1/4 life crisis - Tired, frustrated and lost
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Originally posted by Jerjoe:
I don't know, I could be overreacting. I took engineering out of interest and because I was really good at it. Unfortunately, I feel that this isn't working out as I had planned , hence my rant about not having any "reliable" plan. It is to some extent poor foresight I do not deny.
Yes unemployment is bad. I don't expect sky high salary. In fact, if a reputable US company offered me no pay internship to work on some thing over summer, I would devour it just so I could have more things to put on my resume. At least something to build on. As an engineer, the opportunities you have in Sg are significantly fewer compared to many places in the world.
My family isn't doing business but my father is doing quite well in his position, at least to me. Even if he were a business owner, I wouldn't want to rely on nepotism nor would he allow it either I would like to think. However, like I said, we still have bills to pay and I would still like to make good return based on what I was given.
You have made it sounds very bad, I dont think is that bad. People dont want to hire you because you write you are taking a master is it? I dont think is that difficult to get a job, in US or Singapore.
A few months ago, my ex-supervisor is still offering me a position because he cannot find any other suitable people in Singapore. And it is a computer engineering position.
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probably you could state which field of engineering were u in?
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Originally posted by Yunhaier:
You are someone I would claim as a 'thinker';
but before you decide that this is a complement, I would tell you
that it's more of a comment/observation. I will explain why.If we have to divide people into two extreme personalities, in this dichotomy of life, it would be 'thinkers' and 'doers'. The former depict people who think (only), but the latter refers to people who do (only). Naturally, most people fall in between. Problems usually arise from those who are nearer to these extreme points.
You are decapitated by your thoughts to such extend that you are basically immobile. Although you might have decent academic background, the crux of your plight lies with your selection process. Although you are right to say that you don't mind working as an intern for as long as it is a prospective company, this is precisely the problem here - many company may not be as 'prospective' as you deemed it would be, which you might probably eliminate. To worsen your deal, you lacked the necessary working experience - so companies are reluctant to hire (even intern), especially since times are difficult.
I will reframe it into something simpler - you want a deal that is good for you in the long term and the path you have 'planned' for yourself is rigidity linear and fixed. Even as a civil servant (in which our garmen would likely to hire you, considering your relatively impressive academic background), you consider it 'bad' in the long run. For someone who has been unemployed for 4 years - frankly, this 'bad' in the long run is still irony a 'good' now.
Beggars can't be choosers.
Your thinking disabled you totally. To make matter even worst, because your family is well-to-do, the incentive to find a job isn't as urgent. Yes, you might talk about ROI, but everything else is still stable, so what's the urgency unless it derives from self?
Learn to ride the donkey while you seek for the horse. You can't always be waiting for the glorious stallion to pass by you before you take a leap. Your attitude towards life synonymously reflects your situation in love - your fear of 'risk/lost' is masked by fortifying yourself in this ivory tower of intellectual retreat, analyzing from an apex, which you feel safe from the noisy rumbles of the world below your view. You comfort yourself with the thinking that you 'have the whole picture' but the truth is that your 'full picture' is the real distortion of the 'real picture'.
For once, learn to do first and think later.
Cheers
I like the way you have reframed the situation that I'm in, especially the part "Your thinking disabled you totally." I couldn't have put it better myself. Because of the thoughts that I have, alot of what I'm doing or trying to do has been quite badly affected. Its pretty much paralysed me for the last couple months. Alot of my friends have tried to convince me but as much as even I dish out advice to others, I'm having huge problems overcoming the distorted illusion myself. Maybe the first step is recognising it for what it really is.
The urgency would come from the "thinking" part of me. Sure, the world isn't going to crumble down on me if I do nothing but its also not reason enough to sit back and passively follow where ever life takes me. I've tried my best to compensate for this lack of a big-name-company internship on my resume by fighting for every obscure chance that came by way in my undergraduate years. This was why I interned in a different place every year. However, inspite of this, I couldn't get any further. That's life I guess.
I've listened to what a few of the posters have said here and I'm feeling a little better and my thoughts are alittle clearer now I hope. In terms of a "plan of action", I think I may assist my roommate when he goes back to Sg in the summer. He's working to optimise NUH operations and since at this point I don't have a much better alternative anyway, I will likely go with it even though I will not be compensated.This outcome is not much different from the last 4 years. Actually I was compensated all the times before so there is some difference. Also, in this case, I'm feeling alot more depressed. My only hope is when I graduate for real at the end of my masters this year, things will be different.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
You have made it sounds very bad, I dont think is that bad. People dont want to hire you because you write you are taking a master is it? I dont think is that difficult to get a job, in US or Singapore.
A few months ago, my ex-supervisor is still offering me a position because he cannot find any other suitable people in Singapore. And it is a computer engineering position.
I'm not quite sure to be honest. I can only reason that with the recession, the engineering field has been even more badly affected. In the US, I had some interviews as an undergraduate but now as a masters student, I've not had a single response. The only reason I found an internship in Sg last year was because a fellow student's mum was working in that company and was looking to fill temporary positions. This case was special as she knew how good my engineering school was and basically based the entire interview on email exchanges. Apart from that alot of internet applications to sg companies basically fall into a black hole, at least from my own experience. This is unfortunately the only means I have of applying from the US.
I'm surprised that he can't find a CE person. I'd imagine that would be a pretty popular field in Sg but I may be mistaken.
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Originally posted by dangerboi:
probably you could state which field of engineering were u in?
I omitted that to try to retain some anonymity. The last thing I want is for people to find out who I am and to start worrying about me but since I'm already at this point I might as well say. I did my undergraduate in Mechanical and subsequently switched to Industrial & Operations in masters.
I tried to reposition myself after my undergraduate, as after 3 years, I realised that my degree was not getting me anywhere in terms of job/internship prospects and opportunities. Ind & Ops was the most logical choice given the synergy it shares with mechanical and its wider applicability.
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Originally posted by Yunhaier: You are someone I would claim as a 'thinker'; but before you decide that this is a complement, I would tell you that it's more of a comment/observation. I will explain why.
If we have to divide people into two extreme personalities, in this dichotomy of life, it would be 'thinkers' and 'doers'. The former depict people who think (only), but the latter refers to people who do (only). Naturally, most people fall in between. Problems usually arise from those who are nearer to these extreme points.
You are decapitated by your thoughts to such extend that you are basically immobile. Although you might have decent academic background, the crux of your plight lies with your selection process. Although you are right to say that you don't mind working as an intern for as long as it is a prospective company, this is precisely the problem here - many company may not be as 'prospective' as you deemed it would be, which you might probably eliminate. To worsen your deal, you lacked the necessary working experience - so companies are reluctant to hire (even intern), especially since times are difficult.
I will reframe it into something simpler - you want a deal that is good for you in the long term and the path you have 'planned' for yourself is rigidity linear and fixed. Even as a civil servant (in which our garmen would likely to hire you, considering your relatively impressive academic background), you consider it 'bad' in the long run. For someone who has been unemployed for 4 years - frankly, this 'bad' in the long run is still irony a 'good' now.
Beggars can't be choosers.
Your thinking disabled you totally. To make matter even worst, because your family is well-to-do, the incentive to find a job isn't as urgent. Yes, you might talk about ROI, but everything else is still stable, so what's the urgency unless it derives from self?
Learn to ride the donkey while you seek for the horse. You can't always be waiting for the glorious stallion to pass by you before you take a leap. Your attitude towards life synonymously reflects your situation in love - your fear of 'risk/lost' is masked by fortifying yourself in this ivory tower of intellectual retreat, analyzing from an apex, which you feel safe from the noisy rumbles of the world below your view. You comfort yourself with the thinking that you 'have the whole picture' but the truth is that your 'full picture' is the real distortion of the 'real picture'.
For once, learn to do first and think later.
Cheers
good advice
READY, FIRE, AIM :)
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Originally posted by Jerjoe:
I like the way you have reframed the situation that I'm in, especially the part "Your thinking disabled you totally." I couldn't have put it better myself. Because of the thoughts that I have, alot of what I'm doing or trying to do has been quite badly affected. Its pretty much paralysed me for the last couple months. Alot of my friends have tried to convince me but as much as even I dish out advice to others, I'm having huge problems overcoming the distorted illusion myself. Maybe the first step is recognising it for what it really is.
The urgency would come from the "thinking" part of me. Sure, the world isn't going to crumble down on me if I do nothing but its also not reason enough to sit back and passively follow where ever life takes me. I've tried my best to compensate for this lack of a big-name-company internship on my resume by fighting for every obscure chance that came by way in my undergraduate years. This was why I interned in a different place every year. However, inspite of this, I couldn't get any further. That's life I guess.
I've listened to what a few of the posters have said here and I'm feeling a little better and my thoughts are alittle clearer now I hope. In terms of a "plan of action", I think I may assist my roommate when he goes back to Sg in the summer. He's working to optimise NUH operations and since at this point I don't have a much better alternative anyway, I will likely go with it even though I will not be compensated.This outcome is not much different from the last 4 years. Actually I was compensated all the times before so there is some difference. Also, in this case, I'm feeling alot more depressed. My only hope is when I graduate for real at the end of my masters this year, things will be different.
be flexible and open to options.
when you feel paralysed by your thoughts, get off the butt and do something.
do you have other passion besides engineering ? there are many roads to rome. where is rome ? is engineering the "end" (destination) or is it a means to an end ?
a crisis is an opportunity to explore what else is possible (in you and in the world), and to redefine the vision for yourself.
just some food for thought.
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Originally posted by luvcfood:
be flexible and open to options.
when you feel paralysed by your thoughts, get off the butt and do something.
do you have other passion besides engineering ? there are many roads to rome. where is rome ? is engineering the "end" (destination) or is it a means to an end ?
a crisis is an opportunity to explore what else is possible (in you and in the world), and to redefine the vision for yourself.
just some food for thought.
Passion besides engineering? You mean something that else I can be employed to do or just pastimes. During the semester, I hardly have time aside from exams and homework (urgh American education system). When I have time, I do play sports and as I mentioned I help to run one of my university's sports clubs. I cook whenever I can too. I would think that those may count as other "passions" of mine lol. Sorry about the intentional vagueness. Was that what you're refering to?
Hmm what else is possible is in fact a great question. I'm out of genuinely good ideas but there are some not so good ones I know.
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Originally posted by Jerjoe:
Passion besides engineering? You mean something that else I can be employed to do or just pastimes. During the semester, I hardly have time aside from exams and homework (urgh American education system). When I have time, I do play sports and as I mentioned I help to run one of my university's sports clubs. I cook whenever I can too. I would think that those may count as other "passions" of mine lol. Sorry about the intentional vagueness. Was that what you're refering to?
Hmm what else is possible is in fact a great question. I'm out of genuinely good ideas but there are some not so good ones I know.
Well, think out of the box. A good job need not necessary be one which is within your interests, or which you had thought of before.
Keep your eyes peeled for opportunities on the web and on job advertisements now and then, you may just find a good job which suits you.
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Hello Jerjoe,
I can totally "feel" you as I think I have the exact qualifications as you (MS Eng, no extremely strong set of skills, not a PhD person, comes from strong Engineering school, took on debts to come to USA to study)
I was only slightly luckier because I found a job right before the 2008 financial crisis. What I can tell you is that the unemployment figure in US now is 10-13% and that actually means that 20-30% of americans are unemployed. For further understanding, google and find out how they calculate employment figures in US. What's more, the companies that shed the most jobs are those in the tech industry. So you can expect 3~5 out of 10 technically-trained people who are unemployed. Do not underestimate the situation. US is sitting on trillions of dollars of debt and that financial disaster in 08 has costed them alot.
The reason why you cannot find a internship chances in Tech companies because the only companies that hire international students are large tech firms (of course some biz/consultancy hires MBA/LLM) AND right now they are not generous at training international students at all. Why would if they have a large stock of unemployed American workers/students in a political situation dominated by the Democratic Party? Also, large banks can no longer hire international students due to the kind of agreement they have with the federal govt for the bailout. Yea, as much as American claims to take in immigrants all over the world, they need to protect their own people in tough times unless you are really brilliant which you have already identify yourself not to be.
The next bad news for you is: (sorry for being negative but I need to drive in the facts to you) most international non-PhD students who can easily find jobs in US are those in EE, Com Sci, IT/IS/etc, Finance (used to), Pharmacy, Chem Engine. Reason: Just look for those companies that sponsor H1B visa. Most of them are in these areas.
You doubted if your Masters degree has degraded your chances at employment. To be honest, your masters and mine are merely paper qualifications without research background. Yes MS (whatever) is prestigious but not quite useful in a recession. You only have chances at entry-level jobs due to the fact that you do not have any relevant experience. If I am not mistaken, you have followed the coursework only masters plan. Ask yourself, what is the difference between you and your friends who are working now? You only accumulated more textbook knowledge.The only masters degree that is markedly different is the one that comes with a strong research thesis. That may qualify you for a more senior position if you have spent that period in a research assistant position which is to employers relevant work experience. Hence, by upgrading our qualifications to Masters, we put ourselves in direct competition with everyone: Bachelor's, PhDs, and Masters. This fact was slammed hard at me and I never had good feelings of that extra money I spent on my masters.
Another feel-good factor you might have butter yourself with is your conservation skills. The reason why you have thought that interviewers thought well of you is because they expected you not to be fluent at all. Also ask yourself, will American do better conversing in their interviews? Obviously they do. You will be amazed at their interviews if you sat in one. And Indians too? They are well-known to devote alot of time and effort to interviews. Don't compare yourself to chinese and non-english speaking people. Compare yourself with the best then you can correctly benchmark yourself. I put myself at a 6 when it comes to conversations skills. Luckily, technical skills are more important for an engineer in my area.
If you have been to a engineering company before, they hire engineers based on the number of projects they have concurrently and only hire if they have shortage of resources.My company sort of took in twice the number of internships this year and I was assigned to train two American engineering juniors from Berkeley. Last year, I was assigned to train a Taiwanese student. There's a marked difference right now in the employment market. Is there a shift to favor local americans instead? I don't know but you can make your own judgement. When I looked at the resumes of the two interns, they had really relevant experience and near perfect GPA (much much better than mine when I got my job). I came to realize that now, an Ivy-League or Big-Ten degree is no longer a qualifying ticket to a technical job in the US. The other trend I noticed is that the number of China-born Chinese and India-born Indians in undergraduate programs have jumped many folds. That has created a lot of competition in engineering jobs. This is something that did not happen when I was in Bachelor's. For example, I only had a few Chinese friend when I was in the Bachelor's program but when I went back to my school's to recruit students, I saw almost 1/4 to 1/3 of the class population are chinese/indian. For info, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/education/16international-.html. In the near future, non-PhD non-IT no-EE non-researcher international students may need legitimacy in their background (green card minimum) and previous relevant training. Why? It's just plain competitive compared to 5 years ago and the US market has not grown so much to absorb the demand.
My advice for you is to return to Singapore to seek opportunities because the internship recruitment period is all but over. We did our interviews in late February. As you know in US, no USA internship = no future job. To be honest, I think it's really hard for you to find a job in US in the future. Like you mentioned yourself, you have to be responsible to the debts incurred and start seeking other forms of opportunities back in Singapore. It is not a step back but a step forward (in life).
However, don't worry for the immediate impact of the debts you incurred and try to think more "long-term" issues ahead. I personally think that you have to accept that your luck is not exactly good and the situation is really changing in US when it comes to engineering prospects.I understand that you have put in 200k-ish into your Bachelors+Masters but it is an investment that you will stand to enjoy the branding benefits in the future even though you may not be able to find work in the US. Also wages in the US are not as high as you think it will be. My friend who is working in the civil service in Singapore is drawing close to what I am drawing now. Even though I get ard 80K usd a year, I have to service my debts and also pay for housing etc. It's not rosy as you think.The only good things that comes with work in US are benefits (green cards, great health care, better technical experiences, no NS callbacks, weather, more recreational stuff, cheaper cars). If you understand how things work in Singapore, you can do very well and get as much as u do in US. So, in a nutshell, try to think how you can recoup the 200k in the long term rather than in the short term. Also, the key question to ask yourself is: Do you actually need the green card? And why? Prestige? To migrate?
Actually right now, I am facing lots of pressure at my work to perform at a very high level or face elimination. I need to keep my job so I can get my green card in a couple of year's time. Can I keep my job for another 3 years? I am not sure myself but I am doing my best to prove my value to the company and impress everyone I work with. I also network a lot with people outside my company so I have backup chances when I am removed. I definitely had a lot of thoughts to what I can do when I get my green card and that includes returning to Singapore for better opportunities. So don't think that returning to SG is a shameful thing. In fact, I think it's a great background for me because lots of US MNCs are based in Singapore. Also I am very grateful to the bilingual education I received in Sg. It opened several more doors for me. The only set back is the NS system which took away 2 years of my life.
Take care and be positive! Don't even think of killing yourself. It's the dumbest thing you can ever do to yourself and imagine how your parents will feel about it. I think you are a smart guy but you need to really start moving forward.
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saw this on hardwarezone..
u already wasted 200,000 usd? or sgd?
cut ur losses and come back to sg la....... usa doesnt want u but sg need engineers like you..did u go to usa just for the $$$ factor.. obviously its not so easy there loh.. seems like u focus too much on the study side and it seems like ur chances of getting a job in usa is 0 in the bad economy there now
your dream -> be an engineer in US
reality -> US jobless rate is up and ur degree is not so in-demand
action -> come back to singapore? or still waste more time in usa?if u r a strong engineer, you will earn as much as USA engineers in future why bother staying in usa?
be strong bro
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FYI - i personally know of a china-born engineer who studied in the US, ran a R&D company there for many years, and has now decided to relocate permanently back to china. his son (born and bred in US) did a post-grad degree in a chinese university, not a US university.
even westerners are looking at asia for jobs. why are your eyes still fixated on the west ?
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Originally posted by Jerjoe:
Passion besides engineering? You mean something that else I can be employed to do or just pastimes. During the semester, I hardly have time aside from exams and homework (urgh American education system). When I have time, I do play sports and as I mentioned I help to run one of my university's sports clubs. I cook whenever I can too. I would think that those may count as other "passions" of mine lol. Sorry about the intentional vagueness. Was that what you're refering to?
Hmm what else is possible is in fact a great question. I'm out of genuinely good ideas but there are some not so good ones I know.
don't under-estimate other passions if any. times like this require a little entrepreneurial spirit and creative thinking. there are people who are forced by circumstances to spurn another means of livelihood through passions other than their "main" one.
but i think you are probably not at that stage yet. perhaps "survival" is not yet your concern and you can still afford to choose ...
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Originally posted by XenDan:
Hello Jerjoe,
I can totally "feel" you as I think I have the exact qualifications as you (MS Eng, no extremely strong set of skills, not a PhD person, comes from strong Engineering school, took on debts to come to USA to study)
I was only slightly luckier because I found a job right before the 2008 financial crisis. What I can tell you is that the unemployment figure in US now is 10-13% and that actually means that 20-30% of americans are unemployed. For further understanding, google and find out how they calculate employment figures in US. What's more, the companies that shed the most jobs are those in the tech industry. So you can expect 3~5 out of 10 technically-trained people who are unemployed. Do not underestimate the situation. US is sitting on trillions of dollars of debt and that financial disaster in 08 has costed them alot.
The reason why you cannot find a internship chances in Tech companies because the only companies that hire international students are large tech firms (of course some biz/consultancy hires MBA/LLM) AND right now they are not generous at training international students at all. Why would if they have a large stock of unemployed American workers/students in a political situation dominated by the Democratic Party? Also, large banks can no longer hire international students due to the kind of agreement they have with the federal govt for the bailout. Yea, as much as American claims to take in immigrants all over the world, they need to protect their own people in tough times unless you are really brilliant which you have already identify yourself not to be.
The next bad news for you is: (sorry for being negative but I need to drive in the facts to you) most international non-PhD students who can easily find jobs in US are those in EE, Com Sci, IT/IS/etc, Finance (used to), Pharmacy, Chem Engine. Reason: Just look for those companies that sponsor H1B visa. Most of them are in these areas.
You doubted if your Masters degree has degraded your chances at employment. To be honest, your masters and mine are merely paper qualifications without research background. Yes MS (whatever) is prestigious but not quite useful in a recession. You only have chances at entry-level jobs due to the fact that you do not have any relevant experience. If I am not mistaken, you have followed the coursework only masters plan. Ask yourself, what is the difference between you and your friends who are working now? You only accumulated more textbook knowledge.The only masters degree that is markedly different is the one that comes with a strong research thesis. That may qualify you for a more senior position if you have spent that period in a research assistant position which is to employers relevant work experience. Hence, by upgrading our qualifications to Masters, we put ourselves in direct competition with everyone: Bachelor's, PhDs, and Masters. This fact was slammed hard at me and I never had good feelings of that extra money I spent on my masters.
Another feel-good factor you might have butter yourself with is your conservation skills. The reason why you have thought that interviewers thought well of you is because they expected you not to be fluent at all. Also ask yourself, will American do better conversing in their interviews? Obviously they do. You will be amazed at their interviews if you sat in one. And Indians too? They are well-known to devote alot of time and effort to interviews. Don't compare yourself to chinese and non-english speaking people. Compare yourself with the best then you can correctly benchmark yourself. I put myself at a 6 when it comes to conversations skills. Luckily, technical skills are more important for an engineer in my area.
If you have been to a engineering company before, they hire engineers based on the number of projects they have concurrently and only hire if they have shortage of resources.My company sort of took in twice the number of internships this year and I was assigned to train two American engineering juniors from Berkeley. Last year, I was assigned to train a Taiwanese student. There's a marked difference right now in the employment market. Is there a shift to favor local americans instead? I don't know but you can make your own judgement. When I looked at the resumes of the two interns, they had really relevant experience and near perfect GPA (much much better than mine when I got my job). I came to realize that now, an Ivy-League or Big-Ten degree is no longer a qualifying ticket to a technical job in the US. The other trend I noticed is that the number of China-born Chinese and India-born Indians in undergraduate programs have jumped many folds. That has created a lot of competition in engineering jobs. This is something that did not happen when I was in Bachelor's. For example, I only had a few Chinese friend when I was in the Bachelor's program but when I went back to my school's to recruit students, I saw almost 1/4 to 1/3 of the class population are chinese/indian. For info, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/education/16international-.html. In the near future, non-PhD non-IT no-EE non-researcher international students may need legitimacy in their background (green card minimum) and previous relevant training. Why? It's just plain competitive compared to 5 years ago and the US market has not grown so much to absorb the demand.
My advice for you is to return to Singapore to seek opportunities because the internship recruitment period is all but over. We did our interviews in late February. As you know in US, no USA internship = no future job. To be honest, I think it's really hard for you to find a job in US in the future. Like you mentioned yourself, you have to be responsible to the debts incurred and start seeking other forms of opportunities back in Singapore. It is not a step back but a step forward (in life).
However, don't worry for the immediate impact of the debts you incurred and try to think more "long-term" issues ahead. I personally think that you have to accept that your luck is not exactly good and the situation is really changing in US when it comes to engineering prospects.I understand that you have put in 200k-ish into your Bachelors+Masters but it is an investment that you will stand to enjoy the branding benefits in the future even though you may not be able to find work in the US. Also wages in the US are not as high as you think it will be. My friend who is working in the civil service in Singapore is drawing close to what I am drawing now. Even though I get ard 80K usd a year, I have to service my debts and also pay for housing etc. It's not rosy as you think.The only good things that comes with work in US are benefits (green cards, great health care, better technical experiences, no NS callbacks, weather, more recreational stuff, cheaper cars). If you understand how things work in Singapore, you can do very well and get as much as u do in US. So, in a nutshell, try to think how you can recoup the 200k in the long term rather than in the short term. Also, the key question to ask yourself is: Do you actually need the green card? And why? Prestige? To migrate?
Actually right now, I am facing lots of pressure at my work to perform at a very high level or face elimination. I need to keep my job so I can get my green card in a couple of year's time. Can I keep my job for another 3 years? I am not sure myself but I am doing my best to prove my value to the company and impress everyone I work with. I also network a lot with people outside my company so I have backup chances when I am removed. I definitely had a lot of thoughts to what I can do when I get my green card and that includes returning to Singapore for better opportunities. So don't think that returning to SG is a shameful thing. In fact, I think it's a great background for me because lots of US MNCs are based in Singapore. Also I am very grateful to the bilingual education I received in Sg. It opened several more doors for me. The only set back is the NS system which took away 2 years of my life.
Take care and be positive! Don't even think of killing yourself. It's the dumbest thing you can ever do to yourself and imagine how your parents will feel about it. I think you are a smart guy but you need to really start moving forward.
Hi XenDan,
:/ I typed out a reply and somehow lost it when I tried to reply but here's the jist of what I said. I agree with alot of the things you mentioned. I'm not so sure about the political effect on big tech company hiring policies but I'm certainly feeling the lack of engineering opportunities. I would in fact further narrow the "employable" fields to just Computer Science engineering, banking and consulting. The only chem engineer I know who got a job here went into banking (through his dad's connections). I realized this midway into my undergrad and somewhat regret taking this path.
I'm certainly aware things are not as rosy as some make it out to be and that the internship hiring period is long long over.The H1B sponsorship (I don't really need/want a green card) has pretty much dropped by 75% and yes alot of companies that used to sponsor no longer do so. It also seems to have affected internships which is the first problem for me. Since I switched majors for masters, I'm focusing mostly on learning as you say. I actually worked as research assistant in my undergraduate, through spring/summer and during school for almost a year, paid and unpaid. It just seems that employers seem abit adverse to students who seemed to have taken a more "academic" route in their work experiences, even if it was very relevant. I worked more as a design/prototyping engineer as compared to a laboratory assistant. A couple of prototypes that I build from scratch are being refined by the research group and will probably be patented some time in future. My undergrad gpa is near perfect for a top college program that does not inflate grades. I don't know if thats good or brilliant any more as I've beaten myself up too much about not getting an internship/job. Its just that they would gladly hire someone else with just one internship with a big name company even if they'd been there for barely 3 months (what could you accompish?). I've thought about the Phd route but the lull in earnings for 5-6 years is just something I can't afford right now. Being mentored by my young prof who graduated from MIT and has tons of funding is on face value an excellent opportunity but I'm just not cut out for a Phd, practicality aside.
I've had alot of feedback on my interviews. I used to actively seek it as well. There have been quite a few times I've had to remind recruitors that I'm not a US citizen and would need sponsorship as they tend to keep falling into the assumption that I am one. I usually take it to mean that I'm doing a good job. I know there is always a bias that other nationalities can't speak english well and that I out performed that expectation. However, I've also been interviewed by quite a few who had less than perfect english, usually Indian/Midde Eastern PRs or first gens. As you get past the HR people and progress further into the later rounds, they tend to be more open and honest with you, especially if you meet those who you could potentially work with directly. Ultimately, I think communication would come in secondary to having specific knowledge sets for a position / having a big name internship / having a US citizenship/PR. I'm still working to improve on whatever I can.
If I may ask, why do you "need" a green card (ignore if this is too sensitive a question)? If you are Singaporean, H1B1 should keep you around for as long as you want, so long as you have a job in the US I guess. I still think that from an Engineer's standpoint, there is no doubt that US>>Singapore. My theory is this probably stems from the costs difference and popularity of getting an engineering degree in either country. You can look at it from take home pay after taxes, cost of living, job satisfaction, job variety, etc. I've done a fair bit of analysis and I think its quite safe to say this (assuming one gets the job).
You're quite accurate in describing the influx of foreigners in US universities. In one of my classes, 95% are chinese/indian and probably among the brightest as well. This has made things very difficult for me academically. While doing Mech, I more than held my own but since going into Indus, my lack of foundation knowledge has hampered my performance. I'm taking it as a learning experience. In terms of job searching, I feel that most Chinese want to do a masters/phd before returning, whereas the Indians are desperate to stay. They are essentially in the same boat as me except that I like to think I can communicate better. Returning to Sg, leaves me no different from having gone to say NUS or NTU, except with this "branding".
I'm very disillusioned with this 200+k worth of "branding" and honestly do feel it was a very poor investment, maybe even cheated. Most of the $$ goes into research funding and what I have is no more than a overpriced piece of decorated paper like coe. It also only matters on the first job generally. In my case, its seems like it won't even matter at this rate as I'm probably headed for grunt work that won't use my knowledge.
I'm finding it very hard to feel positive, since other facets of my life aren't doing that great either. I think I'll stay my hand that would be taking my life for now as I do think about what my parents would do/how they would feel if I did it. That is truly the only reason that's keeping me alive.
Good luck with your green card. I sincerely want that to work out for you.
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Originally posted by Krvine:
saw this on hardwarezone..
u already wasted 200,000 usd? or sgd?
cut ur losses and come back to sg la....... usa doesnt want u but sg need engineers like you..did u go to usa just for the $$$ factor.. obviously its not so easy there loh.. seems like u focus too much on the study side and it seems like ur chances of getting a job in usa is 0 in the bad economy there now
your dream -> be an engineer in US
reality -> US jobless rate is up and ur degree is not so in-demand
action -> come back to singapore? or still waste more time in usa?if u r a strong engineer, you will earn as much as USA engineers in future why bother staying in usa?
be strong bro
I didn't post this on hardwarezone, so maybe someone copied it. Or there is someone else just like me.
I've spent approx 200k usd. Yes the reality is I'm gonna have to return to Sg by law pretty much after this year. "if u r a strong engineer, you will earn as much as USA engineers in future why bother staying in usa?" I respectfully disagree with this statement. I could elaborate further on why but its too long an analysis. Those who have worked as an Engineer in US and Sg will understand my point to some extent.
I'm not so sure about Sg needing engineers either. I've found very few positions available for internships. For those that I have applied, my application is probably floating in no mans land. At least in US, they mostly take the time to send you an email telling you that you've been rejected instead of leaving you in limbo. In terms of full time jobs, there has been some growth with Exxon, renewable energy and some aero sectors but they've been quite small developments compared to the larger engineer talent pool. I believe a poster already mentioned earlier what prospects he faced in Sg as an Engineer.
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hey, even though you may not get an ideal job now, if you start on something, it may eventually lead you near to where you wanted to be or even better - through the contacts and opportunities you pick up along the way. what seems like a loss now may actually turn out to be a gain. i know you don;t see it this way now, but life works out in its strange ways.
i'm not in your line, so i can't give any specific "advice". however i do sincerely wish you the best. don't think of taking your life lah... life is precious. who knows, some months from now, the macro-environment will change in your favour.
good luck !!
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Originally posted by luvcfood:
hey, even though you may not get an ideal job now, if you start on something, it may eventually lead you near to where you wanted to be or even better - through the contacts and opportunities you pick up along the way. what seems like a loss now may actually turn out to be a gain. i know you don;t see it this way now, but life works out in its strange ways.
i'm not in your line, so i can't give any specific "advice". however i do sincerely wish you the best. don't think of taking your life lah... life is precious. who knows, some months from now, the macro-environment will change in your favour.
good luck !!
In regards to your earlier post, I guess I can't help but be fixated in some way since I am doing my degree here and the employment opportunities that come my way are in the US of course. I do keep my options open in Sg for sure. About your friend/collegue from China, I must commend him for what he has accomplished. A few years ago, I actually spent my spring and summer in Shanghai, 2 months working in Baogang which is a steel manufacturer (one of the largest in the world actually). I am to a small extent knowledgeable about working as an engineer in China and it is far from a walk in the park. Many with a basic degree can't get a job/internship since the field is oversaturated. That is why most try to get a masters if not a phd before attempting a job search. I needn't remind you that alot of things in china are based on "guan xi". This is even more so.
Its true - "survival is not a concern" *yet*. Like I told another poster, if it really comes down to it, I will do any job I can find. My machining/hand tooling skills while a little rusty, are still pretty good. I would no doubt lose "alot of face" among friends and family but at least I'm going somewhere. haiz...
Life does work in strange ways and maybe what I really need now is just a break. Thanks for your concern.
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:/ I typed out a reply and somehow lost it when I tried to reply but here's the jist of what I said. I agree with alot of the things you mentioned. I'm not so sure about the political effect on big tech company hiring policies but I'm certainly feeling the lack of engineering opportunities. I would in fact further narrow the "employable" fields to just Computer Science engineering, banking and consulting. The only chem engineer I know who got a job here went into banking (through his dad's connections). I realized this midway into my undergrad and somewhat regret taking this path
The reason why US employers are not hiring as much as they did is because the engineering economy is not growing and even China is not consuming enough US engineered products. Yeah they will buy coke, burgers, a cheap laptop and a Boeing plane or two. Microsoft only earned 6 million usd in china and google just left the market. Cisco faces very strong competition in china too. All the movies don't even make money in China with their rampant piracy. In US, IT is still growing and you can really tell from twitter, flickr, facebook in recent years. My personal analysis is that things are going downhill further even though many people are pinning their hopes on the green energy thing. Green technology is not exactly advanced technology but more of a extension of each branch of science and engineering. For example, as a result of the need for alternative fuel sources, solar cells are now being used widely in EE and corn ethanol in biochem engineering. Unfortunately, it's not a disruptive technology like computers, internet, cars, aeroplanes and will not create much wealth for the americans other than the energy-related industries. I am very pessimistic about the US economy and the job market so much that I am quite jittery at every feedback I received at work. If you have any idea about the big asset bubble in China, you will lose half a head of hair. If that bubble pop, we are going to see a real depression in all parts of the world especially in Singapore because a lot of our sg banks are exposed to their environment. Let's hope not.
It's not too late to consider a career switch to banking if you have the know-how and connections. For example, if you have a b/millionaire relative or some celebrity friends. I believe that you are a smart, attractive and elouquent person. If you think Engineers earn too little in Singapore, switch to banking where there is a demand for talents like you. However, be very careful this time with your career planning because banking jobs are very susceptible to the economy and the job market is not that rosy like in 2008. The question to ask yourself is: Do you want to be a banker? There are many types too and I'm sure if you do a simple search online, you can find out what areas they are.
I'm certainly aware things are not as rosy as some make it out to be and that the internship hiring period is long long over.The H1B sponsorship (I don't really need/want a green card) has pretty much dropped by 75% and yes alot of companies that used to sponsor no longer do so. It also seems to have affected internships which is the first problem for me. Since I switched majors for masters, I'm focusing mostly on learning as you say. I actually worked as research assistant in my undergraduate, through spring/summer and during school for almost a year, paid and unpaid. It just seems that employers seem abit adverse to students who seemed to have taken a more "academic" route in their work experiences, even if it was very relevant. I worked more as a design/prototyping engineer as compared to a laboratory assistant. A couple of prototypes that I build from scratch are being refined by the research group and will probably be patented some time in future. My undergrad gpa is near perfect for a top college program that does not inflate grades. I don't know if thats good or brilliant any more as I've beaten myself up too much about not getting an internship/job. Its just that they would gladly hire someone else with just one internship with a big name company even if they'd been there for barely 3 months (what could you accompish?). I've thought about the Phd route but the lull in earnings for 5-6 years is just something I can't afford right now. Being mentored by my young prof who graduated from MIT and has tons of funding is on face value an excellent opportunity but I'm just not cut out for a Phd, practicality aside.
It seems like you were PhD material and could have choose to go on to complete an free Ivy league PhD in Mech engineering since you were top in that department. It's a waste really. You seem to be under a lot of pressure to produce economic value and I totally understand that because probably Singaporean you see has a job waiting for them in Singapore and many americans can secure jobs easily. Your education was paid by a private bank loan or your parents are funding it?If I may ask, why do you "need" a green card (ignore if this is too sensitive a question)? If you are Singaporean, H1B1 should keep you around for as long as you want, so long as you have a job in the US I guess. I still think that from an Engineer's standpoint, there is no doubt that US>>Singapore. My theory is this probably stems from the costs difference and popularity of getting an engineering degree in either country. You can look at it from take home pay after taxes, cost of living, job satisfaction, job variety, etc. I've done a fair bit of analysis and I think its quite safe to say this (assuming one gets the job).
H1B doesn't give you any job mobility. If you are under H1B from a certain company, it is not possible to switch companies with the legal complications and if you are fired you will most likely not be in time to file for H1B the same year and you have to go back home. Green card is also for enriching your next generation and extended family. You can put your children through the best colleges using federal financial aid and be assured that they have a future in this country because they are not F1 students like the rest. Of course, if you have the green card, you can invest freely in their stock markets without any restrictions and enjoy many benefits (7k if you buy a house, with social security you will have free health insurance after you are retired, unemployment benefits etc etc depending on which state you are in). If I had served NS for USA instead of Singapore, I will have alot of additional benefits as well but too bad for us.You're quite accurate in describing the influx of foreigners in US universities. In one of my classes, 95% are chinese/indian and probably among the brightest as well. This has made things very difficult for me academically. While doing Mech, I more than held my own but since going into Indus, my lack of foundation knowledge has hampered my performance. I'm taking it as a learning experience. In terms of job searching, I feel that most Chinese want to do a masters/phd before returning, whereas the Indians are desperate to stay. They are essentially in the same boat as me except that I like to think I can communicate better. Returning to Sg, leaves me no different from having gone to say NUS or NTU, except with this "branding".
It used to be quite different when the computer/IT/semiconductor industry started its boom in late 90s and early 2000s and there was a shortage of engineers. If you asked those Asian engineers in their 30s, they aren't really from the top universities like we are. One of my ex-Indonesian engineering manager was from Arizona State University and he just got his US citizenship. However, it's quite different now. I doubt any international student from ASU can even get an internship as a janitor in the tech companies. The chinese aren't really expressive people unless you know them well. I doubt anyone will want to go back to their country if they are offered a job to stay here. Where else can you get $70-100K USD for an engineering job? Chinese engineers earn less than $20k a year. It's all plain economics.I'm very disillusioned with this 200+k worth of "branding" and honestly do feel it was a very poor investment, maybe even cheated. Most of the $$ goes into research funding and what I have is no more than a overpriced piece of decorated paper like coe. It also only matters on the first job generally. In my case, its seems like it won't even matter at this rate as I'm probably headed for grunt work that won't use my knowledge.
Don't be. I know how you feel. I was jobless for 1 month before I got my interview with my current company and that was exactly how I felt. I started feeling shitty in my last semester in the school because most of my "scholar" friends went back and immediately take up senior officer positions in the civil service. Their facebook pictures were always about eating at nice places, clubbing with hot girls and new cars etc. I remembered I deactivated my facebook for quite a long while because I can't bear to watch others bask in their excesses while I hang by a thread.I'm finding it very hard to feel positive, since other facets of my life aren't doing that great either. I think I'll stay my hand that would be taking my life for now as I do think about what my parents would do/how they would feel if I did it. That is truly the only reason that's keeping me alive.
It's time to be stronger. The toughest time will be very helpful towards your character development. Be stronger and hope that opportunities pop up in Fall or in Singapore if you are going back in the summer. You never know. -
Originally posted by XenDan:
:/ I typed out a reply and somehow lost it when I tried to reply but here's the jist of what I said. I agree with alot of the things you mentioned. I'm not so sure about the political effect on big tech company hiring policies but I'm certainly feeling the lack of engineering opportunities. I would in fact further narrow the "employable" fields to just Computer Science engineering, banking and consulting. The only chem engineer I know who got a job here went into banking (through his dad's connections). I realized this midway into my undergrad and somewhat regret taking this path
It's not too late to consider a career switch to banking if you have the know-how and connections. For example, if you have a b/millionaire relative or some celebrity friends. I believe that you are a smart, attractive and elouquent person. If you think Engineers earn too little in Singapore, switch to banking where there is a demand for talents like you. However, be very careful this time with your career planning because banking jobs are very susceptible to the economy and the job market is not that rosy like in 2008. The question to ask yourself is: Do you want to be a banker? There are many types too and I'm sure if you do a simple search online, you can find out what areas they are.The reason why US employers are not hiring as much as they did is because the engineering economy is not growing and even China is not consuming enough US engineered products. Yeah they will buy coke, burgers, a cheap laptop and a Boeing plane or two. Microsoft only earned 6 million usd in china and google just left the market. Cisco faces very strong competition in china too. All the movies don't even make money in China with their rampant piracy. In US, IT is still growing and you can really tell from twitter, flickr, facebook in recent years. My personal analysis is that things are going downhill further even though many people are pinning their hopes on the green energy thing. Green technology is not exactly advanced technology but more of a extension of each branch of science and engineering. For example, as a result of the need for alternative fuel sources, solar cells are now being used widely in EE and corn ethanol in biochem engineering. Unfortunately, it's not a disruptive technology like computers, internet, cars, aeroplanes and will not create much wealth for the americans other than the energy-related industries. I am very pessimistic about the US economy and the job market so much that I am quite jittery at every feedback I received at work. If you have any idea about the big asset bubble in China, you will lose half a head of hair. If that bubble pop, we are going to see a real depression in all parts of the world especially in Singapore because a lot of our sg banks are exposed to their environment. Let's hope not.
I'm certainly aware things are not as rosy as some make it out to be and that the internship hiring period is long long over.The H1B sponsorship (I don't really need/want a green card) has pretty much dropped by 75% and yes alot of companies that used to sponsor no longer do so. It also seems to have affected internships which is the first problem for me. Since I switched majors for masters, I'm focusing mostly on learning as you say. I actually worked as research assistant in my undergraduate, through spring/summer and during school for almost a year, paid and unpaid. It just seems that employers seem abit adverse to students who seemed to have taken a more "academic" route in their work experiences, even if it was very relevant. I worked more as a design/prototyping engineer as compared to a laboratory assistant. A couple of prototypes that I build from scratch are being refined by the research group and will probably be patented some time in future. My undergrad gpa is near perfect for a top college program that does not inflate grades. I don't know if thats good or brilliant any more as I've beaten myself up too much about not getting an internship/job. Its just that they would gladly hire someone else with just one internship with a big name company even if they'd been there for barely 3 months (what could you accompish?). I've thought about the Phd route but the lull in earnings for 5-6 years is just something I can't afford right now. Being mentored by my young prof who graduated from MIT and has tons of funding is on face value an excellent opportunity but I'm just not cut out for a Phd, practicality aside.
It seems like you were PhD material and could have choose to go on to complete an free Ivy league PhD in Mech engineering since you were top in that department. It's a waste really. You seem to be under a lot of pressure to produce economic value and I totally understand that because probably Singaporean you see has a job waiting for them in Singapore and many americans can secure jobs easily. Your education was paid by a private bank loan or your parents are funding it?If I may ask, why do you "need" a green card (ignore if this is too sensitive a question)? If you are Singaporean, H1B1 should keep you around for as long as you want, so long as you have a job in the US I guess. I still think that from an Engineer's standpoint, there is no doubt that US>>Singapore. My theory is this probably stems from the costs difference and popularity of getting an engineering degree in either country. You can look at it from take home pay after taxes, cost of living, job satisfaction, job variety, etc. I've done a fair bit of analysis and I think its quite safe to say this (assuming one gets the job).
H1B doesn't give you any job mobility. If you are under H1B from a certain company, it is not possible to switch companies with the legal complications and if you are fired you will most likely not be in time to file for H1B the same year and you have to go back home. Green card is also for enriching your next generation and extended family. You can put your children through the best colleges using federal financial aid and be assured that they have a future in this country because they are not F1 students like the rest. Of course, if you have the green card, you can invest freely in their stock markets without any restrictions and enjoy many benefits (7k if you buy a house, with social security you will have free health insurance after you are retired, unemployment benefits etc etc depending on which state you are in). If I had served NS for USA instead of Singapore, I will have alot of additional benefits as well but too bad for us.You're quite accurate in describing the influx of foreigners in US universities. In one of my classes, 95% are chinese/indian and probably among the brightest as well. This has made things very difficult for me academically. While doing Mech, I more than held my own but since going into Indus, my lack of foundation knowledge has hampered my performance. I'm taking it as a learning experience. In terms of job searching, I feel that most Chinese want to do a masters/phd before returning, whereas the Indians are desperate to stay. They are essentially in the same boat as me except that I like to think I can communicate better. Returning to Sg, leaves me no different from having gone to say NUS or NTU, except with this "branding".
It used to be quite different when the computer/IT/semiconductor industry started its boom in late 90s and early 2000s and there was a shortage of engineers. If you asked those Asian engineers in their 30s, they aren't really from the top universities like we are. One of my ex-Indonesian engineering manager was from Arizona State University and he just got his US citizenship. However, it's quite different now. I doubt any international student from ASU can even get an internship as a janitor in the tech companies. The chinese aren't really expressive people unless you know them well. I doubt anyone will want to go back to their country if they are offered a job to stay here. Where else can you get $70-100K USD for an engineering job? Chinese engineers earn less than $20k a year. It's all plain economics.I'm very disillusioned with this 200+k worth of "branding" and honestly do feel it was a very poor investment, maybe even cheated. Most of the $$ goes into research funding and what I have is no more than a overpriced piece of decorated paper like coe. It also only matters on the first job generally. In my case, its seems like it won't even matter at this rate as I'm probably headed for grunt work that won't use my knowledge.
Don't be. I know how you feel. I was jobless for 1 month before I got my interview with my current company and that was exactly how I felt. I started feeling shitty in my last semester in the school because most of my "scholar" friends went back and immediately take up senior officer positions in the civil service. Their facebook pictures were always about eating at nice places, clubbing with hot girls and new cars etc. I remembered I deactivated my facebook for quite a long while because I can't bear to watch others bask in their excesses while I hang by a thread.I'm finding it very hard to feel positive, since other facets of my life aren't doing that great either. I think I'll stay my hand that would be taking my life for now as I do think about what my parents would do/how they would feel if I did it. That is truly the only reason that's keeping me alive.
It's time to be stronger. The toughest time will be very helpful towards your character development. Be stronger and hope that opportunities pop up in Fall or in Singapore if you are going back in the summer. You never know.I've heard quite abit about banking (one of my roommate's parents is with citi) and while the money is good, I don't know if I can appreciate the lack of job security. However, due to my current predicament, I know I can't just restrict myself to engineering jobs. Unfortunately, I don't know too many b/millionaires or celebrities directly lol. Some of my Sg friends here in college however are associated with such people through blood or acquaintance.
Lol this China-US relationship has been a talking point for perhaps the last 2 years. I think this recession will likely continue for another couple years until more debt has been deleveraged. We're not quite ready to resume normal service and unfortunately this directly affects fresh grads like me. It is however out of my hands, lest I strike some stroke of genius and discover a limitless form of renewable energy. As it is I already worry about the asset bubble that Sg is developing, not to mention the even more gigantic one in China. Ah but what do I know, there's always another school of thought that runs completely opposite to what we think. Bubbles? There's no such thing as bubbles... Where have I heard that before?
My education was paid for by my parents. However that is not the whole story. They essentially postphoned their housing loan payments by paying for my education first. Before you ask, just take it that my family will have a huge housing loan to take care of in a couple years time. There is a really long twisted story behind it involving other people speculating on our current apartment land, the current state of Sg's property market, etc etc. I don't want to bore you, suffice to say that I would have liked my dad at his age not to still be worrying about paying loans.
Yes, I heard about the control that companies have on H1B workers and I now realise how important having a green card is in this country. No wonder so many view H1Bs as merely a means to get a green card.
In regards to chinese people being less expressive, I'm quite in agreement. I think that, at least in my observations at career fairs, they also tend to project a more hesistant image when presenting themselves. This also leads to a "poorer" impression that recruitors have. If given a chance, sure they would love to work in the US. However, alot seem to lack the confidence and charisma to pull it off due largely in part to their English and then they basically just give up talking to US recruitors. I know I'm grossly generalising here but that seems to be the understanding I get from alot of my Chinese peers. Hence, they prefer following the "safer" phd route or just simply returning back to China with an advanced degree. The naturalised Chinese (ABC) do not fall into this category though and there are of course still China students who pursue a US job all the way. Maybe times are changing, I might be mistaken.
I'm glad that you fully empathize with what I went through last year when I graduated. Quite a number here could not understand why and blamed my arrogance or lack of direction. I'm with you on staying away completely from Fb. That's probably the best advice I've heard so far. I've plenty of sg friends who are either on scholarship with a fast track up the civil service ladder or in banking (sg/manhatten) drawing obscene salaries and already partying weekly or going to be posted in California with a nice programming job. These 3 possible scenarios recycled with different people and different names account for maybe 85% of all the sg students I've met here. The rest are either incredibly rich so it doesn't matter or doing a Phd (or both as it seems). Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy for all of them but I just wish I had some thing to show for all my effort (no time for partying and 1/2 a banking pay cheque is fine with me).
That you went through that and still made it to where you are now does give me some encouragment. I'll try to keep looking for that light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks again.
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hello newbie here too..
im in US too now.. doing my masters in engine.. economy is really bad.. cant find a job/internship or anything.. what are ur plans for the summer joe?
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Originally posted by 8cidity:
hello newbie here too..
im in US too now.. doing my masters in engine.. economy is really bad.. cant find a job/internship or anything.. fuck.. what are ur plans for the summer joe?
Hi 8cidity,
I completely understand what you're going through. There's been quite a lot of good advice given here so do take the time to read what some posters have to say. Did you go straight to masters from undergrad?
In terms of plans, I'll probably be heading back to Sg after moving into my apartment for next year. Like I mentioned earlier, I will likely just help out my roommate in optimising NUH operations in my free time (which I should have plenty now given wc may not be coming to us on tv). I've not heard back on any sg internships either or I got rejected.I know I'm probably not the best person to be telling you this but do try to stay positive lol.
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humm. sry joe, ur post was too long so I did not read.
There is no hope in Foster City also?
if you are talking about finding a job, while doing undergrad or now as master student. It would be difficult.
In any case, complete your studies then come back to singapore. At least your expense will be reduced because you have a house in singapore?
Time is bad in US. I know.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
humm. sry joe, ur post was too long so I did not read.
There is no hope in Foster City also?
if you are talking about finding a job, while doing undergrad or now as master student. It would be difficult.
In any case, complete your studies then come back to singapore. At least your expense will be reduced because you have a house in singapore?
Time is bad in US. I know.
Not to worry, Lokey, I felt inclined to give a full response since quite a few posters took the time to give me very detailed pieces of advice. You don't have to go through all of it lol.
I'm still trying Sg (I'm assuming you don't mean Foster city in Cali) but I think the internet application is making things difficult. If I was able to attend a local fair at NUS or NTU, things would probably be quite different as I would get to talk to people directly and meet specific companies who are actually looking to hire as opposed to me going in cold now with little ground knowledge. I'm still keeping a lookout though.
Yes I do have a place with my family, so additional rent is essentially saved if I had instead continued in the US. I did however take almost everything into account when comparing Sg to US objectively. Regardless, that is the least of worries which one is better. If I had offers coming in left right center, sure.
I'm not certain what will happen in future but its looking increasingly likely I will return to Sg after I graduate. I've basically set myself a deadline of up to early Feb next year, ~1 month after I graduate, to secure something. If I don't, I'll pack up and return. I will also have to be quite fluid and flexible too, so I'll try to apply to where ever I can regardless of location (and possibly field as well) as long as I'm eligible. Do note that if I go back Sg, there's also probably going to be a significant lag since I'll only be able to start interviews once I touch down (whether I get anything is also another story).
We'll see what happens I guess, but there's still time for things to change.
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Originally posted by Jerjoe:
Not to worry, Lokey, I felt inclined to give a full response since quite a few posters took the time to give me very detailed pieces of advice. You don't have to go through all of it lol.
I'm still trying Sg (I'm assuming you don't mean Foster city in Cali) but I think the internet application is making things difficult. If I was able to attend a local fair at NUS or NTU, things would probably be quite different as I would get to talk to people directly and meet specific companies who are actually looking to hire as opposed to me going in cold now with little ground knowledge. I'm still keeping a lookout though.
Yes I do have a place with my family, so additional rent is essentially saved if I had instead continued in the US. I did however take almost everything into account when comparing Sg to US objectively. Regardless, that is the least of worries which one is better. If I had offers coming in left right center, sure.
I'm not certain what will happen in future but its looking increasingly likely I will return to Sg after I graduate. I've basically set myself a deadline of up to early Feb next year, ~1 month after I graduate, to secure something. If I don't, I'll pack up and return. I will also have to be quite fluid and flexible too, so I'll try to apply to where ever I can regardless of location (and possibly field as well) as long as I'm eligible. Do note that if I go back Sg, there's also probably going to be a significant lag since I'll only be able to start interviews once I touch down (whether I get anything is also another story).
We'll see what happens I guess, but there's still time for things to change.
I am refering to foster city in Cali. That is where all the engineering and IT firm is. I think it is really because you are studying that why people dont accept you. You need to be on internship or something, firm there (FC) dont hire people who are unexperienced that is > at least 5 years !!??.
Oh you also need to learn to write resume, cover letter to present yourself. That is something that you need to learn from course.
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Originally posted by Lokey:
I am refering to foster city in Cali. That is where all the engineering and IT firm is. I think it is really because you are studying that why people dont accept you. You need to be on internship or something, firm there (FC) dont hire people who are unexperienced that is > at least 5 years !!??.
Oh you also need to learn to write resume, cover letter to present yourself. That is something that you need to learn from course.
I do agree that an internship is an important step into a company however getting one has been very difficult, maybe even more so than getting a job imo. I don't think that studying impedes employment opportunities, at least not in my college. Alot of my peers secure full time positions before they graduate but then again its not a level field as they are either US citizens/PRs or they have local connections.
Unfortunately, they don't teach you how to do that over here as part of curriculum. You need to actively take responsibility for your resume. There are of course many resources provided by my college that would help this. I know my resume isn't perfect but I think I've done a good job based on what I've accomplished. My problems extend further than that though as I mentioned to XenDan and number of others here - nationality, big name internship, specific skill set requirements or "fit" as they say.