Singaporean Amphibous capability
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Dear sir, as what i said, our nuclear arsenal will only be possible when our neighbours act insensitively. I think although going nuclear is insensitive in our part, it is the only logical way for securing a deterrent.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:I fail to see your point. What makes you think our purchases were not insensitive from their point of view? So if we do go nuclear, what makes you think they won't? How does it feel to have someone point a WMD at your face or is total annihilation out of your calculations?
If they have 50 Astros2 and subsequently go nuclear, i dun see a major difference because the effect of 50 Astros2 is the same as the effect of 1 nuclear weapon to Singapore, however for an additional point of view, that one nuclear missile is much easier to down rather than 50 Astros2. -
Malaysia Institude of Nuclear Technology!
http://www.mint.gov.my/
Hehe i bo lie to you all
Malaysia has BEEN involved in nuclear technology research if you all
DON'T know .
Time to start forming Singapore Institude for Nuclear Technology soon!
i will go there and study
http://www.mint.gov.my/policy/default.htm
PM Mahathir's Speech at International Nuclear Conference
Singaporean attitude always like that , believe we are better etc etc..
Haiz now u all den realise malaysia is VERY advanced on nuclear technology.
It can even improvise Astros to carry tactical nukes a few years from now.
haiz singaporeans gd luck.
Outside keep on saying bo arm with nukes, but ANY logical person will know that with nuclear technology research , how far are you from nukes?
Anyway we are not too late , hopefully the silver bullets mentioned is really SRBM
Now i have proven 3 stuffs
-Our neighbours have been involved in nuclear technology research.
-Singapore will not entirely be destroyed in a nuclear fallout.
-We, Singaporeans must not think we are the Best in S.E.A cause
it might lead to us losing the military balance , anyway gd luck to a
Research institude is located at Bangi, Selangor near KL
Glad that this is proceeding into a high level of talks..
Now we got might have few steps
1. Secretly admit that our neighbour is involved in nuclear technology research.
or
2. Continue as being , let them do their nuclear technology research and perhaps nuclear technology advancement on ASTROs
or
3. Protest like mad in front of UN.
or
4. Counter develope silver bullets, improving our armed forces , although we know that if they strike first , most of our armed forces will be lost. -
Malaysia had been involve in that energy research for years, it is nothing new and there are no indication that they are going to produce Nuclear weapons mainly because of technological, financial and political reasons.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Malaysia Institude of Nuclear Technology!
http://www.mint.gov.my/
Hehe i bo lie to you all
Malaysia has BEEN involved in nuclear technology research if you all
DON'T know .
Time to start forming Singapore Institude for Nuclear Technology soon!
i will go there and study
http://www.mint.gov.my/policy/default.htm
PM Mahathir's Speech at International Nuclear Conference
Singaporean attitude always like that , believe we are better etc etc..
Haiz now u all den realise malaysia is VERY advanced on nuclear technology.
Btw, they are not VERY advanced on nuclear technology. -
How you know?
Did you remember what their defense minister told us when during the water problem?
"Singapore got TWO choices, Either *********** or go to war."
i believe u all heard before.
What makes you think that they can anyhow say stuff without having backup?
they clearly know that their military is behind you in terms of technology.
UNLESS they had special "bullets" thats why they can make such a statement -
Doing research and building nuclear weapons is different. Building a nuclear weapon is not that simple.
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Why is everybody so paranoid about the ASTROS? What's a few missles as compared to a few hundred artillery guns? They should be the one that's concerned at this imbalance to which they have every right to try and remedy.Originally posted by foxtrout8:Dear sir, as what i said, our nuclear arsenal will only be possible when our neighbours act insensitively. I think although going nuclear is insensitive in our part, it is the only logical way for securing a deterrent.
If they have 50 Astros2 and subsequently go nuclear, i dun see a major difference because the effect of 50 Astros2 is the same as the effect of 1 nuclear weapon to Singapore, however for an additional point of view, that one nuclear missile is much easier to down rather than 50 Astros2.
Plus to go nuclear without a legitimate reason is amounting to being a rogue state. It will only be legit reason if we give them the excuse they need, just like India did for Pakistan and that incident almost brought about a nuclear war. -
I think the reason why they want to suggest war is the same reason why they wanna make a big woo-ha over the water, pendra blanca and our reclaimed lands.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:How you know?
Did you remember what their defense minister told us when during the water problem?
"Singapore got TWO choices, Either *********** or go to war."
i believe u all heard before.
What makes you think that they can anyhow say stuff without having backup?
they clearly know that their military is behind you in terms of technology.
UNLESS they had special "bullets" thats why they can make such a statement -
Why is everybody so paranoid about the ASTROS? What's a few missles as compared to a few hundred artillery guns? They should be the one that's concerned at this imbalance to which they have every right to try and remedy.
Their current strength of 18 Astros2 ,++ as option is understandable, however as i had said many times, the reason why we must go nuke is when they overwhemmed us with conventional weapons that Singapore cant match symmetrically.Plus to go nuclear without a legitimate reason is amounting to being a rogue state. It will only be legit reason if we give them the excuse they need, just like India did for Pakistan and that incident almost brought about a nuclear war.
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It wont be illegitimate to go nuclear if our neighbours overwhem us insensitively with their strengths, tilting the balance to our big disadvantage in the future. Under that circumstance, it is them who gave us no alternative...... -
His 2 dimensional reasonings don't make any sense at all in the first place. He probably thinks of himself as a prodigy who only knows how to defeat Artificial Intelligence.Originally posted by paperchicken:Doing research and building nuclear weapons is different. Building a nuclear weapon is not that simple. -
Even the PM's son got give backing towards the MINT (Malaysia Institude of Nuclear technology) and they are much advanced then us in terms of nuclear building and they have some good ties with Pakistan and Libya and Iran (both predominantly nuclear power nations )
All nuclear weapons research all comes from those simple lines
"harnessing nuclear technology blah blah blah"
In the end, they will still end up making the nuclear weapons.
People who study stuff , you will know it is all just a pretext , and furthermore
ASTROs and MINT all at the same time , don't you think it's abit too ming xian liao?
Common sense lar just ask you all lar, aiyoyo ,
i research on Nukes and i buy missiles and replace the warhead with nukes.
Duhz. Whats the point of spending millions EACH YEAR if the MINT doesn't advance in terms of research and development???
They are proceeding towards stage 2, which is either a nuclear plant or nuclear bomb.
Don't tell me they make MINT without any primary or hidden agendas.
Just for the research blah blah blah. Even DSTA and DSO and A*Star labs also got objectives 1 lor. Even Malaysians who come to Singapore to find job also have a agenda to make more $$. and furthermore the 1st Cabinet in Singapore , is formed BY some malaysians.
and singapore progressed ( we can't deny that) due to the presense of them. -
Originally posted by foxtrout8:
I think the following and quash your nuclear "dream"
It wont be illegitimate to go nuclear if our neighbours overwhem us insensitively with their strengths, tilting the balance to our big disadvantage in the future. Under that circumstance, it is them who gave us no alternative......[/b]
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty [NPT]
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, also referred to as the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), obligates the five acknowledged nuclear-weapon states (the United States, Russian Federation, United Kingdom, France, and China) not to transfer nuclear weapons, other nuclear explosive devices, or their technology to any non-nuclear-weapon state. Non-nuclear-weapon States Parties undertake not to acquire or produce nuclear weapons or nuclear explosive devices. They are required also to accept safeguards to detect diversions of nuclear materials from peaceful activities, such as power generation, to the production of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.
The NPT is the most widely accepted arms control agreement. As of early 2000 a total of 187 states were Parties to the NPT. Cuba, Israel, India, and Pakistan were the only states that were not members of the NPT. -
Pakistan , Iran and Libya happens to be friends of our neighbour ,
and they have not signed any nuclear treaty stuff leh.
They got 1 thing in common .
If we just need to offend them , they will just proceed towards Stage 2.
Even countries who do research on nukes ALSO got hidden agendas 1 lor.
Even small little kids got agendas when it comes to certain stuff , they
"act ke lian" so they can get your attention
(of course we are smarter then small little kids)
What's more a grown up adult? -
I know of the NPT long ago, thanks.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:I think the following and quash your nuclear "dream"
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty [NPT]
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, also referred to as the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), obligates the five acknowledged nuclear-weapon states (the United States, Russian Federation, United Kingdom, France, and China) not to transfer nuclear weapons, other nuclear explosive devices, or their technology to any non-nuclear-weapon state. Non-nuclear-weapon States Parties undertake not to acquire or produce nuclear weapons or nuclear explosive devices. They are required also to accept safeguards to detect diversions of nuclear materials from peaceful activities, such as power generation, to the production of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.
The NPT is the most widely accepted arms control agreement. As of early 2000 a total of 187 states were Parties to the NPT. Cuba, Israel, India, and Pakistan were the only states that were not members of the NPT.
Brother, you realli think that building nuclear weapons is beyond our capability down the road, technologically and politically? -
Building a nuke for our capability? No
Building a nuke for our neighbour capability? Why Not ? they already done it
for quite some years liao ahem..
Even poorer countries like Libya and north korea also can get involved in nuclear program, why can't our neighbours do it? Yawnz!
They just need to pump in some money in addition to the scientists who
is researching there
Everyone do who do anything has a hidden agenda.
Agenda is always the most deadliest stuff , cause you never know what they are thinking. Unknown Unknown , Known Unknowns.
Why would they pump in something that will bear no fruit?
Would a farmer pump in $10 million USD into researching of fruits without having a END-product in mind? -
You guys can go on entertaining this paranoid & childish boy. Enough is enough for me. The mere sighting of his name is enough to make me retch.
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Malaysia has no immediate threat why would it want to built a bomb to incur the warth of USA ? Where is it going to get the raw material and where is it going to test the bomb?
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Astros is a rocket system, it is not a missile. Typically a battery has 6 launchers and one fire control vehicle. Knock out the FC vehicle then the rest can only display fire works.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Why is everybody so paranoid about the ASTROS? What's a few missles as compared to a few hundred artillery guns? They should be the one that's concerned at this imbalance to which they have every right to try and remedy.
Plus to go nuclear without a legitimate reason is amounting to being a rogue state. It will only be legit reason if we give them the excuse they need, just like India did for Pakistan and that incident almost brought about a nuclear war.
It is an artillery saturation rocket system, or MLRS (multiple launch rocket system), designed to give saturation fire power but it lacks the accuracy of a howitzer. If you want any detailed analysis you have to ask the artillery guys.
The only concerns is its range. The version malaysian bought carries 4 rounds per launcher with a range of 60 - 80km. If we keep them north of Johore state then it will not threaten singapore.
What I am certain is that this is just another artillery!! it is not a strategic weapon and therefore does not tilt any strategic balance.
One apache with 16 hellfire can take out ONE complete Astros battery without any problem. That is what happened to the Iraqi Astros during the gulf war.
I won't worry too much about it. -
I'm joining you. I should have realised I was trying to tell a stone to roll over. Must be my failing eyesight.Originally posted by esesce:You guys can go on entertaining this paranoid & childish boy. Enough is enough for me. The mere sighting of his name is enough to make me retch.
It seems his wild ideas have also gained a supporter, or was he brainwashed by the incessant baseless arguments. You may know of the existence of the NPT but you dun seem to grasp its implecations. -
No, i am not his supporter. Im just trying to forward the idea that in the future Singapore cannot match our neighbours symmetrically and we have to resort to other means to match their capability, not in support of his words.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:It seems his wild ideas have also gained a supporter, or was he brainwashed by the incessant baseless arguments.
If you are a old bird here, you will know that the idea of having WMD in the future had been debated here before, before SBSK is here. I am one of the supporter for WMD since then.
It will be interesting to debate with you about the WMD issue, of course with reasoning and not blind bashing. Anyway, examples of SBSK is everywhere in any forum, local and overseas thus be very prepared to meet 'overly N2' people or those in the worst case senario always in the forum.
Cheers and relax. -
If north korea and iran can get it so easily..Why not?Originally posted by paperchicken:Malaysia has no immediate threat why would it want to built a bomb to incur the warth of USA ? Where is it going to get the raw material and where is it going to test the bomb?
Where is it going to test the bomb? SG? lol
You don't need accuracy when aiming at singapore, just aim anywhere and u hit a place already.
I believe mahathir has said before , "if a missile were to hit sG , most likely will have casualties , but if hit m'sia most likely is not effective"
Thought iraq using Scuds not ASTROS? -
I am joining you.Originally posted by esesce:You guys can go on entertaining this paranoid & childish boy. Enough is enough for me. The mere sighting of his name is enough to make me retch. 
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Brother, in the sake of national survival, treaties doesnt stand much at all as seen in history. Look at Israel with her nuclear weapons, America with her NMD dream, Russia infringing treaties before the end of cold war for the sake of national survival.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:It seems his wild ideas have also gained a supporter, or was he brainwashed by the incessant baseless arguments. You may know of the existence of the NPT but you dun seem to grasp its implecations.
I dun think you get my point of being overwhemmed conventionally while you cant match up symmetrically. There is nothing i can do if you fail to see my point despite giving you examples of how smaller countries try to match up with a bigger country whom have everytime more capable to outfight her. It is also my point to bring forward that two nations with nuclear standoff capability having the capability to destroy each other, ceteris paribus have equal standing despite the difference in size and conventional numerical strength, however two nations with differences in size and con.numerical strength have different standing, this lead to instability. -
If north korea and iran can get it so easily..Why not?
North Korea and Iran didnt get the technology easily. They spent years on developement, money on collaboration and alot of political stabbing.You don't need accuracy when aiming at singapore, just aim anywhere and u hit a place already.
Whats your point?
I believe mahathir has said before , "if a missile were to hit sG , most likely will have casualties , but if hit m'sia most likely is not effective"
Thought iraq using Scuds not ASTROS? -
Simple i was refering to other post on why ASTROs no need to have precision.
Why our primus etc..needs precision.. -
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U jolly know that we cant afford to operate 100 Astros in terms of manpower.
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It is not if we can afford, it is whether we need to. We are sticking to our howitzers.
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Do you see the threat of 50 Astros? Do you see that it is much easy for them to launch 40 Astros at us before all 50 Aircraft can be off in the sky? Do you see that the Astros are strategic weapons and our 50 Aircrafts are not and do you see that it is to our disadvantage?
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What is strategic weapons to you?
Astros are vehicle-mount, need to be deployed, which then required them to move in convoy. There are not submarine launched or can launch directly from underground silo. If they have 50 batteries which means there are at least 50x15 vehicles excluding vehicles for personnels. The question is not is it easy to launch but are they anymore difficult to detect and destroy than any other artillery system? The answer is No. So there is no difference if Malaysia were to buy a hundred pieces of howitzer.
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As i had said many times, there is a limit for Singapore to match the race with conventional weapons, over that limit, Singapore have to go WMD style. That apply to Israel, Pakistan, Japan and Taiwan.
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The limit is not limited to the population and the land mass. The limits also include political, financial, personnels, training.....there are limits to us, there are limits to them as well. So what is the limit, over which Singapore will have to have nuclear weapon as deterrence?
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You are damm sure that they are willing to lose 22 million people (for malaysia) for just 4 Million people?
I do not see why are they at an advantage in terms of population and land when we launch 10 nukes at them, destroying 10 of their cities. The cost for them is too large for them to pay.
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The question is: are you going to risk 4 million singaporean, in order to destroy 22 millions malaysia? Put it another way, IF, SAF were defeated, will you launch nuke at them, knowing that they will retaliate with nuke, whether you will kill 22 million of them or not is not important, what is certain is the 4 million singaporean will perish!! Will you??
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You are bloody wrong. The Isrealis nuke had ever since detered conventional war on Israeli soil for many years, although war had been wage before when Israel went nuclear, the ME countries now see that attacking Israel will be damm costly with 500 Nuclear warheads in their hand. Do you see potential security challenge from Jordan , Egypt and Syria now? And why do you think Iran want to go nuclear?
Comeon, India will not hessitate to throw a few nukes as well as Pakistan as well as Russia to US in the Coldwar, as well North Korea currently. But it is because of a nuclear deterrence by someone, somewhere that prevent such ^^$& to happen. If North Korea do not have a credible nuclear deterrent, US will think much less into going a war. Same goes to the other example
Please do not disregard the deterrent effect of a nuclear arsenal.
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No, the power balance has tilted in favour of Isreal who were supplied with more advance weapons, conventional ones; relatively speaking, the USSR who used to supply weapons to the Arab were going down hill and eventually disintegreted!! Since when has Jordan been any security challenge to Isreal? They lost the west bank to Isreal in the war in 67 and finally gave up the area in 88 to PLO. Egypt since signing the the Camp David Accord has not been hostile to Isreal. Syria's joining the Allied forces in 91 against Iraq was a clear demonstration of Syria's walking in line with the international community. I have no doubt Isreal is in possession of nuke, but further wars in the middle east were not averted by these nuke!! I doubt they have 500 warheads.
North Korea's nuclear arsenal is a threat to Japan and south korea and it is not a deterrence. Do you think US is afraid of the nuke from North Korea?
Nuclear weapons can be deterrence, but its importance has been reduced after the cold war. don't treat it like God.
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Comon, Tengal Airbase had been for years a potential taget for terrorist and Commando attack. Remove it ok?
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Every building, shopping center,... is a potential target for terrorists attack. Why would commando want to attack airbase? blow up planes, control towers?? When a bomb rip up a building, ppl died from the blast of the bomb, or the falling debris. When a bomb damage a nuclear plant, ppl died from radiation. Make the comparison yourself.
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For all respect, it think this is native of you to think like that.
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don't know what you are talking about.