MBO405
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The other model with distinct turbo lag would be the LT10 on the Leyland Olympian. The 6BT on the Dart and the M11 on the Trident are less obvious.Originally posted by iveco:There are more than one bus model using CUmmins engine. Do they have similar problems too?
In general, all turbocharged engines will have a turbo lag. What matters is how fast the turbo can kick in. -
The chassis shown is NOT of the O 405, more like the newer generation OC 500 instead !
Very obvious hint is the dashboard & steering-wheel..O 405's have never looked like that. It's the curved type like on O 305 & MAN SL 252 instead.Originally posted by ^tamago^:here's the chassis pic of the O405 (the front is spare tyre, can ignore):
hope tat helps. -
'A' as in OM 447 hA refers to the turbocharged version of the OM 447h which originally was naturally aspirated, which by the way is not denoted by any alphabets.Originally posted by Halide:I believe the letter "a" stands for aspirated?
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What I mean is do other Cummins-engined vehicles belch black smoke like the Lances, whether Euro-II or otherwise.Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:The other model with distinct turbo lag would be the LT10 on the Leyland Olympian. The 6BT on the Dart and the M11 on the Trident are less obvious.
In general, all turbocharged engines will have a turbo lag. What matters is how fast the turbo can kick in. -
Did Daimler-Benz build rear axles and dashboards for the Machine factory of Augsburg & Nuremberg? I notice the MAN rear axle resembles an O405 one.Originally posted by hseochin:The chassis shown is NOT of the O 405, more like the newer generation OC 500 instead !
Very obvious hint is the dashboard & steering-wheel..O 405's have never looked like that. It's the curved type like on O 305 & MAN SL 252 instead. -
As i mentioned in earlier posts, OM 447 hA is turbocharged version & OM 447 h the earlier naturally aspirated version.
I believe the OM 447 series no longer offered in Europe whereby it's been superceded by the newer OM 457 series which no longer feature naturally aspirated version but either OM 457 hA or more the norm now & in the future, OM 457 hLA (with intercooling). OM 457 series not used on the O 405 but on the O 405's successor the Citaro instead. Also used on the Travego, the successor to the O 404.Originally posted by ^tamago^:No. OM447h is also naturally aspirated engine.
OM447hA is simply a revision and update to the OM447h engine. it has been quite a few years between the SBST version and the SMRTB version.
i can't confirm but it seems OM447hA and OM447hLA are no longer offered as engine options, leaving OM457hA, OM457hLA (O500LE) and M447hALG (OC500LE) as their successor. -
The dashboards & axle hubs on some MAN & M-B do indeed look very identical, in appearances, shape & size.
I do believe MAN & M-B do share the use of some components, whereby either 1 party makes for both party's use or (less likely) both source from the same 3rd party maker.
Not only in their heavy commercial vehicle models, but also in the light weight class models as well, like the M-B Sprinter & VW LT31 etc.Originally posted by iveco:Did Daimler-Benz build rear axles and dashboards for the Machine factory of Augsburg & Nuremberg? I notice the MAN rear axle resembles an O405 one. -
You mean VW group is connected to MAN in some way?Originally posted by hseochin:The dashboards & axle hubs on some MAN & M-B do indeed look very identical, in appearances, shape & size.
I do believe MAN & M-B do share the use of some components, whereby either 1 party makes for both party's use or (less likely) both source from the same 3rd party maker.
Not only in their heavy commercial vehicle models, but also in the light weight class models as well, like the M-B Sprinter & VW LT31 etc.
A side note, the Merc Sprinters are sold in US under the "Freightliner" brand. -
To my knowledge, VW & MAN are related companies.
So in the light class commercial vehicle sector, you'll find VW vans, trucks.
For heavier weight class commercial vehicles, it's the MAN trucks, buses & coaches & bus-chassi.
Daimler-Benz bough over Freightliner trucks many years ago.
But i find the Americans don't want to 'lose face' to see their Yankee brand being eaten away by a German brand, so Daimler appeared to 'accomodate' their concerns by not displaying the M-B logo openly on Sprinters sold in USA ?!
Actually i believe those buying the Sprinter in USA would quickly fix back the higher class M-B star & badge while throwing away the lousier Yankee brand logo !!
I'll most certainly do that, since i know who really originated the Sprinters !
With Sprinters sold in Latin America & almost all the rest of the world, you don't tend to encounter such 'mis-labeled' branding i seem to observe ! My stand is that a Mercedes HAS got to be known as a Mercedes anywhere in the world or moon etc. NO exceptions whatsoever.
With the Asian edition of the M-B 100 D vans & mini-buses there were similar vehicles branded as Ssanyong Istanas instead of the (real original) M-B logo & those in Korea who bough such Istanas promptly discarded the Korean branded logos & replaced them with the M-B logos, as a matter of course !Originally posted by iveco:You mean VW group is connected to MAN in some way?
A side note, the Merc Sprinters are sold in US under the "Freightliner" brand. -
For me the MB O 405 Is the best citybuses that they ever produced,Rugged,Durable and good for stop and go road but mostly wobble on high speeds especially at Highways.Overall it is superior over Scanias,Volvos or other brands.Built to Last!
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Agreed the O 405 is the superior class of citybus, over almost any other i can think of !! Not sure if the newer Citaro can maintain or improve over O 405 & even if so, i'll overall expect only 'marginal incremental' improvements over O 405
But what you mean by 'wobble' on high speeds ? Did you check the condition of the tyres/suspension ? M-B's i find them mostly behave very well @ higher speeds, seems even better than @ slow speeds ! Not surprising because the O 405 also has a very important role in the M-B O-Bahn system, where road speeds of 100 km/h are normal.
M-B's have (with few exceptions) produced buses & coaches with top class suspension ride comfort, whether in the spring or air suspended categories.
Those with V8 engines (like OH 1627 L here) offer top class silence as well !
For people serious about fine class omnibus travel, whether citybus or out-station coach, i find no overall better make around !Originally posted by carbikebus:For me the MB O 405 Is the best citybuses that they ever produced,Rugged,Durable and good for stop and go road but mostly wobble on high speeds especially at Highways.Overall it is superior over Scanias,Volvos or other brands.Built to Last! -
MBO405's are very wonderful. Legroom adequate, comfortable ride. Hardly wobbles along our roads. Can reach a good speed, and also air-con pretty okay. Compare this to any MK IV, and I dare say MBO405 beats them all (maybe won't beat DM3500.) If only we had more MBO405s on our roads... JE deserved to have them. Thank god I live there.
Now we know why Clementi is called the DUMP for buses... 
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Yeah, CLE is quite a DUMP alright. It is the heaven for Mk IIIs (since BBDEP has the lion's share for JB buses). At least we got the VO3X dominant on some routes, as well as some Habits from 106.Originally posted by Donavan:MBO405's are very wonderful. Legroom adequate, comfortable ride. Hardly wobbles along our roads. Can reach a good speed, and also air-con pretty okay. Compare this to any MK IV, and I dare say MBO405 beats them all (maybe won't beat DM3500.) If only we had more MBO405s on our roads... JE deserved to have them. Thank god I live there. Now we know why Clementi is called the DUMP for buses...
Anyway, is SLBP any better? Only got LO3X as ADD. According to some forumite here, good buses don't get to serve on 174. In general, the far west doesn't get very good buses. -
So sad. Lucky JE Int got variety of DT, VSO (1 on 143, hardly seen though.
), VO3x, LO3x, MBO405s, MK II, III, IV (All variations.). Heard some ppl dare say LO3x is better than VO3x lol. Well, not competing about depot. 
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Ah, but JUR is majority SLBP control. Buses with defects are sent over there.Originally posted by Donavan:So sad. Lucky JE Int got variety of DT, VSO (1 on 143, hardly seen though.), VO3x, LO3x, MBO405s, MK II, III, IV (All variations.). Heard some ppl dare say LO3x is better than VO3x lol. Well, not competing about depot.
Trust me, 97 had better buses before the NEL rationalisation took place. And 99 fleet is certainly better than 98. -
Certainly prefer the mercedes over the scanias. Sometimes I wished BNdepot should have kept the mercedes and gotten rid of the scanias instead . I do agree with carbikebus , the mercedes maybe be 10 years old plus but they are still doing good on the roads . Volvo buses are pretty alright but I dont like some of the Mark IV buses with irritating screeching fanbelt sounds.
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Well, the recent changes to svc 39 must have pissed you off big time. From past threads, you don't seem to like the Scania brand much, do you?Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:Certainly prefer the mercedes over the scanias. Sometimes I wished BNdepot should have kept the mercedes and gotten rid of the scanias instead . I do agree with carbikebus , the mercedes maybe be 10 years old plus but they are still doing good on the roads . Volvo buses are pretty alright but I dont like some of the Mark IV buses with irritating screeching fanbelt sounds.
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I'm sorry i don't take basic thing seriously,I'm more into practical.They do wobble a bit even though some of them are capable of reaching 110km/h due to the tyre size.(22.0 compared to coaches 22.5).O-Bahn?I am not surprised even a 600cc bike whack up to 180km/h!Originally posted by hseochin:Agreed the O 405 is the superior class of citybus, over almost any other i can think of !! Not sure if the newer Citaro can maintain or improve over O 405 & even if so, i'll overall expect only 'marginal incremental' improvements over O 405
But what you mean by 'wobble' on high speeds ? Did you check the condition of the tyres/suspension ? M-B's i find them mostly behave very well @ higher speeds, seems even better than @ slow speeds ! Not surprising because the O 405 also has a very important role in the M-B O-Bahn system, where road speeds of 100 km/h are normal.
M-B's have (with few exceptions) produced buses & coaches with top class suspension ride comfort, whether in the spring or air suspended categories.
Those with V8 engines (like OH 1627 L here) offer top class silence as well !
For people serious about fine class omnibus travel, whether citybus or out-station coach, i find no overall better make around ! -
I notice the O 405 used by SBST uses high & low profile tyres.
The standard tyre type on O 405 (as is the case with many other citybuses in more recent years) are the low profile type, so as to minimise the height of the 1st step.
So on which types of tyres you find 'wobble' ? Or both ?
I wonder how through are the tyre maintenence done by SBST, as i believe they do their own maintenence maybe occasionally consulting with C&C M-B for advice only.
I notice some highway coaches used in Malaysia (even like OH 1627 L) do have very vibrasive & noisy tyres ~ 100 km/h. But no similar problems detected if from same bus-chassis model via another operator ! So i strongly suspect the inconsistent standards of maintenence & also possibly different tyre specs used the prime causes.
O-Bahn used in Germany & Australia since 20 years ago. Maybe also in some other cities in more recent times. There you have O 305 GG & O 405 GG i.e. even double-articulated (single-decker) versions & 100 km/h speeds 'normal'.
I do believe M-B is generally very 'fussy' on details in bus engineering so if they can let it run, then the 'standard' would have to be there 1st.
Motorbike of course no problem to do even perhaps 300 km/h with very fast acceleration even with small cc engine since their mass is negligable.
They require mainly power instead of torque to do the job.
But in heavier vehicles likes buses & coaches, then torque comes 1st before power instead. Very high torque even with somewhat lower power ratings the resultant acceleration & speeds still quite good.Originally posted by carbikebus:I'm sorry i don't take basic thing seriously,I'm more into practical.They do wobble a bit even though some of them are capable of reaching 110km/h due to the tyre size.(22.0 compared to coaches 22.5).O-Bahn?I am not surprised even a 600cc bike whack up to 180km/h! -
Haha,My cousin once board a MAN Citybus at Germany AutoBahn and the spedd is icredible 110km/h yet the motorists there are still considerate and safety conscious unlike here where you reached 70 km/h theres always cars/vans & Taxis will chase you for nothing!Originally posted by hseochin:I notice the O 405 used by SBST uses high & low profile tyres.
The standard tyre type on O 405 (as is the case with many other citybuses in more recent years) are the low profile type, so as to minimise the height of the 1st step.
So on which types of tyres you find 'wobble' ? Or both ?
I wonder how through are the tyre maintenence done by SBST, as i believe they do their own maintenence maybe occasionally consulting with C&C M-B for advice only.
I notice some highway coaches used in Malaysia (even like OH 1627 L) do have very vibrasive & noisy tyres ~ 100 km/h. But no similar problems detected if from same bus-chassis model via another operator ! So i strongly suspect the inconsistent standards of maintenence & also possibly different tyre specs used the prime causes.
O-Bahn used in Germany & Australia since 20 years ago. Maybe also in some other cities in more recent times. There you have O 305 GG & O 405 GG i.e. even double-articulated (single-decker) versions & 100 km/h speeds 'normal'.
I do believe M-B is generally very 'fussy' on details in bus engineering so if they can let it run, then the 'standard' would have to be there 1st.
Motorbike of course no problem to do even perhaps 300 km/h with very fast acceleration even with small cc engine since their mass is negligable.
They require mainly power instead of torque to do the job.
But in heavier vehicles likes buses & coaches, then torque comes 1st before power instead. Very high torque even with somewhat lower power ratings the resultant acceleration & speeds still quite good. -
Orso on sv10,16. I have taken SBS876R many a times, the bus does sound like a MK II when changing of gears as it accelerates.Originally posted by ^tamago^:SBS876R is on BN 31.
yes, SBS877M is on BB 170/SP. usually cameos on svcs like 123, 156, 191 & 198. -
From my observations, the Germans tend to be able to handle high speeds well & still being practically safe drivers the same time !
As such, i do believe German makes of vehicles are engineered with very high priorties on the ability to handle high speeds in a safe & comfortable manner, even to the extent their vehicles do often end up being more expensive to create as such. But i'll definitely conclude it's money well spent for a premium class of vehicle from them.
A very important point worth noting i have to state is that high speed does NOT have to mean 'inconsiderate' or 'unsafe', which unfortunately seems to be the tone some jokers here like to drum into people here.Originally posted by carbikebus:Haha,My cousin once board a MAN Citybus at Germany AutoBahn and the spedd is icredible 110km/h yet the motorists there are still considerate and safety conscious unlike here where you reached 70 km/h theres always cars/vans & Taxis will chase you for nothing! -
In local terms,"Kiasu"smaller vehicles here feels that they're losing face if bigger vehicles like buses or lorries overtook themOriginally posted by hseochin:From my observations, the Germans tend to be able to handle high speeds well & still being practically safe drivers the same time !
As such, i do believe German makes of vehicles are engineered with very high priorties on the ability to handle high speeds in a safe & comfortable manner, even to the extent their vehicles do often end up being more expensive to create as such. But i'll definitely conclude it's money well spent for a premium class of vehicle from them.
A very important point worth noting i have to state is that high speed does NOT have to mean 'inconsiderate' or 'unsafe', which unfortunately seems to be the tone some jokers here like to drum into people here. -
I agree, the mkIIIs on 089 always accelerate damn fast when they turn into TPE from SKG bcos other motorists particularly those inconsiderate ones often try to squeeze in front of the bus. I find that strange and your theory may be right, bcos the mkIIIs are already just behind vehicles in front and people on crowded buses risk falling when a car cuts in front of the bus.Originally posted by carbikebus:In local terms,"Kiasu"smaller vehicles here feels that they're losing face if bigger vehicles like buses or lorries overtook them
PS: I ever saw a 088 VO3X BC who opened the window and yelled at a lorry that cut in front of him and braked hard. He shouted:" *&%^$, LE LAO BEH GAI LOU AR?!" Translation for those who do not understand, "&%&*^ your mother, your father's road is it?!" -
that's true especially for taxis..ever notice that when the taxis are in front of you they'll go at around 30-40km/hr (esp those empty ones waiting to pick up passengers) & when you try to overtake them they'll suddenly speed up & u have to fall back behind them again.Originally posted by carbikebus:In local terms,"Kiasu"smaller vehicles here feels that they're losing face if bigger vehicles like buses or lorries overtook them