Speeding on BKE by Singapore-Johor Express buses
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On the North-South highway, it's practically OK & sufficiently 'safe' to go even 130 km/h or slightly above in certain circumstances, especially on a modern & competent coach or van etc.
100 km/h (whether in car or coach) can be too slow in such circumstances !
So to me i'll NOT necessary consider that as 'speeding' ! The fellor's probably just trying to drive @ more productive & efficient speed given the driving environment @ hand ! He's not doing sighseeing i believe !
These policemen need to drive some coaches to better appreciate the circumstances before making any such 'bookings'. Most often, the 'speed limits' tend to be too artificially low & people are merely trying to drive @ a more reasonable, efficient speed from their own driving experiences.
The fact that they are still alive & driving shows that their past driving experiences & judgement do hold water. If they're really that unsafe drivers, they would have died long ago !Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:I'd love to try one of them speedsters.
I've seen a bus being booked for speeding on the North-South Highway in Malaysia. The bus was a MAN 18.310. I was travelling about 100 kmh when this bus overtook my car and was soon out of my sight. A few moments later, I saw it on the road shoulder with a police patrol car. -
60 km/h is definitely too SLOW much of the time on the expressway, going from my personal experiences using SJE many years now.
Much of the time fortunately i'll say, i note the SJE vehicles go from 60 km/h to 100 km/h while on the expressway, which i seriously consider as reasonable, given the driving environment @ hand ! 60 km/h or slower for too long is simply ridiculous then !
Even SJE's lousy old MAN's do exceed 60 km/h. Their newer Scania K94, K113 ? & of course the flagship twin-piped M-B OH 1627 L can all do 100+ km/h, in almost deaf-silence in the V8's case. Handal Indah's newer & better MAN's can deliver somewhere in between !!Originally posted by sbst275:Hmm... Daryl, did he say what is the colour of the bus?
And Please, CW2 does write the icon "Singapore - Johor Bahru" on the sides
And only Malaysian buses can go abv 60km/hr, for many trips onboard SJE buses, they have never went abv 60km/hr. Only Malaysian buses do not have limiters as they are save from installing as they are not under local rules as they are not locally - registered buses -
MAN's are OK, as from their German background they engineered to handle the high speeds of the famous autobahns very well.
130 km/h on a modern coach, bus or even van really is 'nothing' when compared to 250 km/h on a car or 300 km/h on a train !
From personal observations such 'swinging' i'll say are deliberate acts from the drivers as they try to cut out or in of traffic. While i don't really approve of such driving behavior, modern buses or coaches (even heavy duty ones like the 16t MAN from your description) are on the whole offer reasonably good margins in active safety, such that despite their height & weight they can still be very stable & responsive in emergencies !
Somehow i observe the drivers there know of such practices & are able to adjust to it & from so many years of using the N-S highway, accidents are the exception rather than the norm. Even then, many other factors often account for the accident, not merely or mainly on speed issues alone !
But having said the above, 1 practice which i never like is when they like to 'follow' real close to the vehicle in front & expecting the fellor in front to either let them overtake or increase their speed to keep the distance !
Unless the coaches use an electronic draw-bar (which i don't think they're that advanced yet to use !) there's no sense to follow somebody @ say 120 km/h with only 1 metre or less !! gap ! I've not seen any accidents occuring as a direct result of such undesirable driving practices, but my stand remains that while its OK to drive fast (under the right conditions) they have to learn to keep their distances as well !!!!
Perhaps the local drivers 'know' so accidents are rare if @ all despite such practices ?! Then i'll say it's good idea to be driven (by a local driver) BEFORE attempting to drive oneself in Malaysia so that one can then learn & later adapt to their local driving practices & still avoid accidents.
M-B O 405 @ ONLY 80 km/h ? In a way that's a 'waste' of its potential !
But in that case i suppose due to the gearing for quick acceleration the top speed is reduced. In the M-B O-Bahn system O 405's can go to 100 km/h.Originally posted by SBS3624G:I have seen MAN 16.sth(forgot) go 130km/h on NS highway, the bus was swinging dangerously side-to-side, nobody dared to come close. Such drivers really endanger lifes of many and shld be stopped.
Anyway, the reason why our public buses are so law-abiding is bcos they have speed-limitors. The fastest I have seen was a 965 MB0405 Hisp going at 80+km/h. -
Yes & no answer.
No as on expressways, generally 80 km/h is definitely OK especially when driving a modern European car, bus, coach or van !
Those driving Japanese vans or taxis like Toyota Crown (as mentioned by someone in this forum who attended some taxi course) then they should be more cautious, to compensate for the lower level of active safety inherently known of such vehicles !
Yes if it's on some narrow & winding road with poor view or in a car-park etc. ! Then irrespective of vehicle type, one's advised to crawl cautiously & slowly @ much lower speeds !Originally posted by sabaisabai:I don't consider 80km/h dangerous at all. Illegal, yes, but dangerous, no. It's hardly fast! -
I hate to say this, but the coaches tend to swing about when they exceed 120km/h, it is really dangerous if you ask me.Originally posted by hseochin:MAN's are OK, as from their German background they engineered to handle the high speeds of the famous autobahns very well.
130 km/h on a modern coach, bus or even van really is 'nothing' when compared to 250 km/h on a car or 300 km/h on a train !
From personal observations such 'swinging' i'll say are deliberate acts from the drivers as they try to cut out or in of traffic. While i don't really approve of such driving behavior, modern buses or coaches (even heavy duty ones like the 16t MAN from your description) are on the whole offer reasonably good margins in active safety, such that despite their height & weight they can still be very stable & responsive in emergencies !
Somehow i observe the drivers there know of such practices & are able to adjust to it & from so many years of using the N-S highway, accidents are the exception rather than the norm. Even then, many other factors often account for the accident, not merely or mainly on speed issues alone !
But having said the above, 1 practice which i never like is when they like to 'follow' real close to the vehicle in front & expecting the fellor in front to either let them overtake or increase their speed to keep the distance !
Unless the coaches use an electronic draw-bar (which i don't think they're that advanced yet to use !) there's no sense to follow somebody @ say 120 km/h with only 1 metre or less !! gap ! I've not seen any accidents occuring as a direct result of such undesirable driving practices, but my stand remains that while its OK to drive fast (under the right conditions) they have to learn to keep their distances as well !!!!
Perhaps the local drivers 'know' so accidents are rare if @ all despite such practices ?! Then i'll say it's good idea to be driven (by a local driver) BEFORE attempting to drive oneself in Malaysia so that one can then learn & later adapt to their local driving practices & still avoid accidents.
M-B O 405 @ ONLY 80 km/h ? In a way that's a 'waste' of its potential !
But in that case i suppose due to the gearing for quick acceleration the top speed is reduced. In the M-B O-Bahn system O 405's can go to 100 km/h. -
I've taken an O.405 (both turbo and non-turbo) to 115km/h and there was no swinging to speak of... just too much wind resistance...and the governor wasn't workign at the time (it kicks in at 100km/h).
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wad are the buses that i see on BKE that have a plate number of SH- ?
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Singapore Johore Express...SJEOriginally posted by finoq:wad are the buses that i see on BKE that have a plate number of SH- ? -
Of course you don't 'blindly' drive @ 120 km/h all the time !
Worth looking out for signs of strong crosswinds whenever on the highways !
That's why they provide those coffee bag wind indicators !
Then you slow down accordingly.
I've taken even 1.5 decker coaches (i.e. slightly higher than high height single-deck coach but ~ 0.5m lower height than double-deckers) based on Scania L94 chassi on the PlusLiner & never encountered 'involuntary' 'swing abouts' !
Same too of course on the numerous trips i've taken using single high deck coaches over the last decade on the N-S highway. Good & lousy makes & models of bus-chassi i've sampled much of what's there over the years & have to say, somehow it's a 'managable' situation not a dangerous one i'll say.
I do believe such 'swinging' incidents, if any, tend to be deliberately caused by some impatient drivers trying to cut in & out of traffic. While i don't approve of such behaviour, somehow local drivers 'know' & 'understand' such driving 'techniques' practised & give in accordingly such that although in theory it seems dangerous, in reality people there learnt to live with it (literally !) &
the fact they remain alive tells me somehow it's 'under control' & 'tolerable'.
Modern especially the high end coaches do have adequete margins of active safety features to counter any such situations. Bearing in mind almost all the reputable makes of coaches come from countries of origin where the local driving conditions are far more 'dangerous' than what you have in Singapore & Malaysia, which really is 'chickenfeed' to them to handle !! If they can make it through ice & snow etc., i see no good reason why they cannot make it through on the dry even wet highways here !Originally posted by SBS1908B:I hate to say this, but the coaches tend to swing about when they exceed 120km/h, it is really dangerous if you ask me. -
I have a photo which shows an M-B O 303 coach driven on test track such that the coach is tilted up to 60 degrees relative to the horizontal ground with the driver still managed to drive it ! On the same photo, they also show an M-B S-Class car driven @ 90 degrees (to the horizontal).
Of course the speeds must be very fast to ensure that centrifugal forces can keep the vehicles on the road & they don't roll over !
So the fact they can put up with such extreme conditions, what then are the 'normal' even highway driving conditons here compared to that ??!!
Chickenfeed in comparison.
Taking into account the engine performance on the O 405, i believe given the use of appropriate gear ratios, an O 405 can go as fast as 130 km/h if not higher. I find M-B (air-suspended) buses offer good handling characteristics. Of course the margin of active safety on their spring suspended models (as is the case with the other 'lesser' makes i'll say) is somewhat lower & these are nowhere as 'dynamically' competent !Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:I've taken an O.405 (both turbo and non-turbo) to 115km/h and there was no swinging to speak of... just too much wind resistance...and the governor wasn't workign at the time (it kicks in at 100km/h). -
I noticed that most of the coaches bound for Malaysia are MAN products. Is this the reason why this brand is so popular among the bus companies?Originally posted by hseochin:MAN's are OK, as from their German background they engineered to handle the high speeds of the famous autobahns very well.
130 km/h on a modern coach, bus or even van really is 'nothing' when compared to 250 km/h on a car or 300 km/h on a train !
From personal observations such 'swinging' i'll say are deliberate acts from the drivers as they try to cut out or in of traffic. While i don't really approve of such driving behavior, modern buses or coaches (even heavy duty ones like the 16t MAN from your description) are on the whole offer reasonably good margins in active safety, such that despite their height & weight they can still be very stable & responsive in emergencies !
Somehow i observe the drivers there know of such practices & are able to adjust to it & from so many years of using the N-S highway, accidents are the exception rather than the norm. Even then, many other factors often account for the accident, not merely or mainly on speed issues alone !
But having said the above, 1 practice which i never like is when they like to 'follow' real close to the vehicle in front & expecting the fellor in front to either let them overtake or increase their speed to keep the distance !
Unless the coaches use an electronic draw-bar (which i don't think they're that advanced yet to use !) there's no sense to follow somebody @ say 120 km/h with only 1 metre or less !! gap ! I've not seen any accidents occuring as a direct result of such undesirable driving practices, but my stand remains that while its OK to drive fast (under the right conditions) they have to learn to keep their distances as well !!!!
Perhaps the local drivers 'know' so accidents are rare if @ all despite such practices ?! Then i'll say it's good idea to be driven (by a local driver) BEFORE attempting to drive oneself in Malaysia so that one can then learn & later adapt to their local driving practices & still avoid accidents.
M-B O 405 @ ONLY 80 km/h ? In a way that's a 'waste' of its potential !
But in that case i suppose due to the gearing for quick acceleration the top speed is reduced. In the M-B O-Bahn system O 405's can go to 100 km/h. -
MAN is popular in Malaysia but hardly so in Singapore.
On the whole, i'll say that the well known makes like Mercedes-Benz, MAN, Saab-Scania do handle quite well in high speed or extreme situations.
Not surprising in view of their origin country native driving conditions which tend to very much more dangerous than in Singapore or Malaysia. So if they can 'pass' there, no good reasons why they cannot 'pass' here.
As i've mentioned in another post, MAN's popularity in Malaysia i'll put it to their marketing efforts there & they don't seem to find Singapore that important a market to them.
I'll not so sure most of the coaches in Malaysia are MAN, but i'm quite sure the top few most popular makes there are Mercedes-Benz, MAN, Saab-Scania, Hino.
With air suspension, i believe MAN & Scania presently have more units there while M-B & Hino there tend to be spring suspended athough in more recent times, the number of air suspended M-B units 'quite suddenly' increased with the twin exhaust pipe V8 model now quite popular. In the last 9 months or so, their air suspended models with new generation higher efficientcy engines also begins to catch on there.Originally posted by pkchukiss:I noticed that most of the coaches bound for Malaysia are MAN products. Is this the reason why this brand is so popular among the bus companies? -
The MAN buses like the 18.280, 18.310, 18.400 and 24.460 are manufactured in Malaysia. MAN have a bus assembly line there. The basic structure is constructed locally while the major components, such as the engine block and suspension, are acquired from the parent company in Germany. As such, you are able to see CBU MAN buses in Malaysia. This helps to reduce costs as compared to importing the chassis from abroad. Which is why MAN buses are favourable to many operators and are replacing other brands such as Hino and Nissan. I find it surprising that Singapore operators are turning a blind eye for quality buses at close proximity and low cost.
Speaking of Hino, they too have an assembly line in Malaysia. The Hino AK, RK and RM range are all manufactured locally. This explains the abundance of Hino buses in the country. -
I hate to say this,But local drivers hate to see a heavy vehicles especially buses overtook their beloved cars,Why?It's easy,Mine a powerful car and you are heavy buses..Ego..Ego..Let them be lar,As long they are not posing a real threat to other road users it is fine.Its up to the authorities to summons them.
I've got a complain once where i overtook a car at 80km/h speed along the PIE
The lady driver think that the extreme fast lane should not exceed 80km/h? -
When you say CBU MAN buses, i take it to mean MAN integrally constructed complete buses with original MAN bodies. So is that the case in Malaysia ?
I believe in KL they use the SL252 citybus but i suspect it's not 100% original MAN stuff (the rear lampset doesn't look too consistent with MAN design) but a very close copy by HICOM ? Anycase from personally ever riding in it before in KL, i found the bodywork build & finishing quality better than the Alexander, Duple Metsec even Volgrens in Singapore !
Based on your description, i'll say only the MAN bus in chassi form is assembled in Malaysia via CKD mode. Having seen a 24.460 from Malaysia it's quite obvious to me the design & styling of the double-decker coachwork used was sourced from some (likely Malaysian) 3rd party coachbuilder, not original MAN body from Germany in CKD form.
Mercedes-Benz, Saab-Scania etc. also have production & assembly plants in lower cost centres like Latin America. I believe Malaysian cost levels are getting more expensive with time & German design products made & assembled in say China, India or Brazil can be extremely competitively priced too while keeping within acceptable levels of quality.
In Hino's case, you saying they make & assemble the entire bus-chassi in Malaysia ? Or rather they import the pre-made parts in CKD form for assembly there ?
Singapore operators i'll say will need time to update themselves on the latest situation. Understandably, the level of trust on direct Europe sourced stuff remains much higher.Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:The MAN buses like the 18.280, 18.310, 18.400 and 24.460 are manufactured in Malaysia. MAN have a bus assembly line there. The basic structure is constructed locally while the major components, such as the engine block and suspension, are acquired from the parent company in Germany. As such, you are able to see CBU MAN buses in Malaysia. This helps to reduce costs as compared to importing the chassis from abroad. Which is why MAN buses are favourable to many operators and are replacing other brands such as Hino and Nissan. I find it surprising that Singapore operators are turning a blind eye for quality buses at close proximity and low cost.
Speaking of Hino, they too have an assembly line in Malaysia. The Hino AK, RK and RM range are all manufactured locally. This explains the abundance of Hino buses in the country. -
I find it a tolerably managable situation, whether in Singapore or Malaysia.
Once one 'learns' & adapts to the local road manners i'll ultimately expect everybody to still somehow manage to get by without too much real danger or irritations !!Originally posted by carbikebus:I hate to say this,But local drivers hate to see a heavy vehicles especially buses overtook their beloved cars,Why?It's easy,Mine a powerful car and you are heavy buses..Ego..Ego..Let them be lar,As long they are not posing a real threat to other road users it is fine.Its up to the authorities to summons them.
I've got a complain once where i overtook a car at 80km/h speed along the PIE The lady driver think that the extreme fast lane should not exceed 80km/h? -
Haiz,There are still plenty of stereotype peoples out thereOriginally posted by hseochin:I find it a tolerably managable situation, whether in Singapore or Malaysia.
Once one 'learns' & adapts to the local road manners i'll ultimately expect everybody to still somehow manage to get by without too much real danger or irritations !!