MBO405
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What are the differences between SBST O405s and SMRT O405s? Both the engines sound different though. SBST O405s acceleration sounds like OF1417 and SMRT O405s acceleration sounds like OF1413 (minus the TIBS trademark wheezing sound
). I feel that SMRT O405s are much more powerful than SBST O405s but I do like the engine sound of SBST O405s. Anyone kindly enlightened me on the differences. Thanks.
SMRT Dennis Lances rule! I think Lances are cheaper than MBO405s. -
EngineOriginally posted by cool_elf:What are the differences between SBST O405s and SMRT O405s? Both the engines sound different though. SBST O405s acceleration sounds like OF1417 and SMRT O405s acceleration sounds like OF1413 (minus the TIBS trademark wheezing sound ). I feel that SMRT O405s are much more powerful than SBST O405s but I do like the engine sound of SBST O405s. Anyone kindly enlightened me on the differences. Thanks.
SMRT Dennis Lances rule! I think Lances are cheaper than MBO405s.
SBST O405's use OM447h while SMRTB O405's use OM447hA. Engine capacity and structure wise, no difference, jus a revision to the 11,967cc OM447 engine.
Gearbox
SBST O405's use Mercedes-Benz W3E 110/2.2R gearbox while SMRTB O405's have ZF 4HP500.
Nothing else suggest there was any other difference in the design of the chassis. -
yes, Dennis Lances are cheaper. $159k compared with >$200k for a Mercedes-Benz.
but i prefer Mercedes-Benz, which lasts longer and is more comfortable. -
Dennis Lances may be cheaper, but the bus structure is no good. Very loud engines especially when the time it accelerate and it emits black smoke on the exhaust pipe.Originally posted by ^tamago^:yes, Dennis Lances are cheaper. $159k compared with >$200k for a Mercedes-Benz.
but i prefer Mercedes-Benz, which lasts longer and is more comfortable. -
But the air-con is strong and nice and I like to hear the sound and it is also low floor too only having one step to board and alight the bus. You sit at lower level is the best as there is leg space for your leg to rest but the rest is quite cramped for the upper part and the sideway part which you suddenly can fall off if the bus suddenly jerk or brake. But Dennis Lance bus is still not bad and it is still a bus for us to take to transport us around just like other bus models.Originally posted by CAIX:Dennis Lances may be cheaper, but the bus structure is no good. Very loud engines especially when the time it accelerate and it emits black smoke on the exhaust pipe. -
Umm, you're right, these are the advantage of the Lances, but the disadvantage of the bus is very loud engines especially when the time it accelerate and it emits black smoke on the exhaust pipe. The air-con is strong, like you've just said. Good comment !Originally posted by gorby107:But the air-con is strong and nice and I like to hear the sound and it is also low floor too only having one step to board and alight the bus. You sit at lower level is the best as there is leg space for your leg to rest but the rest is quite cramped for the upper part and the sideway part which you suddenly can fall off if the bus suddenly jerk or brake. But Dennis Lance bus is still not bad and it is still a bus for us to take to transport us around just like other bus models. -
here's the chassis pic of the O405 (the front is spare tyre, can ignore):
hope tat helps. -
Is that 12m? the front axle is kinda far awayOriginally posted by ^tamago^:here's the chassis pic of the O405 (the front is spare tyre, can ignore):
hope tat helps.
reg tamago's post theres OM447h and OM447ha wats the major difference between them and with the unrevised? -
I believe the letter "a" stands for aspirated?
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I feel SBST MB0405s beat every single bus-type when it comes to accelerating, unlike SMRT ones, SBST MB0405 gear-box simply switches gear faster when more gas is added. Unfortunately, the MB0405 can be quite a horror on highways with its not too wonderful top speed and loud engine. In contrast, SMRT ones cruise beautifully on highways. Although I prefer B10Ms on highways, the best candidate being the MKIII which in my opinion has similar top speed to the MKII but the engine is not that loud.
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top speed is limited due to speed limiter kicking in at 60kph. the O405 can speed. try recalling windy rides on NAC O405's on Svc 172 along Choa Chu Kang Rd. shiok.Originally posted by SBS1908B:I feel SBST MB0405s beat every single bus-type when it comes to accelerating, unlike SMRT ones, SBST MB0405 gear-box simply switches gear faster when more gas is added. Unfortunately, the MB0405 can be quite a horror on highways with its not too wonderful top speed and loud engine. In contrast, SMRT ones cruise beautifully on highways. Although I prefer B10Ms on highways, the best candidate being the MKIII which in my opinion has similar top speed to the MKII but the engine is not that loud. -
No. OM447h is also naturally aspirated engine.Originally posted by Halide:I believe the letter "a" stands for aspirated?
OM447hA is simply a revision and update to the OM447h engine. it has been quite a few years between the SBST version and the SMRTB version.
i can't confirm but it seems OM447hA and OM447hLA are no longer offered as engine options, leaving OM457hA, OM457hLA (O500LE) and M447hALG (OC500LE) as their successor. -
The engine model is OM447. h indicates that it is mounted horizontally. L means that it has an intercooler while A denotes a turbocharged engine. G is for engines which run on CNG. SBS got their O405 in 1990 while TIBS in 1994.Originally posted by ^tamago^:No. OM447h is also naturally aspirated engine.
OM447hA is simply a revision and update to the OM447h engine. it has been quite a few years between the SBST version and the SMRTB version.
i can't confirm but it seems OM447hA and OM447hLA are no longer offered as engine options, leaving OM457hA, OM457hLA (O500LE) and M447hALG (OC500LE) as their successor. -
The SBST O405 have a Mercedes W3E 110/2.2R 3-speed automatic gearbox which was designed for quick acceleration. The idea was not to hold up cars behind the bus on a congested city street. Unfortunately, high acceleration equals low top speed. TIBS O405 have a ZF4HP500 4-speed automatic gearbox which, performance wise is quite similar to the W3E boxes. But the ZF4HP500 has an over drive for better efficiency over prolonged movement.Originally posted by SBS1908B:I feel SBST MB0405s beat every single bus-type when it comes to accelerating, unlike SMRT ones, SBST MB0405 gear-box simply switches gear faster when more gas is added. Unfortunately, the MB0405 can be quite a horror on highways with its not too wonderful top speed and loud engine. In contrast, SMRT ones cruise beautifully on highways. Although I prefer B10Ms on highways, the best candidate being the MKIII which in my opinion has similar top speed to the MKII but the engine is not that loud.
The B10M Mk II and Mk III have the same engine; Volvo THD101GC, but different gearbox. The Mk II use ZF4HP500 while the Mk III use Voith DIWA851.2. Voith gearboxes are tuned for higher top speed which means sluggish starts. They do have an overdrive but it would only kick in at about 65-70 kmh. Hence, the Mk III, which are limited to 60 kmh, will not go more than 3rd, which is a ratio of 1:1 with no gain whatsoever. -
Thanks Suhirman, that explains why the mkII and mkIII sound similar when they are stationary.Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:The SBST O405 have a Mercedes W3E 110/2.2R 3-speed automatic gearbox which was designed for quick acceleration. The idea was not to hold up cars behind the bus on a congested city street. Unfortunately, high acceleration equals low top speed. TIBS O405 have a ZF4HP500 4-speed automatic gearbox which, performance wise is quite similar to the W3E boxes. But the ZF4HP500 has an over drive for better efficiency over prolonged movement.
The B10M Mk II and Mk III have the same engine; Volvo THD101GC, but different gearbox. The Mk II use ZF4HP500 while the Mk III use Voith DIWA851.2. Voith gearboxes are tuned for higher top speed which means sluggish starts. They do have an overdrive but it would only kick in at about 65-70 kmh. Hence, the Mk III, which are limited to 60 kmh, will not go more than 3rd, which is a ratio of 1:1 with no gain whatsoever. -
Originally posted by CAIX:
Arent Dennis Lance Euro-2 ??? hy are those still there
[b]
Dennis Lances may be cheaper, but the bus structure is no good. Very loud engines especially when the time it accelerate and it emits black smoke on the exhaust pipe.[/b]
DM3500 VS Lances -
Maybe the Lances that belch black smoke are those found in Malaysia? I noticed Malaysian operators don't maintain their fleets very well.Originally posted by SBS9828X:Arent Dennis Lance Euro-2 ??? hy are those still there
DM3500 VS Lances -
Regarding MB0405s, why do the MB0405s produce 4 diff sounds in each sub-type?
A: SMRT OAC MB0405s, they howl in last gear.
B: SMRT CAC and a few OAC MB0405s, they whir in last gear.
C: SBST OAC MB0405s (a few), they sound similar to CAC SMRT MB0405s in 2nd and 3rd gear.
D: SBST CAC and a few OAC MB0405s, they simply increase in pitch throughout 2nd to 3rd gear.
This question has been on my mind since I was young. I would be grateful if you can answer them.
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All MKIII JB have an overdrive which kicks in at 65km/h as well several other "Untouched" MKIIIsOriginally posted by The_Bus_Guide:The SBST O405 have a Mercedes W3E 110/2.2R 3-speed automatic gearbox which was designed for quick acceleration. The idea was not to hold up cars behind the bus on a congested city street. Unfortunately, high acceleration equals low top speed. TIBS O405 have a ZF4HP500 4-speed automatic gearbox which, performance wise is quite similar to the W3E boxes. But the ZF4HP500 has an over drive for better efficiency over prolonged movement.
The B10M Mk II and Mk III have the same engine; Volvo THD101GC, but different gearbox. The Mk II use ZF4HP500 while the Mk III use Voith DIWA851.2. Voith gearboxes are tuned for higher top speed which means sluggish starts. They do have an overdrive but it would only kick in at about 65-70 kmh. Hence, the Mk III, which are limited to 60 kmh, will not go more than 3rd, which is a ratio of 1:1 with no gain whatsoever.
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Unfortunately, Singaporean Lance also belch out black smoke. This is due to the unusual characteristic of the Cummins engine which has a long turbo lag. A turbo lag is a period where the engine does not get the extra power from the turbocharger as it takes time for the turbine to generate enough pressure to get the compressor working and the fuel/air mixture burned more efficiently. As such, the bus will move off slowly until the turbo kicks in with a surge and expels the remains of incompletely combusted gases.Originally posted by iveco:Maybe the Lances that belch black smoke are those found in Malaysia? I noticed Malaysian operators don't maintain their fleets very well. -
I think I know the answer to D. That sound is due to the hub-reduction axle on the rear wheels. Unlike the engine which slows down with an upchange in gears, the wheel will go faster. Hence an increasing pitch.Originally posted by SBS1908B:Regarding MB0405s, why do the MB0405s produce 4 diff sounds in each sub-type?
A: SMRT OAC MB0405s, they howl in last gear.
B: SMRT CAC and a few OAC MB0405s, they whir in last gear.
C: SBST OAC MB0405s (a few), they sound similar to CAC SMRT MB0405s in 2nd and 3rd gear.
D: SBST CAC and a few OAC MB0405s, they simply increase in pitch throughout 2nd to 3rd gear.
This question has been on my mind since I was young. I would be grateful if you can answer them.
Howling and whirring on the O405 can be attributed, among other things, to the torque convertor in the gearbox, the above mentioned hub-reduction axles or the exhaust. -
There are 2 known Mk III specimens with a ZF gearbox, SBS 876 and 877, the latter being a BBDEP SP. From a personal experience, there is no differences in terms of performance between a ZF and a Voith Mk III.Originally posted by SBS1908B:Thanks Suhirman, that explains why the mkII and mkIII sound similar when they are stationary. -
Wahhh...... must try 1 day.Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:There are 2 known Mk III specimens with a ZF gearbox, SBS 876 and 877, the latter being a BBDEP SP. From a personal experience, there is no differences in terms of performance between a ZF and a Voith Mk III. -
SBS876R is on BN 31.Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:There are 2 known Mk III specimens with a ZF gearbox, SBS 876 and 877, the latter being a BBDEP SP. From a personal experience, there is no differences in terms of performance between a ZF and a Voith Mk III.
yes, SBS877M is on BB 170/SP. usually cameos on svcs like 123, 156, 191 & 198. -
There are more than one bus model using CUmmins engine. Do they have similar problems too?Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:Unfortunately, Singaporean Lance also belch out black smoke. This is due to the unusual characteristic of the Cummins engine which has a long turbo lag. A turbo lag is a period where the engine does not get the extra power from the turbocharger as it takes time for the turbine to generate enough pressure to get the compressor working and the fuel/air mixture burned more efficiently. As such, the bus will move off slowly until the turbo kicks in with a surge and expels the remains of incompletely combusted gases.