CW3: Jurong East Int - Larkin/Kota Raya II Ter
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Originally posted by hseochin:
If one were to observe the design of the checkpoint complex & the roads leading into & out from it, much indeed can & ought to be done to improve on them to increase traffic discharge efficientcy (they can perhaps get some hints from the giant size new Johor complex coming up just next door !) while maintainng whatever perceived existing levels of 'stringent security checks' !
They don't need to cramp all cars, buses, trucks into just a few narrow discharge lanes before 'releasing' them onto the highways here ! Are they trying to say that they only have 'so few' manpower available to perform security duty that only these few men/women can do the job that that's why they 'need' to squeeze everybody thru the stupid bottlenecks ?!??
They really have 'no money' to hire more security staff, open more counters, build more lanes etc. to do all the necessary to not only maintain security but ALSO to improve both human & vehicular traffic discharge efficiencies ?!??
I most honestly cannot believe that ! Surely they cannot just rely on just those 'few' exisiting security staff to man the thousands of people & vehicles passing in/out daily ! They can perhaps learn something from the wide spread out concept used in the Malaysian toll booths e.g. of spreading out the traffic such that everybody is still 'inspected upon' before being 'passed' to go i.e. nobody 'escapes' paying their tolls & what not ? Surely it cannot mean that you must have just 2 or 3 narrow lanes then the security is 'good' else with many more lanes the security 'drops' ?!?? That's nonsense logic because it's not asking the existing few staff to mann many more lanes BUT to hire more new personnel to mann the increased lanes instead ! The nett result in security levels is practically the same except that more can be processed in the same time ! Surely the Singapore Government is rich & competent enough to acquire more such personnel to do the jobs ! No funds is certainly no excuse here, if that's what they thinking of saying !!!! No land here to build more spread out lanes they can resort to building more multi-storey lanes instead. No excuses !
It's only money involved, something they are well rich enough to afford !!
Whatever those few security men/women are now doing surely they can produce more such personnel thru more hiring & training etc. such that each & everyone of them can produce the same standard of work output WITHOUT compromising in overall security 'stringentness' !
The end result then is that whatever exisiting security levels are maintained if not enhanced AND the same time improving on the human & vehicular processing discharge rates hence processing efficientcies thru their complex.
I don't think they need to wait for the new giant size Johor complex to set the standard before learning from them ! Singapore is supposed to be more 'advanced' & 'efficient' etc.
Yes, much indeed can be done to improve the design of the Tuas checkpoint AND efficiency of the immigration and security check procedures indeed. But have you wondered why the usually efficient and smart Singapore authorities have not taken steps to make this improvement? Why spend money on hiring more manpower and renovating/re-designing the immigration building and improving the workflow when that will encourage more Singaporeans to spend money overseas? Just keep to the same old ways, make it more inefficient and jammed so that'll teach us Singaporeans not to venture over the causeway. Put yourself in their shoes and you'll understand the reason behind all this.
On the other hand, for Malaysian authorities, there's plenty of reason to improve on their immigration efficiency => to encourage more Singaporeans to go over and spend their SGD, thereby improving the Malaysian economy.
Makes sense now, doesn't it? -
But then, Singapore Tourism Board has been promoting in Malaysia Christmas HIPPO buses, The Art of Star Wars, ZoukOut, and Mid-night shopping at Orchard and Marina Bay. It has advertisements in Malaysian newspapers very often these days. If the inefficiency is meant for discouraging locals from going out, then it is also nullifying the effort of the tourism board in attracting foreign visitors who primarily enter through the two land links.Originally posted by surfbabe:Yes, much indeed can be done to improve the design of the Tuas checkpoint AND efficiency of the immigration and security check procedures indeed. But have you wondered why the usually efficient and smart Singapore authorities have not taken steps to make this improvement? Why spend money on hiring more manpower and renovating/re-designing the immigration building and improving the workflow when that will encourage more Singaporeans to spend money overseas? Just keep to the same old ways, make it more inefficient and jammed so that'll teach us Singaporeans not to venture over the causeway. Put yourself in their shoes and you'll understand the reason behind all this.
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Makes sense now, doesn't it? -
It is not abt inefficency...Originally posted by hannwei:But then, Singapore Tourism Board has been promoting in Malaysia Christmas HIPPO buses, The Art of Star Wars, ZoukOut, and Mid-night shopping at Orchard and Marina Bay. It has advertisements in Malaysian newspapers very often these days. If the inefficiency is meant for discouraging locals from going out, then it is also nullifying the effort of the tourism board in attracting foreign visitors who primarily enter through the two land links.
The govt has been trying to reduce headcounts at all govt dept these recent years... Causing all these mess
Also, the jam at commerical veh lanes at Tuas towards SG these days is because most use Tuas these days, in fact lorries carrying chemical and live polutry HAVE to use Tuas CIQ
Worst the recent weekend, there was a 100% increase of cars in and out, causing server to slow down. It would be worst if all lanes are opened, further slowing down the server speed -
I assume there may be about 30 x 2 (inward and outward) x 2 (Tuas and Woodlands) = 120 car lanes in total. If each lane clears 1 car per minute, and each car is packed with 5 people, then the maximum load is about 120 x 1 x 5 = 600 people per minute. What kinds of algorithm, software, server and network is the Singapore immigration department using that make it not capable of clearing 600 people per minute? Even the "backward" neighbor at the other end of the Tuas bridge has commercial systems that are able to process quite comfortably 800 to 1000 similar requests per minute.Originally posted by sbst275:Worst the recent weekend, there was a 100% increase of cars in and out, causing server to slow down. It would be worst if all lanes are opened, further slowing down the server speed -
You have to understand this, the recent weekend, there was really too many cars at the CIQ.. But that does not mean no reasons to get the server upgradedOriginally posted by hannwei:I assume there may be about 30 x 2 (inward and outward) x 2 (Tuas and Woodlands) = 120 car lanes in total. If each lane clears 1 car per minute, and each car is packed with 5 people, then the maximum load is about 120 x 1 x 5 = 600 people per minute. What kinds of algorithm, software, server and network is the Singapore immigration department using that make it not capable of clearing 600 people per minute? Even the "backward" neighbor at the other end of the Tuas bridge has commercial systems that are able to process quite comfortably 800 to 1000 similar requests per minute.
Just bear with it, wait till everyone hui to, the higher ends will stop this... -
It is true that STB is aggressively promoting Singapore, not only in M'sia but in other countries as well. However their efforts in M'sia appear to be sabotaged by the combined efforts ICA and LTA - ICA's inefficiency in dealing with the traffic flow at the checkpoints and LTA's imposing the VEP. Just put yourself in the shoes of a M'sian...if you had to consider so many factors like timing and cost to go over the causeway, not to mention the higher costs in S'pore (food, shopping, etc), how attractive would S'pore be? Is there anything that you really can't get in M'sia that you can get in S'pore?Originally posted by hannwei:But then, Singapore Tourism Board has been promoting in Malaysia Christmas HIPPO buses, The Art of Star Wars, ZoukOut, and Mid-night shopping at Orchard and Marina Bay. It has advertisements in Malaysian newspapers very often these days. If the inefficiency is meant for discouraging locals from going out, then it is also nullifying the effort of the tourism board in attracting foreign visitors who primarily enter through the two land links. -
Besides KL & JB, nothing else to see. I think most ads on Malaysian newspapers will attract Malaysians to Singapore.Originally posted by surfbabe:It is true that STB is aggressively promoting Singapore, not only in M'sia but in other countries as well. However their efforts in M'sia appear to be sabotaged by the combined efforts ICA and LTA - ICA's inefficiency in dealing with the traffic flow at the checkpoints and LTA's imposing the VEP. Just put yourself in the shoes of a M'sian...if you had to consider so many factors like timing and cost to go over the causeway, not to mention the higher costs in S'pore (food, shopping, etc), how attractive would S'pore be? Is there anything that you really can't get in M'sia that you can get in S'pore? -
If so, then why wasn't there a jam at the M'sian side of 2nd link? Everyone breezed through the M'sian checkpoint but got stuck at the S'porean side!!!Originally posted by sbst275:You have to understand this, the recent weekend, there was really too many cars at the CIQ -
As I had mentioned this before, M'sian side of 2nd link is faster, but stuck because Singapore have security checks and some counters were closed (almost half).Originally posted by surfbabe:If so, then why wasn't there a jam at the M'sian side of 2nd link? Everyone breezed through the M'sian checkpoint but got stuck at the S'porean side!!! -
Actually, I am not quite convinced that the slow down was caused by the computers reaching their capacities. This is because the second-link bridge is about 2 kilometers long. When it was full of cars on two lanes, the next car that joined the queues had about (2 lanes x 2000 meters / 4 meters per car = 1000 cars) in front of it. That car took about 2 hours to get to the other side of the checkpoint. This implies the checkpoint took about 2 hours to clear the 1000 cars in front of it, giving a clearance rate of about (1000 cars / 120 minutes = 8.33 cars per minute). If each car was packed with 5 people, then the load on the computers generated by the incoming car users at the Tuas checkpoint was only about (8.33 cars per minute x 5 people per car = 41.67 people per minute).Originally posted by sbst275:You have to understand this, the recent weekend, there was really too many cars at the CIQ.. But that does not mean no reasons to get the server upgraded
Just bear with it, wait till everyone hui to, the higher ends will stop this...
It was reported elsewhere that car users at the Woodlands checkpoint also experienced wait times of a similar scale. So, we can make a simplistic assumption that both checkpoints had similar loads during that period. Then the total load on the immigration computers for car users was only about (41.67 x 4 = 166 people per minute). This load seems a little too low compared to the expected capacity of the immigration computer system.
If we assume 600 people per minute mentioned earlier is a reasonable estimate of the combined car user clearance capacity of the two checkpoints, then the checkpoints were operating at only about 27.67 percent efficiency during that period.
Therefore, the long wait time experienced was likely to be due to computer system outages, caused by humans intentionally, or because of poor human resource planning. -
U think malaysians need their passports checked at malaysia?
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You mean Malaysians don't need to have their passports checked??!?Originally posted by SBS9828X:U think malaysians need their passports checked at malaysia?
I believe it is necessary, just that some Malaysians choose to cheat the system by just driving past the Malaysian customs and the Malaysian immigration officers do not stop them. (I've seen that happen a couple of times) -
1 thing I wish to point out onto some that may say MY side is efficient, beware... You might be one of the 'millions' that do not have their departure records recorded as MY side only collects the white card and do not usually scan the passport... No properly procedure
SG side, they go by the books... -
At MY side, they do stamp the passports instead.Originally posted by sbst275:1 thing I wish to point out onto some that may say MY side is efficient, beware... You might be one of the 'millions' that do not have their departure records recorded as MY side only collects the white card and do not usually scan the passport... No properly procedure
SG side, they go by the books... -
Of course stamp the passport only for Singaporeans and other foreigners, not Malaysians. Likewise, on Singapore side is Malaysians and other foreigners.Originally posted by Apex-LW'21:At MY side, they do stamp the passports instead. -
Then again, this is tidak apa...When one leaves Malaysia by train, the immigration clearance is done on board the KTM train at JB railway station and one's particulars are not keyed into computer. So it does not matter if scanning is doneOriginally posted by sbst275:1 thing I wish to point out onto some that may say MY side is efficient, beware... You might be one of the 'millions' that do not have their departure records recorded as MY side only collects the white card and do not usually scan the passport... No properly procedure
SG side, they go by the books... -
Nothing much?Originally posted by i_love_blacky:Then again, this is tidak apa...When one leaves Malaysia by train, the immigration clearance is done on board the KTM train at JB railway station and one's particulars are not keyed into computer. So it does not matter if scanning is done
Do you know that on their records, 11 million Singaporeans did not leave within 30 days? -
But if is for train, only Malaysians get their passports stampedOriginally posted by PhyrePhox:Of course stamp the passport only for Singaporeans and other foreigners, not Malaysians. Likewise, on Singapore side is Malaysians and other foreigners. -
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Talking about security checks, have you noted the average time taken by either Singapore or Malaysian side to check on a car ? From my personal experiences & observations on my car trips over the years i note both sides take about the SAME overall time to perform an inspection !
That includes time taken to get out of car to show boot contents, some fiddling thru the items in the boot/inside the car etc.
In both sides, not every car is subject to the same inspections anyway & usually it tends to be a 'pause & go' type of 'check' in both complexes !
Only some cars get 'inspected' typically while the rest just pause briefly & continue to drive thru.
Therefore my conclusion is that overall, the security checking (in itself) of a car etc. is NOT the 'overhelming' factor as to the overall lower perceived levels of processing speed & efficientcy @ the complexes. Rather it's a major factor but as major as other factors (no more no less) like the processing capacity & road design into & out from the complexes.
What i'm implying is that, even if there's 100 % no car inspection @ all (i.e. all cars just drive thru like those with 'TMJ' or 'Johor' plates), however due to the shortcomings of the road network to/from the complexes, the incidence of slowdown in clearance rates & efficientcy would remain still quite high due to these other contributary causes !! Therefore they must improve on the road capacities to/from the complexes besides enhancing their checking counter capacities thru deploying more counters & staff ! Of course understood also to do any upgrade of the computers used in the processing !Originally posted by Apex-LW'21:As I had mentioned this before, M'sian side of 2nd link is faster, but stuck because Singapore have security checks and some counters were closed (almost half). -
Just a real incident recollection:
My brother (with Malaysian passport) observed the many hundreds of other Malaysians seemingly just walking pass the Johor checkpoint counters by flashing their passports, card or something.
He though it's just that simple..so he did the same. However to his surprise, the counter staff asked him to return to the counter to produce his passport for some endorsement !!
So if indeed the Malaysian side is as sloppy as they 'appear' to be, then how come out of the hundreds they managed to 'fish out' a case of maybe non-compliance of procedures ?!??!
I believe those Malaysians who just walk pass the counters have been issued with some other form of identification (being frequent travellers) such that they merely flash that id & go thru !
Nowadays with SMART card contactless technology, i'm not surprised if there even exist some proximity sensors (like on the EZLink cards here) which silently records the person's presence while walking thru the gantry ! That might have explained why they managed to fish out my brother to get his Malaysian passport endorsed (even though as Malaysian he's returning to Malaysia) but as he's PR & borned in Singapore, the procedure's somewhat different ?
How they detect the difference ? If they really are sloppy & sleeping on the job, they wouldn't have been able to fish out some people & hitting it right !Originally posted by SBS9828X:U think malaysians need their passports checked at malaysia? -
Malaysia was known to be the 1st in the world to use the SMART passport.
No visible endorsements but with microchip sensor technology etc.
Nowadays you can get into your (locked) M-B S-Class car & drive off as long as you carry your owner's SMART card etc., so imagine the possibilities too @ the CIQ with modern 'invisible' technology !
On the surface those doing the checking can appear to be sleeping & sloppy on the job, but invisibly the SMART technology is doing the job such that when pick on someone, it tends to be an accurate hit ! The majority of course just pass thru without incident maybe thinking even that nobody checks ?!?Originally posted by surfbabe:You mean Malaysians don't need to have their passports checked??!?
I believe it is necessary, just that some Malaysians choose to cheat the system by just driving past the Malaysian customs and the Malaysian immigration officers do not stop them. (I've seen that happen a couple of times) -
There are two kinds of passports that Malaysians can use when traveling to Singapore. These are the restricted and international passports.Originally posted by hseochin:Just a real incident recollection:
My brother (with Malaysian passport) observed the many hundreds of other Malaysians seemingly just walking pass the Johor checkpoint counters by flashing their passports, card or something.
He though it's just that simple..so he did the same. However to his surprise, the counter staff asked him to return to the counter to produce his passport for some endorsement !!
So if indeed the Malaysian side is as sloppy as they 'appear' to be, then how come out of the hundreds they managed to 'fish out' a case of maybe non-compliance of procedures ?!??!
I believe those Malaysians who just walk pass the counters have been issued with some other form of identification (being frequent travellers) such that they merely flash that id & go thru !
Nowadays with SMART card contactless technology, i'm not surprised if there even exist some proximity sensors (like on the EZLink cards here) which silently records the person's presence while walking thru the gantry ! That might have explained why they managed to fish out my brother to get his Malaysian passport endorsed (even though as Malaysian he's returning to Malaysia) but as he's PR & borned in Singapore, the procedure's somewhat different ?
How they detect the difference ? If they really are sloppy & sleeping on the job, they wouldn't have been able to fish out some people & hitting it right !
The Malaysian immigration staff do not really care to check restricted passports, because the immigration department simply does not have the capacity to handle the volume. People usually use a blue cover for restricted passports, so this kind of passports is easily identifiable. However, it does mean foreigners who resemble locals can easily enter and leave Malaysia through the causeway and second-link checkpoints without being recorded. I think the staff also do random checks based on the age, attire and behavior of the passport holders. Legitimate frequent travelers are usually of a certain age group, wear certain attire and exhibit a certain behavior, making them identifiable to some extent. Anyway, this kind of passports will cease to be valid within the next couple of years due to the lack of relevant security features.
New international passports have embedded chips. They usually have a red cover. But as far as I know, the readers are only installed at the autogates and counters. There have been concerns that personal data can be read unknowingly from quite a bit of distance away. But so far this effect does not seem to have been taken advantage of at the two checkpoints for security and clearance efficiency enhancements. The holders of this kind of passports need to be recorded by the computer system when going through the checkpoints, though stampings are no longer done. Stampings are done for old international passports, which do not have embedded chips. -
FYI... Restricted Passports are NO longer issused on both sides
Another thing abt sloppy yet they can catch, the reason simply goes, you wanna catch, you would go and catch... But it is just that majority just can't be bothered -
A full day of smooth traffic along Causeway and 2nd Link today and since yesterday afternoon