Tragedy in SAF
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Usually if in training a leg, arm ,thigh , non-vital part of your body is shot, it is not usually fatal. It only become fatal if the victim lost too much blood, in normal if they are able to put pressure on it to keep you from losing too much blood and rush you to a hospital on time, you will survive.Originally posted by want to know:Has anybody in the SAF survive a gun shot wound before? Is it possible to stay alive and survive during battle if you are shot in the leg, arm, thigh, non vital part of your body? I was reading the message and i thought does that mean if you are shot it is the end?
In fact take a look at the modern iraq war, a lot of US soldiers are hit, but due to advance in medicine, they did not lost their life. -
yep , got screw by a few default fuse and timer explosive device before, but was lucky that everytime got away with just cover with dust, mud and some birds flying around the headOriginally posted by seachfun:Yes, this is the case of so call purchase the fuse from recommended US firm but they sub-contract it to China & resell it to SAF without going thru the quality procedure & the MMO also did the same thing so long got cert. it not my problem. At the end user like us .........
So 1 lesson learn, DONT ever think that US stuff is very big fuxk, they also provide shit to us all the time!
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Originally posted by martin_lim85:For a soldier that can fight but not allow to fight is also another tragic waste
Not fighting is the true art of war. -
The question should be quality control. Quality control is not base on obtaining the certificate from the supplier & proclaim not my responsibility is tragic is happen.Originally posted by Johnston:Did you ever sit down and read the huge tome about the incident?
The gist of the commitee's finding was:
They themselves did not know it was subcontracted.
(It's been 6 months since i last read that)
Oops.
So if you , the Boss, gets sued because of your worker who bought shoddy goods, will you think it's fair for your company?
The company is still responsible if the good delivery to customer is faulty even thou he may not be the one who manufacture that particular part that causing the system break down. Eg. Car manufacture recall faulty car due to component faulty & the part is subcontract to other vendor.
By the way, did work with MMO or even G4 closely, they are suck, priority for decision must include how to cover assh! -
Getting shot and survive, not heard any directly (don't bother with "heard from eomeone who heard form someone else etc"). Sure there are many cases.Originally posted by want to know:Has anybody in the SAF survive a gun shot wound before? Is it possible to stay alive and survive during battle if you are shot in the leg, arm, thigh, non vital part of your body? I was reading the message and i thought does that mean if you are shot it is the end?
Heard of several sucide cases, 2nd Guards etc. no survivors
Grenade case in 1986, garabra like zebra clown who blew his hand up. BOI blamed faulty fuse, lost his right forearm (up to just before elbow), officer recieved scrapnel etc. -
Originally posted by Johnston:Being an Artillery ASA, there aren't too many gun shot wounds we hear of.
Of course you are able to stay alive if you get shot during battle.
Provided you staunch the bleeding, and get medical attention.
No when you are shot, it is not the end.
A simple cut on your wrist can make you bleed to death, why not a gunshot?
So the main problem is bleeding to death not the gunshot wound. Is there any procedure or any way to stop the bleeding? If a person is shot in the non vital part of his body but the bleeding is keep under control. How long would the person survive?Originally posted by storywolf:Usually if in training a leg, arm ,thigh , non-vital part of your body is shot, it is not usually fatal. It only become fatal if the victim lost too much blood, in normal if they are able to put pressure on it to keep you from losing too much blood and rush you to a hospital on time, you will survive.
In fact take a look at the modern iraq war, a lot of US soldiers are hit, but due to advance in medicine, they did lost their life.
You mean even if medicine is advance. A lot of soldier will still lost their life.Originally posted by storywolf:In fact take a look at the modern iraq war, a lot of US soldiers are hit, but due to advance in medicine, they did lost their life.
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So the main problem is bleeding to death not the gunshot wound. Is there any procedure or any way to stop the bleeding? If a person is shot in the non vital part of his body but the bleeding is keep under control. How long would the person survive?
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Sure.
There's a little something you've been using since Kindergarten.
It's called a plaster.
Barring that, you can always use your hand to hold the wound closed.
Or cloth? As long as you staunch the bleeding.
But really, that's why the First Aid Dressing is part of the SBO.
Not that i ever did see it being used.
The second part of your post, erm...
Im not a doctor. I can't tell you the exact answer.
A few days? Weeks?
or until you die of lead poisoning.
Are you really interested in gunshot wounds? If so i can dig up some info on it. -
Oh, i did read about a bugger who used his M16 to do a suicide attempt while on Guard. He's still around. In DB i should think. Why? The firing pin didn't hit *just right*Originally posted by baer:Getting shot and survive, not heard any directly (don't bother with "heard from eomeone who heard form someone else etc"). Sure there are many cases.
Heard of several sucide cases, 2nd Guards etc. no survivors
Grenade case in 1986, garabra like zebra clown who blew his hand up. BOI blamed faulty fuse, lost his right forearm (up to just before elbow), officer recieved scrapnel etc.
Guard Duty hence is known somewhat informally as "Suicide Watch/Deserter Alert".
Yap, i did also come across a 80's case when an explosive device went up inside a M113. The finding of the board: The soldier found/discovered/picked up a blind.
Oops. -
My family friend told me of an incident of this blur cock,who was cleaning his weapon out in the field.And left his friggin 5-piece rod in the barrel.When he fired,the weapon just blew up in his friggin face!!!What an ugly way to die.
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My family friend told me of an incident of this blur cock,who was cleaning his weapon out in the field.And left his friggin 5-piece rod in the barrel.When he fired,the weapon just blew up in his friggin face!!!What an ugly way to die.
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Which is why the "Agency that Investigates Incidents" is a very hush hush place, where visitors cant even bring their handphone in.
And why a lot of BOI are very classified, Need-To-Know only.
I remember, it's called GSI. General Safety Inspectorate. Located in Gombak Base, and a really quiet unit too. -
Just repeating what I wrote in any thread.
1. In the School of Artillery, the OCS batch before my ANCO course, an officer cadet stood between an M71 hooked on a MAN 7t truck. When the truck moved off, the gun ran over the cadet killing him.
2. During my ANCO course, an officer cadet in the course running concurrently had four fingers chopped off by a monkey ram. He was holding on to an iron picket while it was being rammed, and his hand was too high on the picket.
3. This happened a couple of metres from me during my ANCO course. A fellow trainee got his index finger in the way of an M71 breech block when it closed. His finger was chopped off. The trainer retrieved the finger but it could not be reattached.
These three incidents happened in my active unit. Luckily they did not turned into tragedies.
4. While returning from an exercise, an M71 hooked to a MAN truck in my battery deattached itself while travelling and slammed into the middle of a traffic junction.
5. While travelling to an NDP rehearsal, one of our 25pounders detached itself in the middle of a junction. It moved under its own momentum across the junction.
6. During a 155 life firing in Thailand, one of my rounds landed kilometres from the target zone and landed in a padi field. Luckily, no one was hurt, but unconfirmed report stated that a cow got in the way and was turned into hamburger patty. -
Thank you. You are very helpful.Originally posted by Johnston:So the main problem is bleeding to death not the gunshot wound. Is there any procedure or any way to stop the bleeding? If a person is shot in the non vital part of his body but the bleeding is keep under control. How long would the person survive?
--- Quote.
Sure.
There's a little something you've been using since Kindergarten.
It's called a plaster.
Barring that, you can always use your hand to hold the wound closed.
Or cloth? As long as you staunch the bleeding.
But really, that's why the First Aid Dressing is part of the SBO.
Not that i ever did see it being used.
The second part of your post, erm...
Im not a doctor. I can't tell you the exact answer.
A few days? Weeks?
or until you die of lead poisoning.
Are you really interested in gunshot wounds? If so i can dig up some info on it. -
Accident do happens where ever you are.
What do we learn from it is very crucial for our lessoned learned. How should we put in the check to prevent future accidents are equally essential. -
Not sure if anyone recalls this incident from OCS. A trainee cadet dropped his GMPG & it shot his mate in the back of the head. I'm not clear about the incident but from what I heard, the cadets were all playing a fool at that moment before the accident. Damn immature.
A gun shot victim could survivy a shot if (a) the shot did not damage major organs, (b) the bullet went clean through the victim without ricocheting, (c) the victim does not go into immediate shock & (d) the victim is sent to the nearest hospital in the shortest possible timing. Of course, immediate first aid should be done by stopping the flow of blood from the entry & exit wound. In the movies, they always block the entry wound only. -
A bullet go in the front, but at the back, there's a huge hole. When a bullet travels, it is rotating at a very high speed. When it hit the flesh, just imagine what it will do.Originally posted by want to know:Has anybody in the SAF survive a gun shot wound before? Is it possible to stay alive and survive during battle if you are shot in the leg, arm, thigh, non vital part of your body? I was reading the message and i thought does that mean if you are shot it is the end?
I think all NSmen knows this basic knowledge.
Well, if u are not shot in the vitals, and the main arteries are not severed, blood loss is not that severed, maybe you will live. -
We can say alot about deaths in the SAF, to "share" the knowledge and the "horrors".Originally posted by Ultra Magnus:A bullet go in the front, but at the back, there's a huge hole. When a bullet travels, it is rotating at a very high speed. When it hit the flesh, just imagine what it will do.
I think all NSmen knows this basic knowledge.
Well, if u are not shot in the vitals, and the main arteries are not severed, blood loss is not that severed, maybe you will live.
But if for a second, think about the mother who came to camp to see her son's dead body, how u feel?
Am I the only one who is pissed when ppl, esp the gals say, NS is a waste of time. Tell them to say that in front of the dead soldier's mother.
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Is that supposed to sound sarcastic.Originally posted by want to know:Thank you. You are very helpful.
Hmm.
Anyway, the study of gunshot wounds is properly termed "Wound Ballistics".
Below are a selection of sites you should go to.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm
http://www.defencejournal.com/april98/bulletwound.htm
I used to have a handy article around, but i canna find it now.
If you like, i do have an article about M16 vs AK47/74 wound characteristics. -
NSmen or NSF, or Regular?Originally posted by Ultra Magnus:I think all NSmen knows this basic knowledge.
Well, if u are not shot in the vitals, and the main arteries are not severed, blood loss is not that severed, maybe you will live.
During the entire length of my BMT we were never briefed on "effects of 5.56mm ball, on striking flesh". Other than the always drilled in , "7 years of DB" for any ammo related incidents.
I shall have to comb my material for gunshot wound survivors, but now i can quote "We Were Soldiers". In it, there is an instance of an soldier having sustained a head wound, but still able to fight. -
*salute!!*Originally posted by dragonstar:Just repeating what I wrote in any thread.
1. In the School of Artillery, the OCS batch before my ANCO course, an officer cadet stood between an M71 hooked on a MAN 7t truck. When the truck moved off, the gun ran over the cadet killing him.
6. During a 155 life firing in Thailand, one of my rounds landed kilometres from the target zone and landed in a padi field. Luckily, no one was hurt, but unconfirmed report stated that a cow got in the way and was turned into hamburger patty.
You must be a lao chiao or an very senior warrant.
The M71 is now on perm display/storage, or at least last i saw them in Khatib.
I remember seeing photos of the first incident you mentioned (OCT). Those are black/white, and one photo even showed part of the head, with cerebral matter on the asphalt.
Even today, Artillery is still quoting the cattle incident. So was it one cow, or a herd of cows?
And to finish off, there was an Fh2K incident last year, in which an SGT's arm got mauled. Severely. He happened to be one of my BMT instructors. -
wah why so many case 1?
saf no safety first? -
shit happens...beside when you're in the army...this sort of things will happenOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:wah why so many case 1?
saf no safety first? -
GSI should be General Staff Inspectorate.But they are not the only unit doing BOI.There's a few more.Those in the know, well, you should roughly know.Originally posted by Johnston:My family friend told me of an incident of this blur cock,who was cleaning his weapon out in the field.And left his friggin 5-piece rod in the barrel.When he fired,the weapon just blew up in his friggin face!!!What an ugly way to die.
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Which is why the "Agency that Investigates Incidents" is a very hush hush place, where visitors cant even bring their handphone in.
And why a lot of BOI are very classified, Need-To-Know only.
I remember, it's called GSI. General Safety Inspectorate. Located in Gombak Base, and a really quiet unit too. -
*shrugs*Originally posted by LazerLordz:GSI should be General Staff Inspectorate.But they are not the only unit doing BOI.There's a few more.Those in the know, well, you should roughly know.
Im not active admin anymore, so it's all going out of my brain.
But suffice to say that GSI is one of the main agencies. -
I am very sorry if there is some misunderstanding. What i mean is thank you for taking the effort to answer to my reply and even offer to dig up information for me. Thanks!Originally posted by Johnston:Is that supposed to sound sarcastic. -
Hmm, shit happens.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:wah why so many case 1?
saf no safety first?
It's not really many.
Our "KIASU" policy has cut down the amt of accidents alot.