MALAYSIAN ARMED FORCES ORBAT JAN 2004
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If such a day does arrive, we will defend S'pore to the best of our ability. Simple as that. And it doesn't help to have ppl like you around questioning the ability of the SAF. Ppl like you who have not even served one hour of NS I might add.
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I will also help defending Sillypore by putting my finger on the launch button of 'TOM******' missile,ready to fire. -
i strongly doubt it's something like LST...Originally posted by storywolf:I mean the Malaysia CDF did say it correctly, just media did a wrong translation, and we have different perseptive as to "aircraft" carrier mean.
"The Malaysian Armed Forces wants to buy early-warning aircraft and a multi-role support ship to be used as a floating command centre. The aircraft he wants are equipped with an early-warning defence system and detection capabilities which are faster and more accurate than ground radar. The support ship, besides being a command centre, can also function as an aircraft carrier. "
The big clue was "support ship" . What he is saying is a he want something like our LSD ( which we use for support role) with landing pad for heli (aircraft). Or a more delicated supply ship which usually also have landpad. The aircraft he refer to is a helicopter which can be mounted with early warning radar to give further over the horizon coverage, thus in his words it does function as an aircraft carrier.
He already said "a multi role support ship"
it means 1..
it makes no sense for a country to just have 1 LST..with so much land to patrol
which carries helicopters only..
Even Singapore has 4 multi role support ship..
Note that he didn't say "Malaysia armed forces would like to have 4 Multi role support which can function as a aircraft carrier also"
He meant "1" as in "a"
So naturally for 1 specially built and designed ship..
you all would know it would have special capabilities and design..
so i believe the ship can carry fighter jets...
Actually he also meant the AWACs is also to be deployed together with the ship if im not wrong..
AWACS + Aircraft Carrier + Submarine patrol aircraft =Almost Tian Xia Wu Di..
provided if got good enough air cover -
I dun think they can have a carrier as they dun have the future - JSF
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They can always get harrier II or any russian/chinese variant of the VTOL fighter aircraft..
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You guys are really obssessed with carriers aren't you?
First of all, the M'sian CDF said SUPPORT ship. Now if they decided to use it as a mini carrier, you think they can just do so overnight? Obviously it takes time to modify the ship. And not forgetting, none of their current fighter jets can take off from a mini carrier. They have not made known any plans to get VTOL jets and even IF they do, its gonna take several years to shortlist, decide, buy, train their pilots & support staff, etc.
In other words, SHOULD they decide to convert their support ship to a mini-carrier, its gonna take several years for their carrrier capable jets to be ready. In other words, they'll have a carrier without fighter jets. Hmm, now that doesn't seem to make much sense does it? -
The russian do not have any operational VTOL fighter a/c at the moment, the Yak 36-38 VTOL a/cs were junk becos of poor range and payload and all have been retired.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:They can always get harrier II or any russian/chinese variant of the VTOL fighter aircraft..
The Yak-141 was a better VTOL a/c but was eventually cancelled without completion of the project due to and I quote " the Red Navy was acquiring real aircraft carriers and was obtaining carrier-based versions of the high-performance Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters, the Yak-41 was gradually eclipsed, and the entire program collapsed along with the fall of the Soviet Union. A projected two-seater, the "Yak-41UB", was never built. ".
Therefore the russian do not have any viable VTOL fighter a/c to offer at the moment.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avredvt.html
And I have not heard of any chinese made VTOL fighter!!! Could you provide the link!?!
AFAIK, the old viable VTOL fighter a/c at the moment is the Harrier( & all it's variant), all are waiting for F-35B STOVL a/c to replace the old horse.
So tell me what is the VTOL fighters that going to the MY's "small VTOL a/c carrier" ?
At the moment , MY's navy do not have sufficient support ship especially do not have any air defence FFG/DDG at all ( Leiku is not a AD FFG) to provide a viable air defence umbrella for the carrier group, they need at least 2 such ships, maybe another 2 more FFG, so they need to purchase another 3-4 expensive DDG/FFG on top of VTOL a/c carrier to have carrier group.
( the same mistake made by the Thai, even with sufficient budget to have their carrier out to the sea, it will still be a white elephant w/o sufficient cover during operation.)
Looking at small defence budget that MY has, they need to inflate their budget by at least 3-4 times before they could have a viable carrier group.
So are you still sure that MY is getting a/c carrier??? -
Whatever M'sia armed forces plans to buy, they can do so as long as the selling company is willing to accept payment by palm oil lah. Thats how they bought their Migs from Russia.
In any case, theres nothing to worry about. They may buy an equipement but it does not comes with spare parts, so they have to buy an extra identical equipement to use its parts for replacement. Thats why they spend so much.
Military toys are serious spending money, you may buy EWAC but you don't have the fundings to maintane the aircraft, so what happens after 5 years in service? -
The publisher did not produce any book on MAF, but they have one book on the Armed Forces of Indonesia. It's available in the National libraryOriginally posted by bcoy:In addition - there is supposed to be a book on the Malaysian Armed Forces, from the same series and publisher of the book - Defending the Lion City. Would appreciate if anyone knows when this book is going to be published (if ever). It should provide more infomation (just like the book from Tim Huxley) -
We discuss their Orbat will their MSD come and hunt us down?
Skully they have agreement with our MSD to help pinpoint and catch those big mouths. -
Thanks - I'm still hoping they do publish it. I already have the book on Indonesia.Originally posted by 84mmrr:The publisher did not produce any book on MAF, but they have one book on the Armed Forces of Indonesia. It's available in the National library -
Actually in an 2003 interview with ADJ, M'sia's Chief of Navy did say that the navy is interested in buying an amphibious ship which would carry 6-10 fixed wing aircrafts. So perhaps it would be an aircraft carrier after all, although it would have limited uses and not omnipotent.
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fyi, m'sian CDF referring to French DCN Mistral class LHD... have been offered to Msian Navy few years ago..but i think would take another 20-30 yrs for the outcome
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you mean this ?
The French called it BIP multipurpose carriers
http://frenchnavy.free.fr/ships/lhd/ntcd.htm -
First of all...the so call MAF ORBAT a bit dated.......read JANUARY 2004....and not OCT 2004.....so some stuffs like Rooivalks are not relevant anymore.Originally posted by observe:you mean this ?
The French called it BIP multipurpose carriers
http://frenchnavy.free.fr/ships/lhd/ntcd.htm
PM Abdullah went to France 8 weeks ago and met with among others DCN topbrass.LIMA and DSA were used by the French to "proposed" their BIP to the RMN.DCN already got a contract with RMN (Scorpene)......in short yes RMN do need a light carrier to support the RDF (with some of the batt are being earmarked as the "airborne marines").No fighters of course....just helos
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First of all...the so call MAF ORBAT a bit dated.......read JANUARY 2004....and not OCT 2004.....so some stuffs like Rooivalks are not relevant anymore.
No offense tiger,
PM Abdullah went to France 8 weeks ago and met with among others DCN topbrass.LIMA and DSA were used by the French to "proposed" their BIP to the RMN.DCN already got a contract with RMN (Scorpene)......in short yes RMN do need a light carrier to support the RDF (with some of the batt are being earmarked as the "airborne marines").No fighters of course....just helos
I have doubt that for the current requirement, the Malaysian RDF would need a carrier. I see that it is better if Malaysia mature it's airlift capability to boost it's current projection capability then later move on talking about more projection.
Inorder to achieve that level of projection, i see that the RMAF and RMN have to be modernised to reach a level of supremacy or excellence if not all projections in this region will be futile. Power projections will be halt if the carrier can negotiate the threat environment.
I see that Malaysia will be better off purchasing the old wish items such as the Roovaik, F/A-18F, more Astros2 etc then to procue a carrier fleet. I think Malaysia will be better with an all rounded upgrade rather than a directed upgrade in the field of projection in this field. The CDF will be wise to upgrade the navy with a few newer LSTs or light LPDs, if not such directional move will bring no benefits. -
The carrier looks like it's good to carry the 8 F/A-18 aircrafts ^^
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The catapult launch system is not there to support the hornets.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:The carrier looks like it's good to carry the 8 F/A-18 aircrafts ^^ -
yup.... sure can CARRY ONLY.... but cannot fly from itOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:The carrier looks like it's good to carry the 8 F/A-18 aircrafts ^^
but you could try to fly it off that "carrier" by reducing the weight of the hornet... like after you remove its engine!
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I think the french Mistral LHDs that they have ordered will be a pure Helo carrier according to reports becos the french is not planning to operate any fixed wing a/c on it, thus it will not come with a skip jump as shown in CGI.
It will be a flat deck for helo only.
The OZ requirement of two LHD might have them if they select the Mistral, cos it was reported that the OZ intend to operate STOVL JSF on their projected LHDs. -
Sounds like you guys need to move more stuff between East and West Malaysia. So - the RDF guys are expending both airborne and amphibious operations? The thing that strike me when I was in Malacca - the RDF really looks like a copy of the British para brigade. Even down to the style of berets worn and the cap badges, and organization and equipment wise too. Sure looks like British advisors at work.Originally posted by HARIMAU:First of all...the so call MAF ORBAT a bit dated.......read JANUARY 2004....and not OCT 2004.....so some stuffs like Rooivalks are not relevant anymore.
PM Abdullah went to France 8 weeks ago and met with among others DCN topbrass.LIMA and DSA were used by the French to "proposed" their BIP to the RMN.DCN already got a contract with RMN (Scorpene)......in short yes RMN do need a light carrier to support the RDF (with some of the batt are being earmarked as the "airborne marines").No fighters of course....just helos -
Originally posted by foxtrout8:I see that Malaysia will be better off purchasing the old wish items such as the Roovaik, F/A-18F, more Astros2 etc then to procue a carrier fleet. I think Malaysia will be better with an all rounded upgrade rather than a directed upgrade in the field of projection in this field. The CDF will be wise to upgrade the navy with a few newer LSTs or light LPDs, if not such directional move will bring no benefits.
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woah...looks like a guide to the singapore zoo than a ORBAT....that sure is alot of types of equipment..
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Hiz!Originally posted by bcoy:Sounds like you guys need to move more stuff between East and West Malaysia. So - the RDF guys are expending both airborne and amphibious operations? The thing that strike me when I was in Malacca - the RDF really looks like a copy of the British para brigade. Even down to the style of berets worn and the cap badges, and organization and equipment wise too. Sure looks like British advisors at work.
U can enter their camp in Malacca? -
There is a whole gamut of equipment they have proposed to buy in thier wish-list; but limited funds. The MAF has more important considerations than buying a `Mistral' class ship and letting go other purchases. For the RMN alone, there are 2 Lekiu Block 2 frigates, more Meko corvettes, proper armaments for the latter,etc to consider. This `mistral' proposal, if any, would come at the end of that wish-list. For a navy the size/nature of the RMN, it would be more than a trifle ambitious to put to sea a ship the size of the Mistral. Also, what maritime helicopters do they intend to deploy? Nuris?
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Faz77, are you the same guy from Asia & Pacific Defence forum?