Final Debunking of the Pistol Myth
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For those diehards who still think you can engage riflemen with pistols and win.....
Please watch New Police Story.
Note what the HK police are armed with when they respond to the punks.
Glocks and revolvers. No shoulder weapons anywhere.
In contrast, the punks have the following which i can identify.
Enfield
H&K 7.62mm wirestock carbine
Various iterations of Colt M4 carbine.
Every weapon is armed with a sighting system, and it is explicitly shown that the punks use their sights.
In addition, the female punk is deployed for overwatch, and does a damn good job at it. What do we have, after the smoke clears?
A street full of wounded and shellshocked police.
Of course, one can find a dozen mistakes in Jackie's assault on their HQ, but that's another matter entirely. -
one of the robbers is using the Bushmaster M-17S bullpup... very rare weapon
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well, whoever got the most heavy firepower in the movie wins
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Then the final scene takes the cake.Originally posted by martin_lim85:well, whoever got the most heavy firepower in the movie wins
L
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crap want to watch oso can't watch..
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Its not the weaponry,but however the training of the individual shooter.It cannot be assumed that the one with the bigger and better gun will always win.A trained shooter will be able to stand up against a shoulder-weapon armed shooter anytime.
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ha, if they are 800m apart, the guy with the pistol, no matter wat pistol, has no chance even if he is super quick and accurate...heh. tell u dat armchair guns expert is useless one...sigh.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Its not the weaponry,but however the training of the individual shooter.It cannot be assumed that the one with the bigger and better gun will always win.A trained shooter will be able to stand up against a shoulder-weapon armed shooter anytime. -
If person is able to acquire weapons, that show he have the resources, and we must assume that he have the resources to have the basic shooting training too.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Its not the weaponry,but however the training of the individual shooter.It cannot be assumed that the one with the bigger and better gun will always win.A trained shooter will be able to stand up against a shoulder-weapon armed shooter anytime.
Training can only help you shoot well within the range of the pistol. Even if you are the best pistol shooter, I give you a 0.22 but facing off with an enemy with a rifle at 400m, there is nothing much you can do. So in real world weapon does make a different.
Give you a 0.22 and someone with a shotgun, what the chance ? you cannot assume there other party is not faster finger, he may be SMS champion, he may be strong enough to hold the shotgun still, and it is a shotgun an area target, there is still a lot of chance, you are being outgun.
face the fact, when machine gun 1st appear, it totally change the way of the war, so how can you make a sweeping statement to say it is not the weaponry. -
So a operator armed with an M4, placed on an open field, can somehow kill an sniper who has an Barrett M82 trained on him? Hmm.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Its not the weaponry,but however the training of the individual shooter.It cannot be assumed that the one with the bigger and better gun will always win.A trained shooter will be able to stand up against a shoulder-weapon armed shooter anytime.
The first responders on the scene were not normal RHKP patrolmen, but the EU unit. Just look at the license plate of the van. They were trained, in fact, a cut above the normal patrolman.
But they were engaged before they could get within nominal engagement range.
Add to that, none of the responders had night vision equipment, so they could not possibly have ID'd all the shooters. Even if they could have ID'd the shooters on the ground, what about the one performing overwatch?
I remind you that the aggressors were all young rich punks, with no formal training, except for a ex-Marine.
Note the distance they were engaged. It is *just* within extreme pistol range. But close range for a shoulder weapon.
Are you still in doubt? -
he has no experience in shooting or wat, he learn from the web which is rather limited and useless. different ammo different range, dats wat he fails to realise. specops87 still got lots to learn.Originally posted by storywolf:If person is able to acquire weapons, that show he have the resources, and we must assume that he have the resources to have the basic shooting training too.
Training can only help you shoot well within the range of the pistol. Even if you are the best pistol shooter, I give you a 0.22 but facing off with an enemy with a rifle at 400m, there is nothing much you can do. So in real world weapon does make a different.
Give you a 0.22 and someone with a shotgun, what the chance ? you cannot assume there other party is not faster finger, he may be SMS champion, he may be strong enough to hold the shotgun still, and it is a shotgun an area target, there is still a lot of chance, you are being outgun.
face the fact, when machine gun 1st appear, it totally change the way of the war, so how can you make a sweeping statement to say it is not the weaponry. -
aiya use LAW can kill those punk kids liao
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Hmm.Originally posted by martin_lim85:aiya use LAW can kill those punk kids liao
I've yet to come across an law enforcement unit able to use LAWs.
Perhaps you have? -
A good shooter would know how to use the right weapon for the right job...
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One of those would be, better englishOriginally posted by chunyong:he has no experience in shooting or wat, he learn from the web which is rather limited and useless. different ammo different range, dats wat he fails to realise. specops87 still got lots to learn.
One Shot,One Kill,The psychological,value that has,its incredible.
How many errors can you find with this?
And that was before he corrected his previous spelling of psychological. -
guys guys...
it's just a movie..
movies are meant to be taken with a pinch of salt -
Hmm.Originally posted by bismarck:guys guys...
it's just a movie..
movies are meant to be taken with a pinch of salt
Then somehow, somewhere, there is a G6 paper on "games and the applications for real training".
If a game can be used to train, why not a movie?
Movies can be used in replacement of actual footage. -
I was trained to get 8 out of 10 shots to the upper body at 500m using an M16 with iron sight. I can guarantee upper body shot at 300. Head shot at 200. But I will gladly take cover when I know the opponent has a 6X scope with a bolt action rifle.
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ur holding and breathin very steady hor!
say! -
Yes.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:ur holding and breathin very steady hor!
say! -
At 500 meters, can a 5.56 round still have sufficent energy to seriously wound or kill? And can a hit be achieved using non-match ammo? That's some pretty serious shooting there, I can't really get a good headshot beyond 100 myself.Originally posted by crosshairs:I was trained to get 8 out of 10 shots to the upper body at 500m using an M16 with iron sight. I can guarantee upper body shot at 300. Head shot at 200. But I will gladly take cover when I know the opponent has a 6X scope with a bolt action rifle. -
but what if I know gunkata, the art of handgun defense??Originally posted by Johnston:For those diehards who still think you can engage riflemen with pistols and win.....
Please watch New Police Story.
Note what the HK police are armed with when they respond to the punks.
Glocks and revolvers. No shoulder weapons anywhere.
In contrast, the punks have the following which i can identify.
Enfield
H&K 7.62mm wirestock carbine
Various iterations of Colt M4 carbine.
Every weapon is armed with a sighting system, and it is explicitly shown that the punks use their sights.
In addition, the female punk is deployed for overwatch, and does a damn good job at it. What do we have, after the smoke clears?
A street full of wounded and shellshocked police.
Of course, one can find a dozen mistakes in Jackie's assault on their HQ, but that's another matter entirely.
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ur bullet might not even hit the person....
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what? I'll show the person my elite gunkata skills and he can tell me my bullets cant hit him!!Originally posted by beavan:ur bullet might not even hit the person.... -
Yes the effective range for M16A1 is 460m. It is just a guide to getting the best effective or shooting within this range with a 5.56 round. The bullet can fly much further, and the still seriously wound or kill someone at even 800m.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:At 500 meters, can a 5.56 round still have sufficent energy to seriously wound or kill? And can a hit be achieved using non-match ammo? That's some pretty serious shooting there, I can't really get a good headshot beyond 100 myself.
In fact if you know the bullet tractory, there is nothing to stop you from hitting the target at 500m, but usually you will have go for a body shot rather then like 400m still can go for a head shot as with naked eye, at 500m, the head of target is kind of too small to take chance on. -
In real life, your gunkata skills probably involve periscoping your gun and spraying off one mag, hoping to at least scare the enemy away.
Seen the video where these two AK-totting armoured clowns robbed a bank? They managed to hold off hordes of pistol armed police until the feds had to borrow rifles from a gun store to finish the job. Give me a 5.56 anytime to a pistol.