Another navy accident !
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Whoever's fault it may be it is very embarrassing that our Navy ships keep being rammed by commercial shipping.
I know it hurts to say something like this but this is unacceptable, 2 accidents in 2 years, both being rammed by civilian ships.
I do think that a Board of Inquiry is needed and if the RSS captain is found to be KAYU then better to quickly get rid of all these incompetent officers.
The first accident where some of our personnel died is damn embarrassing. The RSS ship was one of our latest craft and it got rammed by commercial shipping while most of the crews are sleeping. How to fight in a real war?
I think the RSS captain on the first incident should definitely be found guilty and punished. If nothing else to make an example of how vigilant all these idiots should be and how seriously SAF treat this. Even if it's the other people's fault it is the captain's job to ALWAYS ensure the safety of his ship and his crew. So even if someone in the wrong ram his ship this captain is guilty for putting his warship and crew in a vulnerable position.
In the second incident, the captain should've taken DEFENSIVE action or AT THE VERY LEAST evasive action when a ship approaches at speed and then "overtook" it.
These are RSS navy warships for fcuk sake, why act like gentle rabbits? Kena "overtaken" at sea!
Lau kui man.
Any ship that approaches RSS ships at speeds or at a direction or proximity deemed inappropriate must be considered hostile and the offender given very stern warnings. What if it is a boat commandeered by terrorists or pirates?
RSS ships should have a policy of firing warning shots with their cannons at ship that approach so dangerously close without asking for permission.
In the case of the first accident if the RSS crew knew a civiliann ship was coming at them and no time to get out of the way, then they must fire a warning shot at the approaching craft and quickly followed by a shoot-to-kill policy if the offending craft does not respond.
Our ships and our crew's lives must be the foremost consideration of the captain and he must take aggressive action if necessary to protect them.
Clearly in both cases the RSS ship's captain and crew either KAYU or think everything will be alright so they just relak one corner. -
RSN's ships no need terrorist attack..what the hell do they give such a giant ball on the top of the ship which does nothing..
Oto melera gun is better off being jammed.
The Mistral missiles are better off unarmed. -
Re: Oxymoron.
Don't assume you know the actual processes behind the electronic components of a warship.
Of courses there is no need to use the 76 or the Mistrals to combat your terrorist sampans. Why waste money when you can easy deal with it using .5 cal rounds or even 7.62?
tvdog, I'll have to disagree on that aspect of protecting the ship at all costs. Though it may be a legitimate measure, it would be unwise to carry out such a course of action. It undermines the confidence of commercial shipping through our waters and our economy will suffer if these shipping companies decide to reroute to other shipping lines where the navy ships don't fire on anyone that stray too close. Such a scenario does not bode well for a nation that relies heavily on trade. -
well according to the report the cargo ship was coming alongside the RNS ship.For whatever reason.Anyway like i've mentioned before....these are big ships....not very easy to turn around.That the RSN ship only have some scratches meant that quite alot of evasive action was undertakenOriginally posted by tvdog:Whoever's fault it may be it is very embarrassing that our Navy ships keep being rammed by commercial shipping.
I know it hurts to say something like this but this is unacceptable, 2 accidents in 2 years, both being rammed by civilian ships.
I do think that a Board of Inquiry is needed and if the RSS captain is found to be KAYU then better to quickly get rid of all these incompetent officers.
The first accident where some of our personnel died is damn embarrassing. The RSS ship was one of our latest craft and it got rammed by commercial shipping while most of the crews are sleeping. How to fight in a real war?
I think the RSS captain on the first incident should definitely be found guilty and punished. If nothing else to make an example of how vigilant all these idiots should be and how seriously SAF treat this. Even if it's the other people's fault it is the captain's job to ALWAYS ensure the safety of his ship and his crew. So even if someone in the wrong ram his ship this captain is guilty for putting his warship and crew in a vulnerable position.
In the second incident, the captain should've taken DEFENSIVE action or AT THE VERY LEAST evasive action when a ship approaches at speed and then "overtook" it.
These are RSS navy warships for fcuk sake, why act like gentle rabbits? Kena "overtaken" at sea!
Lau kui man.
Any ship that approaches RSS ships at speeds or at a direction or proximity deemed inappropriate must be considered hostile and the offender given very stern warnings. What if it is a boat commandeered by terrorists or pirates?
RSS ships should have a policy of firing warning shots with their cannons at ship that approach so dangerously close without asking for permission.
In the case of the first accident if the RSS crew knew a civiliann ship was coming at them and no time to get out of the way, then they must fire a warning shot at the approaching craft and quickly followed by a shoot-to-kill policy if the offending craft does not respond.
Our ships and our crew's lives must be the foremost consideration of the captain and he must take aggressive action if necessary to protect them.
Clearly in both cases the RSS ship's captain and crew either KAYU or think everything will be alright so they just relak one corner.
And like some 1 said.....we cant just open fire on any ship around that strays to close.Use your common sense -
Re: Luftwaffe (MESSERSCHMITT)
Huh, terrorists are getting smarter and smarter.
who knows?they might take a old indo submarine and ram onto our RSN ship
since RSN ship doesn't have a radar..that can detect tankers..
too small to be invisible.. -
SBSK, stop flaunting your limited german vocabulary...you're being very immature here
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SBSK, grow up boy !
If you carry on, we will take it that you been gang raped by a group of gay german tourists, backside still sore. That why you cannot think properly, and are against anything that even remotely sound german. -
re: Red Riding Hood & a wolf that read stories
re: Sg nemo
LOLLOL
im laughing hard -
Yes, I agree it is too drastic to fire warning shots on ships that behave in an intentionally or unintentionally hostile manner.
Clearly, RSN ships have been behaving a little too polite. They must have some kind of sea lane Courtesy Campaign or something. Our Navy's motto must be something like "Always Give Way".
But these are our warships, and I hope they start behaving like one and take a more aggressive approach towards commercial shipping when they behave in a way that endangers others. -
To idwar:
Wah lau ehh, what does a ship collision in Sg's waters have to do with malaysia. So whats your point?
To Sibeisiasuay:
1.You obviously got something against the malaysians. When relations are good, you flame them, when relations are bad, you flame them. Then what do you want? War izzit? You better stop playing your red alert games and start studying.
2. Nah beh I don't tolerate your senseless flaming against another forumite. Only have one thing to say: Grow up
3. Tamade, why the Fark am i replying to these two idiots. It would be so much easier to close it. -
yeah..its kinda ironic that RSN's motto is "nothing comes close" in light of these two incidents...Originally posted by tvdog:Yes, I agree it is too drastic to fire warning shots on ships that behave in an intentionally or unintentionally hostile manner.
Clearly, RSN ships have been behaving a little too polite. They must have some kind of sea lane Courtesy Campaign or something. Our Navy's motto must be something like "Always Give Way".
But these are our warships, and I hope they start behaving like one and take a more aggressive approach towards commercial shipping when they behave in a way that endangers others.
SBSK, i'm glad you're having fun. cheap thrill -
My point is this :
The accident site is seen as Malaysian waters by the Malaysians. So when a foreign Sg warship crashes there, it becomes a subject of investigation by the Malaysians. ie " what are you doing in my waters? Brudder,Why you anyhow drive in MY sea lane?"
So what if Spore says it is Singapore waters? Until the World Court decides, Malaysia will treat the zone as Malaysian territory. And if investigations show any ship is at fault, then Malaysian Court must take action.
If Malaysia does not do this, then the World Court will ask Malaysia: Why is it you did not take action if you feel this happened in your territory. Maybe you not interested?
So like that lah- brudder idwar has to come out to educate the self centred, egoistic Singaporeans ................. -
Thank you, you have made your point very clear to me and it is apparent that you have no understanding of International Laws.Originally posted by idwar:My point is this :
The accident site is seen as Malaysian waters by the Malaysians. So when a foreign Sg warship crashes there, it becomes a subject of investigation by the Malaysians. ie " what are you doing in my waters? Brudder,Why you anyhow drive in MY sea lane?"
So what if Spore says it is Singapore waters? Until the World Court decides, Malaysia will treat the zone as Malaysian territory. And if investigations show any ship is at fault, then Malaysian Court must take action.
If Malaysia does not do this, then the World Court will ask Malaysia: Why is it you did not take action if you feel this happened in your territory. Maybe you not interested?
So like that lah- brudder idwar has to come out to educate the self centred, egoistic Singaporeans .................
To give you some respect, im waiting for the Malaysian court to do something and see what they are capable of doing. -
so does pedra branca belong to sg or malaysia?
if pedra branca gives to malaysia..how will MINDEF and SAF react?? -
Pedra Blanka or Pulau Batu Putih originally belonged to the Sultan of Johore.
About 150 years ago, many ships crashed in that area- something like Burmuda triangle- so the Chamber of Commerce requested that a lighthouse be built.
The sultan was approached for help, and so as a good brudder, he allowed the Chamber of commerce to build a llighthouse to benefit every one. Since then, Singapore had administered the island......... but there was no title deed given to Singapore...... -
Save that for the court hearings.Originally posted by idwar:Pedra Blanka or Pulau Batu Putih originally belonged to the Sultan of Johore.
About 150 years ago, many ships crashed in that area- something like Burmuda triangle- so the Chamber of Commerce requested that a lighthouse be built.
The sultan was approached for help, and so as a good brudder, he allowed the Chamber of commerce to build a llighthouse to benefit every one. Since then, Singapore had administered the island......... but there was no title deed given to Singapore......
Be mindful that this is sgmilitary, any political grief you want to address, kindly go to the politics forum within sgforum or i will recommend you GW forum for which i bet you will enjoy yourself.
Thank you my northern friend for sharing your views on our island. -
unfortunately this incident has nothing to do with pedra blanca. It is 40 km east of singapore, well within singapore's territorial waters. Two, i agree with you that singaporeans are egoistic, but you have no rights to produce flame baits here. What makes you different from us if that is the case. So relac lh brudder, we are here to chat and relax, not fight over politics. Leave that to politicians.Originally posted by idwar:Pedra Blanka or Pulau Batu Putih originally belonged to the Sultan of Johore.
About 150 years ago, many ships crashed in that area- something like Burmuda triangle- so the Chamber of Commerce requested that a lighthouse be built.
The sultan was approached for help, and so as a good brudder, he allowed the Chamber of commerce to build a llighthouse to benefit every one. Since then, Singapore had administered the island......... but there was no title deed given to Singapore...... -
if memory serves me well... the current sultanate of johor was appointed by the british crown.....Originally posted by idwar:Pedra Blanka or Pulau Batu Putih originally belonged to the Sultan of Johore.
About 150 years ago, many ships crashed in that area- something like Burmuda triangle- so the Chamber of Commerce requested that a lighthouse be built.
The sultan was approached for help, and so as a good brudder, he allowed the Chamber of commerce to build a llighthouse to benefit every one. Since then, Singapore had administered the island......... but there was no title deed given to Singapore......
clearly... it shows beyond a doubt who is the true ruler, owner and administrator of johor at that time....
in fact many malay friends of mine do not accept them as "true" sultan since they do not bore any royal blood to begin with.... -
Yes, you are right ,sir.
Johor sultan was not of royal blood. In fact The original sultan was actually the Termaggong guy who accompanied the Sultan to sell Singapore to the British. He then turned to piracy in the Johor Straits. To control him, the British gave him the Sultan of Johor title. In return, he stopped his followers from piracy.
Legend has it that the pirate loot was buried.......probably in the part of your island commonly known as AREA D............... -
By the way, 40 km east of Singapore is just about at the location of the disputed island of Pulau Batu Putih/ pedra Blanka. This island is about 10 km from the Johor coast.
Malaysia did not take this issue up until a few yews ago, when the RSN /Spore Marine police started to chase away the poor malay fishermen from their traditional fishing grounds around the island..............
Had the Singapore navy kept one eye closed and allowed the poor fishermen to carry out their livelihood, I don't think the issue would have been taken up by the local Johor politicians........ -
How far is Christmas Island from Singapore as compare to Australia?Originally posted by idwar:By the way, 40 km east of Singapore is just about at the location of the disputed island of Pulau Batu Putih/ pedra Blanka. This island is about 10 km from the Johor coast. -
you should get your facts right boy......Originally posted by idwar:By the way, 40 km east of Singapore is just about at the location of the disputed island of Pulau Batu Putih/ pedra Blanka. This island is about 10 km from the Johor coast.
Malaysia did not take this issue up until a few yews ago, when the RSN /Spore Marine police started to chase away the poor malay fishermen from their traditional fishing grounds around the island..............
Had the Singapore navy kept one eye closed and allowed the poor fishermen to carry out their livelihood, I don't think the issue would have been taken up by the local Johor politicians........
Pedra Branca
Q. What is all this fuss by Malaysia over Pedra Branca?
A. The dispute arose in 1979, when Malaysia for the first time published a new map which claimed the island. Prior to that, Singapore had occupied and exercised full sovereignty over the island for more than 150 years since the 1840s without any protest from Malaysia. Previous Malaysian maps, even as late as 1974, showed Pedra Branca as belonging to Singapore.
Following the recent International Court of Justice's decision in favour of Malaysia over Indonesia regarding the disputed islands of Sipadan and Ligitan, Malaysia began to accuse Singapore of delay over the Pedra Branca issue. Malaysia also falsely accused Singapore of building new structures on Pedra Branca even though no new structures have been built there for the last 10 years.
Q. Has Singapore delayed putting the dispute on Pedra Branca before the International Court of Justice (ICJ)?
A. No. In fact, as early as 1989, it was Singapore which first proposed to resolve Malaysia's claim through the ICJ process. Malaysia agreed to this in 1994 and both countries settled on the text of a Special Agreement to refer Malaysia's claim to the ICJ in 1998. But Malaysia made no serious attempt to pursue the signing and ratification of the Special Agreement to start the process until recently.
Q. Why is Singapore chasing away Malaysian vessels from Pedra Branca? Does Malaysia not have a right to patrol at Pedra Branca before the International Court of Justice's ruling?
A. Singapore has exercised exclusive control and sovereignty of Pedra Branca since the 1840s. This is the status quo. Until Malaysia's claim is decided by the ICJ, the status quo must remain.
In fact, Malaysia took this same position against Indonesian naval intrusions over the Sipadan and Ligitan dispute. In that case, Malaysia took the position that as they were in possession of the islands, the status quo should prevail. But Malaysia now conveniently disregards the status quo in the case of Pedra Branca by intruding into Singapore waters. -
uhhh........ what i am really trying to say is... if royal blood is your beef and basis for claim over pedra branca....Originally posted by idwar:Yes, you are right ,sir.
Johor sultan was not of royal blood. In fact The original sultan was actually the Termaggong guy who accompanied the Sultan to sell Singapore to the British. He then turned to piracy in the Johor Straits. To control him, the British gave him the Sultan of Johor title. In return, he stopped his followers from piracy.
Legend has it that the pirate loot was buried.......probably in the part of your island commonly known as AREA D...............
then singapore should own johor since the true johor royal blood descendents are actually singaporeans by nationality...... your johor sultan is a fake... a former pirate(?)... and thus have no legitimacy to sign johor into the federation of malaysia..... -
Maybe Indonesia has the stronger claim to Singapore and Johore.
The British bought over Singapore from a contender to the throne of the Johore-Rhio empire. To the Indons, this contender is a pretender to the throne and hence did not have the legitimacy to sell anything to the British.
That means Raffles illegally obtained Spore.........at least in the eyes of supporters of Greater-Indonesia, chief of whom was the father of Indonesia's current madam President.
One day, they will want to claim back Singapore and Johor, then perhaps SBSK will soon get his chance to shoot everyone.......... -
Moderators,
it is clear that the thread creator is here using this thread as a flame bait to sow a discord . I strongly urge our moderators to delete this thread. Sgforums is a peaceful forum whereby it is open to people of all nationalities but surely flames baits are never tolerated here. For the love of this forum, please take appropriate measures.
Thankyou.
Foxtrout8.