Technical questions about buses , please post here.
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SBS161 has the muffler system similar to the 3rd gen O.405s (ie SMRT O.405s and TransitLink O.405s). The turbo versions of the O.405 sound like a quiet O.405G. From 1998/99 all O.405s came standard with turbocharged engines (which leads me to believe that the vehicles which have Volgren bodies may have had the chassis stored for some time, because they are new in around 2000, and do not have a turbocharged engine).Originally posted by hseochin:The engine block may be the same, which won't be surprising to me in view of the almost identical cc rating !
But, in the context of what you wrote, you said MAN uses OM 447 hLA in Euro-3 form on the MAN 18.250 ?? So that'll mean to me that OM 447 hLA (in it's 'standard' configuration or feature set etc.) is used in entirety on the MAN, which i sense cannot be too likely @ all. More likely M-B & MAN may share the same engine block BUT the final feature set comprising of the hardware & software aspects of the engine system & peripheral device connections would tend to be different, to cater to the different design priorties & preferences of each marque, thereby resulting in overall different engines from the packaging & perhaps even marketing point of view.
The later versions of the O 405 (like those used by TransitLink & SMRT-TIBS)
do sound different from the earlier versions used by SBST, with the exception perhaps of 1 unit (SBS 161) on SBST's fleet. The later versions of the O 405 G used here are expected to be Euro-2 complaint with charge-cooling i.e. OM 447 hLA, instead of the OM 447 hA & OM 447 h among the [rigid] O 405 fleet in earlier versions here. Of course different exhaust perpheral fixtures can produce very different 'notes' from the engine ! Not only on buses, but also on trucks, cars & motorcycles as well.
As for the Euro III OM447hA, as I said, the block itself is standard OM447hA, but the MAN componentry and EMS are different, hence it does not sound like an O.405. However, it has its own MAN designation (which I do not recall off the top of my head). -
Doesn't MAN build their own engines anymore?Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:As for the Euro III OM447hA, as I said, the block itself is standard OM447hA, but the MAN componentry and EMS are different, hence it does not sound like an O.405. However, it has its own MAN designation (which I do not recall off the top of my head). -
usually for franchised buses (i.e. SBST) what kind of fuel (esp what type of diesel fuel) would be used?
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Wrong term. In Singapore, they aren't called "franchised bus companies".Originally posted by SGEMP:usually for franchised buses (i.e. SBST) -
Yes, but they traditionally have always sourced the engine blocks from Mercedes, and then modified it accordingly. Call it a "poor man's mercedes" if you will (they are a cheaper, but just as quality alternative to Merc).Originally posted by iveco:Doesn't MAN build their own engines anymore? -
And is it because of this that made MAN more powerful or cheaper?Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:Yes, but they traditionally have always sourced the engine blocks from Mercedes, and then modified it accordingly. Call it a "poor man's mercedes" if you will (they are a cheaper, but just as quality alternative to Merc). -
In such cases it'll assume the steps are little higher than 'normal' step height, so i'll expect any B12MA or B10M with only 3 such steps to still have a higher floor height than say the O 405 or N113CRB.
For M-B current low-floor articulated buses, the Citaro G has zero-step.
I also believe the O 500 U might be low enough to specify with zero or 1-step.Originally posted by carbikebus:So the B12MA did have 3 steps which is similiar to the B10Ms here?Are there any low steps(3 or less) Merc articulate currently?Thanks
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You sure the O 405 with Volgren bodies here don't have turbocharged engines ?
You checked by actual physical viewing the engine, i presume ?
Coming back to the MAN 18.250, my stand remains that those used on CW1 cannot possibly be Euro-3 versions although highly likely they use the older 12-litre engines of same or very close cc to the M-B OM 447 hLA. The CW1 buses either Euro-1 or Euro-2 the most.
Also, when one says 'OM447hA', that refers to an M-B engine just as when one says 'D8766' etc. that refers to a MAN engine. To achieve Euro-3 level, OM447hLA is the more likely version than OM447hA only owing to charge-cooling used BUT my senses still tell me no Euro-3 for OM447hLA even since they have Euro-3 for OM457hLA, which i believe uses the same block as the 447's.Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:SBS161 has the muffler system similar to the 3rd gen O.405s (ie SMRT O.405s and TransitLink O.405s). The turbo versions of the O.405 sound like a quiet O.405G. From 1998/99 all O.405s came standard with turbocharged engines (which leads me to believe that the vehicles which have Volgren bodies may have had the chassis stored for some time, because they are new in around 2000, and do not have a turbocharged engine).
As for the Euro III OM447hA, as I said, the block itself is standard OM447hA, but the MAN componentry and EMS are different, hence it does not sound like an O.405. However, it has its own MAN designation (which I do not recall off the top of my head). -
MAN engines does seem slightly more powerful or the same output than M-B engines of roughly similar cc, depending on model.
Price-wise, seems very close but some MAN's can be more expensive while others slightly cheaper than M-B's on similar GVW class.Originally posted by SGEMP:And is it because of this that made MAN more powerful or cheaper? -
I thot it is cheap.Originally posted by hseochin:MAN engines does seem slightly more powerful or the same output than M-B engines of roughly similar cc, depending on model.
Price-wise, seems very close but some MAN's can be more expensive while others slightly cheaper than M-B's on similar GVW class.
Little did I know of this.
Thank you for your info. -
So did I. Especially since this brand is so popular in Malaysia.Originally posted by SGEMP:I thot it is cheap. -
Okie Thanks,Let's say if i'm a customer and i want to purchase a customised articulate Scania OmniLine buses(which they don't have)is it possible?Originally posted by hseochin:In such cases it'll assume the steps are little higher than 'normal' step height, so i'll expect any B12MA or B10M with only 3 such steps to still have a higher floor height than say the O 405 or N113CRB.
For M-B current low-floor articulated buses, the Citaro G has zero-step.
I also believe the O 500 U might be low enough to specify with zero or 1-step. -
Okie Thanks,Let's say if i'm a customer and i want to purchase a customised articulate Scania OmniLine buses(which they don't have)is it possible?Originally posted by hseochin:In such cases it'll assume the steps are little higher than 'normal' step height, so i'll expect any B12MA or B10M with only 3 such steps to still have a higher floor height than say the O 405 or N113CRB.
For M-B current low-floor articulated buses, the Citaro G has zero-step.
I also believe the O 500 U might be low enough to specify with zero or 1-step. -
When you say 'cheap', how cheap is 'cheap' to you ?
Must it be say same or below the price of Japanese/Korean/Russian etc. buses then only it's 'cheap' ??
To me, i've always considered MAN as the 'BMW' in the bus/coach/truck world.
Like a BMW car (relative to a M-B car), a MAN bus/coach can be quite close in price (& technical specifications too) to a M-B bus/coach, maybe slightly cheaper in most cases that's about it. MAN is certainly not exactly 'cheap' when in the company of say Japanese/Korean/Russian marques. Being a quality German marque (2nd to M-B i'll consider) MAN prices therefore would not be as cheap as these others e.g.
MAN's popularity in Malaysia i'll attribute it to intensive marketing efforts there since from 10 years ago. Mercedes-Benz has always been & remains popular there too, though in recent years due to the lack of newer models introduced there sales volume may have dropped somewhat as the M-B bus-chassi sold there mostly the older OH series & only quite recently was the new O 500 models sold there & now their popularity there is picking up due to encouraging response to their new generation models.
I don't find all Malaysian bus/coach operators to be the 'cheapskate' sort whereby only 'cheap' than they buy. Some are still like that but i notice quite a few others are nowadays willing to pay more for a quality marque (like the public bus & many private coach operators in Singapore) so ensuring that the quality marques like MAN, Scania, M-B (even with their higher end V8 models) getting sales in Malaysia.Originally posted by iveco:So did I. Especially since this brand is so popular in Malaysia. -
Scania Omniline i believe is a integrally constructed CBU bus with original bodywork from them.
If you want customisation, then perhaps they might sell you the bus in chassi form if they also produce a chassi-only version or if not, they might offer you the base platform of the monocoque body (like M-B OC 500 LF) with its more complicated structures then you take that to a 3rd party bodybuilder to supply the customised body to your needs ?
Or if what you're saying is that you want an articulated version of model which they only have in rigid form, then it gets more complicated since it involves the chassi. Then i'll say look into how they make the chassi in the 1st place. If they use a modular concept where they 'split' the chassi into say 5 modules or sub-sections (like what M-B does with their new O 500 models) they might be able to combine the required modules to make a non-standard articulated chassi for you ??Originally posted by carbikebus:Okie Thanks,Let's say if i'm a customer and i want to purchase a customised articulate Scania OmniLine buses(which they don't have)is it possible? -
If you look up the OMV's of say the MAN & M-B used by SJE,
some their MAN does cost more than some their M-B.Originally posted by SGEMP:I thot it is cheap.
Little did I know of this.
Thank you for your info. -
As of I know the Scannia has an enormous power loss through its rear axis.It is a guzzler and is execptionay weak when it comes to inclines.There were some a/c and non a/c built. Most of the n a/c version were converted further acclerating power loss.there were plenty on 410 during the mid 90's but their number were drastically cut doen to two in 2004.(one on the white plate the other on the green plate)Now they are all gone on 410 and are quite a rare sight in Singapore.I still remembered there was a period of time in 2002 when almost all the non a/c single deckers serving 410 suddenly was replaced by the Mercedes-Bemz 0305.Than after a short period of tie the double deckers started to dissapper being replaced by 0405 almost most of the scannia N113 were gone.sad.loved that bus for it smoothness and quietness! BTW i think that the UMW dennis lance (TIBS) with 180KW of power has a turbolag problem.Whenever it is in first gear without changing to second gear, there would be a sudden powerful surge in accleratio anyone noticed that?Originally posted by iveco:1. How powerful is the Scania L94UB?
2. Does the Neoplan Centroliner use the same engine as the MAN 24.310? -
Cummins engines are notorious for a very long turbo lag, especially when coupled with a ZF transmission.Originally posted by Vehicle_builder:BTW i think that the UMW dennis lance (TIBS) with 180KW of power has a turbolag problem.Whenever it is in first gear without changing to second gear, there would be a sudden powerful surge in accleratio anyone noticed that? -
Turbo-lag also plagues the LO3X. The LO3X also uses Cummins if I am not mistaken.Originally posted by Vehicle_builder:As of I know the Scannia has an enormous power loss through its rear axis.It is a guzzler and is execptionay weak when it comes to inclines.There were some a/c and non a/c built. Most of the n a/c version were converted further acclerating power loss.there were plenty on 410 during the mid 90's but their number were drastically cut doen to two in 2004.(one on the white plate the other on the green plate)Now they are all gone on 410 and are quite a rare sight in Singapore.I still remembered there was a period of time in 2002 when almost all the non a/c single deckers serving 410 suddenly was replaced by the Mercedes-Bemz 0305.Than after a short period of tie the double deckers started to dissapper being replaced by 0405 almost most of the scannia N113 were gone.sad.loved that bus for it smoothness and quietness! BTW i think that the UMW dennis lance (TIBS) with 180KW of power has a turbolag problem.Whenever it is in first gear without changing to second gear, there would be a sudden powerful surge in accleratio anyone noticed that?
As for the L94UB? I reckon it is not as powerful as the N113. But all I know is that it is relatively quiet. Yeah.........I would like to know more about this bus. -
I feel the turbo lag in LOs does not affect acceleration but, at high speeds u can feel it...Originally posted by SBS1908B:Turbo-lag also plagues the LO3X. The LO3X also uses Cummins if I am not mistaken.
As for the L94UB? I reckon it is not as powerful as the N113. But all I know is that it is relatively quiet. Yeah.........I would like to know more about this bus. -
About Different Types of EDS
There's 2 different types of EDS; eg between the box-bendies and Habit Bus. The former uses flouoroscent lights to illuminate the EDS at night while the latter is self-illuminating.
What are the names used to describe these 2 different types of EDS? -
1) Why is 2756R and a few other DM3500s roaring? I've heard of the other MKIVs afflicted with this, but I am surprised to see 2756R having the same problem. What is the roaring caused by?
2) The gearbox configuration of 9423E. Why is it unlike the other VO3X, this one consistently drags its gears, with no sign of the lock-up clutch and drives sluggishly down expressways?
Thank you. -
Originally posted by SBS1908B:
Loose fanbelts like the MK3s?
1) Why is 2756R and a few other DM3500s roaring? I've heard of the other MKIVs afflicted with this, but I am surprised to see 2756R having the same problem. What is the roaring caused by?
2) The gearbox configuration of 9423E. Why is it unlike the other VO3X, this one consistently drags its gears, with no sign of the lock-up clutch and drives sluggishly down expressways?
Thank you. -
I think it's the Radiator fan that cause the roaring,Example SBS2775K Of S82Originally posted by SBS1908B:1) Why is 2756R and a few other DM3500s roaring? I've heard of the other MKIVs afflicted with this, but I am surprised to see 2756R having the same problem. What is the roaring caused by?
Thank you. -
Yes, by looking at it and listening to it. And by the simple logic that the turbocharged variant for the rigid would be too powerful considering they are governed to 60km/h. We'll agree to disagree on the Euro III OM447hLA engine block thenOriginally posted by hseochin:You sure the O 405 with Volgren bodies here don't have turbocharged engines ?
You checked by actual physical viewing the engine, i presume ?