How to communicate with a ex-gangster sec2 educated?
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dun understand why u need to befriend him, he got beautiful sisters? or you wan to get sometin out from him?
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Parn: thanks. but I think you get me wrong. I just typing to stereotype people so that I can communicate with them.
In the past, the problem with me is that I talk too fast. I can shoot out too many facts like a bullet train. And people just get overwhelming and they feel inferior and try to get away from me (It only take me less than an hour to finish a 3 hour exam paper). People admire me but also fear me. So to correct this, I must slow down my speed of speaking and thinking to accommodate other people.
I don't really have negative opinions about him so far. He have given me some good impression so I bother to communicate with him
Yes I trying to say it, I get to know him based on my worldview, so how to break the barrier to get into his worldview. It is difficult but how to? The fact is that I know so little about these people and I don't know how to deal with them.
If you want to know this ex-convict, ex-criminal, ex-jailbird, ex-roti-kosong...and other blah blah blah......
First you must be prepared to be AGREEABLE with him and ignore your own opinions cos nobody is interested in it except for you yourself. Then you need to ACCEPT his opinions so that you can visualise a glimpse of his worldview and his situation and his past.
Find a common topic with him, if you really don't have any, then I really hate to advice you to talk about girls with him. I believed when two males meet togther for a chat, majority of that chat content would be about the opposite sex. Unless you're into those Broke Back Mountain nonsense, then you can look for Fantagf...cos HE will show you the way HOME.
If you find your new ex-murderer is not interested in a chat about the opposite gender, then I will strongly advise you to be on your way home ASAP!
BUT..........................................
Why do you need to know so much and befriend this ex-jailbird? Do you know what were his previous crimes?
What if he's an ex-rapist? Then he can't be trusted alone together with you and your family and maybe even your pets? They might all be devoured by him when you're not paying attention!
Don't say I never warn you and don't come and blame me later when your pets or any of your family members becomes pregnant unknowingly.....
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Originally posted by Lokey:
I hate this " tough love " program. I don't think sending a juvenile delinquent to boys home and hostel or whatever, help the person at all. i think it is a waste of time and it make them smaller and eventually affect their life and cannot carry on with it. A psychological scar that is hard to remove.
If I was being send to these places, I would react very violently. l am not someone that can control by force or instructions or whatever. I really will kill every one and tear the officers from limbs to limbs. no joke. I don't care if I exhaust myself or I get kill.
please do not misunderstand, as my nick suggest, "tough love" means love of the backside kind. I believe any form of imprisonment as punishment is useless. a zebra cannot lose its stripe.i support capital punisment (death sentence) for all crimes
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Heh about "People Fear and Admire Me". This is about other peoples' comments about me. Not my own ideas. People say I say that I speak too fast. And when they ask me about various topic I can tell them things in great great great details, a walking encyclopedia. To them it is like showing off knowledge, horrifying (How come you like know everything like that?). It is very fearful as I also experience the same feeling when I go for conferences.
Face the fact. I am an average Singaporean I know I am very direct here, I see no point in covering fact saying nice things when I am not.
Touch your heart and take off the mask and ask yourself if you have real good impression of these people.
The fact is they are different (at least most Singaporean might think so)
The fact is ....
Think why is there yellow ribbon project --> to waste tax payer money?
Think why is the TV shows showing ex-offender and ...
Do you know their IC is different from norm people?
I see that during BMT, they are always pumping in morning and night, while we slept in the bunk
Some NS officers just send them to DB when they do a little bit wrong things, no chance given.
Even their NS medical/personal records are different from norm
Do you know that some principals reject students who return from homes?
Some teachers just ignore them, send to home/hostel directly when discover they have association with gang, no chance given
Medical treatment/service for them is different, some doctors even reject patients?
Strange email from Changi prison, saying funny things at my desktop
Some lawyers reject their cases to reduce association with gang.
Public service don't hire them
There is nice question that ask "Are you an ex-offender?" in the job application.
Most managers reject hiring them.
Do you really feel comfortable when one is sitting next to you, and gazing at you?
So many so many....
I hate people who wear mask saying nice things when actually they are not. Thinking people cannot see the underlying fact.
The Singapore society is cruel. I have one of the most weird mail that I received from Changi Prison which I really don't know how to reply. Please how to communicate with these people to teach them how cruel the society is. People in the outside world is not KIND.
Whoever deals with them please also help.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
The fact is ....
Think why is there yellow ribbon project --> to waste tax payer money?
Think why is the TV shows showing ex-offender and ...
Do you know their IC is different from norm people?
I see that during BMT, they are always pumping in morning and night, while we slept in the bunk
Some NS officers just send them to DB when they do a little bit wrong things, no chance given.
Even their NS medical/personal records are different from norm
Do you know that some principals reject students who return from homes?
Some teachers just ignore them, send to home/hostel directly when discover they have association with gang, no chance given
Medical treatment/service for them is different, some doctors even reject patients?
Strange email from Changi prison, saying funny things at my desktop
Some lawyers reject their cases to reduce association with gang.
Public service don't hire them
There is nice question that ask "Are you an ex-offender?" in the job application.
Most managers reject hiring them.
Do you really feel comfortable when one is sitting next to you, and gazing at you?
So many so many....
I hate people who wear mask saying nice things when actually they are not. Thinking people cannot see the underlying fact.
The Singapore society is cruel. I have one of the most weird mail that I received from Changi Prison which I really don't know how to reply. Please how to communicate with these people to teach them how cruel the society is. People in the outside world is not KIND.
Whoever deals with them please also help.
Tsk tsk.. the yellow ribbon project.. is not to change them.. it is to change US the public.
To change the discrimination WE imposed on ex-cons.
To change the prejudice WE put on ex-cons.
To change the fear WE have of ex-cons.
Ex-cons.. just means they have paid for their mistakes.
Like that SG movie..
The court only sentence them to few years jail.
WE the public gave them a LIFE sentence !!!
The company I work for hires ex-cons. They are just human beings who made some bad choices in their past.. now most of them have their own family and they have paid their dues.
If you really want to push for the success of the yellow ribbon project... start working on yourself first.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Tsk tsk.. the yellow ribbon project.. is not to change them.. it is to change US the public.
To change the discrimination WE imposed on ex-cons.
To change the prejudice WE put on ex-cons.
To change the fear WE have of ex-cons.
Ex-cons.. just means they have paid for their mistakes.
Like that SG movie..
The court only sentence them to few years jail.
WE the public gave them a LIFE sentence !!!
The company I work for hires ex-cons. They are just human beings who made some bad choices in their past.. now most of them have their own family and they have paid their dues.
If you really want to push for the success of the yellow ribbon project... start working on yourself first.
Yes, it is true that the public has given them a life sentence but the topic is still about communicating to them. So, after the public has recognized that they are slightly different then they are able to accept them.
jojojeach: It would be good to give some tips on communicating with these people. What are the things they can take, what are the things they cannot accept. (I assume that you work with them)
Originally posted by jojobeach:Some of my thoughts
1. Ignore him completely because he is a low-level creature not worth the effort --> I was thinking that why the yellow project failed because the society treat ex-criminal as outcast. Should I follow the crowd?
2. Give him more time as these people are slow so to know him well, give him more time. How long do these people take to know each other to get to friend level? I only take a few ecounter I can treat him as a friend. But he humm.
3. Try to accommodate him as his language dictionary are limited --> so his speech is limited things therefore I don’t understand him but our communication already break down. I think he is someone worthy to know or befriend with so how I should solve this problem. Any ingenious idea? Thank you. Is there a book called "how to communicate with society outcast for dummy?
The interesting thing about this guy is that he read email but he don't reply to email. It is quite daunting for the sender as there is no feedback. I already told him that it is very rude not to reply to mail but he just does not listen. Somehow I doubt that "he know how to reply email ".
He has a msn messager account but he never log on, so how do I chat to him online?
The way he replied to mms from me is either "no reply" at all or a one word "NO". He did not even bother to explain why. If I treat him like my normal friends then I would have stop talking to him. But my guess is that due to his limited language ability. He would not answer things like "Sorry that I am on OT and not able to go gym tonight". However, anyone knows about his language ability do he really meant to be rude or he just don't know how to explain in long sentence?
Perhaps, they have too much bad experience in the past, so they are wary of strangers who approach them and appear to be friendly. Somehow they are always on guard and try to keep a distance. To make friends with them perhaps requires more patience than usual people. Else I would have ignore him already as he have appeared to be unfriendly and unapproachable.
I have been sending him some email, and I also doubt that he understand what I am saying. As the people HERE advice is that I should treat him like my same level, so I write as normal in full and long complete sentences. lol.
Somehow after talking to him, I feel that he is quite stubborn (he doesnt seems to be able to accept new concept that well), the way he thinks is also not very logical. How to reduce his stubbornness and teach him think logically. Speaking to him really make me vomit blood.
Sometimes, the way he speaks also very rude and rowdy, really make people feel uncomfortable. Would these people change the way they behave? If I treat him like a normal people, then I would have also stop talking to him.
Anyone there who understand them better can give me some ideas?
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Have you considered the possibility that he just doesn't like you and wants you to go away?
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Whoop out some drugs. International language. U dun even need to open ur mouth to talk. lol
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IMO, if u want to be a fren to someone, u hav to earn his trust. To earn his trust, u hav to BE IN HIS SHOES. Look at things in HIS perspectives, rather than FORCING him to accomdate YOUR style.
Secondly, ACCEPT who he is & wat he's made of. If he doesnt want to change, then be it. He's an adult, U are only an outsider, who r u to think u hav the ability to change him??
Above statements are made in consideration that u WANT to be his fren. If u find him not as good or u "hiam" him, then he'd probably be happier w/o u constanly humpin on his back.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Yes, it is true that the public has given them a life sentence but the topic is still about communicating to them. So, after the public has recognized that they are slightly different then they are able to accept them.
jojojeach: It would be good to give some tips on communicating with these people. What are the things they can take, what are the things they cannot accept. (I assume that you work with them)
The interesting thing about this guy is that he read email but he don't reply to email. It is quite daunting for the sender as there is no feedback. I already told him that it is very rude not to reply to mail but he just does not listen. Somehow I doubt that "he know how to reply email ".
He has a msn messager account but he never log on, so how do I chat to him online?
The way he replied to mms from me is either "no reply" at all or a one word "NO". He did not even bother to explain why. If I treat him like my normal friends then I would have stop talking to him. But my guess is that due to his limited language ability. He would not answer things like "Sorry that I am on OT and not able to go gym tonight". However, anyone knows about his language ability do he really meant to be rude or he just don't know how to explain in long sentence?
Perhaps, they have too much bad experience in the past, so they are wary of strangers who approach them and appear to be friendly. Somehow they are always on guard and try to keep a distance. To make friends with them perhaps requires more patience than usual people. Else I would have ignore him already as he have appeared to be unfriendly and unapproachable.
I have been sending him some email, and I also doubt that he understand what I am saying. As the people HERE advice is that I should treat him like my same level, so I write as normal in full and long complete sentences. lol.
Somehow after talking to him, I feel that he is quite stubborn (he doesnt seems to be able to accept new concept that well), the way he thinks is also not very logical. How to reduce his stubbornness and teach him think logically. Speaking to him really make me vomit blood.
Sometimes, the way he speaks also very rude and rowdy, really make people feel uncomfortable. Would these people change the way they behave? If I treat him like a normal people, then I would have also stop talking to him.
Anyone there who understand them better can give me some ideas?
We all know how much you want to be his friend.BUT
Does he want to be your friend or not?
After reading your comments on what you have done, I feel sorry for this ex-convict.
You should understand and back off cos it is extremely traumatic for anyone to have "friendship" forced upon them.
And I don't think it is right of you to force your "friendship" onto him. Ex-convicts are also human and they have the rights to say "NO" to your "friendship".
Out of curiousity, What do you want out of this friendship anyway? And Why is it necessary for you to befriend this ex-convict?
There is something you are not telling us about and I don't like it.
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Originally posted by gunner77:
go another gym
that, my friend, was easily the easiest solution here
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u is mentally challenged owat.
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Originally posted by SBS7484P:
that, my friend, was easily the easiest solution hereya lor
so easy also need to talk so much
not happy then go another gym, common sense will tell you that.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Have you considered the possibility that he just doesn't like you and wants you to go away?
Yes that is the first thing I thought of. And I am fine with that if he does not want to make friend with me. So far all the people that I have met in this gym are friendly and very kin to exchange ideas and pointers. So this guy's reluctance actually make him the "odd" guy, which make him a outcast, irregardless of his background. So the conclusion would then be that this person chosen to be the society outcast and not the society has outcast him. Then this guy would still be as hopeless as before and has never changed.
Join a gym, is like joining a club, community, by befriending him, we welcome him to our community. It is like going to a club house, one would meet the same regulars and we greet each other and ask how r u?
It is quite natural: that a new kid join a new class, the class would welcome him and try to talk and make friends with him. But if he reject the offer. The classmates will learn that this guy is odd and humm you know the rest. And it would sad story.
Hello, I have one hundred and one thing to do. If he does not want friendship then it is fine with me. In fact, he is the one who will lose out as I believe that not many people like me would bother to even look at him. He can remain his way, remain his lifestyle and do whatever he want and stay the same state as it is.
Actually, I already mention in earlier post. "About why I want to make friends with him". One thing is that I find this person can be worthy enough to consider as trusted friend. The other is that if I don't learn how to understand them, how to make policy and create action/act/move to deal with them.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Yes that is the first thing I thought of. And I am fine with that if he does not want to make friend with me. So far all the people that I have met in this gym are friendly and very kin to exchange ideas and pointers. So this guy's reluctance actually make him the "odd" guy, which make him a outcast, irregardless of his background. So the conclusion would then be that this person chosen to be the society outcast and not the society has outcast him. Then this guy would still be as hopeless as before and has never changed.
Join a gym, is like joining a club, community, by befriending him, we welcome him to our community. It is like going to a club house, one would meet the same regulars and we greet each other and ask how r u?
It is quite natural: that a new kid join a new class, the class would welcome him and try to talk and make friends with him. But if he reject the offer. The classmates will learn that this guy is odd and humm you know the rest. And it would sad story.
Hello, I have one hundred and one thing to do. If he does not want friendship then it is fine with me. In fact, he is the one who will lose out as I believe that not many people like me would bother to even look at him. He can remain his way, remain his lifestyle and do whatever he want and stay the same state as it is.
Actually, I already mention in earlier post. "About why I want to make friends with him". One thing is that I find this person can be worthy enough to consider as trusted friend. The other is that if I don't learn how to understand them, how to make policy and create action/act/move to deal with them.
i find you ironic.. you said you got one hundred and one thing to do but it seems you want the whole world to know who you are and recognised you as a super nice guy.
Now, this new guy come into gym, don't even give a damn about you, and you are sore.. plain sore. My advice, give him space. If he wants to know you, the great one, he will come over, else, do the logical thing, go exercise..
Just curious, how do you know this person to be worthy enough to be a trusted friend, when you can't even get into a decent conversation? and the fact is you already judged him by labelling him a ex-gangster and etc?
lastly, I do believe you are in the gym to exercise and not be a "social butterfly", right?
No offense meant.
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cb lah.
me go gym is to wk out.
not to go mk new frds wif eberi ah gao ah niao thr.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
So far all the people that I have met in this gym are friendly and very kin to exchange ideas and pointers. So this guy's reluctance actually make him the "odd" guy, which make him a outcast, irregardless of his background.
Not to be picky, but that's supposed to be "keen" and "regardless" respectively. I'm not pointing this out for the fun of it - you've hitherto written about how intelligent and educated you are in relation to others around you, and what I've highlighted here clearly puts that into question. Perhaps taking a reality check would be a good move towards devloping a clearer understanding of your circumstances and how that impacts upon your relationships with other people. To put it bluntly, you're demonstrating an inflated sense of self-worth, and that could well make you an unpleasant person to deal with.
Originally posted by Lokey:So the conclusion would then be that this person chosen to be the society outcast and not the society has outcast him. Then this guy would still be as hopeless as before and has never changed.
Join a gym, is like joining a club, community, by befriending him, we welcome him to our community. It is like going to a club house, one would meet the same regulars and we greet each other and ask how r u?
It is quite natural: that a new kid join a new class, the class would welcome him and try to talk and make friends with him. But if he reject the offer. The classmates will learn that this guy is odd and humm you know the rest. And it would sad story.
If that's his choice, who are you to say that it's wrong for him?
Originally posted by Lokey:Hello, I have one hundred and one thing to do. If he does not want friendship then it is fine with me. In fact, he is the one who will lose out as I believe that not many people like me would bother to even look at him. He can remain his way, remain his lifestyle and do whatever he want and stay the same state as it is.
Again, who are you to make the choice for him? Also, I wonder if you appreciate the irony of you being free enough to tell people how busy you are.
Originally posted by Lokey:Actually, I already mention in earlier post. "About why I want to make friends with him". One thing is that I find this person can be worthy enough to consider as trusted friend. The other is that if I don't learn how to understand them, how to make policy and create action/act/move to deal with them.
Perhaps he doesn't find you worthy.
Also, whose policy are you making? Society's in general? Your own? Even your use of the phrase "deal with them" reflects how you frame things in terms of a power structure with yourself on top.
Frankly, you've demonstrated that you've got plenty of your own problems to deal with instead of minding other people's business.
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Thank you all, for your help
Just talk a friend who is a psychologist during lunch, her advice is for me to leave him alone and best to stay far from him especially when not show signs that he wants to befriend a person. Even if he wants to befriend a person, it is best to stay far away. These people are very dangerous and especially when they are smart too. One would never predict what, how, when he would misbehave. Just be wary of such people and she herself may not have full confidence in handling them. Dangerous.
Psychological disorder can be genetic and/or nurtured, a complex composition of both. If it is genetic then there is really no complete cure, other than drugs. No hope.
Friends cannot be made long term with them. Trust cannot be given because one would never knew...
After talking to her, my face turn white.
I really want to sequence his genome, but I should just be wary of him now.
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u shld seek psychological help for urself too.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Thank you all, for your help
Just talk a friend who is a psychologist during lunch, her advice is for me to leave him alone and best to stay far from him especially when not show signs that he wants to befriend a person. Even if he wants to befriend a person, it is best to stay far away. These people are very dangerous and especially when they are smart too. One would never predict what, how, when he would misbehave. Just be wary of such people and she herself may not have full confidence in handling them. Dangerous.
Psychological disorder can be genetic and/or nurtured, a complex composition of both. If it is genetic then there is really no complete cure, other than drugs. No hope.
Friends cannot be made long term with them. Trust cannot be given because one would never knew...
After talking to her, my face turn white.
I really want to sequence his genome, but I should just be wary of him now.
Moderator! Please close the topic!. And best if you can delete this thread!
Thank again everyone for your help..
I'm curious about what kind of psychologist your friend is. I'm a registered psychologist, and professionally I would certainly never have told you what she did.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt here - it's possible that she said something entirely different and that you've reported what you think you heard.
You want to sequence his genome?! After all that talk about you wanting to save him from being an outcast, you're looking at him as a specimen under a microscope? Just who the hell do you think you are?
Bugger violent criminal tendencies - I'm a law-abiding fellow and I'd love to kick seven shades of shit out of you.
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dun tell me u beliv him hor?
dat is his imaginary frd lah.
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At the rate he's going, all of his friends are imaginary.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Thank you all, for your help
Just talk a friend who is a psychologist during lunch, her advice is for me to leave him alone and best to stay far from him especially when not show signs that he wants to befriend a person. Even if he wants to befriend a person, it is best to stay far away. These people are very dangerous and especially when they are smart too. One would never predict what, how, when he would misbehave. Just be wary of such people and she herself may not have full confidence in handling them. Dangerous.
Psychological disorder can be genetic and/or nurtured, a complex composition of both. If it is genetic then there is really no complete cure, other than drugs. No hope.
Friends cannot be made long term with them. Trust cannot be given because one would never knew...
After talking to her, my face turn white.
I really want to sequence his genome, but I should just be wary of him now.
Moderator! Please close the topic!. And best if you can delete this thread!
Thank again everyone for your help..
THIS IS DISCRIMINATING!A professional & ethical psychologist would NEVER do tat. Ur morals & thinkings are seriously doubtful. I shall not waste my time replyin tis thread again.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
Thank you all, for your help
Just talk a friend who is a psychologist during lunch, her advice is for me to leave him alone and best to stay far from him especially when not show signs that he wants to befriend a person. Even if he wants to befriend a person, it is best to stay far away. These people are very dangerous and especially when they are smart too. One would never predict what, how, when he would misbehave. Just be wary of such people and she herself may not have full confidence in handling them. Dangerous.
Psychological disorder can be genetic and/or nurtured, a complex composition of both. If it is genetic then there is really no complete cure, other than drugs. No hope.
Friends cannot be made long term with them. Trust cannot be given because one would never knew...
After talking to her, my face turn white.
I really want to sequence his genome, but I should just be wary of him now.
Moderator! Please close the topic!. And best if you can delete this thread!
Thank again everyone for your help..
Ya......Genetic Gangster.....your friend and you are equally dumb and retarded.Now I know why both of you are friends and why you believed in her nonsense.
Genetic Gangster is it come genetically from those Ah Beng-Dinosaurs?
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
I'm curious about what kind of psychologist your friend is. I'm a registered psychologist, and professionally I would certainly never have told you what she did.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt here - it's possible that she said something entirely different and that you've reported what you think you heard.
You want to sequence his genome?! After all that talk about you wanting to save him from being an outcast, you're looking at him as a specimen under a microscope? Just who the hell do you think you are?
Bugger violent criminal tendencies - I'm a law-abiding fellow and I'd love to kick seven shades of shit out of you.
+ noted I did not give the details of his behaviour.
he smile when he talk to people. he can talk about his past. he can used email, note how to reply, but lied to me that he never check his mail and purposely dont want to reply. Sometimes he can be extremely aggressive, his face turn like octopus. he can mms long message with explaination, sometimes he just say "no" or no reply at all. he say start to talk about things to me but sometimes he say I dont know you. He call me a stranger after knowing him for 6 months. But days later when I meet him he start to talk about his personal problem. Sometimes, he is very friendly, sometimes he is unfriendly. I catch no ball. He lied to me about his past because everytime I speak to him the details is sightly different. I can tell that he is very smart. I feel that I am talking to 2 persons at different time, one-friendly and one-unsociable. I collected my thoughts, I think that he is actually playing me around. He lied and his words are not consistent. I thought I knew him, but also hardly understand him. I cannot find consistence in him and cannot pinpoint his personality and character. one hand he like to talk about his past, on the other hand he say please respect my privacy. Frankly, I dont know what he want. Plus his violent and dangerous history. I can tell that after 6 months, I dont know he wants and I cant tell if he is still dangerous.
Everyone "can' be dangerous, so the best solution is just to stay away. Which is a good solution. Why bother to talk to someone when he does not "bother to talk" to you. This is a logical solution. + I dont even know he want to make friends with me in this first place.
Maybe my friend, mean a different thing, whatever, I just need to know "Just leave him alone"
Just leave it to the professional. They can tell and diagnosis. I am not a professional in this field, not a social worker, so why should I bother about him.
My friend say I am insane, why I go and spend time for his guy when I have hardly time for lunch with her.
go pubmed to search, I got no time for this ASPD, CD, APD thingy.
there is an upcoming field in biological psychology which I am of interest. Can do collobration if interested.