Guys, it's time to wake up and sober up.
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Dear forumnites, it's time to wake up and sober up.
I will not entertain any replies or clarifications with regard to this. If you do not like it, leave this forum. If you think it does not apply to you, take note and read on, but a reminder that you will take whatever consequences that might arise from your actions. I'm buying you time here, I'm putting up my last-ditch effort to save this forum, so if you are against this, we will proceed to close the forum down.
Recently I have received many complaints about how the standard and quality of discussion of this forum has dropped. You might not know but many fellow bus fans, local and overseas, have detested the people partcipating in the discussions here.
This Singapore Buses forum is (or was) one of the top bus enthusiasts' forum for Singapore. A Google search on Singapore buses will quickly locate us in the top ranking. We used to attract a lot of quality discussion; everyone who knew SgForums.com were impressed with our work, our enthusiasm, our sheer amount of information, research and data. With that, we were one of the Top 10 forums. Our highest ranking was 6th placing, only behind Cars forum. That was the amount of dedication that we had put in. That was before many members left this place due to the diminishing quality of discussion.
And I dare to say that then, for every post we had, it was a worthwhile one. I myself can spend one whole week working on a single reference post. I could have clocked many posts for one long post, with my moderator's account, but I didn't. Other posts would come in for suggestions & comments to improve the reference. All of us pulled in and helped each other. We shared knowledge. That was the sheer purpose for the existence of the forum.
Now, when foreign bus enthusiasts wants to know what Singaporean bus enthusiasts are doing, they do a search and they step into SgForums.com. They see this mess that we have, and left quickly. I ask you, of the so many topics created in our forum, how many are necessary? How many are only for chatting purposes? How many are duplicates? And how many of these are the works of regulars who post in this forum?
Imagine you had never seen this forum. Clear your mind. Now you load the page and you see all these topics. The quality of discussion. Beyond the stickies, there is nothing well worth reading. Who would be interested about your fondness of a particular service? Who would be bothered to read a thread whose title simply reads "Svc 91" or "Service 107"? I give you the benefit of doubt. I opened up the topic, only to see unimportant chats about a particular service. I give up on the forum and leave.
Looking through the topics is enough to shun any geninue bus enthusiast off. Do you have an idea what it takes to be a bus enthusiast? Have you seen the web pages of what other bus enthusiasts have done? Have you seen the amount of dedication in it? Have you visited other bus forums around the world and see how real hobbyist discussions take place?
Do you have any idea that what you are doing now is tarnishing the reputation and image of Singaporean bus fans, given the popularity of Singapore Buses forum? Do you have the passion and enthusiasm to be called an enthusiast, and have pride in your work and be recognised as a "bus fan"? Do you have what it takes to be a bus enthusiast? If you do not have, step out of here or go act like a professional bus enthusiast.
I will make this clear: Singapore Buses forum is a professional and specialised forum. This is not your playground where you may post as you wish. Chatty posts will not be tolerated. I will not tolerate anyone who wants to make use of the forum to increase their post count, or worse, to help increase the rating of the forum. I would like to highlight to you that this forum does not need your chatty posts to increase its rating. Yes, we don't need you here, please get out. Go, create a forum of your own and try posting every minute there. Or better still, go create a script to do that if you are skilful enough. Make it to the top! Then I'll congratulate you and ask you the whole purpose of doing this. Do you feel glorious being at the top from the 'feat' you've managed to pull through? Even if SgForums.com decide not to remove this erroneous ranking, you'll feel ashamed to be on top. This I reaffirm, we do not need your ratings. We would rather not be in the Top 10 or Top 20, but to offer quality posts and discussion that will make people come again and again.
I urge you to come up with constructive posts. For the regulars, why come here to ask for your directions when you can have an online bus guide & street directories handy, and since you are online in the first place? Even better, as regulars, shouldn't you be the ones providing the answers? Does your enthusiasm not be enough to give you the will power to flip through a bus guide or street directory to familarise with places? If this is so, then I don't think you have enough enthusiasm to be a bus enthusiast. Wouldn't it be shameful for a bus enthusiast not to know his bus routes well?
Be hardworking, go source for more information when the need arises. Do not sit there and ask "Why?". Why not start a topic with information rather than questions, and go research on more information that you can share with others? Or ask for more inputs? You'll be full of satisfaction and pride from the work you have done. Be innovative, not crappy. Recent topics on KL and JB bus routes are a good starting point. That is also the reason why I'm supporting them wherever I can. For the KL thread, I sourced for an online map and spent one whole night to improve it using a primitive Microsoft Paint which everyone have. That night, I slept at 2am. The image is clear but huge (>1Mb); I could have easily given up on the project with my 56k connection but I see the dedication and want to push the flow. Every alteration means a 20-minute work, 10 minutes to upload, another 10 minutes to review. It is tough work but this is the dedication that has guided my work here.
Why do I not see this level of enthusiasm here from those who call themselves "bus fans"? Those who are active here (minus those long-serving members and mods), you will be the third generation of bus fans. One day, you will be the representatives of the bus enthusiasts community in Singapore. You have a heavy responsibility. We are already over that stage; we have done our fair bit of contributing to the society and community. Now it's our turn to pass down the batton. Sooner or later, one of your people will become moderators and take on a more senior role. But before that happens, you have to act like a moderator, mentor and leader.
I dare say that this Singapore Buses forum is the online bulletin board that has helped improved the profile of the bus fan community and popularized bus spotting as a hobby that is not "weird" and limited to a few. We have a role to play; this forum did not exist simply as a place for discussion. This forum has come a long way and I am sure it has been great help to many people who are interested in buses to know the latest trends and happenings, and to understand how we work. Surely, seeing the state of the topics list, that is not reflective of what we are doing, right? -
Thus, I will like to highlight a few points for all:
1. No flamming. Too many a times we have people who are involved in flaming wars due to misunderstandings. I do not wish to see this happen again. Everyone who post here should adopt a learning attitude; be prepared that there may be errors in your posts. Learn from it. Those clarifying, please do so with some tact and courtesy. Remember that we are not doing correction, but simplying doing a kind reminder. Humans will err, and there is no point in hurting your fellow bus enthusiasts or the forum by being right. Have mutual understanding and being gentlemanly.
If both sides of an argument believe they are right, then please, stop and think. Think you are definitely right? Bring some evidence with you, may it be photos or references. Not sure? Then maybe it's time to do some research and clarify for all's sake. Everybody in the forum is reading, it's not something between 2 persons. Have the forum in mind.
2. Watch your creation of topics. I don't wish to see multiple threads being created for a single topic. Already, for the 2 new services 57 and 58, I see one for Service 57, one for Service 58, and one for both of them? Is it necessary? Do we need to check 2 threads at a time for discussions on a single matter? As a reference, from now on, a single topic shall only be created for one new service. An example, 1 thread for Service 57 and 1 thread for Service 58 is enough. The press release will be reflected under the appropriate sticky. Full stop. Nothing else will come out. We need to be organised, clear, neat and lean.
3. Naming of topics. Another issue is the vague way topics are named. Citing as an example, how would I know that you are referring to the new signboards in place at Bishan Interchange, which might indicate a new service there, if you simply put the topic name "BISHAN BUS INTERCHANGE"? Long topic names are fine, go ahead. The longer the better, as allowed, if you need to make yourself clear.
I hope to see some improvement by National Day, or the sooner the better. I am working very hard to save this forum. This will be my last major assignment as a bus enthusiast so I hope I won't be disappointed. -
If you are so righteous and concerned about the slum this forum is sinking into, perhaps you should raise this issue to the moderators and let them manage it.
It's nice to know people still care about respect and orderliness. But this is the internet. The only way to stop obvious spamming or witless banter is to ban their IPs, which is a last resort. Even then, there's no stopping them from setting up another login name and IP address and start their nonsense all over again.
Most visitors are mature forumites and know how to distinguish between worthwhile and worthless threads. There is no need to be unduly worried as to how people view the forum good or bad. People are entitled to fair comment and you just have to accept any tirades that fly your way.
That's life. -
It is sad but i have to side with ^tamago^ and BillyBong.
2 years back, i usually visit this forum to read up on all the information and research on buses. I found it very interesting and enlightening back then. Considering the amount of knowledge that i attained while reading the posts back then and now, i prefer the past.
Unfortunately, i joined the forum when most of the members have left for another forum. Soon, unrelated and useless topic was created. I just joined in. There was a stupid topic in which i created n i apologise for that. It has been deleted now.
One thing i noted is that the only moderator that i usually see in the forum is tranquilice. Tranquilice tried hard to manage the forum all this while..and i applaud him for that. Another great contributer for this forum is of course, ^tamago^. I shall not comment further for now... -
But heck we can still continue discussion... regarding the creation of crap-box, i am so sorry but my intention was to make it running so that others could just post something if they have the urge to
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I am an ex-moderator and have access to the moderating team. This was written after consultation with them on the state of this forum. This is equivalent to a moderator's note, cos no moderator wants to do this nasty task now. Maybe you are not here long enough to know my involvement here.Originally posted by BillyBong:If you are so righteous and concerned about the slum this forum is sinking into, perhaps you should raise this issue to the moderators and let them manage it.
It's nice to know people still care about respect and orderliness. But this is the internet. The only way to stop obvious spamming or witless banter is to ban their IPs, which is a last resort. Even then, there's no stopping them from setting up another login name and IP address and start their nonsense all over again.
Most visitors are mature forumites and know how to distinguish between worthwhile and worthless threads. There is no need to be unduly worried as to how people view the forum good or bad. People are entitled to fair comment and you just have to accept any tirades that fly your way.
That's life.
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getting 6th again? wait lah... you sure you can beat 180?
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i didnt know buses have such a big fan base.
i was surprised when i first joined and found that people actually talk about buses. -
With regards to new services, an initial post can be made in the "Press Release" section, then those who wish to comment on the new links brought about by this new service can start a new thread for that (and only THAT) purpose.
As for flamers, some people are more keen on personal attacks than serious discussion. However, there was no written rules about flaming that the Sgforums admin set in stone, unlike Hardwarezone, where many were suspended for posting flamebait. We are not empowered to deal with flamers and it is understandable why many left for invisionfree. If you look at Hardwarezone's Wall of Shame, you can find many people banned for flaming. Unfortunately, whoever in charge of this board isn't up to mark to handle flames, and this spills over to the subforums. I think Tamago, along with Military Nuts' CenturionMBT, should be given power to ban flamers. Jason and FI could do with extra hands. -
well, let me put in a word or two.. like some of the others, i had read the previous posts of the forum since its opening..
and yes, the quality of the posts had detetorioted. like muziq bus, when the forum came to my knowledge, the regular members had sort of "migrated" to another forum, which I'm sure you all know which it is... of course, with 2 seperate forums, multiple same topics may appear over the various forums, thus causing some others to be irritated, annoyed and causing chaos.
Still, i would like to praise tranquilice, and ^tamago^ , for both of you all contributions, esp to some of the newer members here, such as me. without you 2, many more questions will not be answered and enlightened.
mentioning about personal attacks by iveco, i hate to admit i seen them, and experienced them myself. this could be an ignorance by one member, and an attack from another member probably the particular question or action irritates him/her.
mentioning this, i would also like to apologise for my topic bout the destos. Though i have to say now, that they are obtained from SBS particularly. you all can see the war of attacks that soon followed the posts..
peace -
Ok...this topic might have been written on the topic starter/author's own accord and it may not accurately represent the views of all forumnites here, past or present.
In any case, this is my two cents worth. I don't really post much here nowadays...most of my posts are alwiz in the anything unusual thread. I am not mentioning names nor pointing a direct finger at anyone. But you should know who you are. Sometimes, comments are not necessary. You don't need to comment on everything or anything that is posted. Sometimes holding your peace is much appreciated. -
It's good that you have shared your thoughts and feelings.
As to why some of the quality of he posts have deteriorated...I think some ppl over here should know better.
Next, having 2 separate forums may have let to same topics. But I guess it is not exaggerated as you think it is...causing chaos, irritation and annoyance. That is just purely your assumption.
I believe you also have a typo from Still...enlightened. Instead of esp to some of newer members here, such as me...instead of to, i guess you should mean from. Otherwise, it seems that you are indirectly praising yourself and may cause further misunderstanding...i am sure u wun want that rite?
As for personal attacks, well...i don't think ppl like to launch personal attacks others for no rhyme or reason. It's perhaps something inappropriate the person has done. And if one think correcting a person/fault constitutes to a personal attack, then maybe it's because the person being corrected is too sensitive or cannot accept constructive advice. If the person concerned can't accept it, perhaps the person should take a break from the forums then.
If if one wants to apologise, just apologise. A simple sorry is good enough. Don't need to add in extra sentences. Certain things have been clarified. There's no need for repetition.Originally posted by 105090:well, let me put in a word or two.. like some of the others, i had read the previous posts of the forum since its opening..
and yes, the quality of the posts had detetorioted. like muziq bus, when the forum came to my knowledge, the regular members had sort of "migrated" to another forum, which I'm sure you all know which it is... of course, with 2 seperate forums, multiple same topics may appear over the various forums, thus causing some others to be irritated, annoyed and causing chaos.
Still, i would like to praise tranquilice, and ^tamago^ , for both of you all contributions, esp to some of the newer members here, such as me. without you 2, many more questions will not be answered and enlightened.
mentioning about personal attacks by iveco, i hate to admit i seen them, and experienced them myself. this could be an ignorance by one member, and an attack from another member probably the particular question or action irritates him/her.
mentioning this, i would also like to apologise for my topic bout the destos. Though i have to say now, that they are obtained from SBS particularly. you all can see the war of attacks that soon followed the posts..
peace -
Yo tamago, dun fret, I am posting this on this thread to tell you this: I appreciate the fact that throughout the 1 yr I am here, you and the mod team were always here to help me. I would like to thank you. Really.
All the best to whatever you do.
PS: No I am not trying to suck up to any body.
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I agree...
when I had some interests in buses since last year, I tried to find out about them, but I didn't seem to get enough information about them. I searched the internet and I arrived here. It's amazing how much I wanted to find was here, and so I decided to join this forum too. However, in the span of half a year, a lot has dropped around here, and I not much around here. I also realized ^tamago^ is some 'history' around here, i found lots of his old posts but not any new ones until now. I also want to make the point that I do respect genuine bus fans, though I myself do not have the knowledge to be one. I really hope this improves in the future. -
Tamago should be given authority to ban flamers. Seen the way he administers the invisionfree board. Even better than what Jason and FI are doing. Anyway, these 2 are overworked, and extra pairs of hands are a godsend.
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Oh, in case u don't know, I dion't administer the invisionfree board.Originally posted by iveco:Tamago should be given authority to ban flamers. Seen the way he administers the invisionfree board. Even better than what Jason and FI are doing. Anyway, these 2 are overworked, and extra pairs of hands are a godsend.
I won't be a moderator for the short to mid-term. Food for thought. -
NVM, there is also CenturionMBT of Military Nuts. He is another one who believes in all-round fairness. That's why his forum is so well-kept. Ours is also considered relatively tidy where flaming is concerned.Originally posted by ^tamago^:Oh, in case u don't know, I dion't administer the invisionfree board.
I won't be a moderator for the short to mid-term. Food for thought. -
The invisionfree thing is so hard to use and i dont see any single bus related topic there except for 3 crappy topics. What happened? BTW, i am also SBS9889U there.Originally posted by ^tamago^:Oh, in case u don't know, I dion't administer the invisionfree board.
I won't be a moderator for the short to mid-term. Food for thought. -
Oh. Talking about that forum, I tried to join as a member but could not. I must wait the mods to send the verification E-Mail in order to post, or else my account will be remove. But waited for a long time but they did not send me the E-mail. That's why I get remove and could not join. Who is the mods there ? I want to speak to one of them.Originally posted by SBS9889U:The invisionfree thing is so hard to use and i dont see any single bus related topic there except for 3 crappy topics. What happened? BTW, i am also SBS9889U there. -
If you think that the forum is difficult to use and you can't adapt the setting in there, quit it. As simple as that.Originally posted by CAIX:Oh. Talking about that forum, I tried to join as a member but could not. I must wait the mods to send the verification E-Mail in order to post, or else my account will be remove. But waited for a long time but they did not send me the E-mail. That's why I get remove and could not join. Who is the mods there ? I want to speak to one of them. -
It is heartening to know that we still have so many passionate enthusiasts, esp new comers, who are so supportive to this forum.
When this forum started back in 2001, it consisted mainly of a bus enthusiast group who knew each other initially. Thinking that we can do a part to raise awareness of our hobby, especially when Singapore isn't so exposed to this.
Bit by bit we put in our heart and every knowledge that we know of. It worked well. As an open forum, whoever interested can have open access to the information here, and our aim is reached, sharing our knowledge across the board.
However, as times go by, people start mis-using the forum. Posting irrelevant stuffs, makeing fun of some topics, flaming etc. Even our hardwork at sgWiki were tempered by some black sheeps. We had enough.
Hence, instead of expanding our network, the community is breaking up because of this. Our hobby is one of it's kind, it enables people of different age groups to mingle together, to learn and grow. Instead, perhaps contributed by generation gap, alot of misunderstandings were present. Sure, I don't blame those who doesn't read our rules and regulations, but I certainly won't welcome those who test the system.
I was once a very active moderator, trying to fend off any flaming, vandalism and anything that would degenerate the forum. But it was too much that I decided to stop. Apparently it shows that some just do not have the self discipline and be considerate.
I urge all of you once again, if you want this forum to thrive, put in your best. We can't save a ship that have sunken too deep. Quality matters, not quantity.
Hope that you guys will re-think again. Thanks. -
No. What I mean is that I can't even join !Originally posted by SBS9816E:If you think that the forum is difficult to use and you can't adapt the setting in there, quit it. As simple as that. -
Obviously you have gone to the wrong invisionfree forum.Originally posted by SBS9889U:The invisionfree thing is so hard to use and i dont see any single bus related topic there except for 3 crappy topics. What happened? BTW, i am also SBS9889U there.
And so far I did not see any member with username "SBS9889U" there. -
This forum started in end March 2003.Originally posted by off_service:When this forum started back in 2001, it consisted mainly of a bus enthusiast group who knew each other initially.
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the invisionfree forum, from what i heard from one friend, is a "private" forum. and most of the people there sort of know one another quite well, seen each other before etc.
apparently, this friend (in sgforums and also in invision) had asked me to join the invision free, which i promptly did so. However, after 2 weeks or so, my account was never validated and was deleted after a while..
no further comments..