i slapped my boyfriend
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Having a root issue does not make it ok to abuse.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:there're all kinds of abuses i guess.
was your ex unhappy about something too? there's always a root issue -
no it doesn't. but it could be prevented in the future.Originally posted by jojobeach:Having a root issue does not make it ok to abuse.
like the murder case? the bus driver was a victim too. just that he had no outlet like therapy and stuff, and he went nuts and killed the 15 year old girl.
its easy to judge someone, but take a moment to see his pov. its sad. -
It's like telling someone who is bullied in school to prepare his fisticuffs and get ready for a brawl in light of other resolution methods. Many of such cases escalate - not because the abuser believes can get away with it - but because the victim turns to the same problematic act of violence. In any case, if you want the abuser to be apprehended and stopped, the answer should be talking to someone about it. Simply joining in the fight to stop a fight not only makes his angry response more justifiable (to himself), but it's also using the same exact medium we find abusive in the first place. Your point about standing up to violence with violence is the very substance of why these things end up so badly. Do you then, for example, think that Myanmar's violent response to the violent protesters is right?Originally posted by jojobeach:I think you guys missed the point.
What I am trying to say here is, in the face of an abuser or bully, you don't back down quietly. You stare him straight in his face and make sure he knows what/who he is dealing with.
An abuser continues his bullying ways, always because he believes he can get away with it. -
Prevented ? LOL.. easier said than done.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:no it doesn't. but it could be prevented in the future.
like the murder case? the bus driver was a victim too. just that he had no outlet like therapy and stuff, and he went nuts and killed the 15 year old girl.
its easy to judge someone, but take a moment to see his pov. its sad.
Why would an abuser avoid abusing his victim ?
The same reason why TS's bf threaten her with hot water on her face ?
Are you saying it was TS's own fault for bringing forth this threat ?
So it's often the victim's own fault they get abused ? Geesh. -
Is that what your parents taught you ? Or was it your idea of handling a bully ?Originally posted by Michaeled:It's like telling someone who is bullied in school to prepare his fisticuffs and get ready for a brawl in light of other resolution methods. Many of such cases escalate - not because the abuser believes can get away with it - but because the victim turns to the same problematic act of violence. In any case, if you want the abuser to be apprehended and stopped, the answer should be talking to someone about it. Simply joining in the fight to stop a fight not only makes his angry response more justifiable (to himself), but it's also using the same exact medium we find abusive in the first place. Your point about standing up to violence with violence is the very substance of why these things end up so badly. Do you then, for example, think that Myanmar's violent response to the violent protesters is right?
In our culture, true, we try to pacify the situation instead of aggravating it.
Our Kiasee culture.
When a girl gets molested, the public tries to silence her.
When a girl gets threatened, the public says she asked for it.
When a girl gets dumped after she is impregnanted, the public calls her a whore.
This is our SG culture, and we are so damn proud of it.
The case of Myanmar is clearly OPPRESSION. You want to use that example for this discussion ? You're joking right ? What kind of news are you being fed ?
Violent response to violent protesters ? You really mean violent response to monk protesters correct , monks get beaten up , rounded up and massacred? You also really meant , after years of military oppressions, the protesters are wrong in their uprising ? -
jojobeach...Originally posted by jojobeach:Is that what your parents taught you ? Or was it your idea of handling a bully ?
You're getting WAY out of line and way to personal if you're bringing my parents into it. I won't dwell too long on this since you probably don't mean it. But its not a nice thing to do in any discussion.
Thats that. So. I'm not going to personally insult your upbringing or immediate family members, but:
I'm confused with your inconsistency to follow your argument throughout - jojobeach. Are you trying to redefine the word ''oppression''? Isn't oppression an abuse or cruel exercise of strength? And in the case of Myanmar - the general context is still the same as the one YOU were talking about:
Aren't you already implying that an abuser is someone who is in a position of the exercise of strength since he is someone who ABUSE? Unless you're saying that the abuser was never in the position of strength when he is bullying irregardless of how ridiculous that may be. So how is it not essentially the same as in the case of Myanmar?Originally posted by jojobeach:What I am trying to say here is, in the face of an abuser or bully, you don't back down quietly.
An abuser continues his bullying ways, always because he believes he can get away with it.
You arrive at this conclusion with an inference from where?Originally posted by jojobeach:In our culture, true, we try to pacify the situation instead of aggravating it.
Our Kiasee culture.
When a girl gets molested, the public tries to silence her.
When a girl gets threatened, the public says she asked for it.
When a girl gets dumped after she is impregnanted, the public calls her a %$^**.
This is our SG culture, and we are so damn proud of it.
Our culture is Kiasee and we're proud of it.
A girl will always be blamed for being abused.
We always pacify the situation.
Who said anything about pacifying the situation? Is that your personal opinion or objective substantive? If substantive, can I say that you are just simply putting forth an assumption and generalisation of the entire female gender? Surely you're also saying that we are ALL like that?
Who is the public? Does friends/family members count? If not, how is this relevant to my aforesaid argument? (I said to talk to friends/family NOT the public!
)
How many cases did have you read of such incident before coming to the conclusion that this must always be so?
Don't bring your emotional baggage with you when dealing with a debate on an objective issue such as whether violence for violence is right or wrong. -
mmmm... i think jojo, you have to cut the public some slacks coz it's not fair for you to judge the collective by saying they are inefficient at handling things like BGR abuse or women being the victims. Its easy to say that, but when it comes down to the real thing does violence solve violence? I mean, have you tried asking for help when you were in your position before (sorry if this sounds like a personal question)
just my 2 cents -
Michaeled,
My apologies if you find it too personal for you. No I have no intention of insulting your parents.
We are talking about a couple's fight. Why do you have to bring in International Politics ?
You want to lump everything together ?
To be honest, the uprising of Myanmar is long overdued.
If it takes violence to end oppressive violence, then so be it.
Freedom is never free. -
mmm. Michaeled I agree that Myanmar and general abuse of strength is clearly fundamentally the same but i think there may be better examples (so jojo may understand) to give like: the abuse of children. punching the perpetrator will not solve the underlying issue, which is the cycle of violence in general.
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Violence per se is bad
But there is a time for violence .
If a girl ( or guy for that matter) feels that her well-being is being threatened by her partner, if the partner is acting physically aggressive and she feels that she could be in real danger of getting hurt by him, then yes please fight back, and better get first strike if possible. Scratch, punch, kick, whatever. The purpose is to stun him and run - explain and talk later.
All this discourse about how violence is not the answer is all very fine and dandy, but useless if you have already been hit.
On the other hand, if violence is used as an outlet to vent frustration or childish way of manipulation, then that is definitely no-no. -
In this world, there are good and there are bad.Originally posted by Martinwolf:mmmm... i think jojo, you have to cut the public some slacks coz it's not fair for you to judge the collective by saying they are inefficient at handling things like BGR abuse or women being the victims. Its easy to say that, but when it comes down to the real thing does violence solve violence? I mean, have you tried asking for help when you were in your position before (sorry if this sounds like a personal question)
just my 2 cents
I don't complain about the good, why would I ?
The thing is, a victim is in a vulnerable position, instead of helping her and encouraging her, and to give her strenght , many people, yes even friends and family included , puts her to the stake and stoned her.
Now in such a society, no wonder too many victims remains in the shadow.
They cry silently in the corner, because too many who offered their righteous hands, slaps her in the face instead.
If you have read my previous post, yes, my retaliation ended his abuse. That is what made me realized I wasn't as helpless or weak as I thought.
When I no longer meekly lets him pull my hair.
When I no longer beg for mercy when he neck lock me.
When I no longer just cry when he pinched my flesh to bruises. -
hello.
this thread is not for ur smart arse debaters to show off ur debating skills.
can stick to the original topic can anot? -
It would be personal to everyone, not just for me.Originally posted by jojobeach:My apologies if you find it too personal for you.
Just needed to get that clear.
I agree with you and martinwolf. I shouldn't bring in Myanmar's regional politics into the discussion - but I just wanted to make my point clear. Myanmar oppressing, therefore also abusing their position of power.Originally posted by jojobeach:We are talking about a couple's fight. Why do you have to bring in International Politics ?
You want to lump everything together ?
To be honest, the uprising of Myanmar is long overdued.
If it takes violence to end oppressive violence, then so be it.
Freedom is never free.
The issue with Myanmar is overdue, yes I agree. And forever escalating into greater levels of violence, which is, in my opinion, a case of non-diplomatic and non-peaceful protests to an already violent regime. I respect your difference of opinion, but in my response to the debate, I advocate that violence does not end violence. It escalates it. I am forever concerned with the aftermath and the what-happens-next after the struggle to end violence by using violence.
As I said before, I personally feel the women is often the victim to both mental and physical abuse. This is because the man in a relationship is usually physically stronger, and therefore abusing his position of being capable to cause her harm. Why then violently act against him to escalate the situation further? Women are stronger because I also believe that women are more emotionally stable - less impulsive to resort to violent outburst and acting on impulse. This is why I always see that ANY abusive relationship where physical hurt is caused is wronged by the man. But if the women start doing the same I cannot understand how she is acting wisely or rightly.Originally posted by jojobeach:
I don't think friends or family will forsake her la. At least not always. But there are many other channels to consider that are not only effective, but has strong privacy laws intact: voluntary organisation, social services - at the most extreme - legal intervention. This are just a few of the many ways she could seek help.
[b]The thing is, a victim is in a vulnerable position, instead of helping her and encouraging her, and to give her strenght , many people, yes even friends and family included , puts her to the stake and stoned her. /b]
And IF and only IF she cannot find help in any of these channels, and violence is the ONLY answer, the very least she could do is ask a male friend to confront the guy (in a non-violent way at first) because I feel if she takes things into her own hands its unlikely abuse will stop. -
lol.. i think we are sticking to the original topic. its whether she was right in slapping her boyfriend, ie, whether violence was the appropriate response to verbal threat.Originally posted by Ito_^:hello.
this thread is not for ur smart arse debaters to show off ur debating skills.
can stick to the original topic can anot? -
Michaeled,
No one can say if the use of violence against violence is right or wrong, wise or unwise.
If the intended act of retaliation results in the end of an abuse.
How can you say it is wrong or unwise ?
There may be many channels for victims, the resources are there, no doubt.
But if you actually talks to victims of abuse, you realize many knows of such resources but are often too afraid or ashamed to use them. Their approach is one fraught with uncertainty and often fear of more retaliation from the abuser.
In our society, there are many who are silent victims, the position we need to adopt is one that encourages and helps draw those people out into the open arms of available help.
When it comes to family/friends not forsaking the victim. My dear, you are living in a much protected environment , I have to assume. -
I'm really glad it helped you jojobeach, and I am honestly encouraged by you - because society lacks women believing they can stand up for themselves against female abuse and oppression. It works, great. But I just feel its not good advice for someone else who may or may not be in the same position as you. After all, you may not know the extent and aftermath of all these different cases. The safe way (ie other channels for help) is not only wise, but it should be the first outlet for any resolution before taking any other steps. But even then, violence should only be the last of all. (or more ideally, none)Originally posted by jojobeach:If you have read my previous post, yes, my retaliation ended his abuse. That is what made me realized I wasn't as helpless or weak as I thought.
When I no longer meekly lets him pull my hair.
When I no longer beg for mercy when he neck lock me.
When I no longer just cry when he pinched my flesh to bruises. -
Court! All remain silent!!
Your boyfriend threatens that he want to pour hot water on you, he is wrong. But you slap him in his face then you also in the wrong. So both of you are wrong, I fine the two of you $10 for the action that you did. Faster come sigh a peace treaty in front of me and then shake hand to makes peace.
The treaty that make by me I will charge another $10. Make sure both of you will blind by the treaty you sign else I will call the police then the police will drive police car, pi po pi poÂ… come and catch you already Â…ha! ha! ha!
All the uncle and aunty that make noise here will also kana fine $5Â…kekeke!
and donÂ’t forget to pay the fines to me okÂ…muahahahaha
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How did you manage to escape from that mental hospital again?Originally posted by Mitell:Court! All remain silent!!
Your boyfriend threatens that he want to pour hot water on you, he is wrong. But you slap him in his face then you also in the wrong. So both of you are wrong, I fine the two of you $10 for the action that you did. Faster come sigh a peace treaty in front of me and then shake hand to makes peace. The treaty that make by me I will charge another $10. Make sure both of you will blind by the treaty you sign else I will call the police then the police will drive police car, pi po pi poÂ… come and catch you already Â…ha! ha! ha!
All the uncle and aunty that make noise here will also kana fine $5Â…kekeke!
and donÂ’t forget to pay the fines to me okÂ…muahahahaha -
shh... during the time when the security guard went tea breakOriginally posted by jojobeach:How did you manage to escape from that mental hospital again?
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Thank you for your support, it was many years ago. I've learnt my lessons well.Originally posted by Michaeled:I'm really glad it helped you jojobeach, and I am honestly encouraged by you - because society lacks women believing they can stand up for themselves against female abuse and oppression. It works, great. But I just feel its not good advice for someone else who may or may not be in the same position as you. After all, you may not know the extent and aftermath of all these different cases. The safe way (ie other channels for help) is not only wise, but it should be the first outlet for any resolution before taking any other steps. But even then, violence should only be the last of all. (or more ideally, none)
At the moment of threat, if all you think about is the aftermath, you will end up like me before, worried, scared, afraid of my own safety.
Ofcourse, I would advocate the use of institutionalized assistance, whenever possible.
Do you really expect Petti ( TS) to be dialing the numbers to those hot line and asking them for help, when her BF threatens her with hot water ?
She was acting on instinct. A self protective mechanism embedded in our nature. -
In whichever case, this statement would refute both our cases.Originally posted by jojobeach:Michaeled,
No one can say if the use of violence against violence is right or wrong, wise or unwise.
Oh, how many of them did you talk to?Originally posted by jojobeach:But if you actually talks to victims of abuse, you realize many knows of such resources but are often too afraid or ashamed to use them.
Its exactly what I meant!Originally posted by jojobeach:Their approach is one fraught with uncertainty and often fear of more retaliation from the abuser.
Fear from the retaliation from the abuser.
Which would breed more of such retaliation? Violence or talking to someone? Using violence would breed such fear. or such retaliation from happening. The more she should be afraid of such retaliation if she starts hitting him.
Exactly!Originally posted by jojobeach:In our society, there are many who are silent victims, the position we need to adopt is one that encourages and helps draw those people out into the open arms of available help.
Silent victims who can only resort to using violence. Which is why I say she should talk to family/friends/people.
I mean, we want her to open up to people, but at the same time we also want to believe that family/friends would help right? if not whats the use of asking her to come out.Originally posted by jojobeach:When it comes to family/friends not forsaking the victim. My dear, you are living in a much protected environment , I have to assume.
Protected environment? Yes. I respect my family and friends and love them and turn to them for help. I personally know people who've had relationship failure thanks to abuse, but receive help from talking to people. -
Michaeled,
You are doing selective reading.
I spoke to one too many victim of abuse.
No, if friends and family are such ideal outlet for those victims, then what is the use of institutionalized assistance for ? Victims are not orphans or social outcast ok ?
Yes, thank god you live in a cushy eggshell, most people don't. -
I understand, in fact, he sort-of deserve it. But she also asked if it was the right thing to do so, and to my mind, its not. What if her boyfriend went ahead and pour hot water on her? After all it might be argued that its in response to violence. She should do something positive about it of course, but something around the regions of a) breaking up, b) letting someone know. Anything acted on impulse is usually not thought-over. Sometimes we just need to control impulsive nature which may or may not cause more problem.Originally posted by jojobeach:Do you really expect Petti ( TS) to be dialing the numbers to those hot line and asking them for help, when her BF threatens her with hot water ?
She was acting on instinct. A self protective mechanism embedded in our nature.
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You are assuming Petti acts on impulse.Originally posted by Michaeled:I understand, in fact, he sort-of deserve it. But she also asked if it was the right thing to do so, and to my mind, its not. What if her boyfriend went ahead and pour hot water on her? After all it might be argued that its in response to violence. She should do something positive about it of course, but something around the regions of a) breaking up, b) letting someone know. Anything acted on impulse is usually not thought-over. Sometimes we just need to control impulsive nature which may or may not cause more problem.
I believe in such situation, people's mind would tend to have assessed the immediate risk factor and initiate the response based on the calculated outcome.
In time of danger, our minds works faster than you would believe.
If Petti's bf is holding a knife, you can bet your life on it, her response would be very different. -
It really depends on what was behind the slap
"my boyfriend said he will splash the cup of hot water at my face, and i slapped him. am i wrong? "
Scenario: Did petti slap him because she felt upset and disappointed? Then she is in the wrong.
Scenario: Was boyfriend moving towards the kitchen to get hot water or other dangerous tools while making statement? Then she was doing it in self-preservation, to preempt any harm from coming to her, and the slap is justified. She should have done it to throw bf off, and she should have ran off after that.