Johor Bahru bus routes
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Not surprising.... already had that experience last week when they first started turning in to GP. I remember last Tuesday morning we waited from 0645hr - 0730hr before the S'pore bus finally came. Then the evening was from 1900hr - 1930hr "stoning" inside the Kotaraya bus.Originally posted by hannwei:Seems that CW3 can also be very frustrating. Waited 45 minutes at Bukit Indah this morning for a bus. Was later told there were only three CW3 buses serving the Kota Raya <-> Gelang Patah route today. When returning from Jurong East, was stranded at Gelang Patah station for 35 minutes.
It was only after much complaints and scolding (or cursing) from us that right now they have improved a lot and lessen the waiting time during peak hours.
For this week alone, the past few days had been good. When going to work in the morning, upon reaching GP, S'pore bus already there and leave almost immediately. Coming home from work, also when we reached GP, driver for Kotaraya bus already behind the wheels & ready to go. -
So now only you know lah huh? How frustrating CW3 has been to many of us.... See? It's all because of Gelang Patah..... some more the bus interchange is located so far in..... right into the "kampong".Originally posted by hannwei:Seems that CW3 can also be very frustrating. Waited 45 minutes at Bukit Indah this morning for a bus. Was later told there were only three CW3 buses serving the Kota Raya <-> Gelang Patah route today. When returning from Jurong East, was stranded at Gelang Patah station for 35 minutes.
Can't they erect a new interchange or have another switching base nearer to the GP exit before the highway? Sigh.... -
For this week alone, the past few days had been good. When going to work in the morning, upon reaching GP, S'pore bus already there and leave almost immediately. Coming home from work, also when we reached GP, driver for Kotaraya bus already behind the wheels & ready to go.
That's good news! This proves that Handal Indah does respond to feedback. We have to let them know that it is not because there is no demand for this bus service, but that the quality of the service (timing) is tantamount to its financial returns. -
For those of you who take the CW3 and 666, please post your bus timing here and the waiting time. I believe that if we combine effort, we can help Handal Indah to improve on its service.
I have not tried this service before, but would like to do so as I intend to take it on a regular basis in the near future. -
FIRST BUS DEPARTING FROM GELANG PATAH TO JURONG EAST:Originally posted by surfbabe:For those of you who take the CW3 and 666, please post your bus timing here and the waiting time. I believe that if we combine effort, we can help Handal Indah to improve on its service.
I have not tried this service before, but would like to do so as I intend to take it on a regular basis in the near future.
Between 0630hrs - 0640hrs
As to what time the next bus depart after that, I don't know. Maybe there's one departing at 0700hrs? Have to check with HI staff @ GP.
And usually during the MORNING PEAK, it'll take ONE HOUR FROM GP TO JE due to the heavy jam at the lorry lane. (Buses follow the lorry lanes until much nearer to Tuas checkpoint where there's a split for bus lane).
So if the bus departed from GP at 0640hrs, normally will reach JE at 0740hrs.
But if there's no long queue of lorries and CW3 can squeeze through the motorist lane to cut into the bus lane, then between 0720-0730hrs can reach already.
If you want to catch the first bus to S'pore and if you're staying at Bkt Indah, make sure you board the bus that is coming at around 0615hrs onwards.
It'll take at least 10-15 mins from Bkt Indah to reach Gelang Patah.
In the evening peak hours, bus leaves from JE at every 15mins, namely 1730,1745, 1800hrs, etc. But sometimes they also look at the crowd. If there's not many passengers at 1745, then the driver will take his time & only drive the bus out at 1800hrs. -
Originally posted by purplecrazed:FIRST BUS DEPARTING FROM GELANG PATAH TO JURONG EAST:
Between 0630hrs - 0640hrs
As to what time the next bus depart after that, I don't know. Maybe there's one departing at 0700hrs? Have to check with HI staff @ GP.
And usually during the MORNING PEAK, it'll take ONE HOUR FROM GP TO JE due to the heavy jam at the lorry & motorbike lanes. (Buses follow the lorry lanes until much nearer to Tuas checkpoint where there's a split for bus lane).
So if the bus departed from GP at 0640hrs, normally will reach JE at 0740hrs.
But if there's no long queue of lorries and CW3 can squeeze through the motorist lane to cut into the bus lane, then between 0720-0730hrs can reach already.
If you want to catch the first bus to S'pore and if you're staying at Bkt Indah, make sure you board the bus that is coming at around 0615hrs onwards.
It'll take at least 10-15 mins from Bkt Indah to reach Gelang Patah.
In the evening peak hours, bus leaves from JE at every 15mins, namely 1730,1745, 1800hrs, etc. But sometimes they also look at the crowd. If there's not many passengers at 1745, then the driver will take his time & only drive the bus out at 1800hrs. -
I think it stops wherever a passenger stands. Some potential locations are:Originally posted by Peterho1:Hi...just want to know which place the Bus CW3 stop at Bukit Indah? Near where? Is the bus go to Tasek Plaza? Would appreciate anyone can help. Tks.
Gelang Patah <- Kota Raya
- beside the show village
- in front of the show village
- just after leaving the central town park
- just before reaching the traffic lights near the highway
- just after passing the traffic lights near the highway
Gelang Patah -> Kota Raya
- just before reaching the traffic lights near the highway
- just after passing the traffic lights near the highway
- just after reaching the central town park
- anywhere in front of the shops surrounding the central town park
- near Kelab Indah
I think SP Setia or Majlis Perbandaran Johor Baru Tengah should build two bus stops near the central town park. Bus passengers should not be required to wait in the rain or under the sun. -
Yes. Looks like it is more comfortable to drive to Gelang Patah, park in front of the shops near the Petronas gas station, and board and alight at the two bus stops nearby. Will be good if there are people collecting 2 MYR and take care of the cars for a day........... Lot's of such "private car parks" in Kuala Lumpur.Originally posted by hseochin:Until they sort out their teething problems, i suppose meanwhile it's better to view CW3 more as a service between Jurong East & Gelang Patah only & using other transport between Bukit Indah etc. & Gelang Patah ?! Maybe you find a good spot to park your car there & drive there instead. Cannot be too long to reach since between Bukit Indah (big roundabout area) to that station i recall CW3 only took 10 mins. to reach. -
CW3 and 666 better be coodinated arrival time
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666 will serve Plaza Tasek. Other buses include 15, 226, 328 and 504.Originally posted by hseochin:Plaza Tasek i believe is located the other end in Taman Tun Aminah so CW3 does not go there. You can take 666 from Gelang Patah station to reach Plaza Tasek. CW3 now stops @ Gelang Patah station. -
From my actual observations, i certainly don't think (overall) there's no or low demand for CW3. Off-peak departures from Jurong East can exceed 20 passengers, so much so SBST driver kept staring @ the departing CW3 as he drove into the Interchange. He seemed surprised to note the response ?!
On the other hand, departing SBST 160 from Jurong East, even if full, not necessary means the majority have to be heading to Johor, unlike CW3 from Juring East which makes no stops after that till Gelang Patah.Originally posted by surfbabe:That's good news! This proves that Handal Indah does respond to feedback. We have to let them know that it is not because there is no demand for this bus service, but that the quality of the service (timing) is tantamount to its financial returns. -
Agreed B10BLE more suited as citybus than B10M.
O 500 U also have low chassi height.Originally posted by carbikebus:Only our dear SBST Or should i say ComfortDelgro technician pay less attention to the suspension system still i'm do not like much about the B10Ms anyway.The B10BLE are far more better!SMRT bus fleets is rather what i called true citybuses right Mr Mercedes Hseochin
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Of course HI (for that matter almost any Malaysian operator !) is expected to have lower cost overheads compared to Singapore based operators. The overall lower business costs & cost of living in MY over SGP helps a lot. I'm not surprised therefore even if some Singapore operator were to base their operations in Malaysia instead & even buying their vehicles from there & servicing them there, to get the most from the lower cost envirnoment there.
Therefore no disagreement that HI would tend to have lower cost advantages over SBST or SMRT(TIBS) etc. BUT in order to see the situation in relevant perspective, you have to compare apples with apples & not say with oranges from another etc. So e.g. say HI have lower fuel cost & even assuming if their buses are more fuel-efficient than those from SBST, but because their route distances are much longer the fuel cost therefore need not be cheaper than SBST with far shorter distances to cover per trip per service.
I look forward to the day where SBST or SMRT(TIBS) dares to ply the same route as CW3 via 2nd Link & put up with the increased fuel expense & toll charges etc. then see if they would just dumbly keep quiet or instead speak up against such cost increases as well ! In the case of CW 1 & 2, only then i consider it that HI has any clear-cut lower cost advantage over SBST, SJE or SMRT(TIBS) since the route distance & tolls charged similar. But CW3 clearly NOT in the same boat as any of these !!
Road tax etc. i didn't even bother to mention that ! Do read thoughfully what i've written before jumping to inaccurate conclusions of what others say.
On the issue of toll rates it's my understanding that both MY & SGP like to have similar amount of tolls charged so that'll mean no unilateral decision to alter toll charges unless both sides agree to any changes. Therefore no difference whether between before or after starting since if no consencus say, then no changes !Originally posted by sbst275:Well, luan luan lai is all because of compeition. Everyone trying to complete for a limited number of passengers
Next, abt concession... Let's be frank, in JB, HI gets lots of concession, low road tax of abt RM23, low diesel cost which is subisidised by KL govt. By right, they are in a better position of lower operation cost than SBS or SMRT
Road tax concession in SG? ARE YOU SURE? A SG car road tax is $800 while SBS bus is $1200 a year... In MY, it is RM23 for buses, RM150 for cars.
Next, that guo lu fei. I know other ppl KPKB bef, but, if HI had bargained bef they started the sv, maybe they are in a better position. Is this the 1st time you know SG govt dealing with matters where aft you start your things, any bargain they wun bother one?
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No one dares to run 2nd Link rt...Originally posted by hseochin:Of course HI (for that matter almost any Malaysian operator !) is expected to have lower cost overheads compared to Singapore based operators. The overall lower business costs & cost of living in MY over SGP helps a lot. I'm not surprised therefore even if some Singapore operator were to base their operations in Malaysia instead & even buying their vehicles from there & servicing them there, to get the most from the lower cost envirnoment there.
Therefore no disagreement that HI would tend to have lower cost advantages over SBST or SMRT(TIBS) etc. BUT in order to see the situation in relevant perspective, you have to compare apples with apples & not say with oranges from another etc. So e.g. say HI have lower fuel cost & even assuming if their buses are more fuel-efficient than those from SBST, but because their route distances are much longer the fuel cost therefore need not be cheaper than SBST with far shorter distances to cover per trip per service.
I look forward to the day where SBST or SMRT(TIBS) dares to ply the same route as CW3 via 2nd Link & put up with the increased fuel expense & toll charges etc. then see if they would just dumbly keep quiet or instead speak up against such cost increases as well ! In the case of CW 1 & 2, only then i consider it that HI has any clear-cut lower cost advantage over SBST, SJE or SMRT(TIBS) since the route distance & tolls charged similar. But CW3 clearly NOT in the same boat as any of these !!
Road tax etc. i didn't even bother to mention that ! Do read thoughfully what i've written before jumping to inaccurate conclusions of what others say.
On the issue of toll rates it's my understanding that both MY & SGP like to have similar amount of tolls charged so that'll mean no unilateral decision to alter toll charges unless both sides agree to any changes. Therefore no difference whether between before or after starting since if no consencus say, then no changes !
HI is another one... If they wanna argue abt that $9 toll, they should have done that bef the buses start running... LTA will NOT bother as they would tell you to fly kite as you should have done your studies
Road tax? I must tell you that, what is that concession? Now buses have to pay ERP further. Also, in SG, road tax are calculated by CC and not by classification (LTA does not have road tax vehicle classification in the 1st place)... So dun come and tell me what concession you are talking abt unless you say... -
Oh y-e-a-h.... I do agree that SBST drivers have been S-T-A-R-I-N-G at CW3..... In fact, almost every morning, upon our arrival at JE interchange, at least one SBST driver would be standing near the alighting platform s-t-a-r-i-n-g at us all ..... a kind of envious look..Originally posted by hseochin:From my actual observations, i certainly don't think (overall) there's no or low demand for CW3. Off-peak departures from Jurong East can exceed 20 passengers, so much so SBST driver kept staring @ the departing CW3 as he drove into the Interchange. He seemed surprised to note the response ?!
On the other hand, departing SBST 160 from Jurong East, even if full, not necessary means the majority have to be heading to Johor, unlike CW3 from Juring East which makes no stops after that till Gelang Patah.
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Bus fares
JB <-> Batu 5 Skudai (Tampoi)
Triton: RM 1.40
Others: RM 1.60 -
Not only SBST drivers, the other day even saw private bus driver (whose vehicle parked next to the 2 CW3 vehicles in JE Interchange) smiling with the CW3 driver while looking @ his bus !
Such behavior i find understandable since such model of M-B used by HI not widely seen in SGP yet & i sense these onlookers don't mind taking them for a test drive ?!? Afterall, it's been a long time since any major revisions in the M-B bus-chassi models in SGP ! Now you have MY leading the way in acquiring these new generation M-B in volume, with some SGP operators only getting theirs later & likely in smaller quantities only.Originally posted by purplecrazed:Oh y-e-a-h.... I do agree that SBST drivers have been S-T-A-R-I-N-G at CW3..... In fact, almost every morning, upon our arrival at JE interchange, at least one SBST driver would be standing near the alighting platform s-t-a-r-i-n-g at us all ..... a kind of envious look.. -
Correct, SGP operators don't yet think it's that affordable for them to ply the 2nd Link route, unless they charge higher than their current fares, the tolls are reduced & more passenger base can be assured, which wouldn't seem likely till i'll say 2020 when Bandar Nusajaya is fully ready ! Maybe they can start planning when in a few years time the Johor administration capital is re-located to Nusajaya, resulting in another Putrajaya in JB.
However, the long term economic potential of 2nd Link should not be overlooked due to shorter term cost issues.
Re: tolls issue, as i've reasoned in my previous post, i don't find any real differences whether or not LTA would have bothered if they have or have not started operations.
This road tax, remains a nonsense item to me, especially since the existence of the COE & ERP in Singapore. More stupid when they assess it by engine capacity for cars & by GVW (not cc) for commercial vehicles !! When i say 'concessions' i take a broad overall view which not merely covers this stupid road tax, but also instruments like COE, import duties, ARF etc.
Fortunately the stupid road tax for buses is NOT by cc, as otherwise imagine how much more tax be payable for say an M-B OH 1627 L (as used by SJE) with its 15068 cc V8 engine compared to a 9600 cc used on the Volvo B10M !
Same too for the vans & mini-buses here.
Public service vehicles here are known to get exemption from COE, ARF (deservedly so !), import duties etc. so as to minimise any cost 'exggerations' so that operators can afford a better grade of vehicle for a same given absolute cost outlay. Therefore even if SBST buses are charged some road tax, they get exemptions in the other types of taxes such that overall, they still pay much less taxes than private operators using the same grade of vehicle.
This to me explains why most private operators here use lousier buses than say SBST, SMRT(TIBS) or SJE !! Their overall purchasing costs can be quite close but more of the money wasted in the taxes instead of being used to acquire a bus of higher OMV, which more often than not, would also mean a higher grade of bus. Endup they pay almost as much, but get a lousier grade/specification of bus. Same too with ambulances i observe here. The SCDF gets top class ultra-modern (high OMV almost same as M-B E-Class cars !) M-B Sprinter van-based ambulances but most companies in the private sector end up with lousier Japanese or Korean vans only for not very different prices because their money get swallowed up via the taxes here !
So overall, vehicle tax concessions do exist for public service vehicles (like public buses) here.Originally posted by sbst275:No one dares to run 2nd Link rt...
HI is another one... If they wanna argue abt that $9 toll, they should have done that bef the buses start running... LTA will NOT bother as they would tell you to fly kite as you should have done your studies
Road tax? I must tell you that, what is that concession? Now buses have to pay ERP further. Also, in SG, road tax are calculated by CC and not by classification (LTA does not have road tax vehicle classification in the 1st place)... So dun come and tell me what concession you are talking abt unless you say... -
Tks for your quick reply. How much is the bus fare for:-Originally posted by PJ_Quek:666 will serve Plaza Tasek. Other buses include 15, 226, 328 and 504.
Bus CW3 to Gelang Patah station
Bus 666 from GP to Tasek Plaza
Can help? Tks. -
If you're going to Tasek Plaza from Jurong East, they charge S$ 3 upon boarding @ Jurong East. You then transfer to 666 @ Gelang Patah station with the same ticket with no further payment.Originally posted by Peterho1:Tks for your quick reply. How much is the bus fare for:-
Bus CW3 to Gelang Patah station
Bus 666 from GP to Tasek Plaza
Can help? Tks. -
You still dun know how govt work... If aft you started biz and KPKB, they wun bother even if you appeal..Originally posted by hseochin:Correct, SGP operators don't yet think it's that affordable for them to ply the 2nd Link route, unless they charge higher than their current fares, the tolls are reduced & more passenger base can be assured, which wouldn't seem likely till i'll say 2020 when Bandar Nusajaya is fully ready ! Maybe they can start planning when in a few years time the Johor administration capital is re-located to Nusajaya, resulting in another Putrajaya in JB.
However, the long term economic potential of 2nd Link should not be overlooked due to shorter term cost issues.
Re: tolls issue, as i've reasoned in my previous post, i don't find any real differences whether or not LTA would have bothered if they have or have not started operations.
This road tax, remains a nonsense item to me, especially since the existence of the COE & ERP in Singapore. More stupid when they assess it by engine capacity for cars & by GVW (not cc) for commercial vehicles !! When i say 'concessions' i take a broad overall view which not merely covers this stupid road tax, but also instruments like COE, import duties, ARF etc.
Fortunately the stupid road tax for buses is NOT by cc, as otherwise imagine how much more tax be payable for say an M-B OH 1627 L (as used by SJE) with its 15068 cc V8 engine compared to a 9600 cc used on the Volvo B10M !
Same too for the vans & mini-buses here.
Public service vehicles here are known to get exemption from COE, ARF (deservedly so !), import duties etc. so as to minimise any cost 'exggerations' so that operators can afford a better grade of vehicle for a same given absolute cost outlay. Therefore even if SBST buses are charged some road tax, they get exemptions in the other types of taxes such that overall, they still pay much less taxes than private operators using the same grade of vehicle.
This to me explains why most private operators here use lousier buses than say SBST, SMRT(TIBS) or SJE !! Their overall purchasing costs can be quite close but more of the money wasted in the taxes instead of being used to acquire a bus of higher OMV, which more often than not, would also mean a higher grade of bus. Endup they pay almost as much, but get a lousier grade/specification of bus. Same too with ambulances i observe here. The SCDF gets top class ultra-modern (high OMV almost same as M-B E-Class cars !) M-B Sprinter van-based ambulances but most companies in the private sector end up with lousier Japanese or Korean vans only for not very different prices because their money get swallowed up via the taxes here !
So overall, vehicle tax concessions do exist for public service vehicles (like public buses) here.
The exemption of COE, ARE or what, by right, bus running is that I put the buses on the road because all the variables are fixed, the fuel prices, road tax, wages, it is now how much revenue can I get and the profits. Even there are the concession you claimed, it is still public buses paying higher road taxes, works out to be close to the amt of what of the COE which buses and goods vehicle pay. Wheras in MY, car road tax is RM300 and buses are RM130 (Bef MY govt announces road tax reduction).
Dun compare buses, though you may say HI has better buses, their licensed capacity of 67 (41 seats and 26 standee) is not suitable for SG. Already CRB, MK2, MK3, MK4 with average capacity of 84 cannot cope already... They have nice buses but capacity wise, SG bus operators may need to buy more buses to be able to serve the sv -
The buses of HI are definitely suitable for S'pore. From what I understand, the higher capacity for the S'pore buses are due to the higher number of standees. Seating wise, it's roughly the same: CRB (51), MK 2 (51), MK3 (50) MK4 (50). Please note that there are single seats on the MAN 18.250 which accouts for a lower seating capacity. If a S'pore operator were to buy a similar bus as HI, it's not neccessary for them to buy more buses. Instead, the operator would tailor the bus to suit its needs.Originally posted by sbst275:Dun compare buses, though you may say HI has better buses, their licensed capacity of 67 (41 seats and 26 standee) is not suitable for SG. Already CRB, MK2, MK3, MK4 with average capacity of 84 cannot cope already... They have nice buses but capacity wise, SG bus operators may need to buy more buses to be able to serve the sv -
Don't make me laugh ! From your manner of writing & using terms like KPKB (for the benefit of international readers of this forum could you care to use proper English words & explain your meanings more clearly ?!) how can you reasonably expect your case to be entertained by this Government or for that matter, by any Government ?? Those who think & write like you, of course they don't deserve to bother to entertain !
Anyway, i won't repeat what i've mentioned some 2 posts ago on this tolls issue on why i consider that it would have made NO difference whether or not HI did mentioned it before or after starting operations ! Don't bother to tell me i don't know how Governments work, as i wasn't born yesterday !
Your paragraph on COE, ARF etc. of taxes you seem very confused by your own writing ! When i look @ the situation, i look down from a vantage position like from a helicopter point of view & i do NOT get distracted by just 1 tax
component like road tax !! The overall cost levels are determined (in part) by aggregate of the various tax components, or lack of some of them in the case of public buses. Therefore even if road tax on SBST bus is higher in absolute terms it does NOT have to mean that overall tax per SBST bus has to be higher than say a bus or coach used by a private operator !! That's because the tax savings of not paying COE, ARF, duties etc. alone can be so much more than paying say S$1000 road tax for say 20 years ! See the bigger picture.
I say again, make apple to apple comparisons as far as possible i.e. no use to compare taxes paid by goods vehicles with public buses as the specifications & hence OMV tend to be very different such that absolute figure comparisons tend to be meaningless in such context !
Sure, as in almost any business it's revenue & profits. But to complicate matters, in the real world costs don't tend to be fixed too much & demand need not be the same every day although you still need to pay your workers & the banks etc. promptly & everybody still need to eat even if making losses !
As for buses used by HI like those on CW3, they are definitely suitable for operators in SGP to use as well ! The GVW of the bus-chassi & payload even with bodywork fitted is roughly similar to say an O 405 used here. The performance output & fuel consumption efficientcies & even the Euro-3 possible engines meet if not exceed requirements here & can be favourably compared to just about any existing public bus model here. Therefore as regards carrying capacities, what's left to consider is basically how much allowance space per seat on the floor & the trade-off for legroom & how many seats to be installed etc. You can have less seats & more standing space or vice-versa. In this respect it's no different from the 12m length rigid buses here as to the overall interior spaciousness & real potential passenger carrying capacity.
In fact i notice there's even seat belts & arm-rest for the pair of seats directly behind the driver & there's no centre 5th seat @ the extreme rear which eliminates the risk of a seated passenger being thrown like a projectile down the passageway of the bus should it make even a low speed emergency brake.
These are small things but still areas in which the SGP buses can learn something from !
The 12m long rigid citybuses would continue to be relevant to Singapore's future transport needs, although of course in proportions far lower than in Malaysia & elsewhere with lower passenger loading densities. Articulated single-deckers & rigid double-deckers would see more demand here to supplement the rigid single-deckers. Maybe in the distant future even articulated double-deckers or double-articulated single-deckers using track guided steering may appear here. But i won't be surprised if Malaysia would also use these (ahead of Singapore) although more likely only within the city-centre in the big Malaysian cities like KL or JB. As Malaysia becomes more developed towards 2020, it no longer needs to 'blindly follow' or take 'hand-me-downs' on the cheap from Singapore. HI's choice of bus i see it as a good 1st step in that direction.Originally posted by sbst275:You still dun know how govt work... If aft you started biz and KPKB, they wun bother even if you appeal..
The exemption of COE, ARE or what, by right, bus running is that I put the buses on the road because all the variables are fixed, the fuel prices, road tax, wages, it is now how much revenue can I get and the profits. Even there are the concession you claimed, it is still public buses paying higher road taxes, works out to be close to the amt of what of the COE which buses and goods vehicle pay. Wheras in MY, car road tax is RM300 and buses are RM130 (Bef MY govt announces road tax reduction).
Dun compare buses, though you may say HI has better buses, their licensed capacity of 67 (41 seats and 26 standee) is not suitable for SG. Already CRB, MK2, MK3, MK4 with average capacity of 84 cannot cope already... They have nice buses but capacity wise, SG bus operators may need to buy more buses to be able to serve the sv -
Yes, agreed. Shows you understand more about buses than him & look from a less myopic perspective.Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:The buses of HI are definitely suitable for S'pore. From what I understand, the higher capacity for the S'pore buses are due to the higher number of standees. Seating wise, it's roughly the same: CRB (51), MK 2 (51), MK3 (50) MK4 (50). Please note that there are single seats on the MAN 18.250 which accouts for a lower seating capacity. If a S'pore operator were to buy a similar bus as HI, it's not neccessary for them to buy more buses. Instead, the operator would tailor the bus to suit its needs.
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Are there more international readers than local readers here?Originally posted by hseochin:Don't make me laugh ! From your manner of writing & using terms like KPKB (for the benefit of international readers of this forum could you care to use proper English words & explain your meanings more clearly ?!) how can you reasonably expect your case to be entertained by this Government or for that matter, by any Government ?? Those who think & write like you, of course they don't deserve to bother to entertain !
Anyway, i won't repeat what i've mentioned some 2 posts ago on this tolls issue on why i consider that it would have made NO difference whether or not HI did mentioned it before or after starting operations ! Don't bother to tell me i don't know how Governments work, as i wasn't born yesterday !
Your paragraph on COE, ARF etc. of taxes you seem very confused by your own writing ! When i look @ the situation, i look down from a vantage position like from a helicopter point of view & i do NOT get distracted by just 1 tax
component like road tax !! The overall cost levels are determined (in part) by aggregate of the various tax components, or lack of some of them in the case of public buses. Therefore even if road tax on SBST bus is higher in absolute terms it does NOT have to mean that overall tax per SBST bus has to be higher than say a bus or coach used by a private operator !! That's because the tax savings of not paying COE, ARF, duties etc. alone can be so much more than paying say S$1000 road tax for say 20 years ! See the bigger picture.
I say again, make apple to apple comparisons as far as possible i.e. no use to compare taxes paid by goods vehicles with public buses as the specifications & hence OMV tend to be very different such that absolute figure comparisons tend to be meaningless in such context !
Sure, as in almost any business it's revenue & profits. But to complicate matters, in the real world costs don't tend to be fixed too much & demand need not be the same every day although you still need to pay your workers & the banks etc. promptly & everybody still need to eat even if making losses !
As for buses used by HI like those on CW3, they are definitely suitable for operators in SGP to use as well ! The GVW of the bus-chassi & payload even with bodywork fitted is roughly similar to say an O 405 used here. The performance output & fuel consumption efficientcies & even the Euro-3 possible engines meet if not exceed requirements here & can be favourably compared to just about any existing public bus model here. Therefore as regards carrying capacities, what's left to consider is basically how much allowance space per seat on the floor & the trade-off for legroom & how many seats to be installed etc. You can have less seats & more standing space or vice-versa. In this respect it's no different from the 12m length rigid buses here as to the overall interior spaciousness & real potential passenger carrying capacity.
In fact i notice there's even seat belts & arm-rest for the pair of seats directly behind the driver & there's no centre 5th seat @ the extreme rear which eliminates the risk of a seated passenger being thrown like a projectile down the passageway of the bus should it make even a low speed emergency brake.
These are small things but still areas in which the SGP buses can learn something from !
The 12m long rigid citybuses would continue to be relevant to Singapore's future transport needs, although of course in proportions far lower than in Malaysia & elsewhere with lower passenger loading densities. Articulated single-deckers & rigid double-deckers would see more demand here to supplement the rigid single-deckers. Maybe in the distant future even articulated double-deckers or double-articulated single-deckers using track guided steering may appear here. But i won't be surprised if Malaysia would also use these (ahead of Singapore) although more likely only within the city-centre in the big Malaysian cities like KL or JB. As Malaysia becomes more developed towards 2020, it no longer needs to 'blindly follow' or take 'hand-me-downs' on the cheap from Singapore. HI's choice of bus i see it as a good 1st step in that direction.
You dun understand... The higher road tax buses pay are by right to cover the COE. Who dun know SG govt type? You think they so nice tell you public buses dun need to pay COE? Even the road toll, they wun bother, because that $9 is to their gain, they dun see any need to reduce aft you start biz. Unless buses pay lower road taxes than cars. Lots of things are done off from your eye sight. Historically, SG buses have to pay more road usage cost, incl ERP and sort.
Anyway, next, 67 capacity buses are not suitable for SG... If they are deployed on Svs like 238, they need more buses to run, adding to maintenance cost. You can have fancy buses, but if they cannot carry enough passengers, you have to buy more. Svs like 151 are already facing shortage of buse as well.
Like for Sv 151, there are 22 buses... If using HI type, it needs 27 buses. I need more buses yet my number of passengers remains fixed. Also with the inccuring cost of running 5 add buses. You can have HI type of better buses, but if they are not practical in terms of loading, it can be a killer. Already, many buses that uses SD carry more than 100 ppl onboard during peak hrs.
You may say as MY progress, they get better buses? Are you sure? The off areas like Muar still gets older buses for the future. Even they are able to get better buses, you sure other problems wun rise with their resources?