Infantry: The Workhorse of Battle.
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if you are talking about ending a war.. perhaps. but definitely not so in a battle. i won't use infantry for assault if i had other better options.Originally posted by kopiosatu:what he's trying to say is that no matter what, you still need the riflemen to end it. -
you're thinking too detailed already.Originally posted by YI:if you are talking about ending a war.. perhaps. but definitely not so in a battle. i won't use infantry for assault if i had other better options.
think of it in a general picture.
if you want to go into assault tactics which doesn't involve infantry, there's alot.
just think of it this way. who is going to kill the enemy with a rifle, should the enemy not surrender to bombings and shelling. you will still need the rifleman. -
u guys can slug it out here, i'm going out.
i still agree that the rifleman is needed should any battle/war comes down to the nitty gritty.
bye bye~ -
well.. if you use sub-machine gun in a showdown with the IDF.. chances are high that you will get killed whereas stones and bottles are common in any protest worldwide.Originally posted by John Ching:By the way Palestinians are fighting the IDF with stones unless CNN & BBC are lying.
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how true. you just can't safeguard against ambushes. better yet, never cross the path of the zealots. there is nothing more powerful in the world than one's faith. tolerance.. people.. tolerance.Originally posted by John Ching:Hey, have you checked out the suicide bombing rate in Iraq & Palestine? 1 would've thought that their population would have run out by now. Yet they seem to have suiciders every day, their women are really into to contributing for their courses.
True, S'pore can't afford to lose good fighting men but from what I've read from the news, the S'pore Armed Forces seem to be doing a hell of a job lossing men.
You know that theres no such thing as not losing men in war irregardless of how equipped they are, it'll always have to be the result of poor leadership & crappy planning by people behind the line.
If you talk about good transportations, check out the number of blackhawks downed & how many armour fighting vehicles blown up. By the way, those soldiers behind the pilot & drivers never got a chacne to fight back when it happens.
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they are not just gabbing a position, they are assaulting a fortified city held firmly by the enemy who are employing the shoot and scot tactic.Originally posted by John Ching:Troops in Falluja are moving are being transported there by blackhawks & armour fighting vehicle but they still aren't winning the war. -
alright.. you win. if the enemies are heavily entrenched or hiding in bunker, guess the infantry will have to do the dirty work then.Originally posted by kopiosatu:you're thinking too detailed already.
think of it in a general picture.
if you want to go into assault tactics which doesn't involve infantry, there's alot.
just think of it this way. who is going to kill the enemy with a rifle, should the enemy not surrender to bombings and shelling. you will still need the rifleman.
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SAF = The backbone of Singapore
Logistic = The backbone of SAF -
Um , Dunno if i should say this anot..
Rifleman are going to redundant in the future..
NS will be scrapped in the next 100 years..
=D
Our Israeli-made UAV is going to modified with much more technologies that surpasses the Predator..(won't go into specifics)
Might even come with "dogfighter" or equipped with AIM-120 AMRAAM
Regarding mobilization , there are many ways to do it..
Open mob,silent mob or what..
Most critical point about mobilisation is timing..
What's the use of mobilisation when the war is already over?
Think we should drop the "Singapore-better" ideology..
Sorry from what i know, in the future, you do not need to go 24 km ..
Marching is just keep the fitness in.. -
we already got plasmacasters and the clocking light-bending device right ?Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Um , Dunno if i should say this anot..
Rifleman are going to redundant in the future..
NS will be scrapped in the next 100 years..
=D
Our Israeli-made UAV is going to modified with much more technologies that surpasses the Predator..(won't go into specifics) -
If you wanna win a war, it also depends on how "evil" you wanna be..
The Palestine/Israeli conflict has not reached the most "Evil" point whereby
They are willing to use nukes and go on an all-out full war and use chemical attacks on each other...
Given Singapore's Small land area..and a dense population mass..
If the unseen enemy wanna be evil and play "unconventional" tactics with us..again the rifle man will be redundant..
There are thousands of ways to attack singapore..
Only a few will be effective..
Anyway, after the phasing out of F-35 A , the new plane will be remote-controlled =D
Sorry to say , Ground units ARE redudant..
Whats the point of patrolling when you can use UAV to patrol the area?
We're talking about war of the future mind you..since a war on singapore ain't gonna happen anytime soon..
So if a war is going to happen in the future, and not now..
i suggest you abort the "thinking" which set you there in the first place
C&C Is the Way of the Future..With those ideas thought up by gaming programmers..after that converted into reality..into C&C..
Who says that a Helicopter that can travel MACH 1 is impossible?
Who says Tanya is impossible?
and who says Mammoth Tank will be impossible..
Check this forum out after probably a generations later..
and you will be shocked..
The Real Warrior Now, Will Not Think About Going into war and uniform..
and travel in a ol' truck and carry a SAR-21, i think it's dumb.
The Real Warrior Now, will train in a simulation , fly his extensively modified UAV , and be prepared to give it more tasks and roles ...
Before 1942 , people all thought jet engine were a waste
because during that time , the jet engine consumed alot of fuel
And Before 2020 , people all thought that C&C was lame and did not relate to real life..because of sceptics but luckily we got DSO and DSTA that comes out with new innovations..
If im going to put someone into DSO / DSTA , im going to put someone who's going to think about the future, rather then only modifying current technologies..
Dude, this is completely the new warfare of the future..
you ain't gonna need logistics or what..
[ UAV + KC-135 R + AWAC(S)] can win malaysia anytime ...after 2040..
If someone were to reveal some top-secret projects for the future being conducted by any government
man..you NS boys would pee in the pants -
is this a plot to get us off this forum?
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In a war, Marching for 24 km is seriously the last thing a army would do..
although in earlier wars like WWI , soldiers did march alot..
marching is the "Stuff" which defense planners are going to eliminate in the future..
My plot :
NONE ;D , its just to show how immature you all will look in 100 years..
A great military general ,centuries ago, once said humans can never fly.
Bullshlt. But true.
SibeiSuayKia says: We make things that help us fly
Bull shlt. But more true.
No need rifleman to defend anything..cause NS would be scrapped due to many factors..
With China political rise, more and more chinese will immigrate over-seas as well..Imagining China will take the step of USA..that means they are going to have citizens all over the world..
Malaysia has reported that many chinese citizens went there for education..
So The Malays 60% population currency and racial hold is going to be 50%
As for Singapore , just like tripwire has mentioned , Singapore + M'sia will merge..with more racial equality ..and more fairer rights for Chinese and Indians as well
If not,
300 years into the future...
SBSK , 2004 :
Soldiers of the future would not march into a battle , for it wouldn't be fought with soldiers in the future
NG-SBSK , 2304 :
Bullshlt! we have already dying due to pollution and too many world wars which has happened using those UAV which drop chemical bombs! -
Battle for Britain was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Battle for Atlantic was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Falkland war could have been won by the Argentine if they had the navy and airforce to sink the brits before they arrived; the outcome of WW2 would be different if the German Navy won the battle for atlantic thus preventing all material supplies to the allies and the soviet.... crucial battles of many wars were fought before the infantry were involved. Is infantry the workhorse of battles?
If the airforce could completely annihiliate enemy's fighting machines like the IAF did in the Six Day War; if the weather could dissolve the enemy's fighting spirit such as the cold winter did to the Wehrmacht in Stalingrad; if you can bomb the hell out of your enemy, like in Berlin or Tokyo, then to plant a flag you need only a boy scout or a girl guide, ferried there in a helicopter. Infantryman should be capable of doing more than claiming the glory for being the first man to go in to plant a flag. Don't forget, the armour can move faster. In WW2, was it the Soviet tank armies or the US Fifth Guards Army who entered Berlin first? Was there any necessity to plant any flag in Tokyo, Hiroshima or Nagasaki after the bombings?
So what is the definition of "The Workhorse"?
As for the storeman, you don't exist if the fighting men do not exist! How can you claim importance over the units you support? -
What happened to all the Generals in this thread?
U guys did goood too -
And so I reiterate my point, no one arm can claim independence or supremacy over the other. All are integral and important for a successful campaign.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Battle for Britain was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Battle for Atlantic was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Falkland war could have been won by the Argentine if they had the navy and airforce to sink the brits before they arrived; the outcome of WW2 would be different if the German Navy won the battle for atlantic thus preventing all material supplies to the allies and the soviet.... crucial battles of many wars were fought before the infantry were involved. Is infantry the workhorse of battles?
If the airforce could completely annihiliate enemy's fighting machines like the IAF did in the Six Day War; if the weather could dissolve the enemy's fighting spirit such as the cold winter did to the Wehrmacht in Stalingrad; if you can bomb the hell out of your enemy, like in Berlin or Tokyo, then to plant a flag you need only a boy scout or a girl guide, ferried there in a helicopter. Infantryman should be capable of doing more than claiming the glory for being the first man to go in to plant a flag. Don't forget, the armour can move faster. In WW2, was it the Soviet tank armies or the US Fifth Guards Army who entered Berlin first? Was there any necessity to plant any flag in Tokyo, Hiroshima or Nagasaki after the bombings?
So what is the definition of "The Workhorse"?
As for the storeman, you don't exist if the fighting men do not exist! How can you claim importance over the units you support? -
I believe you've twisted history to your own liking. There are definately enough tomb stones of WW II infantry vets during Battle for Britain, Battle for Atlantic & Falkland war. But if you are referring to the battles fought of shore then you're judging the grid of the war to a particular area & only in that concept would your point be abit acceptable. Otherwise how are you going to explain about all the WW II tomb stones without insulting its occupants?Originally posted by sgdiehard:Battle for Britain was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Battle for Atlantic was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Falkland war could have been won by the Argentine if they had the navy and airforce to sink the brits before they arrived; the outcome of WW2 would be different if the German Navy won the battle for atlantic thus preventing all material supplies to the allies and the soviet.... crucial battles of many wars were fought before the infantry were involved. Is infantry the workhorse of battles?
If the airforce could completely annihiliate enemy's fighting machines like the IAF did in the Six Day War; if the weather could dissolve the enemy's fighting spirit such as the cold winter did to the Wehrmacht in Stalingrad; if you can bomb the hell out of your enemy, like in Berlin or Tokyo, then to plant a flag you need only a boy scout or a girl guide, ferried there in a helicopter. Infantryman should be capable of doing more than claiming the glory for being the first man to go in to plant a flag. Don't forget, the armour can move faster. In WW2, was it the Soviet tank armies or the US Fifth Guards Army who entered Berlin first? Was there any necessity to plant any flag in Tokyo, Hiroshima or Nagasaki after the bombings?
So what is the definition of "The Workhorse"?
As for the storeman, you don't exist if the fighting men do not exist! How can you claim importance over the units you support? -
Duplicated messaged!
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Are you talking about Infantry as in the 'Infantryman' or Infantry as in the Infantry Formation?Originally posted by Johnston:Artillery.
Armour.
Engineers.
Logistics.
Signals.
Adminstration.
Air Force.
Navy.
All of them support ONE formation. Namely. The Infantry.
As evidenced in the Vietnam War, and also WWII, you can bomb the enemy till the cows come home but you need to go in with troops on the ground.
So all the fancy MBTs, SPHs, AVLBs, what-have-yous.... support... the Rifleman.
Thoughts?
Rebuttals?
If you are talking about the 'Infantryman', I agree cos at the end of the day, no matter how high-tech your army is, the objective is secured by a human soldier raising the flag.
But if you are talking about 'Infantry' as in an 'Infantry Division', then it's a non-issue cos a Combined Arms Division consists of all the above formation you listed above. -
wow you are so smart man, no more infantry grunts woot. Dun worry man, i think a normal 10 click mission will prolly finish u off, no need for the 24 clickOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Um , Dunno if i should say this anot..
Rifleman are going to redundant in the future..
NS will be scrapped in the next 100 years..
=D
Our Israeli-made UAV is going to modified with much more technologies that surpasses the Predator..(won't go into specifics)
Might even come with "dogfighter" or equipped with AIM-120 AMRAAM
Regarding mobilization , there are many ways to do it..
Open mob,silent mob or what..
Most critical point about mobilisation is timing..
What's the use of mobilisation when the war is already over?
Think we should drop the "Singapore-better" ideology..
Sorry from what i know, in the future, you do not need to go 24 km ..
Marching is just keep the fitness in.. -
u can have all those funny stuff lar, i just cap all ur base see how u survive, or please tell us how are we going to deploy in a thick jungle without marching/bashing through, please tell me o mighty oneOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:If you wanna win a war, it also depends on how "evil" you wanna be..
The Palestine/Israeli conflict has not reached the most "Evil" point whereby
They are willing to use nukes and go on an all-out full war and use chemical attacks on each other...
Given Singapore's Small land area..and a dense population mass..
If the unseen enemy wanna be evil and play "unconventional" tactics with us..again the rifle man will be redundant..
There are thousands of ways to attack singapore..
Only a few will be effective..
Anyway, after the phasing out of F-35 A , the new plane will be remote-controlled =D
Sorry to say , Ground units ARE redudant..
Whats the point of patrolling when you can use UAV to patrol the area?
We're talking about war of the future mind you..since a war on singapore ain't gonna happen anytime soon..
So if a war is going to happen in the future, and not now..
i suggest you abort the "thinking" which set you there in the first place
C&C Is the Way of the Future..With those ideas thought up by gaming programmers..after that converted into reality..into C&C..
Who says that a Helicopter that can travel MACH 1 is impossible?
Who says Tanya is impossible?
and who says Mammoth Tank will be impossible..
Check this forum out after probably a generations later..
and you will be shocked..
The Real Warrior Now, Will Not Think About Going into war and uniform..
and travel in a ol' truck and carry a SAR-21, i think it's dumb.
The Real Warrior Now, will train in a simulation , fly his extensively modified UAV , and be prepared to give it more tasks and roles ...
Before 1942 , people all thought jet engine were a waste
because during that time , the jet engine consumed alot of fuel
And Before 2020 , people all thought that C&C was lame and did not relate to real life..because of sceptics but luckily we got DSO and DSTA that comes out with new innovations..
If im going to put someone into DSO / DSTA , im going to put someone who's going to think about the future, rather then only modifying current technologies..
Dude, this is completely the new warfare of the future..
you ain't gonna need logistics or what..
[ UAV + KC-135 R + AWAC(S)] can win malaysia anytime ...after 2040..
If someone were to reveal some top-secret projects for the future being conducted by any government
man..you NS boys would pee in the pants -
you are wrong bitch, AA gunners aren't infantry man??? Troops manning station on convoys, some were infantry manOriginally posted by sgdiehard:Battle for Britain was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Battle for Atlantic was fought and won without one infantryman on both sides involved. Falkland war could have been won by the Argentine if they had the navy and airforce to sink the brits before they arrived; the outcome of WW2 would be different if the German Navy won the battle for atlantic thus preventing all material supplies to the allies and the soviet.... crucial battles of many wars were fought before the infantry were involved. Is infantry the workhorse of battles?
If the airforce could completely annihiliate enemy's fighting machines like the IAF did in the Six Day War; if the weather could dissolve the enemy's fighting spirit such as the cold winter did to the Wehrmacht in Stalingrad; if you can bomb the hell out of your enemy, like in Berlin or Tokyo, then to plant a flag you need only a boy scout or a girl guide, ferried there in a helicopter. Infantryman should be capable of doing more than claiming the glory for being the first man to go in to plant a flag. Don't forget, the armour can move faster. In WW2, was it the Soviet tank armies or the US Fifth Guards Army who entered Berlin first? Was there any necessity to plant any flag in Tokyo, Hiroshima or Nagasaki after the bombings?
So what is the definition of "The Workhorse"?
As for the storeman, you don't exist if the fighting men do not exist! How can you claim importance over the units you support? -
By the time we have that technology , we will have UAV mounted with M-60 automatic cannon or that one which you see on A-10 ThunderBolt..which is a GAU-8 cannon 30 mmOriginally posted by Geforce3:u can have all those funny stuff lar, i just cap all ur base see how u survive, or please tell us how are we going to deploy in a thick jungle without marching/bashing through, please tell me o mighty one
1. Friendly/Foe tracking system will be in place
2. Revolutionary design for it to engage enemy planes as well
How powerful will it be? i don't know..all i know is that singapore is gonna rely on more and more technology..
no more guard duty in the future..cheers!
hah, its even more tougher to engage my planes..
There will be an integrated computer flight control system for all of it..
that means..self autopilot and self patrol..
There also will be night vision camera and a sensor to detect human body heat...not to mention a system which can track down I/R missiles aimed at it
If you lock on into it, the system will detect you..and automatically...a automatic self programmed to "engage" you..probably flying at 1,000 feet..
and less vulnearable that those guards..
those guards who hide in 1 checkpoint..enemy just fire 1 RPG ..your gone..
If the plane crash..the guards will be placed on full alert ^^
UAV are way to go for the future!
The UAV are also much more expendable..
compared to human lives -
sbsk, you're not using your brains at all.
and i quote from joho "If you don't say anything, nobody will say you're dumb" -
this relationship unfortunately works both way. without the storeman keeping track or maintaining its stores, how can the fighting men win a battle with broken down equipments? as Obersturmfuhrer mentions, no one arm can claim independence or supremacy over the other. All are integral and important for a successful campaign.Originally posted by sgdiehard:As for the storeman, you don't exist if the fighting men do not exist! How can you claim importance over the units you support?