Equality between genders
-
It seems, Loving the wrong person can be a real disaster.
Now the question is.
Should one find the right guy to fall in love with ?
Or should one fall in love with the guy hoping he is right ?? -
The point here is such women can only profit because there're men out there who allow themselves to be foolishly exploited by these women (in the cases of those who aren't serious about relationships with those guys).Originally posted by dokono:this gender debate will never end
one thing is for sure, women, especially the pretty ones have the advantage of choosing who she wants to be with and she will not make the initial approach.
This is something all guys have to accept because guys by default make the first move. And we run the risk of being rejected. In this game of courtship, women have the advantage in this sense.
doko
Just like anyone going to look for a job - if you choose to shortchange yourself and settle for wages below market value on your own accord, you can't whine about how you are exploited, can you? Afterall, you've always got the option of walking off and looking elsewhere for a job... -
I understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting a basic safety net, but what exactly does a marriage mean to you?Originally posted by jojobeach:I do not know if you are a guy or a gal.
But me, a gal.
At first ,my parents has always disapprove/approve of guys which they deem unsuitable, mostly based on their educational qualifications. Or commonly known as CEP in our civil service.
Then they disapprove of guys who comes from poor family, especially the only sons. Because they believe I will suffer since this guy will need to support not only his own wife/children he also needs to support his age old parents.
Soon as I grow older, they dissapprove/approve guys based on his income level. Because they want to make sure the guy is financially able to ensure I will live a comfortable life.
I used to date a poor guy, nice and honest. But my parents refused to accept this , the question they ask is. What is he gonna feed you ? Grass ?? Love can survive on wind and air. But marriage cannot.
I know my parents love me and wants the best for me.
What do you think ? If you have a daughter, would you prefer she marries her handsome prince charming ? or a Rich baron ?
Personally. I would prefer a combination of both.
As a matter of fact, I do not shower excessive chivalry on anyone I barely know and neither have I dated anyone who expects excessive chivalry from a guy. At the end of the day, just as most women want security from a guy, guys too are on the lookout for signs exhibited by women which would allow them to seperate the potential wife-material from those good-for-nothing-bums-who-expect-everything-but-give-nothing-in-return. At the end of the day, no man looking for a serious relationship will want to entertain the idea of marrying a woman who isn't prepared to shoulder the rough times with him as much as no woman wants to marry a pauper.
For all your talk about the criteria you expect in your mate, just bear in mind your potential partner - at least, for a serious one who's looking for a wife and not just a fling - is scrutinising your credentials no less stringently as you're scrutinising his. Sure, in an ideal world, you'd love to have a guy who's drop-dead gorgeous(whatever your definition of it may be), obscenely rich, has the intellect of an Ivy Graduate and the character of a samaritan. But what makes you think a guy with those qualities (assuming he exists) would even check you out since chances are he could have the pick of most women whose path he crosses? Unless you have got the looks of a Miss Universe, a billionaire dad, the character of Mother Theresa and the intellect of Marie Curie combined, then I rest my case. -
I don't think that's the right question. The correct question should be: should you find the one who is committed to the relationship? Are you, the girl, wife-to-be going to make 100 percent commitment to the relationship as well? Or are you only thinking for yourself?Originally posted by jojobeach:It seems, Loving the wrong person can be a real disaster.
Now the question is.
Should one find the right guy to fall in love with ?
Or should one fall in love with the guy hoping he is right ??
doko -
Exactly the reason why I posted my comments that men should be aware that mercenaries exist. Just be careful with who are you dealing with and don't marry the wrong woman.Originally posted by walesa:The point here is such women can only profit because there're men out there who allow themselves to be foolishly exploited by these women (in the cases of those who aren't serious about relationships with those guys).
Just like anyone going to look for a job - if you choose to shortchange yourself and settle for wages below market value on your own accord, you can't whine about how you are exploited, can you? Afterall, you've always got the option of walking off and looking elsewhere for a job...
On the other hand, there are guys who know they exist but allow their own love for the girl blind them to the truth. They will keep rationalising her behaviour and put up with mercenary women's demands. Who else to be blamed but only themselves?
doko -
Well taken.Originally posted by walesa:I understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting a basic safety net, but what exactly does a marriage mean to you?
As a matter of fact, I do not shower excessive chivalry on anyone I barely know and neither have I dated anyone who expects excessive chivalry from a guy. At the end of the day, just as most women want security from a guy, guys too are on the lookout for signs exhibited by women which would allow them to seperate the potential wife-material from those good-for-nothing-bums-who-expect-everything-but-give-nothing-in-return. At the end of the day, no man looking for a serious relationship will want to entertain the idea of marrying a woman who isn't prepared to shoulder the rough times with him as much as no woman wants to marry a pauper.
For all your talk about the criteria you expect in your mate, just bear in mind your potential partner - at least, for a serious one who's looking for a wife and not just a fling - is scrutinising your credentials no less stringently as you're scrutinising his. Sure, in an ideal world, you'd love to have a guy who's drop-dead gorgeous(whatever your definition of it may be), obscenely rich, has the intellect of an Ivy Graduate and the character of a samaritan. But what makes you think a guy with those qualities (assuming he exists) would even check you out since chances are he could have the pick of most women whose path he crosses? Unless you have got the looks of a Miss Universe, a billionaire dad, the character of Mother Theresa and the intellect of Marie Curie combined, then I rest my case.
It is true, for every man I scrutinise, they are in turn doing the same to me. Therefore I look at my own strength and weakness first before seeking to find the other half who best complements it.
In my social circle, there is no lack of eligible bachelors and eligible bachelorettes.
What I see is that the best seeks out the best and so forth.
Hence there is a understated competition going on in this circle. Even between good friends.
A good marriage is one when each compliments one another.
For every imperfection in a man, is a perfection brought in by the woman.
For every weakness in a woman, is a strenght brought forth by the man.
True loves merely ignites the fire, true marriage is sustained not by love, but by respect and mutual admiration.
How does one know if the person you are pursuing is outa your league ?
For every frog that dreams of kissing a princess, there is a ugly duckling who thinks one is a swan. -
Perhaps I do not fully understand this sentence " Or are you only thinking for yourself". But in my understanding, which person does not think of oneself first ?Originally posted by dokono:I don't think that's the right question. The correct question should be: should you find the one who is committed to the relationship? Are you, the girl, wife-to-be going to make 100 percent commitment to the relationship as well? Or are you only thinking for yourself?
doko
If one does not think of oneself, he/she would not seek the perfect relationship. -
I'm not so much touching on the mercenary part.Originally posted by dokono:Exactly the reason why I posted my comments that men should be aware that mercenaries exist. Just be careful with who are you dealing with and don't marry the wrong woman.
On the other hand, there are guys who know they exist but allow their own love for the girl blind them to the truth. They will keep rationalising her behaviour and put up with mercenary women's demands. Who else to be blamed but only themselves?
doko
Just look at it another way : it's the desperation (in the sense that they'd go out of the way to be a gentleman even to unworthy women) of these guys who convey the false sense of excessive chivalry which instills in such women to "expect" such gestures from guys in general. If this were an economics class, I'd liken it to the realisation of a "self-fulfilling prophecy" arising from a made-believed "supply-and-demand" market. I suppose, looking at it holistically, it's such practices which fuel the growth of more guys having the mindset to conduct themselves in an honourable manner even to the most dishonourable women they come across (just so that they'd outdo other guys) that is of greater concern than such guys being exploited... -
I do not know you personally, so obviously my point wasn't directed at you specifically.Originally posted by jojobeach:Well taken.
It is true, for every man I scrutinise, they are in turn doing the same to me. Therefore I look at my own strength and weakness first before seeking to find the other half who best complements it.
In my social circle, there is no lack of eligible bachelors and eligible bachelorettes.
What I see is that the best seeks out the best and so forth.
Hence there is a understated competition going on in this circle. Even between good friends.
A good marriage is one when each compliments one another.
For every imperfection in a man, is a perfection brought in by the woman.
For every weakness in a woman, is a strenght brought forth by the man.
True loves merely ignites the fire, true marriage is sustained not by love, but by respect and mutual admiration.
How does one know if the person you are pursuing is outa your league ?
For every frog that dreams of kissing a princess, there is a ugly duckling who thinks one is a swan.
Just to illustrate how ridiculous a mismatch of reality and expectations could be, just let me cite you a typical example I've come across. I've come across average-looking women with a well-to-do job and education (basically, it's degree holders we're talking about since I'm in a top-notch financial firm) who think the world of their own self-worth whose expectations (be it in terms of looks or financial stability) of their partners are nothing short of exceptional. In short, the sort of qualities they expect their partners to possess should dwarf theirs by a long mile (be it the personal income or educational background) - and they're pretty obstinate about not considering anyone who falls short of these expectations. Even then, these same folks would tell me even if a guy who met their expectations existed and were within sight, they wouldn't initiate the first move. In essence, it's a clear reflection of how some - subconsciously or otherwise - price themselves out of the market in the process. I wouldn't blame eligible men (in terms of meeting the requirements set out by such women) not hitting on such women simply because I don't think it's realistic to contemplate having a serious relationship with someone who shows absolutely no inclination to make sacrifices in this relationship and comes in with a profit-oriented mindset.
Now, isn't that a case of mismatching reality and expectations? Try imagining someone scoring straight C's and actually expects Harvard to make an offer to them and you'd get the drift of how ridiculous some expectations can be... -
Wah, you same situation as mee and my mum prefered less rich more caring and thoughtful husband.Originally posted by jojobeach:Which dad ?
I have two dads.
The poor dad my mother married out of love , who eventually left us and disspeard before I was born ?
Or the richer dad my mom is married to now, who is younger than she is.
-
LOL If you still can pick and choose, it's not love
Originally posted by jojobeach:It seems, Loving the wrong person can be a real disaster.
Now the question is.
Should one find the right guy to fall in love with ?
Or should one fall in love with the guy hoping he is right ?? -
My comment posted here will be biased. To those good girls out there, it will be unfair, but I have come across too many bad ones...
Haha... I lost count on the number of times I held doors for females (strangers) who walked pass without even saying "thank you" or a nod to acknowledge the kind act. Soon, I will throw away my suit of shining armour and have it rust somewhere...
My friend and I was going up an MRT escalator during rush hour. You see, when you go up the escalator, most people will file up and you step on when it is your turn. We were sure it was clearly our turn to step on when an office lady (wearing a jacket and those tight office skirts) just cut into our path. Know what she said? LADIES FIRST. We were left stunned. This is an incident that I will keep repeating to my friends till they are sick of it.
Well, an Australian post-doc (how ungentlemanly can he be?) in my lab complained he received the LADIES FIRST treatment while he was boarding a bus. He too, was left speechless.
I am sure most of us here has come across materialistic women in one way or another, directly ot indirectly. There is nothing much to elaborate. There are, however, some comments I wish to make.
Guys, if you are attracted to (I will not say "fall in love" ) a woman who is materialistic, please be realistic lah. If you can afford to let her squander off your money, go ahead and whack. You will help take these woman out of circulation and protect most of the guys But if you cannot afford, eat a humbe pie and back off. There is no need to struggle to meet her demands. The end will not be pretty.
People are marrying later compared to one generation ago. To those who are married, I think you can say "whew, I am passed this stage." To those who are not, well, good luck
There are more and more guys joining the bachelor club as a permanent member. 3 of my close friends are signing on as a member. They are well educated and earning quite a bit.
Women will always say men here "Cannot Make It" when asked why are they unattached, or unmarried. I always simile when they give that answer.
Hides and prepares antiflame suit -
hmm.. I agreed on your previous post. But I do have comments on this. I thought a perfect relationship should be each party thinking of the other one first...not the opposite.Originally posted by jojobeach:Perhaps I do not fully understand this sentence " Or are you only thinking for yourself". But in my understanding, which person does not think of oneself first ?
If one does not think of oneself, he/she would not seek the perfect relationship.
Lady A may be the ideal partner fulfilling all my criteria.
Lady B does everything with me in mind. She may not be as pretty on the outside, or she may be poor, etc. But I'll consider myself being the luckiest man alive. -
okaayyy.. so you would marry Lady B even though she is not your ideal partner. But because she does everything for you ?Originally posted by airgrinder:hmm.. I agreed on your previous post. But I do have comments on this. I thought a perfect relationship should be each party thinking of the other one first...not the opposite.
Lady A may be the ideal partner fulfilling all my criteria.
Lady B does everything with me in mind. She may not be as pretty on the outside, or she may be poor, etc. But I'll consider myself being the luckiest man alive.
If you tell this to your partner, she will be very very hurt.
This in itself shows the selfishness in your decision.
You can appreciate Lady B,but no woman wants to be the convenient choice. -
Equal education opportunities for both sexes does not mean males and females will end up equally intelligent. To be academically smart just shows that the person is capable of memorizing or storing information efficiently. To apply that intelligence to real life is another matter. The tendency for intellects is to analyze and dissect what is fair and not fair when the truth to being successful in ALL aspects of life requires IQ + EQ.
To my interpretation, EQ is being street smart. To be able to assess situations, make finger-snapping decisions based on a win-win solution by adapting oneself to think and feel like others. Mastering the art of bringing out the best in people and speaking to them on the same wavelengths is a skill that is best learnt by being ultra attentive and receptive to the differences in human nature. It takes years to do that.
Just because a female receives the same education as a male, that does not mean the female is automatically on par with the male intellectually or vice versa. When it comes to courtesy, like who pays for a meal, it is basically up to the female or male to compromise.
TS, if your gf make comments about her sister's bf, indirectly she is envying her sister's lifestyle BUT, that does not mean she expects you to provide her the same lavish gifts her sister got from her bf. Take it this way, she is NOT her sister and I believe that's what she wishes - to have the looks, personality and characteristics of her sister. Do you see it now? -
To a certain extent, I do agree everyone is thinking for himself, even when he is donating money to charity.Originally posted by jojobeach:Perhaps I do not fully understand this sentence " Or are you only thinking for yourself". But in my understanding, which person does not think of oneself first ?
If one does not think of oneself, he/she would not seek the perfect relationship.
My point is, are you looking to marry a guy for your material benefits or a guy you love and you both are willing to commit to the relationship? When the guy is struggling to make ends meet, will you suddenly back out of the relationship? Is love and relationship all about money now that both sexes can have their own income source? If we observe true love between two reasonable persons carefully, the money problem is not an issue. It's only a problem for women with a monetary agenda.
Are you saying you want to be a tai-tai and shake leg forever? lol
I have seen a lot of girls demanding this and that from their bf. Should that be the case? Love should just be simple enjoyment between both parties, instead of suspicion, distrust and unreasonable demands.
Enough of what you-can-do-for-me ideas. Get rid of those ugly thoughts. Instead, try to see how you can enjoy your relationship and have fun together.
doko -
Originally posted by Cro-Magnon:
Ladies first?( translated as "unreasonable ladies first" ) so the men how? last always?
My comment posted here will be biased. To those good girls out there, it will be unfair, but I have come across too many bad ones...
Haha... I lost count on the number of times I held doors for females (strangers) who walked pass without even saying "thank you" or a nod to acknowledge the kind act. Soon, I will throw away my suit of shining armour and have it rust somewhere...
My friend and I was going up an MRT escalator during rush hour. You see, when you go up the escalator, most people will file up and you step on when it is your turn. We were sure it was clearly our turn to step on when an office lady (wearing a jacket and those tight office skirts) just cut into our path. Know what she said? [b]LADIES FIRST. We were left stunned. This is an incident that I will keep repeating to my friends till they are sick of it.
Well, an Australian post-doc (how ungentlemanly can he be?) in my lab complained he received the LADIES FIRST treatment while he was boarding a bus. He too, was left speechless.
I am sure most of us here has come across materialistic women in one way or another, directly ot indirectly. There is nothing much to elaborate. There are, however, some comments I wish to make.
Guys, if you are attracted to (I will not say "fall in love" ) a woman who is materialistic, please be realistic lah. If you can afford to let her squander off your money, go ahead and whack. You will help take these woman out of circulation and protect most of the guys But if you cannot afford, eat a humbe pie and back off. There is no need to struggle to meet her demands. The end will not be pretty.
People are marrying later compared to one generation ago. To those who are married, I think you can say "whew, I am passed this stage." To those who are not, well, good luck
There are more and more guys joining the bachelor club as a permanent member. 3 of my close friends are signing on as a member. They are well educated and earning quite a bit.
Women will always say men here "Cannot Make It" when asked why are they unattached, or unmarried. I always simile when they give that answer.
Hides and prepares antiflame suit
[/b]
Let's say you are waiting for a taxi and a lady cuts your queue and say the above, will you be happy or angry ?
I wonder how many guys will agree with this statement and allow a lady to take the taxi first, assuming both are in a hurry.
doko -
IMO, the answer should be none.Originally posted by dokono:Ladies first?( translated as "unreasonable ladies first" ) so the men how? last always?
Let's say you are waiting for a taxi and a lady cuts your queue and say the above, will you be happy or angry ?
I wonder how many guys will agree with this statement and allow a lady to take the taxi first, assuming both are in a hurry.
doko
i wonder which guy would.. -
shoudln't lady B be flattered.. i mean she just proved herself better than lady A.. just having 1 quality in her beats EVERYTHING lady A has.. and tat's having ur other half in mind..Originally posted by jojobeach:okaayyy.. so you would marry Lady B even though she is not your ideal partner. But because she does everything for you ?
If you tell this to your partner, she will be very very hurt.
This in itself shows the selfishness in your decision.
You can appreciate Lady B,but no woman wants to be the convenient choice.
lady B isn't a convenient choice.. she is THE CHOSEN ONE! -
Just wondering.
If a girl has good qualities (gd looks, educated, financial independence & security) is it reasonable for her to look for a guy with ALL three qualities as well?
I mean, fair is fair right?? -
Originally posted by Jerina:
explain security?
Just wondering.
If a girl has good qualities (gd looks, educated, financial independence & security) is it [b]reasonable for her to look for a guy with ALL three qualities as well?
I mean, fair is fair right??
[/b]
doko -
Originally posted by Jerina:
I think it's about the both of you working together for a solution than expecting anything from him/her.
Just wondering.
If a girl has good qualities (gd looks, educated, financial independence & security) is it [b]reasonable for her to look for a guy with ALL three qualities as well?
I mean, fair is fair right??
[/b]
You know why? No one's perfect.
doko -
Originally posted by Jerina:
The notions of fairness and pursuing equality are seperate entities.
Just wondering.
If a girl has good qualities (gd looks, educated, financial independence & security) is it [b]reasonable for her to look for a guy with ALL three qualities as well?
I mean, fair is fair right??
[/b]
I'm not too sure if too many Asian women would actually seek to actively pursue such a guy if she came across one - and that's before you might factor in whether the perceived notion of fairness extends to financial matters and chivalry... -
all the girls u know insist that guys must pay ma?Originally posted by ahhaoz:if this is what we are striving for... then perhaps the gals can stop bringing up the guys should pay for everything, the guy should open the door for the gal... maybe shouldn't bring up "feng du" at all..
dates should be on dutch basis etc,
wad everyone think...?
i may be wrong.. so enlighten me!
then i can only say, u are so unlucky. -
My take will be.. girls, marry someone who will bring u happiness and not bread.. watever it is, follow your heart.