whatever happened to Terrex AV81?
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Hi. Just wondering if anyone knows what happened to the Terrex from ST?
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Still in infancy.
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I thought its already ready for export and had been showcased in international defence shows before....
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yup, i tot its already way past development stage..Originally posted by tankee1981:I thought its already ready for export and had been showcased in international defence shows before....
will it be exported or used by SAF?
SImilarly, how abt the other stuff like the LWSPH and SRAMS? -
Its ready for sale. Only question is whether SAF will buy it. I have a strong feeling the AMX13-S1 replacement will be the Terrex equipped with a 105mm main tank gun. Its fast, manoueverable & air liftable. The IFV variant of the Terrex could eventually replace the aging M113 Ultra.
And a little OT, but I wonder if SAF will also get STK's Lightweight Self-propelled Howitzer or not. Its air liftable even by Chinook. -
The IFV variant of the Terrex could eventually replace the aging M113 Ultra.
There is still this debate about how much we should value the advantage of wheeled vehicles over the tracked cousins and vice versa. I dunno what the Army think but it will be interesting to see 1/2 of the M113 replace by the Bionix to give firesupport and transportation and the other 1/2 for limited firesupport and extreme mobility. I will also rather put my bets that the Terrex may in the future replace the AMX-30 as it have amphibous capability and greater mobility.And a little OT, but I wonder if SAF will also get STK's Lightweight Self-propelled Howitzer or not. Its air liftable even by Chinook.
The LWSPH will be great for the 21st Division but the greatest weak point is it's lack of armour protection. -
I remember reading about some form of co-operation with Turkey on their variant probably something along the lines of the FH2000.......
Why Primus and not modified or upgraded Paladins?
Why Bionix and not modified or upgraded M113s? 55,000 of them on the market? Some are steel chassis YPRs.....
Why AV81 with 105mm gun and not modified or lightened Leopard A4s?
Why not leverage on the peace dividend?
Singapore is a small country with little industrial base......till today we don't design and manufacture powertrains......
With no veto vote on the UN Security council, why would others want to buy from ST?
To set up the know how and deploy the manpower resources to this endeavour just for SAF's consumption.......
Is this really the most cost effective way to go? -
Why Primus and not modified or upgraded Paladins?
> Got something to do with the Isrealies. Saw the turret on the Merkava before.
Why Bionix and not modified or upgraded M113s? 55,000 of them on the market? Some are steel chassis YPRs.....
>M113 are made of aluminuim, which burns very well when hit by RPG or Eryx.
BX are all steel and have provisions for add on Armour. Basically, a new generation.
Why AV81 with 105mm gun and not modified or lightened Leopard A4s?
> A Terrex is a total different concept from a MBT. Alot of the neighbours bridges cannot take heavy loads. Also, the roads are relatively well developed, allowing rapid deployment. MBT's usually will go in later and hold ground.
Why not leverage on the peace dividend?
> Huh?
Singapore is a small country with little industrial base......till today we don't design and manufacture powertrains......
> Why re-invent the wheel. We kind of have enough money to buy companies that have done ground work like Timothy (Engineering) from Ireland, which did the Terrex system.
With no veto vote on the UN Security council, why would others want to buy from ST?
> Try telling that to ST, Even if we have the best system, Ang mohs wont buy from us major equipments. Imagine, the most powerful nation buying from a country that is covered by a RED DOT on a map.
>Was at For Knox for exhibition, spoke to Ameriacan tankys which evaluated the BX. They love it. It beat alot of competion through most of the test. Techincaly it even beat the Mowag Pirana. But, for political reasons, the Pirana was chosen.
>Wheeled vehciles get stuck on beach sand, and have a wide turn base, They knock down Traffic lights. -
Apparently the only reason why the Bionix lost out was 'cos the US wanted a wheeled vehicles & the Bionix was tracked. If we had sent the Terrex for evaluation, perhaps it might've been chosen.
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Hmm....we shall see who gets this SPH...haha....I wonder whether it is good enough...but anyway, if gotten it may replace the aging M71s. But then again, it's a presumption that we are getting this...Originally posted by esesce:Its ready for sale. Only question is whether SAF will buy it. I have a strong feeling the AMX13-S1 replacement will be the Terrex equipped with a 105mm main tank gun. Its fast, manoueverable & air liftable. The IFV variant of the Terrex could eventually replace the aging M113 Ultra.
And a little OT, but I wonder if SAF will also get STK's Lightweight Self-propelled Howitzer or not. Its air liftable even by Chinook.
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Originally posted by AkiraDen:
I can understand Singapore developing weapons systems that's not readily available on the 'open market' with no strings attached. Eg AMRAAM, Stand off missiles, EW stuffs, even CnC software and sensors.
Why Primus and not modified or upgraded Paladins?
> Got something to do with the Isrealies. Saw the turret on the Merkava before.
>>>??? Don't follow.
Why AV81 with 105mm gun and not modified or lightened Leopard A4s?
> A Terrex is a total different concept from a MBT. Alot of the neighbours bridges cannot take heavy loads. Also, the roads are relatively well developed, allowing rapid deployment. MBT's usually will go in later and hold ground.
>>> I dunno about this. Replacing the whole SM-1s with wheels? I can understand 7th Brigade having it BUT the ABGs?
Why not leverage on the peace dividend?
> Huh?
>>> With the cold war now gone. A lot of European and American forces are re-structuring. As a consequence many hardware basically are going for scrap.
Why not use them as baseline for SAF's needs instead of building from ground zero?
Singapore is a small country with little industrial base......till today we don't design and manufacture powertrains......
> Why re-invent the wheel. We kind of have enough money to buy companies that have done ground work like Timothy (Engineering) from Ireland, which did the Terrex system.
>>> My point exactly. Why re-invent the wheel? An APC/IFV is no different from another especially if they share the same powertrains! Isn't it more cost effective to modify an existing chassis? Eg Canadian (or is it Netherland) YPRs which are steel hulls.
>Was at For Knox for exhibition, spoke to Ameriacan tankys which evaluated the BX. They love it. It beat alot of competion through most of the test. Techincaly it even beat the Mowag Pirana. But, for political reasons, the Pirana was chosen.
>>> Again, that's my point. Most times countries buy military hardware not based on engineering decisions alone. In fact, most times I would think it's not that important - just get in the ball park.
>>> Politics count alot - SAF don't really contribute in UN or US sponsored operations in a big way to generate the 'gratitude' contracts to follow on.
>>> Also independent ILS - at least CV30s had their own scania engines etc.
>>> Quite frankly Bx can be the best in the world BUT it's unlikely anyone will buy and that's provided SAF allowed it in the first place.
>>> The big question then is how many Bx can SAF buy to justify the returns? Is it worth the resources and TIME to learn and then set up infra to build?
>>> Remember these resources needs to continue and have a happy ever after......who is going to feed the production line?
But APCs/IFVs.......or even Primus......or even ATTC.......very impressive for a small country but is it a smart move? Mega bucks for tax payers! All for deterrence.
Sigh. Easy to say this now. But how did we come to this and what is SAF stand going forward. -
I guess ......Singapore Buu leh!!