Can China defeat US aircraft carrier groups ?
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China is said to be developing large missiles that is capable of crippling aircraft carriers.
Now, it appoints two top naval strategists who are well versed in Aircraft Carrier Warfare.
So if Sino-US war breaks out, can China defeat US carrier groups ? -
can... if they get extraordinarily lucky.... otherwise, forget it...
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China keeps bragging about what they have developed without considering that even though they are improving, the US is also improving. So while CHina might have come up with something new in their arsenal, you can count on the US to also have something up their sleeves. They don't have to brag about it like China does, can always be classified.
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that is a tricky qns.....it really depends on where the US carrier is and how many there are and how many ships defending it
Currently with the US ready to commit up to 7 carriers to the area.....it'd be tough.China has a delicate balance to strike....between having to hit US forces......Taiwan forces and leaving enough at home to defend itself.
While China has over 2000 planes i do not see it being able to spare more then 1,200 for taiwan.....and it is known that China plans to send 800,000 troops in an invasion.....the chinese army numbers either 1.2million or 2.2 million i'm not too sure(forget lah) but they are downsizing to put more effort into technology.And the bigger the missiles.....the bigger targets they are......so easier to shoot down.
The main threat for a CVBG has and always will be submarines.At present the Chinese sub force is quite average......so they shldnt trouble the US ASW yet..... -
Its time for US to deploy the Arsenal ship
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Yes, Lucky recon, sat pics wadever... n nuke the carrier battle group.
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u are completing ignoring the PAC II and PAC III missiles
present
each cost $2m to $3million
to all those lao jiang here, pai seh hor this time limpei got do homework
and i got read up on Patriot missiles so u can't find my mistakes ^^
in short, the PAC II explodes at the closest point of contact and uses the base control radar , using debris from the explosion to "knock out missile" and it is cheaper . PAC-II are only available in 4(s) in the launcher .
in short, PAC III , has its own radar.. explodes by hitting directly against enemy missiles , and it is more expensive..it is available in 16(s) in a launcher
and it is better..travels at Mach 5 and requires exact computer precision power
Taiwan is currently deploying the Patriot missile batteries..
and it is touted as one of the most advanced anti-air defenses
and it is also computer controlled and computer does the shooting,
last year..computer problems caused a friendly kill of a british tornado by a patriot.
China has not made any significant progress or any R&D with regards to anti missile missile..
China : whats the point of developing a technology which your enemy can counter? missiles ..and anti missiles..haiz ..
USA : i bet that china will Lose..
Sun Zi said once that motivation is very important...for taiwanese
its for thier right to vote and for democracy..and their right to live
alot of taiwanese ive met on the internet says they want freedom and no tight control...communism to them is like putting them in a jail
whereelse CN's troops motivation would be controlling another province
and subjecting it to communism politics..and absorbing pple's economy and military..and gaining access to the pacific..and even out american's presense..in the pacific..
If TW kana taken over..and even if US doesn't help out..
i can still foresee a war..coz USA 's submarines and 7th fleet always train on pacific one..last time heard of the USA submarine accidentally bang japanese trawler??
thier ships and subs go all around the pacific..definitely more confrontations
and if CN lose..also bad..coz America might occupy China..
China..might become dong ya bing fu again..feel sad for them if they decides to fight before 2008 =)
Anyway what makes them think that 1970+ Soviet upgraded technology gonna win the raptor..??Even the 1st generation air superiority fighter
F-15 has 100% superiority over enemy and 0 combat losses..
despite so many confrontations between F-15 and soviet warplanes..
F-22 is touted as the plane...much tougher den F-15..The only option to eliminate CBGs in 1 group is nuclear strike , which can give a 10 mile destruction radius..but if ur nuclear missile by that time cfm kana shot down =D -
last year..computer problems caused a friendly kill of a british tornado by a patriot.
patriot missle is really patriotic, it a british not american, so patriot shoot it down. -
Sorry to get you guys off topic . I was just thinking , didn't the Taiwanese government take note of what's happening ? . China's economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the world . Taiwan can just say , " We want to be independent " and i bet you all my money that China will not wage a war IF the Chinese President knows whats good for his people . A war would wreck China's hope of becoming a 1st world country and to have a strong economy . We all know that China has the potential of developing even more than Singapore in the future . A war will chase away investors for a long time and they would consider other better countries to invest in e.g. ( India) . Think about it . Cos i doubt it will happen . Just my 2cents.
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A patriot system did lock onto an American plane in OIF. Think it was an F-16. If i am not wrong, the pilot bombed itOriginally posted by wwff:last year..computer problems caused a friendly kill of a british tornado by a patriot.
patriot missle is really patriotic, it a british not american, so patriot shoot it down.
If we are talking about defending against attacks against a CV, why bring in patriots? Standard missiles are doing the job. -
Goliath was defeated by David 'cos he was too cocky & laughed at the tiny David. China has been damn arrogant of late. Their govt has been boasting about their "military might" and the ability to overrun Taiwan within days. Those of you with cable TV will notice a Chinese documentary (think its on ch 50 or 52) with this smart alec grey-haired guy with specs talking about military stuff. There's another wanker who seems to think China's military is invincible from the way he talks.
Yes, China's military is impressive. But whether it can defeat the US is another story. And even IF it can defeat the US & it does succeed in invading Taiwan, so wat?
I'm not gonna repeat in full what I said in a previous thread, but the fact is that if China invades Taiwan, its gonna get slapped with sanctions left & right. Its gonna ostracise itself from the international community. And its booming economy is gonna be reduced to crap due to sanctions & all. If the Chinese leaders are prepared to risk all of that & sacrifice what they have achieved so far, then I say they are too shortsighted.
Its pretty obvious that every Chinese leader wants to have the distinction of being the one to reunite China. Imagine, his name will be carved in history. As president, Deng Xiaoping tried but failed. As president, Jiang Zemin tried but also failed. And now that he's the chairman of the central military commission, he's trying again. And that's why he's pushing for war & even said it will happen in 2006.
Often it is man's selfish ambitions that result in tragedy. In this case, its the Chinese leader's haste to reunite China & have his name carved in history that might result in tragedy. If they just maintain the status quo & stick to dialogue, there will be no war. But of course China will not just sit there 'cos that means their leaders will fail to reunite China & they will not get their names printed in history books as the great one who reunited China. -
IÂ’m not sure but I thought one of them is an expert naval strategist while the other is in amphibious warfare?Originally posted by fkh:China is said to be developing large missiles that is capable of crippling aircraft carriers.
Now, it appoints two top naval strategists who are well versed in Aircraft Carrier Warfare.
So if Sino-US war breaks out, can China defeat US carrier groups ? -
Sigh, not getting into specifics, but the Americans own the air, the sea and space. No amphibuous assault can be successful without control of the air and the sea. As long as the Americans stay clear of the Chinese subs, there is no conceivable way the Chinese can threaten the Americans.
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it would be taking a betOriginally posted by Grampa Simpson:Sorry to get you guys off topic . I was just thinking , didn't the Taiwanese government take note of what's happening ? . China's economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the world . Taiwan can just say , " We want to be independent " and i bet you all my money that China will not wage a war IF the Chinese President knows whats good for his people . A war would wreck China's hope of becoming a 1st world country and to have a strong economy . We all know that China has the potential of developing even more than Singapore in the future . A war will chase away investors for a long time and they would consider other better countries to invest in e.g. ( India) . Think about it . Cos i doubt it will happen . Just my 2cents.
The P-3 Orions submarine hunters would do the job..
of destroying the damn submarines by launching those depth charges..
what makes u think that kilo-class subs which are 2nd hand from russia would do the job??
rofl....anyway..US has not been modernising it's submarines for quite awhile liao... -
who says the USN has not been modernising its subs?Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:it would be taking a bet
The P-3 Orions submarine hunters would do the job..
of destroying the damn submarines by launching those depth charges..
what makes u think that kilo-class subs which are 2nd hand from russia would do the job??
rofl....anyway..US has not been modernising it's submarines for quite awhile liao...
you're probably thinking about the Los Angeles and maybe Seawolf classes. but don't forget that the Seawolf is still by far the best SSN in the world, like the F/A-22 is by far the best fighter in the world. 2 more Seawolf-class, USS Jimmy Carter and USS Connecticut, were just commisioned, and later this year the USN will introduce yet another new class of SSN - the USS Virginia and her sisters. they also converted 4 Ohio-class SSBNs into modern SSGNs for spec ops support and armed with no less than 154 Tomahawks. if this isnt modernisation, i dunno what is...
btw, Patriot is a ground-based system, not used on ships. doesnt apply to carrier warfare.
cheers anyway! -
btw since we're on this thread already, maybe we could do some thinking and put ourselves in the shoes of a PLAN admiral and come up with ways to defeat a carrier strike group, and preferably sink the carrier.
what comes to my mind is supersonic AShM (brahmos? sunburn?) saturation attack timed to coincide with a massed submarine attack with Han-class SSNs and perhaps Kilo SSKs, if the CSG gets close enough.
any thots?
no nukes pls! -
I know this is out of the topic ..Originally posted by Grampa Simpson:Sorry to get you guys off topic . I was just thinking , didn't the Taiwanese government take note of what's happening ? . China's economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the world . Taiwan can just say , " We want to be independent " and i bet you all my money that China will not wage a war IF the Chinese President knows whats good for his people . A war would wreck China's hope of becoming a 1st world country and to have a strong economy . We all know that China has the potential of developing even more than Singapore in the future . A war will chase away investors for a long time and they would consider other better countries to invest in e.g. ( India) . Think about it . Cos i doubt it will happen . Just my 2cents.
Why u all guys always think that China will be the only country in shit if they chose the path to war?
I don't have the figures but we all know that almost all big MNCs are investing in China.
Should there really be a war then all the foreign investments will go down the drain.. we are taking about billions of dollars... and the damage is not limited to China but the whole world.
The MNCs needs China's market as much as China needs the MNC's money.
Any sanction would also mean the closing down of the world largest market.
Nobody is gonna benefit from it. -
It is not only about earning the distinction of being responsible in reuniting China but also the fear of being the China's "Qian Gu Zui Ren" who failed to stop Taiwan's separation from China.Originally posted by esesce:Goliath was defeated by David 'cos he was too cocky & laughed at the tiny David. China has been damn arrogant of late. Their govt has been boasting about their "military might" and the ability to overrun Taiwan within days. Those of you with cable TV will notice a Chinese documentary (think its on ch 50 or 52) with this smart alec grey-haired guy with specs talking about military stuff. There's another wanker who seems to think China's military is invincible from the way he talks.
Yes, China's military is impressive. But whether it can defeat the US is another story. And even IF it can defeat the US & it does succeed in invading Taiwan, so wat?
I'm not gonna repeat in full what I said in a previous thread, but the fact is that if China invades Taiwan, its gonna get slapped with sanctions left & right. Its gonna ostracise itself from the international community. And its booming economy is gonna be reduced to crap due to sanctions & all. If the Chinese leaders are prepared to risk all of that & sacrifice what they have achieved so far, then I say they are too shortsighted.
Its pretty obvious that every Chinese leader wants to have the distinction of being the one to reunite China. Imagine, his name will be carved in history. As president, Deng Xiaoping tried but failed. As president, Jiang Zemin tried but also failed. And now that he's the chairman of the central military commission, he's trying again. And that's why he's pushing for war & even said it will happen in 2006.
Often it is man's selfish ambitions that result in tragedy. In this case, its the Chinese leader's haste to reunite China & have his name carved in history that might result in tragedy. If they just maintain the status quo & stick to dialogue, there will be no war. But of course China will not just sit there 'cos that means their leaders will fail to reunite China & they will not get their names printed in history books as the great one who reunited China.
Any leader who failed to stop Taiwan's independence will be deem as unfit to rule China by their people.
Do not underestimate China's determination. -
The greatest irony is China's "determination" as you call it, could very well end up being the cause of their downfall. Believe you me, an all out war against Taiwan & the US will DEFINITELY have severe repercussions against China especially if China was the one who casts the first stone.
For all his strong words, I feel that Chen Shuibian is nothing more than a hot air blower. I seriously doubt he would declare independance. He's more like a forumer who posts flame baits on forums & China is like the forumer who laps it all up, gets their knickers in a tangle & comes out threatening to unleash hell.
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wow thx for the infor..coz all the info i get is all about the F/A-22 production which is scheduled for production in this yearOriginally posted by wd1:who says the USN has not been modernising its subs?
you're probably thinking about the Los Angeles and maybe Seawolf classes. but don't forget that the Seawolf is still by far the best SSN in the world, like the F/A-22 is by far the best fighter in the world. 2 more Seawolf-class, USS Jimmy Carter and USS Connecticut, were just commisioned, and later this year the USN will introduce yet another new class of SSN - the USS Virginia and her sisters. they also converted 4 Ohio-class SSBNs into modern SSGNs for spec ops support and armed with no less than 154 Tomahawks. if this isnt modernisation, i dunno what is...
btw, Patriot is a ground-based system, not used on ships. doesnt apply to carrier warfare.
cheers anyway!
with rgds to patriot..i was thinking that when China will be the one who strikes first attacks with a hell lotsa missiles , we're assuming that the US aircraft carrier will be parking at the base , and all the sailors are having fun
in some sorta pearl harbor ..therefore probably the patriot missiles will come into place =D -
Can you tell me more about the Chinese documentary on ch 50 or 52? I have SCV (Singapore Cable Vision) at home. I would like to watch the show. When and what time the documentary is aired. Do you know where can i direct download the entire Chinese documentary. Thanks! Your help greatly appreciated!Originally posted by esesce:Goliath was defeated by David 'cos he was too cocky & laughed at the tiny David. China has been damn arrogant of late. Their govt has been boasting about their "military might" and the ability to overrun Taiwan within days. Those of you with cable TV will notice a Chinese documentary (think its on ch 50 or 52) with this smart alec grey-haired guy with specs talking about military stuff. There's another wanker who seems to think China's military is invincible from the way he talks.
I don't know to you may be you think China is arrogant and like to boast. But to Mainland Chinese they think their country is being bullied. And that China is being too humble and tolerant. The Taiwanese military to them is a joke from the soldier to equipment. They are very confident that they will win the win. -
I think that will also depend greatly on strategy use by both side and the state of alertness. Just take Pearl Harbor for an example. American have more ships(unless you are counting the ship that are in state of operation, i take it as on ship on mission), better equipment(even radar) and even better intelligence, yet they are still caught with their pants down...
I think the two general strategy used by Chinese will either be the submarine attack or the missle attack(there might be others)... All this attacks will rely on surprise to have devastating effect on the Americans fleet... With the current American survelliance and detection ability, it might be hard to pull this off... But there is still plenty of examples in the world this can be done if it is well coordinated and planned, while the other is in state of low readiness...
Of course defeat might not mean sinking the ship( i suppose). Disabling or sidelinning them could be useful too.... Then this will probably need some more subtle option like political means -
use metalstorm cannon to kill the missiles
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Do the world needs China more or China needs the world more? Which is more important China or Taiwan?
I visited the China military forum. Some people don't understand what is the fuss about China invading Taiwan. Taiwan is just nothing at all while China is a future super power. They don't believe that the international community dare to sanctions China. China is just too important to the world!
How about Singapore. Do Singapore dare to sanction China economically if war break out? -
the fuss is that there is no point in invading Taiwan?Originally posted by want to know:Do the world needs China more or China needs the world more? Which is more important China or Taiwan?
I visited the China military forum. Some people don't understand what is the fuss about China invading Taiwan. Taiwan is just nothing at all while China is a future super power. They don't believe that the international community dare to sanctions China. China is just too important to the world!
How about Singapore. Do Singapore dare to sanction China economically if war break out?