then 30 SU-30) -
JSF is sort of better as it is "stealthy"
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RMAF has only 8 F-18, 16 MiG29 and 28 Hawk100Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Finally someone who agrees partially with me
The Both perceived Northern and Southern neighbours, both is going to develop well in the next 50 years to come after weathering through the
1997 economic crisis.
Indo and M'sia has 220 million people, + we must not forget the rise of
religious fundamentalists in the country ; therefore we will definitely must be aware of them
220/5million in the future = 21 times.
that means our current GDP PCI of 38,000 , they just need 38,000/21
to match our current Economy , and they will development much more
lets say it becomes 10,000 PCI in the future , take 10,000 x 220million and you get 1 heck of a extremely strong region.
Sooner or later, SAF's unique edge will be overtaken .
Israel managed to have it's unique edge in 1973, Yom kippur war and Six-day war because very simply-speaking , it received latest delivery of F-15 aircraft to counter the poor MiG-23s and MiG-21 which Syria and Egypt was using.
But now , Most country in M.E has latest aerial and ground technology...
So now neither does israel has numerical or technological edge.
Can israel survive a joint strike now? Most likely No
Similar stuff will happen to SG , SG will not have any technological edge as the region progresses as a whole. Can Singapore survive a joint strike ?
Yes (due to indonesia having 4 latest SU-30 and poorly maintained F-16 jets
and M'sia having 8 F/A-18 , lesser den 30 MIG-29s and lesser then 30 SU-30)
Can Singapore survive a joint strike in the future? When technology is at par
and the human factor comes in? and numerical advantage nevetheless..
I dun agree with you. Many Malaysian chinese still has a bias towards NS.
Their GDP maybe high, but GNP is not. In fact, it is 10 times lower
Malaysian soliders are not well educated in English. You see their pilots have to go through 1 year of English training.
It takes very long to keep up especially their prog has stopped again and they are still having a mindset that Singapore is a easy target.
Also, 70% of MAF troops are obese -
oh ya calculation error 220/5 million = 24
nevertheless, we must not forget they may low in numbers in air and sea,
but if they really conduct forced heavy military drafting in times of war,
like some countries will do mandatory military drafting of citizens during war time , most of them will be untrained but we must know that we might be facing another probably 500,000 untrained drafted civilians who has been put inside the army.
16 MiGs and 18 SU-30 and some lekiu and scorpenes may not be that good
and 8 F/A-18 , in comparison to our numbers of F-16 and A4-SU and F-5 interceptors.
But, they may purchase more in time to come when their economy progresses,
thats when the balance of power slowly shifts.
Taiwan used to be strong in the 1970's when the cultural revolution stuff.
Should have declared independence back then.
The later taiwan declare independence, the more chances of it having to face a war. Military balance is always VERY VERY important
Balance of power shifting more and more to China.
Israel's Balance of power shifting to other M.E states
and pple on israelforum.com is also quite worried.
Singapore's day may come 1 day.
Look at taiwan, Taiwan might have some nukes or something on it's arsenal should the matter gets worser , now it got Aegis and kidds class destroyers.
Now it's considering even striking three gorges dam and killing 20 million people who will die in the flood , if taiwan gets taken over in 1 month
and the armed forces of TW will definitely lose out, then the Mutually assured destruction theory will come in.
I also don't see any wrong when you have 600 tactical nukes pointing at a country vs a strategically aimed ICBM pointing at a major city.
Better to take some precaution *Ahem* with some underwater WMD
rather then to lose a war and lose $100 billion of reserves when our whole nation is taken hostage.
The only way to escape satellite detection is not through underground.
But underwater.
America's Anti Ballistic missile program has clearly missed out 1 stage .
The satellite over north korea is programmed to detect heat at launch and activate the kill vehicle.
Supposing the missile launch is underwater, the heat would have been masked and underwater launch of ICBMs is the most threatening.
Cause if you take a sub and launch it ..say 2,000 km from North korea by a kilo class sub. Who do you think the USA will blame if the missile hits America?
Definitely not North Korea..hehe too much Tom Clancy liaoz
No country will be so stupid to launch a missile from its home ground and risk a attack from USA later.
Plane launch is also stupid. Why?
Even easier for the satellite to detect missile launch over the pacific. -
You talk nonsense or what? We have 48 F-5, 67 F-16 and 60 A-4SUOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:oh ya calculation error 220/5 million = 24
nevertheless, we must not forget they may low in numbers in air and sea,
but if they really conduct forced heavy military drafting in times of war,
like some countries will do mandatory military drafting of citizens during war time , most of them will be untrained but we must know that we might be facing another probably 500,000 untrained drafted civilians who has been put inside the army.
16 MiGs and 18 SU-30 and some lekiu and scorpenes may not be that good
and 8 F/A-18 , in comparison to our numbers of F-16 and A4-SU and F-5 interceptors.
But, they may purchase more in time to come when their economy progresses,
thats when the balance of power slowly shifts.
Taiwan used to be strong in the 1970's when the cultural revolution stuff.
Should have declared independence back then.
The later taiwan declare independence, the more chances of it having to face a war. Military balance is always VERY VERY important
Balance of power shifting more and more to China.
Israel's Balance of power shifting to other M.E states
and pple on israelforum.com is also quite worried.
Singapore's day may come 1 day.
Look at taiwan, Taiwan might have some nukes or something on it's arsenal should the matter gets worser , now it got Aegis and kidds class destroyers.
Now it's considering even striking three gorges dam and killing 20 million people who will die in the flood , if taiwan gets taken over in 1 month
and the armed forces of TW will definitely lose out, then the Mutually assured destruction theory will come in.
I also don't see any wrong when you have 600 tactical nukes pointing at a country vs a strategically aimed ICBM pointing at a major city.
Better to take some precaution *Ahem* with some underwater WMD
rather then to lose a war and lose $100 billion of reserves when our whole nation is taken hostage.
The only way to escape satellite detection is not through underground.
But underwater.
America's Anti Ballistic missile program has clearly missed out 1 stage .
The satellite over north korea is programmed to detect heat at launch and activate the kill vehicle.
Supposing the missile launch is underwater, the heat would have been masked and underwater launch of ICBMs is the most threatening.
Cause if you take a sub and launch it ..say 2,000 km from North korea by a kilo class sub. Who do you think the USA will blame if the missile hits America?
Definitely not North Korea..hehe too much Tom Clancy liaoz
No country will be so stupid to launch a missile from its home ground and risk a attack from USA later.
Plane launch is also stupid. Why?
Even easier for the satellite to detect missile launch over the pacific. -
lol The amount of F-5 we got is correct.
But the amount of F-16's and A-4Su is much much more then what you mentioned
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You better keep it a secrect. In fact, you may have more better planes... SO KEEP YOUR MESSAGE AWAY THISOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:lol The amount of F-5 we got is correct.
But the amount of F-16's and A-4Su is much much more then what you mentioned
But we have 110 A-4 -
Ssssssssshhhh. Dun tell anybody. I store a few nukes at home.
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we bought a total of 110 A4 from the US. But I don't think all are upgraded to A4S1 (F404 engine) or A4SU (avionics upgrade) standard.
And I doubt all are operational. I think probably reduce over time.
We have a lot of F5. Those US stocks. Excess Jordanian AF F5 (open source) and also 3 brand new F5 about less then a decade ago from the US, the last three 3 F5 ever built from parts stored at Northrop.
Easily more then 40+ F5
My guess is
F16 - 70-80 (including US based and leased)
F5 - 40+
A4 - 40+
Total of about 150 combat aircraft. Easily more then the Indonesia and Malaysia combined. -
Balance of power is not a balance of military arsenal. We don't balance 18 Astros 2 with 20 apaches, so if malaysia has 50 Astros we don't buy 100 apaches. We should never need to use a nuke to balance power just because we are small.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Israel managed to have it's unique edge in 1973, Yom kippur war and Six-day war because very simply-speaking , it received latest delivery of F-15 aircraft to counter the poor MiG-23s and MiG-21 which Syria and Egypt was using.
But now , Most country in M.E has latest aerial and ground technology...
So now neither does israel has numerical or technological edge.
Can israel survive a joint strike now? Most likely No
Defence strategies are not decided by what we have and what they have. Wars are not fought with both sides standing in lines facing each other and throw whatever we have at each other.
Besides hardware, outcome of wars are also decided by software which will never be fully tested till actual conflicts.
Historical events provide many useful lessons but unfortunately our paper general is too young to know and obviously did not bother to find out.
Facts about the sixth day wars and 1973 Yom Kippur War. The Eygptian and Syrian did have superior weapons provided by the then USSR when the wars started. At the time of these two wars, F-15 and F-16 were not even in USAF service yet. IDF was still flying Mirrage 111, the Kfir and Skyhawks. By 1973 when the war started, the arabs were equipped with the more superior MIG 23, SAM 6 and shoulder launched anti tank missiles, I think it was Sagger. These last two weapons took the Isrealis by surprise in the battle field.
IDF won the 6 day war because they launched a surprised attacked which destroyed the arab air forces on the ground. No super weapons were used.
Isrealis was taken by surprised in 1973 when Eygpt attacked them by surprise during the festival. Their planes suffered heavy losses but finally their armoured brigades out maneuvered and surrounded the 3rd Eygptian Army in Sinai, forcing them to surrender. If superior weapons were used, it was the arab who used them.
Both wars illustrated that surprise and initiative are critical, mobility and well trained soldiers who are familiar with their weapons can turn the tide of a war.
Superior weapon did not win wars, the soldiers did. -
--edit double post----
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I won't..trust meOriginally posted by paperchicken:Ssssssssshhhh. Dun tell anybody. I store a few nukes at home.
Btw , are u keeping your nukes at sub zero temperature?
Nukes might get reactive if you don't store them on low temperature underground vaults.
I remembered a few times in which the F-15 enter combat service in Israel during 1 of the wars.....
Oh ya sorry it's 1973 yom kippur, i was refering to 1982 lebanon war.
Israel won because USA keep on over-supplying it with weapons
and a good army planning to counter pple coming from suez canal and syria
during the combined assault
they also managed to hold key areas of the enemy, to establish a safety barrier to block them from attacking
i won't reveal the true amount of planes and all the type of planes we got, whether classified and un-classified.Originally posted by sbst275:You better keep it a secrect. In fact, you may have more better planes... SO KEEP YOUR MESSAGE AWAY THIS
But we have 110 A-4
HaHa , im just wondering our country so tiny, yet can be so rich.
Even if KL just by itself oso couldn't survive without depending on the other states like johor and malacca,terengannu etc..for resources
Cheers on our 39th Birthday!
To Everyone visiting this post:
A pity your country phased out A-4 Skyhawk so fast,
If you all do a quick search on internet, The A-4 Skyhawk was designed as a plane to carry nuclear bombs during the cold war..(you all didn't know right?)
A pity though , the A-4 had weak radar -
Kinda shows how much the desktop general knows. Comparing desktop soldiers with real live flesh and blood.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Balance of power is not a balance of military arsenal. We don't balance 18 Astros 2 with 20 apaches, so if malaysia has 50 Astros we don't buy 100 apaches. We should never need to use a nuke to balance power just because we are small.
Defence strategies are not decided by what we have and what they have. Wars are not fought with both sides standing in lines facing each other and throw whatever we have at each other.
Besides hardware, outcome of wars are also decided by software which will never be fully tested till actual conflicts.
Historical events provide many useful lessons but unfortunately our paper general is too young to know and obviously did not bother to find out.
Facts about the sixth day wars and 1973 Yom Kippur War. The Eygptian and Syrian did have superior weapons provided by the then USSR when the wars started. At the time of these two wars, F-15 and F-16 were not even in USAF service yet. IDF was still flying Mirrage 111, the Kfir and Skyhawks. By 1973 when the war started, the arabs were equipped with the more superior MIG 23, SAM 6 and shoulder launched anti tank missiles, I think it was Sagger. These last two weapons took the Isrealis by surprise in the battle field.
IDF won the 6 day war because they launched a surprised attacked which destroyed the arab air forces on the ground. No super weapons were used.
Isrealis was taken by surprised in 1973 when Eygpt attacked them by surprise during the festival. Their planes suffered heavy losses but finally their armoured brigades out maneuvered and surrounded the 3rd Eygptian Army in Sinai, forcing them to surrender. If superior weapons were used, it was the arab who used them.
Both wars illustrated that surprise and initiative are critical, mobility and well trained soldiers who are familiar with their weapons can turn the tide of a war.
Superior weapon did not win wars, the soldiers did. -
Don't be stupid, Modern generals are all desktop generals, they just stay on MINDEF headquarters and order the troopers here and there.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Kinda shows how much the desktop general knows. Comparing desktop soldiers with real live flesh and blood.
You think modern day generals are like yue fei , use horse charge the enemy first?..real live flesh and blood? your seriously lagging 2,000 years behind. -
So does that comment make YOU more capable than them? Command and Staff college is not for rest and relax. Even their computer "games" are more realistic than your so-called greatest military RTS. They have to content with human factors thrown at them in such games and they can handle it, you on the other hand do not have such problems and sit comfortably in your chair and air-con room trying to teach us what the miltary is about. Want to teach me how to fire the M203 as well?
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Generals need to be recruit then ocs trainee first. Then they have to raise through the ranks before they become generals in Mindef headquarters.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Don't be stupid, Modern generals are all desktop generals, they just stay on MINDEF headquarters and order the troopers here and there.
You think modern day generals are like yue fei , use horse charge the enemy first?..real live flesh and blood? your seriously lagging 2,000 years behind.
Zhuge Liang didnt ride horse and fight enemy also. He did the planning and somebody else do the fighting. -
Hmmm, I dun see any horses around today. You must be referring to the palace cavalry guard in Buckingham. Oh, what's this? Are we not real live flesh and blood? Well, I guess our desktop general's evolved beyond that point while the rest of us still have to maintain our blood flow to that FLESHY thing called a brain.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:use horse charge the enemy first?..real live flesh and blood? your seriously lagging 2,000 years behind. -
We still need soldiers to fight on the ground. I,Robot is still in the movie stage.
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Forget it lah! This kid is convinced that playing computer games (and that includes ridiculously inaccurate ones like Red Alert) is similar to real life, so let's let him live in his own fantasy world.
You will only end up with a heart attack trying to convince someone of his mentality that real life is different from his Red Alert. -
If you cant convince them, confuse them.
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I think WAR has evolved over the years......and today there are many more dimensions to it.
No longer is it just solely about 3x SU30s vs 100x F-16s or 30x PT91s vs 200x Merkavas S......
It's also about CLOB, Overseas Ringgit Deposits, Price of Water (treated and untreated) and the threat of cutting it off, high level talk of 'small red dot' etc
I think probability of Conventional WARS between states is diminishing and in this region it's fading further and further away.
In it's place....comes something even more deadly......and I don't think Singaporeans are aware of it - judging by the postings on this forum.
Still it's important to maintain the military balance till it becomes clearer......don't want another Falklands.
But there are much more cost effective ways to do so - like Rexton SUVs!
Money saved can go elsewhere. Eg cross border economic co-operation. -
You don't know history, your knowledge of geography sucks. 1982 lebanon was fought in lebanon, not suez. There was no troops coming from the suez, which by then was returned to Eygpt after Camp David Accord. The war was fought between the isrealis and the PLO. No Eygptian troops and no syrian troops involved and there was no combined assault. It was IDF 's assault into lebanon to rid PLO from regular shelling across the border.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:i won't..trust me
Btw , are u keeping your nukes at sub zero temperature?
Nukes might get reactive if you don't store them on low temperature underground vaults.
I remembered a few times in which the F-15 enter combat service in Israel during 1 of the wars.....
Oh ya sorry it's 1973 yom kippur, i was refering to 1982 lebanon war.
Israel won because USA keep on over-supplying it with weapons
and a good army planning to counter pple coming from suez canal and syria
during the combined assault
they also managed to hold key areas of the enemy, to establish a safety barrier to block them from attacking
Don't try to smoke us with statement like "they also managed to hold key areas of the enemy, to establish a safety barrier to block them from attacking" !!! what key areas, what safety barrier??? you don't know what are you talking about.
You better stay away from the Red Alert. It is making you nuts!! -
He's trying to impress ppl by talking like he knows a lot about military history & tactics, but its pretty obvious he knows crap! Kids!!
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Let's not waste any more time.When people want to show off their inadequacy by living in their own world, there's nothing we can do right?
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Conventional Wars between states are still being fought in Iraq, and could erupt in the korean peninsula or the Taiwan straits. It has not faded any further.Originally posted by Fairyland:I think WAR has evolved over the years......and today there are many more dimensions to it.
No longer is it just solely about 3x SU30s vs 100x F-16s or 30x PT91s vs 200x Merkavas S......
It's also about CLOB, Overseas Ringgit Deposits, Price of Water (treated and untreated) and the threat of cutting it off, high level talk of 'small red dot' etc
I think probability of Conventional WARS between states is diminishing and in this region it's fading further and further away.
In it's place....comes something even more deadly......and I don't think Singaporeans are aware of it - judging by the postings on this forum.
Still it's important to maintain the military balance till it becomes clearer......don't want another Falklands.
But there are much more cost effective ways to do so - like Rexton SUVs!
Money saved can go elsewhere. Eg cross border economic co-operation.
CLOB, water supplies.... those were disputes, not war, there was not even a skirmish. But events as such if not handled properly can lead to wars. We have not gone to war with Malaysia and lets hope we will never have to.
There are many other ways one country can do to dominate another, but it is war that bring deaths, devastations and destruction to physical properties.
Cross border economic co-operation, like the Singapore/Johore/Batam economic triangle???