How to differentiate bus engines?

• 914727

  19 Dec 05, 21:58

  I have heard of people mentioning about ZF and Voith for the engines of buses... but I just cant differentiate between these 2. How to differentiate the engines?
• sinicker

  19 Dec 05, 22:07

  ZF and Voith are the gearboxes rite?
  
  take SBS905R. it really sounds different from the rest of the MK4 DMs.
• ^tamago^

  20 Dec 05, 00:04

  Originally posted by 914727:

  I have heard of people mentioning about ZF and Voith for the engines of buses... but I just cant differentiate between these 2. How to differentiate the engines?

  ZF and Voith are mentioning makes of the gearbox, not the engine.
  
  Voith is the clear-cut 3-speed gearboxes. ZF are the 4-speeds.
  
  If you wan to differentiate between engines from different makes, that will be up to your hearing. Certain manufacturers come up with engine that has certain throttle sound that you can differentiate far away, just like how car fans can differentiate different sports cars.
• SBS9828X

  20 Dec 05, 13:37

  MK4 DM(later ones) and Striders sound abit like 0405s due to them using ZF gearbox rite?
  
  I believe MK4DMs got two different models... earlier ones are simillar to MK3 while laterr ones got strider like engines
• SBS9828X

  20 Dec 05, 13:51

  
  5. Engine specifications
  
  Volvo B10M Mk II
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo THD101GC (9,600cc, mid-mounted)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10M Mk III
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo THD101GD (9,600cc, mid-mounted)
  Gearbox: Voith DIWA 381.4 3-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV Soon Chow (ex-Sentosa/Turf City)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo THD102KF (9,600cc, Euro-1, mid-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: Voith DIWA 851.2 3-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV DM (early)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo THD101GD (9,600cc, mid-mounted)
  Gearbox: Voith DIWA 381.4 3-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV DM (most)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo THD102KF (9,600cc, Euro-1, mid-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV Strider
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo THD102KF (9,600cc, Euro-1, mid-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV DM3500
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo DH10A (9,600cc, Euro-2, mid-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: Voith DIWA 863.3 3-speed automatic
  
  Leyland Olympian 3-axles
  Chassis Origin: UK
  Engine: Cummins LT10 (~11,000 cc, Euro-1, inline 6-cylinder rear-mounted 252bhp, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  Length: 12050 mm, width: 2450 mm, height: 4382 mm
  Unladen Weight: 14400 kg
  Gross Vehicle Weight: 23500 kg
  Turning Circle: 22.0 m
  
  Volvo Olympian 2-axle
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo TD102KF (9,600cc, Euro-1, 245bhp, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: Voith DIWA 851.2 3-speed automatic
  
  Volvo Olympian 3-axle (9200-9400)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo TD102KF (9,600cc, Euro-1, 245bhp, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  Unladen Weight: 14400 kg
  Gross Vehicle Weight: 23500 kg
  
  Volvo Olympian 3-axle (9401-9670)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo D10A (9,600cc, Euro-1, 245hp, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  Gross Vehicle Weight: 23500 kg
  
  Volvo Super Olympian 3-axle (9800-9849, 9888, 9889)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo D10A285 (9,603cc, Euro-2, 285bhp @ 2000rpm, 1200Nm @ 1450rpm, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: Voith DIWA 863.3 3-speed automatic
  
  Volvo B10BLE-CNG (2988-2999)
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Volvo GH10B245 (9,600cc, Euro-2, 245bhp, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  
  SCANIA N113CRB
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Scania DSC1104 (11,021cc, inline 6-cyl rear-mounted transverse position, 254bhp, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: Scania GAV781/GAV680 (now replaced with Voith models)
  
  SCANIA L94UB
  Chassis origin: Sweden
  Engine: Scania DC902 (~9,000cc, inline 6-cyl rear-mounted, 280bhp, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: ZF 4-speed 4HP590
  
  Mercedes-Benz O.405 (SBST)
  Chassis origin: Germany
  Engine: MB OM447h (11,967cc, 250bhp @ 2200rpm, 890Nm @ 1300rpm, rear-mounted)
  Gearbox : W3E 110/2.2 R
  
  Dennis Dart
  Chassis origin: UK
  Engine: Cummins 6BT
  Gearbox: Allison AT545
  
  Dennis Trident
  Chassis origin: UK
  Engine: Cummins M11-305E (10,780cc, Euro-2, 305bhp @ 1900rpm, 1250Nm @ 1200rpm, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox: Voith D863.3 3-speed automatic
  
  Dennis Lance
  Chassis origin: UK
  Engine : Cummins C245 (8,300cc, Euro-2, 245bhp @ 2200rpm, 1025Nm @ 1400rpm, inline 6-cyl rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox : ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  
  Mercedes-Benz O.405 (SMRT)
  Chassis origin: Germany
  Engine : MB OM447hA (11,967cc, Euro-1, 250bhp @ 2200rpm, 900Nm @ 1100rpm, rear-mounted)
  Gearbox : ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic
  
  Mercedes-Benz O.405G (SMRT)
  Chassis origin: Germany
  Engine : MB OM447hLA (11,967cc, Euro-2, 250bhp @ 2200rpm, 1100Nm @ 1100rpm, rear-mounted, turbocharger)
  Gearbox : ZF 4HP500 4-speed automatic/ Voith DIWA 851.2 3-speed automatic

  solve them and see which sound the same...
  
  ive got one Mk4s and 0405
  
  sinicker got one Mk3 and earlier mk4DMs
• gorby107

  20 Dec 05, 13:53

  Volvo Olympian 3-axle (9200-9400)
  and
  Volvo Olympian 3-axle (9401-9670)
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV Strider, DM
  and
  Dennis Lance
  
  ?????
• SBS9828X

  20 Dec 05, 13:59

  Originally posted by gorby107:

  Volvo Olympian 3-axle (9200-9400)
  and
  Volvo Olympian 3-axle (9401-9670)
  
  Volvo B10M Mk IV Strider, DM
  and
  Dennis Lance
  
  ?????

  issit? The lance sound weird...
  
  I can say they sound like CRLs
• gorby107

  20 Dec 05, 14:04

  Originally posted by SBS9828X:

  issit? The lance sound weird...
  
  I can say they sound like CRLs

  hmmm....
  
  It sound almost the same to me
• CAIX

  20 Dec 05, 19:08

  MKIV Strider and Dennis Lance (UK & Mayaysia) sound almost the same. Go try taking them.
• sinicker

  20 Dec 05, 19:19

  Take SBS905R. shiok.
• SBS1908B

  20 Dec 05, 19:24

  Count the gears. Voith has 3 gears, ZF gearboxes have 4. The ZF is a bit more difficult to count the gears bcos of the lock-up clutch which kicks in when the bus picks-up speed.
  
  BTW, I saw 877M cameo on 147, isn't that one of 2 mkIIIs with ZF? I did not manage to hear the sounds it emits though, bcos a VO3X masked the sound. . Which model of gearbox does it use?
• SBS1908B

  20 Dec 05, 19:26

  Originally posted by SBS9828X:

  MK4 DM(later ones) and Striders sound abit like 0405s due to them using ZF gearbox rite?
  
  I believe MK4DMs got two different models... earlier ones are simillar to MK3 while laterr ones got strider like engines

  Surprsingly 882Y is an exception. It has the ZF4HP500 instead.
• SBS1908B

  20 Dec 05, 19:29

  Originally posted by sinicker:

  Take SBS905R. shiok.

  Agreed. I took it when it cameoed on 107, and it proved to be wonderful, with the bus holding the gears to high rpm, but no shaky transition found on the mkIIIs in gears. Guess it's the age of the mkIIIs that is causing the diff, since they use the same engine and gearbox.
• SBS 9631X

  20 Dec 05, 19:49

  But how come the VO3x(Batch 2 and 3)sometime sound more like they got more than 4 gears?And what speed of the gearbox do the Scania N113CRB have?
• SBS1908B

  20 Dec 05, 19:52

  Originally posted by SBS 9631X:

  But how come the VO3x(Batch 2 and 3)sometime sound more like they got more than 4 gears?And what speed of the gearbox do the Scania N113CRB have?

  All VO3X use ZF gear-box. And the CRB's original Scania gearbox has made way for Voith ones, which cause them to whistle.
• ^tamago^

  20 Dec 05, 19:57

  Originally posted by SBS 9631X:

  But how come the VO3x(Batch 2 and 3)sometime sound more like they got more than 4 gears?And what speed of the gearbox do the Scania N113CRB have?

  that is due to the torque covertor locking up at the first gear, which causes a sensation akin to a gear change but is actually not. this means, it stays in the first gear longer. this is a trait of the ZF 4HP500 gearbox with the torque convertor set to lock at first gear.
  
  there are also ZF 4HP500 gearboxes which lock-up at the second gear (e.g. Mk IV Strider, Dennis Lance, B10BLE, B10BLE-CNG), which takes advantage of a more powerful driveline to increase take-off acceleration and to enhance inter-city start-stop operations.
  
  whether the torque convertor locks up on first or second gear depends on the engine. the series of SMRT O405 and Mk II's have both types of configurations depending on the tuning of the engine.
  
  it's very hard to pinpoint over text how to differentiate. we might need a outing soon then we can teach.
  
  Scania N113CRB has a Voith 3-speed gearbox.
• ^tamago^

  20 Dec 05, 20:13

  ZF 4HP500 Lock-up at 1st Gear
  All Leyland Olympian 3-axle
  All Volvo Olympian 3-axle (except 9396A, i think)
  All Scania L113CRL's
  Most Mercedes-Benz O405G, if they are ZF
  Some Volvo B10M Mk II
  Some SMRTB Mercedes-Benz O405
  
  ZF 4HP500 Lock-up at 2nd Gear
  All Volvo B10M Mk IV (Strider)
  All Volvo B10M Mk IV (DM), if they are not Voith (if they are ZF)
  Volvo B10BLE SBS1688K
  All Volvo B10BLE-CNG
  All Dennis Lance
  Scania L94UB SBS2888T (though this uses a variant 4HP590)
  Few Mercedes-Benz O405G (limited to some buses of range TIB1148J-TIB1207Y)
  Some SMRTB Mercedes-Benz O405
  
  Voith
  All Volvo Super Olympian 3-axle
  All Volvo Olympian 2-axle NAC
  All Volvo B10M Mk III
  Some Volvo B10M Mk IV (DM)
  All Volvo B10M Mk IV (DM3500)
  All Volvo B10M Mk IV (Soon Chow)
  All Scania N113CRB
  All Dennis Trident
  Some Mercedes-Benz O405G (TIB1024C-TIB1060C, TIB1062Y, TIB1208U-TIB1247G)
  All DAF SB220LT
  
  Mercedes-Benz 3-speed gearbox
  All SBST Mercedes-Benz O405
• Apex-LW'21

  20 Dec 05, 20:16

  Oh yes, 914727, you can check out ^tamago^ Newcomers' Guide to look up information on buses.
  
  Click here!
• ^tamago^

  20 Dec 05, 20:16

  SBST's Mercedes-Benz O405 uses their own MB gearboxes. You can hear that the torque convertor locks up at the first gear, hence the seemingly 4 gears you hear are actually 3 gears only. Actually it is known as a "slip gear" in this case, though you can assume it works just like a lock-up.
• ceecookie

  20 Dec 05, 20:18

  hvaing 3 speed autos for bus is kinda ancient...
• ^tamago^

  20 Dec 05, 20:21

  Originally posted by ceecookie:

  hvaing 3 speed autos for bus is kinda ancient...

  yes, but on the contrary to this note, SBST actually prefers Voith to ZF at this moment.
  
  SBST chose to get only 3-speed Voiths, though they can actually get a 4-speed equivalent that comes with a 4th overdrive gear, because the buses are speed limited to 60kph anyway. The overdrive will kick in at a speed higher than this, so it's impractical to have a non-working 4th gear.
• stooper

  20 Dec 05, 23:10

  Originally posted by ^tamago^:

  SBST's Mercedes-Benz O405 uses their own MB gearboxes. You can hear that the torque convertor locks up at the first gear, hence the seemingly 4 gears you hear are actually 3 gears only. Actually it is known as a "slip gear" in this case, though you can assume it works just like a lock-up.

  You forgot those with Voiths...
• ^tamago^

  20 Dec 05, 23:40

  Originally posted by stooper:

  You forgot those with Voiths...

  Ah yes. Some SBST Mercedes-Benz O405 commissioned later in the batch have Voith 3-speed gearboxes. They are all in AMDEP and BRAM (SLBP has no Voith O405's).
• Windy_hates_B10TLs

  21 Dec 05, 08:45

  Originally posted by SBS9828X:

  solve them and see which sound the same...
  
  ive got one Mk4s and 0405
  
  sinicker got one Mk3 and earlier mk4DMs

  Volvo Olympians were built in Irving in Scotland. Not Sweden
• 914727

  22 Dec 05, 06:50

  any idea which regos for the voith merz o405 (SBST)?