Can China defeat US aircraft carrier groups ?
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A population of 4 millions trying impose a sanction on 1.1 billion people? U gotta be kidding...Originally posted by want to know:Do the world needs China more or China needs the world more? Which is more important China or Taiwan?
I visited the China military forum. Some people don't understand what is the fuss about China invading Taiwan. Taiwan is just nothing at all while China is a future super power. They don't believe that the international community dare to sanctions China. China is just too important to the world!
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IMHO the world needs China as much as China needs the world.
The global economy will get a great blow should the war breakout.
Either China win or lose the war it makes no difference for Spore. To Spore its a lose lose suitation.
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[b]How about Singapore. Do Singapore dare to sanction China economically if war break out?
It reminds me of an old chinese saying " a mantis trying to stop a chariot".. -
Rofl just the amount of F-16s itself dunno how many thousands produced also
at LEAST also better den the total PLA airforce combined
just look at the amount of F-4 Phantoms produced..over 5050 aircraft just for it.
HaHaHa PLAF will lose like sai..
and furthermore USAF never use ALL thier arsenal when dealing with IRAQ
with just 2 aircraft carrier...already so much power u can see on TV..
USA got bases all around the world coz of this reason..
HaHa 10 aircraft carriers BG spreaded out all over from HK to Japan..
i don't think that even China's pilots..planes upgraded with those advanced israeli technologies dare to fly over..
even if they dare to fly over taiwan..they risk being shot down by a 2 million dollar computer controlled patriot III missile which can shoot down a british GR-2 Tornado
They think tw military weak coz they watch too much bao gao ban zhang
Basically...i still believe US technology is supreme..why??
just compared soviet aircraft losses to us aircraft losses..
in recent years
somemore AIM-120 AMRAAM Beyond Visual Range missile..
vs AA-12 missile..umm
With rgds to TW..they also get stronger with the 4 Aegis Destroyers purchase...if TW get controlled..it is a major setback for democracy
as i would say cause freedom which is supressed. basically sux.
Anyway they can merge..but what i feel is that KMT should be given parliamentary powers as a province? or CCP should just pay them
$$ .
anyway , lemme ask..IF you were a fighter pilot would you take a J-10 aircraft and attack Taiwan or would you fly the F-16 Fighting Falcon aka Viper
anyway the falcon is the best name for F-16 i would say..
Why? Cause a Falcon always represent Freedom , looks at those majestic birds roaming around...
For me , i would seriously fly a plane for Taiwan air force..if i got a chance..
=D
simply because i like cyndi wang too much and 5566 and i like jay chou and jolin...=D ...not to let them be inside war-torn country..=D
Cause China will be the one who always attack first..i suppose?
Cause in my mind..people who attack first are the enemies .
And Btw CN itself doesn't pay the fighter pilots well..
i think their fighter pilots pay about same or lesser den our diploma holders -
You are right! I agree!Originally posted by Paladin:A population of 4 millions trying impose a sanction on 1.1 billion people? U gotta be kidding...
It reminds me of an old chinese saying " a mantis trying to stop a chariot".. -
the entire USAF doesnt have 5050 planes la wtf u toking.
and what patriot missile system, how many they have? so zai ah? -
Can we restrict:
i) name calling, your mothers spend a great deal of the 9mth carrying you to give you your name, no need to do extra effort.
ii) all you still at level 25 of Doom or Castle Wolfstein, please go to www.disney.com etc. we have enuff problems shifting the crap from the whatever without mention of 'plasmatic cannons' or 'super duper whatever', batteries not included. and
iii) leave out the politics/economics, soliders are not here to question why, just to do or die.
Sorry if offend anyone, but tough. -
JUST The Combined Total Production of F-4 Phantoms which is used for US and export uses = 5050+
you can check the internet..im not lying =D -
That is PRECISELY what bothers me about them. They think the world owes them. OK, maybe the western powers exploited them in the past, but hey, its they who were bu zheng qi in the first place. During the communist period, they fell behind not because of others, but because of themselves.Originally posted by want to know:I don't know to you may be you think China is arrogant and like to boast. But to Mainland Chinese they think their country is being bullied. And that China is being too humble and tolerant. The Taiwanese military to them is a joke from the soldier to equipment. They are very confident that they will win the win.
Now, China is stirring up the nationalistic feelings of its people. You shpuld look at them, they are blinded by it. I went to China the last time and got my hands on a few of their military journals. They were a total joke, talking as if the JSF and the Raptor could be defeated by their J-10s without much effort, and saying how their invincible combination of J-10s and SU-30MKKs will rip the ROKAF and USN to shreds. Yeah, right, as if they are not trying desperately to get their grubby fingers on the F-22's blueprints right now so that they can do what they do best - reverse engineering other people's work...
Combine the feeling that the world owes them something and their Nationalism, and you have a very dangerous concoction. Look at them now. They seem to be on a land grabbing spree. They want the Spratlys, they want the Himalayas, they got Tibet, they want Taiwan, they are now thinking that part of Korea was once theirs.... I tell you, for all they blame Japan about the atrocities committed during WW2, it is not inconceivable that one day China could follow the exact same footpath of Japan.
And personally, most of all, I detest their BOASTING. I mean, everybody knows that its a rising power, but it ain't no superpower yet, unlike a hyperpower like the US. So if they'll just quit trying to remind us (and the world) every chance they get that they are a superpower, maybe i'll like them a wee bit better. -
total production != USAF planesOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:JUST The Combined Total Production of F-4 Phantoms which is used for US and export uses = 5050+
you can check the internet..im not lying =D -
look...the PAC3 wont do shit becuz even if the use ships are in harbour it's the Standard missile that wld deal with the threat lah dick!(Sm-1's and SM-2's and soon SM-3).
Anyway the USAF has been facing budget cuts and production might take some time to move up again.....sadly in any war these days...time is not something that u can count on -
Originally posted by YourFather:
Zhun bo..from what i know even china's j-10 is very lacking in technology..
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[b]Now, China is stirring up the nationalistic feelings of its people. You shpuld look at them, they are blinded by it. I went to China the last time and got my hands on a few of their military journals. They were a total joke, talking as if the JSF and the Raptor could be defeated by their J-10s without much effort, and saying how their invincible combination of J-10s and SU-30MKKs will rip the ROKAF and USN to shreds. Yeah, right, as if they are not trying desperately to get their grubby fingers on the F-22's blueprints right now so that they can do what they do best - reverse engineering other people's work...
Combine the feeling that the world owes them something and their Nationalism, and you have a very dangerous concoction. Look at them now. They seem to be on a land grabbing spree. They want the Spratlys, they want the Himalayas, they got Tibet, they want Taiwan, they are now thinking that part of Korea was once theirs.... I tell you, for all they blame Japan about the atrocities committed during WW2, it is not inconceivable that one day China could follow the exact same footpath of Japan.
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heh ..why not US go purchase some J-10s thru some shady dealings..
den put it in a mock fire fight between F/A-22 and J-10
J-10 to them is thier NGF...rofl..
OMG..these China military journals are going to cost their pilots their lives
cause thier pilots gonna foolishly believe their J-10 is better then the F/A-22
ROFL!
HaHaHaHaHa....Americans are the one who invented the aircraft
and perfected it..100 years of Flight..by Wright Brothers..Americans were the one who mass produced fighter planes during the WWII
Anyway..China should be grateful to USA instead of creating aircraft to challenge them..after all they save thier asses during WWII with 2 nukes..
Anyway the Chinese created the idiom "En Jiang Chou Bao".. -
ya I guess people should also be grateful to US for sitting on their asses and making profits out of WWI when European countries are losing millions of men.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Anyway..China should be grateful to USA instead of creating aircraft to challenge them..after all they save thier asses during WWII with 2 nukes..
Anyway the Chinese created the idiom "En Jiang Chou Bao"..
or sitting on their asses again during WWII until they got owned by the Japs.
dont know Shit then STFU pls k thx?
and what Chinese Military Journals, I think you mistook unauthentic magazines for journals. of course real military journals wont talk Shit. -
Really! No joke. I read I also cannot believe it. I mean, the only phrase to describe it is xian lian gua chi. I read already I also feel ashamed as a chinese. Nobody blame them that their aircraft are not leading edge, that's perfectly understandable, but to act as if their aircraft is capable of taking on the best, (and sometimes when they know very well they have no chance of winning at all technologically, they try to downplay the importance of technology. Which begs the question of why they are always trying to steal the technological secrets of the americans...) that's pushing it too far...
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there are a lot of unauthentic publications in china that talks Shit, shouldnt take them seriously.Originally posted by YourFather:Really! No joke. I read I also cannot believe it. I mean, the only phrase to describe it is xian lian gua chi. I read already I also feel ashamed as a chinese. Nobody blame them that their aircraft are not leading edge, that's perfectly understandable, but to act as if their aircraft is capable of taking on the best, (and sometimes when they know very well they have no chance of winning at all technologically, they try to downplay the importance of technology. Which begs the question of why they are always trying to steal the technological secrets of the americans...) that's pushing it too far... -
Haha, go and see for yourself lor... I dare say that 9 out of 10 of their materials spew this kind of shit. This is just an example of their skewed views. It is broadly so for every kind of article they have there, not only for military stuff. I feel that they are deeply insecure, they have to glorify every small achievement as 'meeting world standards' or something like that.Originally posted by the.raven:ya I guess people should also be grateful to US for sitting on their asses and making profits out of WWI when European countries are losing millions of men.
or sitting on their asses again during WWII until they got owned by the Japs.
dont know Shit then STFU pls k thx?
and what Chinese Military Journals, I think you mistook unauthentic magazines for journals. of course real military journals wont talk Shit.
As for admonishing America for sitting on their ass, its always like that for them. They are damned if they do, and damned if they dont. Dont you think its really unfair for them? I mean, seriously, its easy to criticise them, and yes, their actions does warrant criticism in many instances, but if you 1) take into account the fact that no country does things without first considering its interests at stake, 2) That it's an inherently 'incoherent' country due to its political system where presidents change at a fast rate, 3) while it does not always carry out the values it preaches, at least it tries to adhere to it in the broad sense, and it at least has those values, then America is a pretty damned good country.
Take for example, the recent torture cases in Abu Gharaib. While many countries condemned America and pointed it out as a perfect example of American hypocrisy, I see it as the perfect example of why America should be the Superpower instead of any other country. While it was Americans who conducted such outrages on the prisoners, remember that it was also an AMERICAN who blew the whistle on the abuses, due to his sense of values. And remember that the American people condemned the episode as harshly as anybody else. This is what makes them great. And the Arabs who condemned the torture? They do it themselves, hidden from the view of the world.
But I digress. All in all, I just wanna say that I'd rather America retains its position as the pre-eminent power. For all its flaws, its a very benign power, considering the power that it wields. I shudder at the thought of China possessing such power. They will not be able to handle it responsibly, judging from their past and current behavior and attitudes. -
Originally posted by want to know:I don't know to you may be you think China is arrogant and like to boast. But to Mainland Chinese they think their country is being bullied. And that China is being too humble and tolerant. The Taiwanese military to them is a joke from the soldier to equipment. They are very confident that they will win the win.
Wah! You can read Chinese Military Journals. Your Chinese must be really very good to be able to understand the content. Thats weird! I thought Mainland Chinese are known to be very humble.Originally posted by YourFather:Now, China is stirring up the nationalistic feelings of its people. You shpuld look at them, they are blinded by it. I went to China the last time and got my hands on a few of their military journals. They were a total joke, talking as if the JSF and the Raptor could be defeated by their J-10s without much effort, and saying how their invincible combination of J-10s and SU-30MKKs will rip the ROKAF and USN to shreds. Yeah, right, as if they are not trying desperately to get their grubby fingers on the F-22's blueprints right now so that they can do what they do best - reverse engineering other people's work...
Do you and the posters here seriously think China is going to stop at Taiwan? If China manage to annex Taiwan. Will China stop? There is still Mongolia (Outer Mongolia). Lots of Chinese posters in Chinese Military Forum think Mongolia should be part of China. Mongolia is an independent country but Mongolia used to be part of China. They feel that it was the Russian who force China to recognise Mongolia independent.
Combine the feeling that the world owes them something and their Nationalism, and you have a very dangerous concoction. Look at them now. They seem to be on a land grabbing spree. They want the Spratlys, they want the Himalayas, they got Tibet, they want Taiwan, they are now thinking that part of Korea was once theirs.... I tell you, for all they blame Japan about the atrocities committed during WW2, it is not inconceivable that one day China could follow the exact same footpath of Japan.
I don't think its part of Korea but rather the entire Korea. Both North and South.
they are now thinking that part of Korea was once theirs.
You miss out Vietnam. I heard from them that Vietnam used to belong to China. -
IQ of genius: 180 and aboveOriginally posted by want to know:I don't think its part of Korea but rather the entire Korea. Both North and South.
You miss out Vietnam. I heard from them that Vietnam used to belong to China.
IQ of average person: 110
IQ of stupid people: below 100
IQ of want to know: 10 -
Originally posted by want to know:I don't think its part of Korea but rather the entire Korea. Both North and South.
You miss out Vietnam. I heard from them that Vietnam used to belong to China.
I admit that i am very stupid. If i say or do something wrong please tell me. If i offend you in any way please tell me also. If i make a mistake in my post please correct me.Originally posted by the.raven:IQ of genius: 180 and above
IQ of average person: 110
IQ of stupid people: below 100
IQ of want to know: 10
Thank You Very Much!
May be you disagree with what i post. I just post what i read from Pro-China forum. -
HEY! If he's wrong, all that shows is that he didn't do his research properly. That doesn't say anything about his IQ whatsoever. There is no need to get into insults here, just point out where you think he is wrong will do. Your statement does say a few things about you though.Originally posted by the.raven:IQ of genius: 180 and above
IQ of average person: 110
IQ of stupid people: below 100
IQ of want to know: 10
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Without going into Sun Tzu, Chinese miltary journals etc. my two cents worth.
Attacking a Carrier battle group is no walk in the park. Layered defence sophisticated 3D C3 interdiction out to 250+km, subs on picket patrol etc.
Case in point - Falklands war air attack on the UK ships was a whole series of lessons for all, most of the attacks were shot down or even deflected at last moment. Most of the hits were not from the sophisticated Exocet AM39 but from dumb bombs delivered almost by hand.
By the way Argentina has the older block 1 version see http://www.matra-def.fr/eexam390006.html
On the other hand the Royal Navy lacked AWACS capability to track the attacks which were masked by W Falklands mountains till too late.
One of the key reason HMS Invincible (the UK CV) was not hit, was bcos it was kept at safe distance from landing operations. It would be serious trouble if any major vessel were to be sunk (like the Belgrano). etc. etc.
see http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/DWF.htm for long read of the air war. Of course you could argue that Ops differ. Falklands was a naval action in support of amphibious landings (inshore), when any PRC attack on USN would be further offshore in prepration to prevent US to support Taiwan etc.
Since then things have inproved, systems like CIWS, redesign of ship design to reduce effect of castrophic damage.
PRC will suffer greatly before they either run dry or score a hit which will be another blow to US pride. Either way it will be up to to side with a greater threshold of pain which will prevail. -
"Thats weird! I thought Mainland Chinese are known to be very humble. "
Humble ! that was last time ! Now it is the "blow cannon" country. Now totall arrogant and out of control and lost in facts.
cannot help it, they read boasting article not support by facts. Everyday also read this type of junks, their people are lost in a make belief world that they are superior base on false facts.
They are now "blow cannon" kings and queens, china is superior ! -
Yep alot of things were learnt frm the Falklands war....especially in deployment and ship construction.However with all this new stealth ships coming out i hope the insides are still built properly unlike the HMS Shefield.(sic)Originally posted by baer:Without going into Sun Tzu, Chinese miltary journals etc. my two cents worth.
Attacking a Carrier battle group is no walk in the park. Layered defence sophisticated 3D C3 interdiction out to 250+km, subs on picket patrol etc.
Case in point - Falklands war air attack on the UK ships was a whole series of lessons for all, most of the attacks were shot down or even deflected at last moment. Most of the hits were not from the sophisticated Exocet AM39 but from dumb bombs delivered almost by hand.
By the way Argentina has the older block 1 version see http://www.matra-def.fr/eexam390006.html
On the other hand the Royal Navy lacked AWACS capability to track the attacks which were masked by W Falklands mountains till too late.
One of the key reason HMS Invincible (the UK CV) was not hit, was bcos it was kept at safe distance from landing operations. It would be serious trouble if any major vessel were to be sunk (like the Belgrano). etc. etc.
see http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/DWF.htm for long read of the air war. Of course you could argue that Ops differ. Falklands was a naval action in support of amphibious landings (inshore), when any PRC attack on USN would be further offshore in prepration to prevent US to support Taiwan etc.
Since then things have inproved, systems like CIWS, redesign of ship design to reduce effect of castrophic damage.
PRC will suffer greatly before they either run dry or score a hit which will be another blow to US pride. Either way it will be up to to side with a greater threshold of pain which will prevail. -
aiyo.....
china is china
taiwan is taiwan...
combine for what? -
Tell that to the fatous old man who runs the Central Military Commission in Beijing,I wish to see a bunch of kickass Spec Ops unit breaking down his doors and arresting him, and charging him for inciting a riot and remand him under our Criminal Provisions Law (Temporary).Haha, that scenario is really a joke.