Russia Hostage Siege...your views?...
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Russian troops today stormed a school in southern Russia and secured the building where an armed gang, believed to be Chechen rebels, took hundreds of children, parents and teachers hostage on Wednesday. Interfax news agency said dozens of people had been killed in the collapse of the roof at the school where hostages were held. A British ITV News reporter said up to 100 bodies were seen in the school gymnasium....The Spetnaz(is it?) took the job as usual with fast action and DEADLY results...reminds me of the other case...at the opera house...all the terrorists were eliminated with dozens of civilian casualties...now the case is in the build up area of BESLAN, Russia...there are still some of the terrorist on run hiding in the neighbourhood...could the casualties be avoided?...like to hear your views...
God Bless the casualties souls... -
they won't run far the CT's will get them in the end
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Considering the large no. of hostages and area covered, the no. of casulties is relatively low. The assualt was well executed.
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well saidbut could have been better i thinkOriginally posted by paperchicken:Considering the large no. of hostages and area covered, the no. of casulties is relatively low. The assualt was well executed. -
tragedy
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2 words. sad, bad.
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putin and bush say: never say yes to terrorist. let them know they cant work it out this way.
dear terrorist say: we not hardworking enuff to make this 2 crab say yes to us. we must OT, try harder next time. keep trying
2 side also lao CB..in the end ,ppl are suffering. -
it was reported that in the stifling heat, hostages were escaping and the terrorists started to fire on the escaping children...
now... put yourself in the shoes of the security forces there.. when the terrorists start to fire on the escaping children, what do you do?
sadly, if the terrorists spend as much time and effort as they do in creating mayhem to building a society, they would EARN their independence instead? -
Still over a hundred is dead just like the opera theatre incident. Guess most were killed by the bomb blast. Was it an intentional action or because of an accidental trigger. I guess everyone would like to know.
The Russian interior ministry would have a lot of accounting to do, especially for its hardline stance against the rebel(or terrorist). Most likely, the Russian people would question whether the strike is really preplanned or the Russian authority has done some inciting of the rebel
Just a worrying trend that groups of people are more willing to kidnapp and even kill non combatant, even children to force nation and government to adopt their view and demand. Even for an issue like French banning of headscarves, which I feel or believe can be resolved in a more peaceful manner, has been brought to the world due to the kidnapping of the 2 French journalist.
Wonder what will be our stand be in the troubling times -
I doubt anyone could have done better.
I have a feeling the french situation was a mistake.The iraqis most likely just kidnapped the whitemen.....thinking they were brit or american when they realised they were french and the french werent even in iraq they just came out with some crap ahaha
But this situation might piss the frenchies off enuf to send in the FF
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An interesting question which our descendants will definitely judge us by.Originally posted by Ritterkreuz:Still over a hundred is dead just like the opera theatre incident. Guess most were killed by the bomb blast. Was it an intentional action or because of an accidental trigger. I guess everyone would like to know.
The Russian interior ministry would have a lot of accounting to do, especially for its hardline stance against the rebel(or terrorist). Most likely, the Russian people would question whether the strike is really preplanned or the Russian authority has done some inciting of the rebel
Just a worrying trend that groups of people are more willing to kidnapp and even kill non combatant, even children to force nation and government to adopt their view and demand. Even for an issue like French banning of headscarves, which I feel or believe can be resolved in a more peaceful manner, has been brought to the world due to the kidnapping of the 2 French journalist.
Wonder what will be our stand be in the troubling times -
There were rumours that the actual number of hostages inside were much higher, aprox 1500.The death toll of 200 is around 15%, which statistically speaking is quite good when you take into account the militants fanaticism and willingness to blow up everyone increasing day by day.The call had to be made.I hope those who participated in the operations can sleep at night knowing that 200 hostages died and yet there was not much else that could have been done.Special Ops units have that extra burden on their souls for being the ones who end lives and having to save them at the same time.
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It's a savage affair, & - still - forgive me for being naturally suspicious about any "official" account of what went down.
Other than that, I do think the Russians need to relook their whole strategy of internal security, so that standoffs like the school &, previously, theater sieges are nipped in the bud as much as possible. It's plainly a failure of counterinsurgency intelligence, period.
On paper, their post-KGB security organization appears mightily bureaucratic: 5 separate agencies, each with its own many directorates/departments & sub-directorates. Boris Yeltsin's "democractic" legacy had their security apparatus, along with countering terrorism, also checking ethnic separatism, labor unrest, drug trafficking, organized crime, counterintelligence against foreign spies &, supposedly the bigger priority of all, the President's political opponents. -
The Russian SpecOps unit involved in the raid is from the FSB's Alpha unit. They are very well trained in anti-terrorist works, from a Russian point of view. Had it been for the military's Spetnaz, the result would probably be much different as seen in their past actions. Spetnaz are far more fast & brutal then any other SpecOps. They don't believe in givng the enemy any chances or any worry for colleteral damages.
During their time in Afghanistan, a Russian diplomat was captured by the Taliburn who demanded the release of their fighters. Spetnaz reply by kinapping the child of the leader of the kinappers & telling them that if the taliburn does not return the diplomat unharm, they would start slicing the child part by part for each day that goes by. Of course, the diplomat was immediately released.
The russian internal security is weak because everyone is underpaid, so they just go through they job without seriousness. Russian intelligent services are trying to remodel themselve to look less KGB & more like CIA but they chose to be like the pre-911 CIA. -
No one knows what really happened lah. One version is that explosives strapped to the wall came lose & went off. Another is that 2 female terrorists blew themselves up.
All I can say is that if these idiots think that doing things like this will make ppl pity them, they can think again.
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These Chechen terrorists sure are a motivated lot.
Probably not too different from the communist guerrillas in the 60s?
BUT equipped with modern compact and deadlier weapons.
This is the real war TODAY!
It's "BACK TO THE FUTURE" again.
R we ready? -
Aiyah the Singapore president should have just boasted to Russia that we have better seurity.
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some questions:
if ever the terrorists win and get their independence, how would the people face this hard fact?
"How did your state win independence? "
"Oh, we killed a bunch of children and blew up a few schools.."
would their people be able to hold up their heads?
how would they react if another country decides to use their schools and children as cannon fodder for their own twisted ends?
perhaps these questions are pointless..
they don't matter much to the children and parents of those killed -
Being in the UK, I saw the news almost live a few days ago. I also saw the latest news last night. The death toll is now 300+ with another 70+ injured badly. Quite a lot are adults, either teachers, parents or soldiers.
From the news analysis, it appears that the Russian force committed the following errors:-
1) Security cordon around the school was lax
2) Not sure which terrorist to negotiate with
3) Wrong assessment of the terrorist intent (their intent is actually to committ suicide in any case and not to bargain)
4) Immediate assault plan was not present or did not come in time (usually in a hostage situation, the rescuers would have improvised a immediate assault plan like our SAF IA drill. To take care of unforeseen events like the sudden detonation of explosives and no-warning killing of hostages.
Major boo-boo by the Russians. Of course, their defence would be that the hostage group was very large and the school compound is quite big. From the news photos, it looked slightly bigger than a Junior College in Singapore. -
I hate to say these but if this incident happened back in the days of the USSR, the safety of the hostages would've meant nothing to the KGB. Instead, they would focus on the meaning of anti-terrorism. And then the KGB would probably settle any complain by saying that the hostages had died for the fatherland & that the hostages would be consider heros.
So, personally, I'm not surprise by the current result of their unprofessional handling of both this incident & the earlier theater incident. -
i would hate to say this...but in the days of the USSR this wont even happen....why? if they had rebelled in they're state.....russia would just flatten the damn placeOriginally posted by John Ching:I hate to say these but if this incident happened back in the days of the USSR, the safety of the hostages would've meant nothing to the KGB. Instead, they would focus on the meaning of anti-terrorism. And then the KGB would probably settle any complain by saying that the hostages had died for the fatherland & that the hostages would be consider heros.
So, personally, I'm not surprise by the current result of their unprofessional handling of both this incident & the earlier theater incident. -
I was in Netherlands when I catched this news.
According to CNN, there were around 20 over militants and most of them were either killed or captured. Some of them were of Arab origin.......
The news said that the soldiers were sending in the food and drinks for the hostages. The militants were using the hostages as a human shield. Just then, the hostages panic and started running for safety, the militant starts shooting and all hell break loose.
The authority then was taken aback by this sudden development and have no choice but to take immediate actions.. The Russian Special force than proceeded to blow a hole by the side of the Gym but the militant has booby trapped the gym ceiling with explosive. Upon detonation, part of the ceiling collapsed and crashed down on the hostages in the gym. A video man from CNN also managed to captured some video of bodies being buried under rubbles and charred beyong recognition.
While that fight were going on, hostages were running out of the building....
Saw image of the Russian Special forces firing at the window while urging hostages to run out and the fireman trying to stop the flame.
Last confirmed(at Netherlands on 5th Sept 2004), causaulity were 322 dead with 700 wounded. Some of the dead are no older than 5 yo......
It is a sad day for the Russians......... -
sad..
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A case in switzerland a decade or so ago. The hostages held in a opera theatre died ...cos the special task unit deploy a "rescue" plan which used a lethal gas .....Most of the hostages never wake up from the coma and died.
The RUSSIAN government should be held accountable. ESPECIALLY THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE RULER...IN THIS CASE President Putin -
i think the problem lies with Russia's special forces ie: the Spetsnaz/FSB "Alfa" units. they are simply not well trained in CT and CQB skills thats why they have very"wacky" ideas like using gas or take out the roof to save the hostages. i am not a por but i think situations like this calls for patience and detailed planning