What do you hate about each bus type?
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Come on, one to his opinion, but frankly speaking, the CRBs are badly mantained, just look at 3624G, the wheels are black, paint peeling...........Originally posted by hseochin:Have to disagree.
I find the Scania N113CRB among the better buses in Singapore & quite a
significant model ! Because this model when it debuted here in 1989, set
noticiable new standards to the omnibus scene here with its charged-cooled fully encapsulated engine which made it THE quietest heavy-duty bus coach
ever to exist in Singapore's history. Also among the best performing !
Even today technically speaking, this model compares well with any other in Singapore.
The engine remains impressive to this day, although in the area of suspension
ride comfort, i'll rate it 'lousy' especially noting its suppose to be air-suspended !
I'll even say the M-B OF 1417 or OH 1318 with only spring suspension is just if not more comfortable !!
If you found the N113CRB 'worse', i'll say it's an exception rather the norm & i'll blame it more on lack of adequete maintenance, driver competence in driving this model of bus ! Basically technically, from bus-chassi point of view, this is no doubt ranks among the better buses ever to exist in Singapore !
As for 'worse' i can think of many like the Volvo B10M, B7F, Leyland Atlantean etc. The N113CRB certainly can't be inferior to any of these. I'll agree on the air-con point in that (Fuji i believe) it's not too fresh & cooling & noisy the same time. I'll prefered Carrier, Sutrak, Konvecta or Coachair instead. -
SBS1688K did also have the same decal when it ran under sv36. SBS2888T ran for sv7Originally posted by Superbus:I don't recall SBS 1688K and SBS 2888T getting special liveries when launched. However SBS 2888T did get special decals on the body. "Hop Onboard The 21st Century Bus" decal was put up on the window just above the side desto. -
VSOs: Just don't like them. Volgren body is crap, it rattles and squaeaks an it flexes. Air conditioning is too cold, or not cold enough. It has a Voith gearbox, and does not go very fast. It also sounds like a vaccuum cleaner down stairs. Scrap them all or drive them off the Benjamin Sheares Bridge, except 9888Y.
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Coz its using ZF rite?Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:VSOs: Just don't like them. Volgren body is crap, it rattles and squaeaks an it flexes. Air conditioning is too cold, or not cold enough. It has a Voith gearbox, and does not go very fast. It also sounds like a vaccuum cleaner down stairs. Scrap them all or drive them off the Benjamin Sheares Bridge, except 9888Y.
evil sia u... But the volgren part is true i guess 
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Why not say all vehicles with Voith gearboxes be burnt to a cinder?Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:VSOs: Just don't like them. Volgren body is crap, it rattles and squaeaks an it flexes. Air conditioning is too cold, or not cold enough. It has a Voith gearbox, and does not go very fast. It also sounds like a vaccuum cleaner down stairs. Scrap them all or drive them off the Benjamin Sheares Bridge, except 9888Y. -
Please tell me you are kidding with me ! It's not April you know. Sorry but I remain firm with my judgement of Scania OAC buses, the cAC scanias are ok . You should go and try the OAC from BNdepot before you praise them . Let me give you the list , go try them out. SBS0053Z, SBS0055T and SBS0049L. Just these 3 buses are enough. Even my non-buses friends hate those buses. What people wants is aircon and a comfortable ride. Scania OAC N113CRB has neither. Have you ever seen scania OAC N113CRB bus as cold as the VSO's aircon ? Enough said. They may be old buses with problems but look at mark 2s , they are much more comfortable , and deploy regularly on main trunk routes. You don't see the Scania N113CRB in town area very often do you ?Originally posted by hseochin:Have to disagree.
I find the Scania N113CRB among the better buses in Singapore & quite a
significant model ! Because this model when it debuted here in 1989, set
noticiable new standards to the omnibus scene here with its charged-cooled fully encapsulated engine which made it THE quietest heavy-duty bus coach
ever to exist in Singapore's history. Also among the best performing !
Even today technically speaking, this model compares well with any other in Singapore.
I guess to each and his own.
Scania OAC N113CRB in my opinion is the worst single deck bus in SBST's fleet. There are a couple more buses that are worse , they are Dennis Lance of SMRT and Scania Elbo L113. However I love the L113 OAC and 2888T , they are the only scania buses that I enjoy riding on. -
Some on 29 even smell fishy and can find sand on the seat...Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:Please tell me you are kidding with me ! It's not April you know. Sorry but I totally agree with my judgement of Scania OAC buses, the cAC scanias are ok . You should go and try the OAC from BNdepot before you praise them . Let me give you the list , go try them out. SBS0053Z, SBS55T and SBS49L. Just these 3 is enough . They may be old buses with problems but look at mark 2s , they are much more comfortable , and deploy regularly on main trunk routes. You don't see the Scanias in orchard very often do you ?
I guess to each and his own.
Scania OAC N113CRB in my opinion is the worst single deck bus in SBST's fleet. There are a couple more buses that are worse , they are Dennis Lance of SMRT and Scania Elbo L113. However I love the L113 OAC and 2888T , they are the only scania buses that I enjoy riding on.
But Crb cacs have the best aircon i think... -
I like Dennis Lances. Good acceleration, silent engine, better leg space and nice interior. Good choice by SMRT! Lances are better than Volvo Mark3s! Try taking service 160 and u know wat i mean. Snails!
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If i were to look in the same way as you do, i might agree with you totally !
BUT that's not the case.
When i say a particular bus is good etc., i'm mainly looking @ the technical qualities & specifications of the bus-chassis. I don't really care much about the bus body used (unless it's an integrally constructed bus with original body which is clearly NOT the case here) or the state of maintenance given to the bus in overall.
I do not get 'distracted' by these issues, since the present overall (less than desirable ?) state of the bus is due MORE to shortcomings in these areas rather than due to any design or quality shortcomings in the bus-chassis itself !
To solve your negative impressions of this model here, the people doing maintenance work on them have to wake up & be motivated enough to give the necessary care to ensure that original standards & conditions are maintained as much as practically viable & i DO believe much more should be done in this respect !!
The Scania N113CRB, because of it's full engine encapsulation, i find it perfectly logical to deploy in densely populated residential areas instead of in town areas since the city is a noisy area anyway but for residential environment, LESS noise is always welcome !! The N113CRB i do believe has THE lowest external engine noise levels for a public service 12m long bus in Singapore today. So these are better deployed outside of town instead !
As i observe, the Volvo B10M is a 'make-do' citybus NOT a purpose built one like the N113CRB or M-B O 405 etc. Examination of the specifications & design intents of the models would show that quite clearly. Mk.2 you refer to B10M ?? that model & version is hardly a comfortable PSV, by my standards of evaluation ! More suited to be used like a truck to carry goods instead !! Not surprising to note therefore (if it's true) that the B10M is no longer in production & that there's no intention to market any mid-engined bus anymore for city-bus use !
Air-con coldness ? The earlier Fuji units used seem so-so only while the later Fujis, Sutrak, Carrier, Konvecta even Coachair units all i find emit colder & fresher air. But air-con & bus-chassi are seperate subjects in my method of evaluation so i don't allow lousy air-con to impair my impressions of the bus-chassis.
To conclude, you're of course welcome to judge in your way if you prefer that.
But i have to say very clearly my impressions are derived from a very different method of assessment, which goes beyond the 'superficial' & obvious (much of which i'm also aware of even before you mentioned it) to focus primarily on product competence per se. So i'm simply looking
from a different perspective, with different priorities !Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:Please tell me you are kidding with me ! It's not April you know. Sorry but I remain firm with my judgement of Scania OAC buses, the cAC scanias are ok . You should go and try the OAC from BNdepot before you praise them . Let me give you the list , go try them out. SBS0053Z, SBS0055T and SBS0049L. Just these 3 buses are enough. Even my non-buses friends hate those buses. What people wants is aircon and a comfortable ride. Scania OAC N113CRB has neither. Have you ever seen scania OAC N113CRB bus as cold as the VSO's aircon ? Enough said. They may be old buses with problems but look at mark 2s , they are much more comfortable , and deploy regularly on main trunk routes. You don't see the Scania N113CRB in town area very often do you ?
I guess to each and his own.
Scania OAC N113CRB in my opinion is the worst single deck bus in SBST's fleet. There are a couple more buses that are worse , they are Dennis Lance of SMRT and Scania Elbo L113. However I love the L113 OAC and 2888T , they are the only scania buses that I enjoy riding on. -
Compared to the Volvo B10M Mk3. the Dennis Lance here has Euro2 Cummins charged-cooled engine of reasonable performance & NVH (noise vibration harshness) levels which i find among it's attractive points. But suspension ride comfort though better than all the B10M's here i've riden only average when matched against the likes of M-B O 405 etc.
The German Vogel Sitze seats are of good consistent quality though firm in support but they should put more padding to soften it slightly. Nevertheless still overall better than the 'local' seats in the B10M Mk3 here !
The Lance seems cost attractive to have, but the longer term durability & reliability of the Amercian Cummins diesel engine remains to be seen.Originally posted by cool_elf:I like Dennis Lances. Good acceleration, silent engine, better leg space and nice interior. Good choice by SMRT! Lances are better than Volvo Mark3s! Try taking service 160 and u know wat i mean. Snails! -
The Cummins engines used on our LO3Xes, Darts and Tridents have not given much trouble so far, have they?Originally posted by hseochin:The Lance seems cost attractive to have, but the longer term durability & reliability of the Amercian Cummins diesel engine remains to be seen. -
Snails?! Try svc 89 before you tell me that! The 89 mkIIIs average 65-75km/h!Originally posted by cool_elf:I like Dennis Lances. Good acceleration, silent engine, better leg space and nice interior. Good choice by SMRT! Lances are better than Volvo Mark3s! Try taking service 160 and u know wat i mean. Snails! -
Just brought a thought to my mind. 9888Y has 4 gears?Originally posted by SBS9828X:Coz its using ZF rite? evil sia u... But the volgren part is true i guess 
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Gearing also a factor, besides engine performance.
I've taken a fully crowded Volvo B10M Mk.2 (non a/c) on 170 & it did 80 km/h on the Causeway.
10 years ago, i've taken the M-B O 305 (with Alexander double-deck body)
on 74 also fully crowded both floors & with only 240 BHP engine it still did 80 km/h on Adam Road. Unlikely to have turbocharger then. M-B gearbox 3-speed automatic only.Originally posted by SBS1908B:Snails?! Try svc 89 before you tell me that! The 89 mkIIIs average 65-75km/h! -
Well... whether the bus can go 80km/h or 35km/h all depends on the BCs itself... If you give a trident to a BC but he got plenty of time to spare, the end result is the same.. you will see tridents travelling at an average speed of no more than 50km/h.. Like what other members had said before.. whether a bus can speed all depends on the BCs....
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It is not turbocharged, but had an ultra-high acceleration diff. It would have been revving very hard to get to 80km/h! Some can do 90km/h, but engine revs are so high, you cannot speak to anyone on the bus. O.305s in Sydney have the same diff ratios as well.Originally posted by hseochin:Gearing also a factor, besides engine performance.
I've taken a fully crowded Volvo B10M Mk.2 (non a/c) on 170 & it did 80 km/h on the Causeway.
10 years ago, i've taken the M-B O 305 (with Alexander double-deck body)
on 74 also fully crowded both floors & with only 240 BHP engine it still did 80 km/h on Adam Road. Unlikely to have turbocharger then. M-B gearbox 3-speed automatic only. -
Yes, I hate ALL Voiths, but I wish a painful death on all VSOs! Verrrry painful!Originally posted by iveco:Why not say all vehicles with Voith gearboxes be burnt to a cinder?
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
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The VSOs look a little "retarded"....very low floor....but i only like its shiny reflection. I always drive the HK VSO in the Midtown Madness 2 game...very noisy engine...
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The O 305 in Singapore likely naturally aspirated version @ 240 BHP.
But i do know that M-B also offered turbocharged versions i.e. OM 407 hA
@ 280 BHP which i suspect might be in some O 305 G or O 305 GG (double-articulated models in the M-B O-Bahn system in Germany or Australia etc.) & the intended max. speed is 100 km/h.
The O 305 in Singapore 10 years ago that did 80 km/h was most likely revved to the limit but the engine remained very smooth running (like BMW 6-cylinder car petrol engine !) although of course loud !! No tachometer then to check engine speed.
But what i liked about the O 305 was that least whatever you hear from the engine is 'real' engine sound, unlike those Volvo Olympians or so-called Super Olympians where they much of the noise from the 'engine' tends to NOT come from the engine itself (which is itself quite quiet) BUT from the stupid radiator air intake fan they put in front or on 1 side !! The higher the engine is revved the fan motor spins faster making so much more noise than the engine itself some distance behind !! Dennis Tridents here don't seem to have such stupid noisy fans yet they still somehow still get cooled & i've not seen any cases of overheating etc. ! Same as for O 305, of course.Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:It is not turbocharged, but had an ultra-high acceleration diff. It would have been revving very hard to get to 80km/h! Some can do 90km/h, but engine revs are so high, you cannot speak to anyone on the bus. O.305s in Sydney have the same diff ratios as well.