I'm vexed...
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I need some really kind advices here...
My brother is heavily in debt with credit card bills now. He is also somehow been jobless for the past year since his retrenchment. And since then, things didn't turn out well for him.
I duno if I should help him to clear his entire credit cards bills cos since he brought it upon himself probably due to bad finance management, my thought is I dun want him to think that money comes easy from somewhere to clear the s**t for him. I somehow help in petty matters like if the house bills weren't paid, I would help him pay (cos my mum and dad is living with him) and occasionally stuff him some pocket money (even though he didn't ask from me).
He's not those kind of loafers but probaby because of his setback, he became low confidence. He could however pick himself up and find a job to at least temporary get through tough times but he didn't...
I'm confused. The burning question is, should I help clear his debt entirely so that he could start afresh easily with no worries to begin with or let him clear his own s**t so that it's a lesson learnt for him?
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tell him go bankrupt lo.
after that find a job as a dish washer. then u don't need to be worry.
if he refused. then let him die off himself.
to be able to own credit cards.. he mustta be getting good bucks before.
well deserved.!
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Originally posted by Fire Cracker:
tell him go bankrupt lo.
after that find a job as a dish washer. then u don't need to be worry.
if he refused. then let him die off himself.
to be able to own credit cards.. he mustta be getting good bucks before.
well deserved.!
sour grape. can u even afford to hold a credit card ?
you should read the words you typed. so full of bitterness. such ppl should stay away fm AA forum where the intention is to help and offer hope, not to the contrary
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ask him what his intentios and plans are lor..
if he has no plans whatsoever..you help him plan and find a job, let him learn to manage his finances by clearing his own issues..
helping him clear partially/fully will only encourage him to depend more on you and your parents giving you all more trouble..
while he is down at the moment..see how down he can go to..when he reach the lowest point in life..just be there to help him get up on his feet so with no-where to go at that time, that will be his turning point towards improvement, change of views, be more independent on himself in becoming a better guy etc..
what goes down must comes up..so wait until the time is right before you offer assistance..
no point helping if he is sinking and have yet to reach the floor..
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Originally posted by knickers:
I need some really kind advices here...
My brother is heavily in debt with credit card bills now. He is also somehow been jobless for the past year since his retrenchment. And since then, things didn't turn out well for him.
I duno if I should help him to clear his entire credit cards bills cos since he brought it upon himself probably due to bad finance management, my thought is I dun want him to think that money comes easy from somewhere to clear the s**t for him. I somehow help in petty matters like if the house bills weren't paid, I would help him pay (cos my mum and dad is living with him) and occasionally stuff him some pocket money (even though he didn't ask from me).
He's not those kind of loafers but probaby because of his setback, he became low confidence. He could however pick himself up and find a job to at least temporary get through tough times but he didn't...
I'm confused. The burning question is, should I help clear his debt entirely so that he could start afresh easily with no worries to begin with or let him clear his own s**t so that it's a lesson learnt for him?
It is important you do not clear the debt for him.
Going into financial debt is always personal choice.( if it is not due to medical reason).
Credit card debts will not kill him. Unless his health is in dire state, there is no need for family intervention.
He needs to learn how to manage his own finances and be responsible for his own spendings.
You are already paying for the basic needs of your parents, which your brother is also benefiting from. So you have done your part.
Parents and families always thinks they are "helping", while in fact they did not realise they are in fact "enabling" undesirable behaviors.
What is important for you now is to ensure you do not become a burden to your parents when you falls ill or gets into personal trouble. So save the money for your own rainy days. That is the best gift you can give your parents.
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Thx for the sincere replies peeps (cept for some cracker).
Yeah that's what I thought so too. My dad has talked to me about it (he didn't ask me to help) and I told him the same reason that it's not that I dun wana help but there is a limitation to helping him at this moment cos really, my bro still has the ability to pull himself up and only himself could help himself up. I am only helping him in minor ways to bring up from his fall. I've also spoken with the banks he owed credit bills too to arrange a pay back scheme and jobs offering but he can be stubborn or rather "egotistic". I duno maybe it's just that he is feeling demoralised at this moment. My parents's flat may even go into seizure some day cos there are already warning letters from court and stuffs. They are already old and innocent and the worst thing is my bro also has kids himself. So on the account of all these, I've got that impulse to clear the debts for him so my maiden family has unwanted trouble and "shame" if one day the ppl do really come for the seizure. His attitute is, "let them come." See lah, ego. I mean you do owe them money in the first place...
But really, like most of you said here, I can't be there to clear his s**t.
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Originally posted by knickers:
Thx for the sincere replies peeps (cept for some cracker).
Yeah that's what I thought so too. My dad has talked to me about it (he didn't ask me to help) and I told him the same reason that it's not that I dun wana help but there is a limitation to helping him at this moment cos really, my bro still has the ability to pull himself up and only himself could help himself up. I am only helping him in minor ways to bring up from his fall. I've also spoken with the banks he owed credit bills too to arrange a pay back scheme and jobs offering but he can be stubborn or rather "egotistic". I duno maybe it's just that he is feeling demoralised at this moment. My parents's flat may even go into seizure some day cos there are already warning letters from court and stuffs. They are already old and innocent and the worst thing is my bro also has kids himself. So on the account of all these, I've got that impulse to clear the debts for him so my maiden family has unwanted trouble and "shame" if one day the ppl do really come for the seizure. His attitute is, "let them come." See lah, ego. I mean you do owe them money in the first place...
But really, like most of you said here, I can't be there to clear his s**t.
So your brother is already a man with his own family to take care of.
Why is your parent's home in jeopardy as well ?
Is your parent living under your brother's roof ? Or the other way round ?
Typically your brother's personal debt is limited to his own name and should not implicate the home/asset your parent own.
Going into bankruptcy is an inconvenience. While in Asia, bankruptcy carries a social stigma, in legal terms it is actually to prevent him from going into more debt as he can no longer borrow from lenders.
Also, as long as he clears his debt, he will be duly discharged. It's not something that's going to destroy his life. Unless he allows it destroy himself with .
I think it's not his ego. Rather, I would consider the condition of his marriage or family life. Is his wife and him in good relation or the marriage is on the rocks? -
Perhaps it's not that he "cannot" be helped rather, he "does not want" to be helped.
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He and his wife and kids are living under my parents roof. Rightfully to say he is only the occupant. When I mentioned seizure is not the house but the items in the house and unless there are proofs of receipts that the items are bought by my parents, the items can be seized for auctions.
I duno how you managed to analyse but you are so right about the current situation. His marriage is sadly not on good terms. It's a made-do live together situation. And yes, if you guessed it, his wife is also a foreigner.
You are also right about the part that "he does not want to be helped" cos this is his character. Too strong headed. As stubborn as a mule. To the extend that he thinks his decision made is right but didn't think of the aftermath consequences.
I do not encourage bankruptcy because the amount is really not justifiable to declare one. He owes about I can say 30K and I feel that this amount could gradually settle in no time if he had picked himself up earlier, find a temp job to get over the monthly interest and stuffs. But he didn't. Instead for what I see, he just does nothing to improve the situation. To make things worse, I also suspected that he indulged a lil gambling during he world cup. This is only my guess and it's not known if he did gamble.
I had helped him with the monthly bank installments. It is a small sum becos it is based on his current situation and ability to pay but shortly after 3 months, he told me that he decided not to use that money I gave him to pay the bank back. His reason is that the meagre sum of money is only enough to pay the interest and not only that, he argued that the interest continues to roll and it's just wasting money to pay them back when he rather use the money for his kids neccesities.
At that point, I really duno what to say already untill cpl days back, he told me the seizure is gona b for real. And he's ready to "take them on" when they come and his only logical concern is he's just afraid my parents and his kids will be frighten when the time comes. WT...
I wish I could literally knock senses into him and shoutout " stop deluding yourself you f**king idiot! wake up and start doing things to improve! stop wasting your f**king life away!! you keep saying you are worried for the family but you aint doing anything!"
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Originally posted by knickers:
He and his wife and kids are living under my parents roof. Rightfully to say he is only the occupant. When I mentioned seizure is not the house but the items in the house and unless there are proofs of receipts that the items are bought by my parents, the items can be seized for auctions.
I duno how you managed to analyse but you are so right about the current situation. His marriage is sadly not on good terms. It's a made-do live together situation. And yes, if you guessed it, his wife is also a foreigner.
You are also right about the part that "he does not want to be helped" cos this is his character. Too strong headed. As stubborn as a mule. To the extend that he thinks his decision made is right but didn't think of the aftermath consequences.
I do not encourage bankruptcy because the amount is really not justifiable to declare one. He owes about I can say 30K and I feel that this amount could gradually settle in no time if he had picked himself up earlier, find a temp job to get over the monthly interest and stuffs. But he didn't. Instead for what I see, he just does nothing to improve the situation. To make things worse, I also suspected that he indulged a lil gambling during he world cup. This is only my guess and it's not known if he did gamble.
I had helped him with the monthly bank installments. It is a small sum becos it is based on his current situation and ability to pay but shortly after 3 months, he told me that he decided not to use that money I gave him to pay the bank back. His reason is that the meagre sum of money is only enough to pay the interest and not only that, he argued that the interest continues to roll and it's just wasting money to pay them back when he rather use the money for his kids neccesities.
At that point, I really duno what to say already untill cpl days back, he told me the seizure is gona b for real. And he's ready to "take them on" when they come and his only logical concern is he's just afraid my parents and his kids will be frighten when the time comes. WT...
I wish I could literally knock senses into him and shoutout " stop deluding yourself you f**king idiot! wake up and start doing things to improve! stop wasting your f**king life away!! you keep saying you are worried for the family but you aint doing anything!"
A lot of times, things are more than meets the eye.
How old are his children ? Is your sis in law working or a stay at home mother ? Are they happy with their current family role arrangements ?
Is divorce inevitable ? Perhaps your brother wants to go into bankruptcy/debt thinking that's one way to avoid paying alimony/maintenance ? If this the reason why, then it's best you avoid letting yourself get entangled in their tit for tats.
I believe your brother is asking you to focus your resources on the children instead. He doesn't want you to help him directly.
While the adults fight it out among themselves, you shall be the guardian angel for the innocent children.
Do not let the pending seizures disturb you too much. You have too much emotional attachments to the "used" items in that house.
Once the items are auctioned off, it will help pay off some of the debt.
Goods and things can be purchased again. So it's not something to judge against your brother.
An old TV or a used sofa are not worth losing the family bonds for.
Restart again when all has pass. A new chapter is better than constantly struggling to hold on to the old.
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Thanks jojobeach, you've given me a new perspective to the situation here.
About my brother, their relationship hasn't reach to the extend of divorce yet. Sometimes they portray lovey dovey to each other, sometimes they go into cold war (that's what my mum tells me) but one thing for sure, they both love the kids. I can say they are just "house mates." (sleeping in different rooms occasionally) and they do their own things. It's unless there are family gatherings then they would go out together as a family.
I believe your brother is asking you to focus your resources on the children instead. He doesn't want you to help him directly.
While the adults fight it out among themselves, you shall be the guardian angel for the innocent children.
The above is so true. I also think since he doesn't show any kan cheong ness maybe I should cut him some slack too.
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TS: when you said your brother is living under your parents and he is the only occupant, what does it mean?
your parents are still living in that home right?
in the event of a seizure, from what i read, they will come in with a court approved document stating they have the permission to valuate what products/furniture are in good condition to sell off to get back some of the cash your brother owed due to the liabilities in attempt to recover what he failed to pay..
so if possible, before the seizure, ask your parents to move the high prized items to your home for the time being, and live on a home theme of "minimalist" so that in the event should it really come to that day, the people carrying out the task has got near to nothing to take away..
benefits of which: your parents' stuffs will not be taken to repay your brothers debts if he in the first place didn't paid for it neither is it right for the court to take those items anyway..
after the failed seizure, your brother's name if unhappy to repay the debts, just let him be, since from the replies, it seems he is still in the heck care standard..
so when he is declared bankrupt, only his name is shown on Straits Time Notice section..which doesn't really affect you nor your parents..
some people just need a wake up call the hard way..
after the event, force him to rent a home on his own lor..if he still doesn't wake up his idea..that's the best way to force him to reflect his past actions so even if he isn't responsible for parents, he still need to earn his own keep to have a shelter over his head..
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Hi fallen, yes you are right about the seizure part. But I've always thought they would seize things like electrical appliances, furnitures and stuffs? I mean if my mum's jewellery is locked in her drawers, they would also seize that away? Even personal belongings?
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Cards really make pple spend more than earn.
Sigh!
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If you have the ability and wish to help, you can. But make sure he will return the money to you first.
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Tq so much ppl for your kind advices. Appreciate it very much :) After hearing all these, I guess I should know what to do for now. Once again thx!
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Originally posted by knickers:
Hi fallen, yes you are right about the seizure part. But I've always thought they would seize things like electrical appliances, furnitures and stuffs? I mean if my mum's jewellery is locked in her drawers, they would also seize that away? Even personal belongings?
i don't really know about the things locked inside the drawers..but i think they will request the home owner to be around and unlock it..
to prevent the possiblity of your brother trying to hide any cash..it's best to play safe...as law got lots of grey areas..until you and your mom can prove the items belongs to yours (with receipts which may already being thrown away), you cannot prove it's yours so you cannot stop them from taking it legally from law..
best is to keep it in bank's SDB (safety deposit box) for the time being if you and your parents don't trust relatives with the valueables..
this are stuffs i learn from watching tv and reading newspapers..hope it helps..
minimize all possibility of items taken away from you for being associted and sharing the same roof with your brother..one thing is for sure..the home will not be seized if the name on the title deed still belongs to your parents..
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Thanks fallen.. Sigh.. Now I'm more pissed with him...
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Don't mention it.
Glad to be of help =)
Just clear the lines, ownership of all furniture, electrical appliances clearly, if cannot prove, temporary move it to relative house..so the officials will see a near vacant house..with nothing to put up for auction, your brother has no way but to file for bankruptcy (speeding up the process) and that will take away some burden off your parents and yourself.
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The nightmare came true on Monday. The balifs went up to the house and he was not at home when they were there. Luckily, my mum handled the situation very well.
When he came back, mum told him that they came and he became agitated saying "just let them come and take whatever they want!" My mum has discussed with me and plans to help him settle partially. Now I really don't know. I mean we have means to definitely help to pay but to me, it is not that issue. My issue is he gota effing learn his mistake and the way he handles the situation. My mum is even wiser than him about the whole situation and talked sense, she is also very much into paying on his behalf now.
Come what may...
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Originally posted by knickers:
The nightmare came true on Monday. The balifs went up to the house and he was not at home when they were there. Luckily, my mum handled the situation very well.
When he came back, mum told him that they came and he became agitated saying "just let them come and take whatever they want!" My mum has discussed with me and plans to help him settle partially. Now I really don't know. I mean we have means to definitely help to pay but to me, it is not that issue. My issue is he gota effing learn his mistake and the way he handles the situation. My mum is even wiser than him about the whole situation and talked sense, she is also very much into paying on his behalf now.
Come what may...
The fact about credit card debts is that if the hole he dug is big enough he may never crawl out. Its like if the interest he pays > or = to disposable income .... he will never crawl out whatever his intentions were.However in saying that he has to be prepared to make some sacrifices.
If he has a car he should sell it.... stuff like that get rid of unneccessary expense. I feel if he wants to start anew and realises his mistakes he would do that. If he shows through his actions in this eg. selling car which is a luxury/comfort more than a neccessity. I would help him clear the debt. However to prevent him from recommiting deterrances should be put in place. Eg. the money is borrowed for eg. albeit interest free. That gives you some saying power should you feel he is sidetracking into his old habits.
Kind Regards
Genie