I don't know, from experience seen helicopters been activited rather easily provided you get the right people at the end. Obviously we have a case of someone in the other end who should be shot for ignoring the doc who was on the ground judgement.Originally posted by baer:Saw in today papers (Oct 8 ) on Cdo sPOW abuse trial.
Doc (under cross examination) when trying to activate Helo evac told medic on other end that casualty 'was in coma'.. was told - "no go".
Doc then had to 'lie' : case is "heat exhausion" in order for Air Force to activate helo evac. Why is this so?
Originally posted by esesce:The things described in the last paragraph contravenes all rules relating to optimum physical training and sports science.It's just a pure tekan session that is held too often at too many camps for too long a time already.
Correct, you can't possible predict every contingency but 3 wasp stings sounds a little too much. If the person is allergic to bee stings, a single wasp sting is already enough to kill him.
After exercise you are flat on your back. But did you sit yourself down & then lie on your back? Or did you just collapse as though you fainted? During my first night of BMT (mind you, we were just enlisted that afternoon), we were asked to run around the parade square non stop. In the middle of the run, we would be stopped every now & then to do push ups, sit ups, star jumps, etc and then continue running.
Most of us were not very fit (being from the PTP batch) & were certainly not used to this suddenly VERY vigorous exercise. I saw with my own eyes several recruits collapse like flies. Some cynics might say they purposely fell so they could "rest" for a while.
Bullocks!! First of all, they didn't get to rest. If anyone fell, the instructors would squat next to them, fark the recruit & his parents & then drag the recruit up & force him to continue. Secondly, I don't think they would purposely fall face first. I saw some recruits collapse & when they hit the road, it was SMACK face first. That has GOT to hurt & like I said, I doubt anyone is dumb enough to do that on purpose.
When my buddy collapsed, he scrapped both elbows so badly that blood was flowing down his arms. Not only was medical attention not given, he was farked, told not to be a p[b]ussy & forced to continue running. If anyone expects me to believe that my buddy did that on purpose to "rest", I'll show him my middle finger.
Fitness have to be built up gradually. You run 2km first, then 5km, then 10 km & eventually 20km. If you are unfit, you do NOT run 20km on your first day. That is asking for trouble. Similarly, what happened to our batch was unacceptable. You do NOT subject recruits to that kind of treatment. Not on their very first day of BMT. If it was on the last week of BMT (pressumably most recruits are quite fit by then), it might have been more acceptable.[/b]
I don't blame the medic. He was prob following the damn SOP. If he follows SOP, he gets blamed for being inflexible. But if he doesn't follow SOP, he gets charged. So the person to be shot should be the person who wrote the SOP.Originally posted by baer:Interesting read on above posts. original post was on the trigger point for such cases.
Anyone with perfect hindsight (ability/opportunity to review after the facts have happened) can easily blame those before for mistakes. If you are in the middle what can you do?
Maybe the medic hearing the condition 'coma' was following guidelines (more below) and downgraded evac downwards, no excuse if he knew the facts fully. But did he?
Medical triage SOP (I think) is defined as 'critical' (need attention, can safe), 'not-so-ciritical' (need help, can wait) and 'No Hope' (critcal but may not survive, known in medical situation as DNR, do not resusitate). Why last category? If war situation (which is what SAF Medical services are programmed for), cannot not expend too much resources for 'No Hope' case at expense of many 'Critical' cases, "sacrifice one to save many" is the rationale. EXCEPTION I understand is those with WH status (I will be condemned for that last Comment).
ANy medic care to clarify??
Originally posted by baer:I think the original post is a bit inaccurate. The actual word used in the papers was comatose. To substitute the word comatose for coma is misleading as most people without first aid training don't really get the difference between the two.
Saw in today papers (Oct 8 ) on Cdo sPOW abuse trial.
Doc (under cross examination) when trying to activate Helo evac told medic on other end that casualty 'was in coma'.. was told - "no go".
Doc then had to 'lie' : case is "heat exhausion" in order for Air Force to activate helo evac. Why is this so?
Refuse lah, you got Att B leh. Light duties cannot go FBO right? If you're scared of repercussions, just do what he says first, then report sick again after that. Then bring it up to OC/PC/CSM. And the SAF hotline.Originally posted by ah_tee:its still there, not abt the CSM though but the fresh FI (3SG)
had fever the nite b4, morning was weak as hell, one of the instructor notice n ask me go rpt sick, mo gave me 3 days attn B, came back another instructor remoured to be racist, saw my status slip n threw it on the floor , he scolded me in malay "f*ck ur mother", ordered me 5mins full battle order