Life after discharged bankruptcy
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Originally posted by mancha:
A credit card as a great saving tool is a delusion. It is a great spending tool.
If I timed my purchases/spending after the billing date, I can delay payment for about one and a half months. But I eventually have to pay. In full. How much difference the one and a half months can make. A tinyest of a tinny bit, that is only if I don't have the current cc bill to pay for previous purchases.
Taking advantage of discounts isn't savings, it is spending, get that clear, you do not save save save by buying buying buying.
Only the retailer, industrialist, investor could benefit from credit/loans, and then they need to be successful in their venture to be able to repay and reap a profit as well. But a consumer, to save by spending on credit is a fallacy.
Anyway credit cards discounts, are sometimes available to the public too, not honoured by merchants, mostly not taken up by card holders. You save the entire cost of the goods/services by not making the purchase at all.
Yeap it isn't a great saving tool. That why it is called a credit card but there are some marginal benefits for owning a credit card that one can take advantage of.
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There's more important issue to curb than worrying about a credit card .
If u're matured enough , get yourself a house first , then the bank would ever consider your application .
U got no house , bank want to chase u money , where to get u ?
Go and think la ... so simple !
No wonder u land yourself in such a bad state .
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If you had a gun lying before you, and you used it to shoot an individual of your dislike, can you claim that "the gun made you do it" and without it, you would have otherwise not shot the victim?
To IMMEDIATELY make a link between credit card, debts and ill-spending seems to be a great fallacy.
To claim that a credit card is not a great saving tool by virtue of its name may be to associate money with spending.
I am essentially arguing that the smart use of credit cards, coupled with your ability to treat it like a debit card (in that you make all payments immediately or within the due month- both possible with internet banking) would allow a CC to be more a helper than hold you slave.
For the individual truly hard up on getting a line of credit, even without a CC, there is always the option to seek out the services of loansharks.
Look at the man, not the card.
...And when I talk about savings, I refer to the 20-25% seasonal savings / specials that one may get.
*This author uses Microsoft Money on a daily basis to track, manage and budget his finances and investments. So, unless you are as pro-active and/or disciplined in financial management matters, it would not be wise to use any of my above to create excuses for the application of credit lines.
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Originally posted by bleuwhale:
If you had a gun lying before you, and you used it to shoot an individual of your dislike, can you claim that "the gun made you do it" and without it, you would have otherwise not shot the victim?
To IMMEDIATELY make a link between credit card, debts and ill-spending seems to be a great fallacy.
To claim that a credit card is not a great saving tool by virtue of its name may be to associate money with spending.
I am essentially arguing that the smart use of credit cards, coupled with your ability to treat it like a debit card (in that you make all payments immediately or within the due month- both possible with internet banking) would allow a CC to be more a helper than hold you slave.
For the individual truly hard up on getting a line of credit, even without a CC, there is always the option to seek out the services of loansharks.
Look at the man, not the card.
...And when I talk about savings, I refer to the 20-25% seasonal savings / specials that one may get.
*This author uses Microsoft Money on a daily basis to track, manage and budget his finances and investments. So, unless you are as pro-active and/or disciplined in financial management matters, it would not be wise to use any of my above to create excuses for the application of credit lines.
Dude,
OBVIOUSLY, you are NOT a very savvy shopper. 20%-25% savings on limited participating retailers.. if you can find cheaper ones elsewhere.. should you insist on the 25% discount you get from the first store ? So if you purchase with a 25% "discount"..is that still SAVINGS ?????? Pwwweeees !!!
And OBVIOUSLY, you are using a sub card that's attached to your lao peh's credit card hor ?
You know what is annual fee anot ? You know how much is it ?
Your maths got a pass right ? Then you tell me, how much must you spend in order to breakeven the annual fee ?
Just because one uses a finance management tool means he is living within his own means?????..Now THIS is FALLACY!!
Credit card is just a convenient luxury. OK ? Good.
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Dearest Jojo.
With no intention to engage you any further for given your pattern of conduct in previous posts, I shall state that just because a credit card is a convenient luxury (for yourself) does not imply that it necessarily is so for every other individual. Likewise, just because you have friends who are gamblers does not imply that many other people are.
I travel between Singapore and the United States frequently. In the case of the USA, where I am based, I do pay for the annual card charge. I am pleased to say that as I consolidate my charges between 2-3 cards only, depending on the offers, and with one acting as a primary card, the rewards of, say, a return USA-Spore ticket on a yearly basis far outweighs the annual charges incurred. I am no longer in possession of any Singapore-issued credit cards give my lack of meaningful presence, calculated in terms of time spent, in Singapore.
I recall that AMEX Plat. card (Singapore) has an annaul charge of SGD$350 two years back. If you were to take into consideration the use and offers provided, there is no doubt that the annaul charge is reasonable.
Again, I have no further wish to debate Jojo who, in my humble opinion, and bless her soul, distorts every word that has been said by either myself or any other individual she conducts herself against in this forum. If I were to use her logic in rebutting her comments, I could easily say, in regard her opening remarks about savings, "sure, you can go to Malaysia or Indonesia or Thailand to get more cost savings" but to do so would not engage in meaningful discussions.
I respectfully withdraw from further engagging in this topic. After all, a card is only as good and as terrible as you, the individual, make it out to be. A credit card is as useful and cunning as Forex, Mutual Funds, For-Fee CPA / ChFC advicing, Stocks and the like may be. Its simply a tool that you can better from.
A car, domestic helper, pet, academic tutor, financial consultant, lawyer... may be luxuries to some. For others, if used and planned for wisely, may bring better returns than if otherwise not opted for.
Originally posted by jojobeach:Dude,
OBVIOUSLY, you are NOT a very savvy shopper. 20%-25% savings on limited retailers.. if you can find cheaper ones elsewhere.. should you insist on the 25% discount you get from the first store ? So if you purchase with a 25% "discount"..is that still SAVINGS ?????? Pwwweeees !!!
And OBVIOUSLY, you are using a sub card that's attached to your lao peh's credit card hor ?
You know what is annual fee anot ? You know how much is it ?
Your maths got a pass right ? Then you tell me, how much must you spend in order to breakeven the annual fee ?
Just because one uses a finance management tool means he is living within his own means?????..Now THIS is FALLACY!!
Credit card is just a convenient luxury. OK ? Good.
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I'm only own the bank less then 10k in the past now left with 1k plus... just taking my time to return.. at the sametime, save up allot during the past few years.
However, i was never charged of bankruptcy and settled my debts progressively without failed. But the damp thing was that, I can obtained a loan from bank when i wanted to buy a house or car even i have the cash. As for credit card. I have only one and 2 others were debits card which work really well when i travel. Likewise it helps to monital my cashflow. Dispited all these, my case were treated like as of i was a bankruptcy. This is how "flaxible" the policy were.. Just wanted to voice out!
As for now, going to overseas to work, stay, play and getting a PR will be my ultimate. Planning less then a year to reach there..
Cheers
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To TS, I agree that a Credit card has its uses.
And stock playing was gambling, irregardless of who else is trying to suggest its not.
Bleu has missed the point about gambling and the sg environment for legalised gambling. And Bleu, I liked to asked....did you asked your mother about that prostitute label yet? Or was it just your normal stereotyping about a female's commenting on the TS?
So for the record.
I am female, in debt too and facing bankruptcy. I've also live life, with credit cards paying for pubs, shopping & medical expenses. I've also lived with folks that dabbled in stocks, lost, owes lots of money, and still lives a hedonistic lifestyle.
I've also lived with family members that strived to get out of debt and believes in the cold hard cash thingy.
Bleu, its obvious you do not understand the sg environment anymore. And jojobeach, if I am not wrong, is trying to explain an American credit handling for sg.
But I can understand TS predicament. The roll the credit situations in the past, and the new tighter control about credit cards issuance is now not helping even for recovering bankrupt.
I understand that credit cards can still be obtained if you have a cold hard 10k cash in the bank account which you applied a credit card with so you might want to consider going that route to obtaining a credit card.
I wouldnt recommend it, but I really do understand how you will need it if you do constant travelling for work. Its a lifesaver at times.
For home loans, you might need another person, preferably a clean credit free spouse/family member to secure that home.
From a Singaporean kinda mindset, can I suggest instead that the TS consider that application of a credit card by plonking S$10k in a bank a/c which he/she agrees not to touch, as a collatoral just in case he/she needs the credit card while travelling. This can be arranged with the bank.
And in matters of home, with 6k pay, you really need to consider purchasing either a HDB flat or a really small apartment currently on soft launches now in the market.
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And oh....even with a HDB flat, consider renting out the rooms to help with the expanses.
For true privacies...nothing beats staying in Changi Chalet aka the changi prisons.
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Even good companies during prosperous times maintain credit lines so that they can draw on during an emergency.
Likewise, having a credit card doesn't necessarily put the person at risk of over-spending.
But sadly, the credit bureau here maintain a database of all users. Once you got a black mark, it's hard to erase. Perhaps you can speak to any of the personal bankers about your problem.
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Like the underwriters of insurance.
If you had pre cancer.
They consider you a high risk and barricade themself against you and load you down instead of helping you first.
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Dear Viciouskitty74.
There certainly is no doubt that I need not ask any female associate if they prositute themselves, simply by virtue of them being female. It is this loose association that I condemm and for which I do not see how certain individuals had allied. Just as it is wrong to imply that one is a gambler by virtue of his situation, it is wrong to imply that a female prostitutes herselve given her sex. But I am glad that the absurd nature of this association is impressed upon.
I do however apologize if I have given you or any others the impression of my demeaning of females.
As before, I do accept that credit cards as a means of line of credit is not desirable. I wish, again, to state that its benefits outweight should an individual be able to manage his finances properly and make full payments upon presentstion of bill.
Originally posted by viciouskitty74:To TS, I agree that a Credit card has its uses.
And stock playing was gambling, irregardless of who else is trying to suggest its not.
Bleu has missed the point about gambling and the sg environment for legalised gambling. And Bleu, I liked to asked....did you asked your mother about that prostitute label yet? Or was it just your normal stereotyping about a female's commenting on the TS?
So for the record.
I am female, in debt too and facing bankruptcy. I've also live life, with credit cards paying for pubs, shopping & medical expenses. I've also lived with folks that dabbled in stocks, lost, owes lots of money, and still lives a hedonistic lifestyle.
I've also lived with family members that strived to get out of debt and believes in the cold hard cash thingy.
Bleu, its obvious you do not understand the sg environment anymore. And jojobeach, if I am not wrong, is trying to explain an American credit handling for sg.
But I can understand TS predicament. The roll the credit situations in the past, and the new tighter control about credit cards issuance is now not helping even for recovering bankrupt.
I understand that credit cards can still be obtained if you have a cold hard 10k cash in the bank account which you applied a credit card with so you might want to consider going that route to obtaining a credit card.
I wouldnt recommend it, but I really do understand how you will need it if you do constant travelling for work. Its a lifesaver at times.
For home loans, you might need another person, preferably a clean credit free spouse/family member to secure that home.
From a Singaporean kinda mindset, can I suggest instead that the TS consider that application of a credit card by plonking S$10k in a bank a/c which he/she agrees not to touch, as a collatoral just in case he/she needs the credit card while travelling. This can be arranged with the bank.
And in matters of home, with 6k pay, you really need to consider purchasing either a HDB flat or a really small apartment currently on soft launches now in the market.
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I find the gambler question justified, because of the following:
a) TS admitted that he was bankrupt, due to stock trading 11 years ago. I believe my earlier post already mentioned that stock trading is 'gambling'.
b) 11 years ago, or even now. We still do not have casinos in sg. But underground gambling dens are still around. (i just had coffee & chicken rice with one such operator yesterday.) So I believed joj's definition of gambling involves rolling of credits, stocks. commodity trading and maybe even on trading business.
c) TS is not a youngster. Discharging the bankrupt, and now earning 6k a month is no mean feat. (Though I kinda think ts has the common asian mindset to exxaggerate his earnings.) :P And that is kinda a clue as to hwo the credit card may not be a matter of necessity but a mean to show off.
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
For true privacies...nothing beats staying in Changi Chalet aka the changi prisons.
haha...
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
I wouldnt recommend it, but I really do understand how you will need it if you do constant travelling for work. Its a lifesaver at times.If you are travelling on business trips. Companies will issue you a CORporate Credit card to charge your expenses to.
So, personal credit card.. is really.. just personal.
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Not really. Companies are shrewd nowdays. They may not issue corporate card unless you are a certain level or have a certain requirements to travel. And some countries & establishments does not accept certain corporate cards. ie. American Express Corporate Card are not accepted at some locations. And because of the high turnover of staff, lessor companies are willing to issue corporate cards to their eexecutives. Most now practise this way.....you are send overseas, they company booked for your hotel and maybe flight ticks. Then you claim the rest of the expenses, preferably with a credit card receipts. Or like what I did for a aviation mnc engineers. I had to get the engineers travelling to provide me a personal credit card, to book the hotels and so on. Have the engineer claim for the whatever later after they came back from the trip. And to provide for the engineers for some cash for their trip which is considered a loan from the company. And the engineers need to submit the receipts for the cashed used and the remainder cash returned to company upon their return from the trip. Another reason why corporate cards are not used, because personal credit cards has points system which individual credit card holder can later exchange for gifts. A good example will be this: ME & 10 collegues got a get-to-gether and ate to a tune of $800/-. One of us will whip out a credit card and pay for the dinners and later claim from the office the $800/- that $800 on a credit card converts to points for tat certain collegue which he/she can later redeem for soemthing else. And thus, all of us take turns whipping out credit cards for subsequent dinners get-to-gether.
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U must be 30-40 liao , get a gf and ask her to sub 1 card to u and if she can afford then ask her to buy a HDB and u pay all the reno and deposite.
Credit card is nothing nowadays, it's the housing Loan from HDB that u must die die get approval. Bank loan is NO NO to me.
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
Not really.
Companies are shrewd nowdays.
They may not issue corporate card unless you are a certain level or have a certain requirements to travel. And some countries & establishments does not accept certain corporate cards. ie. American Express Corporate Card are not accepted at some locations.
And because of the high turnover of staff, lessor companies are willing to issue corporate cards to their eexecutives.
Most now practise this way…..you are send overseas, they company booked for your hotel and maybe flight ticks. Then you claim the rest of the expenses, preferably with a credit card receipts.
Or like what I did for a aviation mnc engineers. I had to get the engineers travelling to provide me a personal credit card, to book the hotels and so on. Have the engineer claim for the whatever later after they came back from the trip.
And to provide for the engineers for some cash for their trip which is considered a loan from the company. And the engineers need to submit the receipts for the cashed used and the remainder cash returned to company upon their return from the trip.
Another reason why corporate cards are not used, because personal credit cards has points system which individual credit card holder can later exchange for gifts.
A good example will be this:
ME & 10 collegues got a get-to-gether and ate to a tune of $800/
. One of us will whip out a credit card and pay for the dinners and later claim from the office the $800/that $800 on a credit card converts to points for tat certain collegue which he/she can later redeem for soemthing else.
And thus, all of us take turns whipping out credit cards for subsequent dinners get-to-gether.
That sound so leh chey. And isn't claiming personal points on company expenses illegal ?
This company I'm working in. Our company has accounts with airlines , hotels and vehicle rental companies, we use our own traveling agent to make all booking arrangements under our company account. So all we need to do is just show up with the confirmation number and ID , all is taken care of.
I not sure how SG companies work.. but boy it sounds very backwards leh !
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Ok. who got a better lobang? i am thinking of refinancing my 3 room HDB. The current 4% interest is a killer.
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If ExxonMobil practises that. Who are we sg companies to argue? And ermmm.....there was a relevant case sometime ago, where a female director won a lucky draw at some companies lucky draw thingy and got a condo. She subsequently left the company but the company argued that the condo belongs to the company. There was a major legal wrangle and she lost the suit. But looking at it. If its not a condo but a piece of plastic tentage, do you think the company wants it back? And besides, I used to have corporate cards too. And the amount of credit allowed for it is pathetic.
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
And besides, I used to have corporate cards too. And the amount of credit allowed for it is pathetic.
I think it depends lah.
Mine is $20K max.. I don't think that's pathetic. do you ?
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I really appreciate for all the views that have been contributed. To put the matter straight;
1. NO. I'm not a gambler. I don't even buy 4D nor Toto. Neither do I speculate in stocks anymore. All my savings are in cold hard cash sitting in the bank or funds. The only vice I have is smoking and I don't even drink. How much more could I have spent?
2. I'm not exaggerating about my income. Infact, I make more than that. I was only down-playing the numbers for fear of being branded as exaggerating. If anyone can help me secure a housing loan, I don't mind showing him/her my past 3 years income tax assessment.
3. With my income level, I have already hit the HDB income ceiling. I am no longer qualified to buy a new or resale flat. By renting a place right now, doesn't mean I shouldn't plan to own one. Some said that I should save up enough to buy one. Taking a loan doesn't neccessarily means "using-other-peoples'-money". Have you ever calculated how long you need to save before you have $600K to buy a decent condo? How many people can afford to pay off a condo using cold hard cash? Even if you do, doing a proper investment would probably make more sense than paying all upfront. And as to compare paying rental every month to paying for the loan you made for your own housing, which do you think makes more sense?
4. Though I have savings, they are just insufficient to buy a condo off in cold hard cash. I'm not that rich. How much can I save within a year after my discharge? I still need to pay for my car rental, housing rental, etc. BTW, my car isn't a luxury item. It's a tool of trade.
5. Having a credit card doesn't mean that I'm being flashy or trying to show off. Neither does it mean that I do not know how to manage my money when I'm applying for a card after 1 year of discharge. People close enough to me roughly knows how much I earn.
When you are on a business trip, have you tried checking into a hotel without a credit card? Imagine having to stay in a 5 star hotel (dictated by company) for 2 weeks, you have to pay all these off in CASH! Do you bring that much cash with you when you travel? And the matter of fact is I have to travel frequently. And NO, I got declined even for a debit card application. How can it work even if I have collateral?
Do you realise how much convenience you get if you do use a credit card wisely? What Bleuwhale mentioned does hold water. I'm sure all the card holders out there got some benefits from their credit card in 1 way or another?
Have you tried buying something online and you can only pay via credit card? Have you tried making a reservation for hotel rooms or air-ticket without a credit card? Imagine bringing your client out for a $800 dinner and paying it up in cash, what would your client think? I'll not go into that..... The bottom line is, I need it as a tool of trade though I can still make do without it. Well, this ain't that important. I can still live without it. Nothing to cry over. BTW, not all companies issue corporate cards, and definitely not to every single employee. Viciouskitty74 made a good point about the corp card thingy. However, normally, you are not expected to use your corporate cards for personal expenses though you are liable to the charges.6. Money management. I may have done delinquent trading in the past, when I was young in my early 20s. That doesn't mean I don't have any money management abilities now. I have learnt my lesson well enough from the distress/pain I got. Also, having faulted when I was young doesn't mean nothing. I'll not go further into this detail..... It's a very subjective view for individuals.
Lastly.... please don't get into flaming session over this issue. :p I was only sharing out my problem, and hoping to see if someone else has gone through the same thing and could share with me how they got out of the situation rather than waiting.....
And of course, hoping that a banker sees this and a decides to help me out. Hahahaha.......