Malaysian opinions on Defending the Lion City
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The best scenario would that we will never fire a shot in anger against each other.While the regular discussions of SAF being able to over run KL in two days often spice up many a admin time between recruits and their CSMs, the reality is much harsher.We have not fought a war.Our Plans are good, but our Ops have not been tested.The same goes for Malaysia, they have not fought conventional wars too.Any conflict here would be a mire.
Better that we pool together, we using Malaysia's knowledge in jungle warfare and the former using us as a bootstrap because of our superior network-centric Army and our usage of precision military technology to ensure that the Malacca Straits and the surrounding land be forever a free and international zone.Be wary of China.She is not what she might seem.There is a chance that we might have to sail in arms to protect the South China Sea from aggresive PRC naval incursions.Think this sounds far-fetched, look at the PRC regime, their hawkish attitudes, China's increasing dependancy on oil, her links with Myanmar that wil only last until ASEAN and the EU manage to "re-programme" her. -
For China to strike, it takes 10 years.
For N. Korea, tomorrow they might be a hazard. -
Tactically, Singapore is actually acting as a buffer state between indonesia and mainland Malaysia. Indonesia is more of a threat to Malaysia and Singapore. From what I gather , even the Malaysians don't like the indonesians for some reason. Singapore in history have been part of Malaya and not forgetting some Singaporeans still have ties to Malaysia through relations, hence I rather stick with a country who has a soft spot for us. And besides rupiah is too unsteady ...so I don't think Malaysia would want indonesia knocking at the door if Singapore falls. Think of confrontation times under sukarno- it wasn't pretty with the indonesians making trouble.
Singapore and Malaysia , I notice , always squabble like small brother and big brother . If u look at Denmark and Sweden , same thing...with the "my horse is bigger than ur horse" attitude. Ultimately Singapore needs Malaysia and Malaysia needs Singapore in order to be buffered from indonesia ,like Denmark require Sweden and the other scandinavian countries to be buffered from russia (or the former USSR). They still view Russia as a threat.
Just my two cents from a civilian point of view -
Yup , without all the facts. He started to criticised Tim Huxley's Defending the Lion City with so many holes that a truck can go thru!Originally posted by Typhoon:Someone forgot to tell him that this particular wet dream was invented not by Tim Huxely but by the Malaysian newspapers.
First thing the book was first published in 2000, thus Huxely based his analysis on the orbat of SG & MY before then.
So this stupi fool critcised Huxley based on non existence equipment before 2000!!!
For example on MY's AD, they dun even have a modern AD radar then only recently ordered some, in fact they also dun have have any Jernas & Igla ADS too!!! Even now , Jernas will only start delivery after 2005.
So their AD was so poor in 2000 that they only have VSHORADs Starburst and gun arty!!!!
Now let's talk abt their armour & anti armour capability, back in 2000, they only 26 Scorpion light tanks, and 184 Sibmas 6x6, 459 Condor 4x4 & maybe 110 KIFV.
So at that time they have a total of 210 light tanks/tank destroyer and 569 APC/IFV.
Compare that to SG's 372 light tanks(AMX13, AMX10PAC90), more than 1600 ( M113 Ultra, Bionix, V-150/200, AMX-10ICV) and lastly 100+ MBTs.
In fact the scenario still remain the same, their PT-91 and Nurol ACV300 is yet to start delivery.
So with all this facts, who is the fool?!? -
No, it is an OVER estimation. Many Arab nations had been involved in conflicts and wars for a long time andat least they have combat experience. Even though some Malaysian forummers had CLAIMED that MAF have combat experience, which war or conflict did the expereience come from? Somalia and Confrontasi? Ha..ha..ha... I will go into that more later.The Singapore mind, to place the Malaysian forces in the same category as the Arabs is an under estimation.
Blooded from which conflict/war? More likely blood coming from scraped hands and knees during the 40km march. However, more on that later.Most Malaysian servicemen have been blooded.
More likely, moaning when about to die.Malaysians are known in the business as "whispering death."
The British forces formed the bulk of resources in the insurgency and the SAS were the most effectively employed troops then. The forces were also led by a British commander. Therefore the above statement is BOOLSHEET!Malaysian troops are the only forces in the world to have defeated a communist insurgency.
The originator of the quote is humble. He had not claimed credit for MAF's contribution in the recent Iraq War. In fact, if not for MAF, the Americans, British and Australian would not have won. What is not publicly acknowledged was that the entire MAF dressed as American soldiers and drove the M1s in the drive into Iraq. The Americans only entered Iraq when MAF had defeated all opposition. The MAF then returned the American uniforms and M1s to the rightful owners before quietly departing leaving the credit for the Americans!The Malaysians persevered, rescuing the Rangers at the cost of one Malaysian killed, 9 wounded and losing 4 IFVs. Seventy, so called elite American forces did not litter the streets of Mogadishu with their bodies because of the sacrifices made by the Malaysians.
Oh incidentally, that's how the originator's claims that the "Most Malysian servicemen have been blooded" claim can be explained.
Let them march for 10 hours and get to the combat zone exhausted. We will use our Bionix and other transport to deliver our troops fresh.Malaysians have trained year in year out to march in full combat gear over 40 kms in under 10 hours and construct fire trenches with overhead protection within 8 hours.
How nice. Even trained them to dig their own graves. All we need to do is to cover up the graves. Incidentally, 8 hours is nothing to boast about is it? -
China is not the immediate threat . War is a drain on a country's resources and attacking SE Asia would not be viable to China. Why occupy when u can make a vessel state out of Singapore and make Singapore pay tributes. ( Malacca historical example). China is more focused on economic expansion and if she wants to expand her territory , Japan and Taiwan would be her immediate focus...China could just walk over and put her people there rather than relocate alot of mainland chinese to SE Asia. Furthermore China also have to protect her borders from Russia and India ...so like I said ...not viable. She would rather absorb territories nearby (look at tibet and inner mongolia).Originally posted by LazerLordz:Better that we pool together, we using Malaysia's knowledge in jungle warfare and the former using us as a bootstrap because of our superior network-centric Army and our usage of precision military technology to ensure that the Malacca Straits and the surrounding land be forever a free and international zone.Be wary of China.She is not what she might seem.There is a chance that we might have to sail in arms to protect the South China Sea from aggresive PRC naval incursions.Think this sounds far-fetched, look at the PRC regime, their hawkish attitudes, China's increasing dependancy on oil, her links with Myanmar that wil only last until ASEAN and the EU manage to "re-programme" her. -
Of course, have anyone heard the story of fox, stork and clam.Let's put it into context here. One day the stork (malaysia) found a clam (Singapore).The stork stuck a her beak into the clam in a attempt to pry her open. The clam in resistance shut so tightly that the stork could not pull her beak out. A fox (indonesia) came along and saw the two foes in a no-win situation . The fox went on to kill the stork and the clam was killed as well when the fox decided to use a rock to crack its shell open.Originally posted by dragonstar:Let them march for 10 hours and get to the combat zone exhausted. We will use our Bionix and other transport to deliver our troops fresh.
How nice. Even trained them to dig their own graves. All we need to do is to cover up the graves. Incidentally, 8 hours is nothing to boast about is it?
Moral of the story anyone? -
You must not use the beak to pry open a clam. You must use a rock.Originally posted by fymk:Of course, have anyone heard the story of fox, stork and clam.Let's put it into context here. One day the stork (malaysia) found a clam (Singapore).The stork stuck a her beak into the clam in a attempt to pry her open. The clam in resistance shut so tightly that the stork could not pull her beak out. A fox (indonesia) came along and saw the two foes in a no-win situation . The fox went on to kill the stork and the clam was killed as well when the fox decided to use a rock to crack its shell open.
Moral of the story anyone? -
Let's not talk about moral. The silliness of the entire debate had put me in a clownish mode :-) So let me continue so.Originally posted by fymk:Of course, have anyone heard the story of fox, stork and clam.Let's put it into context here. One day the stork (malaysia) found a clam (Singapore).The stork stuck a her beak into the clam in a attempt to pry her open. The clam in resistance shut so tightly that the stork could not pull her beak out. A fox (indonesia) came along and saw the two foes in a no-win situation . The fox went on to kill the stork and the clam was killed as well when the fox decided to use a rock to crack its shell open.
Moral of the story anyone?
The correct version of the end of the tale was never told. The clam actually had a nuclear bomb hidden and before it was killed, it detonated the bomb and the fox was killed too!
Ha..ha..ha.. -
hahaha, singapore is as HARD as a diamond..Originally posted by fymk:Of course, have anyone heard the story of fox, stork and clam.Let's put it into context here. One day the stork (malaysia) found a clam (Singapore).The stork stuck a her beak into the clam in a attempt to pry her open. The clam in resistance shut so tightly that the stork could not pull her beak out. A fox (indonesia) came along and saw the two foes in a no-win situation . The fox went on to kill the stork and the clam was killed as well when the fox decided to use a rock to crack its shell open.
Moral of the story anyone?
If those malaysians think they can really defend malaysia..think again..
Every day , they have to handle against Thailand threat..and thailand aircraft carrier , coz the recent 100 deaths of the insurgency...
Malaysia has over so many land to defend and it is so sparse in defence..
What makes you think that our locally developed arms industry will lose?
1 FACT
1. We can always produce Stealth Ships and Gunboats in our ST E Shipyard
2. Malaysia will have to order from DCN france
3. While bionix are being made in singapore and readily deployed..
once m'sia use finish their polish tanks..
They would have to fix a machine gun on top of their proton cars
they have to polish our boots =D
Singapore WILL NEVER lose , cause LOSING is NEVER an option
so if anyone said malaysia will win , it's already in our mind that we CANNOT Afford and we will never lose -
Radioactivity levels 9/10. Warning! Warning! Highly contaminated, please avoid.Originally posted by dragonstar:Let's not talk about moral. The silliness of the entire debate had put me in a clownish mode :-) So let me continue so.
The correct version of the end of the tale was never told. The clam actually had a nuclear bomb hidden and before it was killed, it detonated the bomb and the fox was killed too!
Ha..ha..ha.. -
Nope ... hard as a rock. Commonly mistaken, but it was not a clam, but a ROCK oyster :-)Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:hahaha, singapore is as HARD as a diamond.. -
An expansion on the moral of this story is that you must bring a rock to kopitiam when you order clam.Originally posted by Nelstar:You must not use the beak to pry open a clam. You must use a rock. -
"if u need to open the hum wif rock, tat means ur hum is not cooked or is chao liao"Originally posted by Nelstar:An expansion on the moral of this story is that you must bring a rock to kopitiam when you order clam.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you teach me ah? Don't need lah, I got enough knowledge on how to cook shellfish.Originally posted by foga:"if u need to open the hum wif rock, tat means ur hum is not cooked or is chao liao"
I just can't resist poking at the moral of the story thingy. -
someone makes a wrong comment intentionally or unintentionally and we are so eager to pour out everything we got to proof him wrong...
Interesting way to gather information from the ground and put the pieces together...
Thanks to all those who are so helpful to pour out everything that maybe even our 'friends' nv tot of it... -
if Threat of singapore's existence was heavily compromised..
think we may use our underground labs and 1 of our nukes..
to handle them..
Seriously, singapore can never stand a fight if this war was during last time
imagine
sword bearers 300,000 vs other few millions of sword bearers..
1:1.. -
Heard of Battle of Assaye? Read war stories? Know tactics?Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:if Threat of singapore's existence was heavily compromised..
think we may use our underground labs and 1 of our nukes..
to handle them..
Seriously, singapore can never stand a fight if this war was during last time
imagine
sword bearers 300,000 vs other few millions of sword bearers..
1:1..
No right?
Heard about the Spanish 'Invincible' Armada? Read about Modern warfare?
No right? Then?
Why bother? Me no General when war come. Fight lor fight lor. -
Aiyah, talk only, no action. Got action then say la
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Paper talk soldiers. What do you expect? Only talk only.. no action. Everyday complain. When Government come, chicken feet. When war come, chicken feet.Originally posted by deathscythe99:Aiyah, talk only, no action. Got action then say la -
Actual Malaysian soldiers that are trained is 150,000Originally posted by Nelstar:Paper talk soldiers. What do you expect? Only talk only.. no action. Everyday complain. When Government come, chicken feet. When war come, chicken feet. -
so how many soldiers u expect to turn up for a war?Originally posted by sbst275:Actual Malaysian soldiers that are trained is 150,000 -
We have at least 350,000 (If you take for 20 years, there are 18,000 intake each year)Originally posted by sbst275:Actual Malaysian soldiers that are trained is 150,000 -
How many fighting fit soldier? How many in infantry, navy and air force?Originally posted by sbst275:We have at least 350,000 (If you take for 20 years, there are 18,000 intake each year) -
Army: 310,000Originally posted by Nelstar:How many fighting fit soldier? How many in infantry, navy and air force?
RSAF: 14,000
RSN: 10,000