Call this World-Class transport system?
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School kids, the elderly etc. who don't use private cars it's 'implictly' assumed that these lot are catered for by others who drive a car be it parents, friends, helpers etc.
Of course no situation would ever be 'perfect' so there'll ultimately be some above who would unfortunately be 'left out' ! The ideal goal i'll say is to minimise people in such situations but this being an imperfect world there'll always be some in this boat.
In this real world NOTHING would ever be perfect. I do NOT believe such a state can/would ever be achieved anywhere BUT people can progress closer to perfection, that's all. So i don't believe in such a thing as perfect public transport system.
However that does NOT mean complacency can set in with no bothers to make improvements ! My central point has always been in making relative comparisons among the various alternatives to public transport WITHIN a certain country & comparing it to another such relative comparisions from another country, irrespective whether that other place is overall more 'advanced' or not. This way, differences in income levels & purchasing power of money etc. would have been taken into consideration & 'cancelled out' as such, leaving more clearly the 'nett picture' for people to figure if indeed improvements can/should be made in their own countries to make up for any shortcomings when compared this way with another country's.
The bottom line would be like say the cost of taking bus here is so much & the cost of taking the alternative forms of transport here would be so much. (In the 1st case) If the costs of the private alternatives seem cheap compared to the bus within the same place, then i'll consider it as being less of a case for complains/improvements. However (in the 2nd case) if the costs of the alternative transport seem expensive relative to the bus within the same place being evaluated, then it's more of a case for complains/improvements ! Having understood these, therefore that's why i consider places like Malaysia, Australia, Germany in case 1 while Singapore i have to put under case 2 !!!!
If private car costs in Singapore are as cheap as in these other places, then only i place Singapore under case 1 i.e. then less case for complains/improvements !
As for any increases in bus fares, i've already written number of posts since quite long time ago in this & perhaps other forums saying why such a situation need NOT develop. That's i'll classify under another subject area so i'll not repeat myself here.Originally posted by elawee:true tt cars in aussie is very much cheaper than in singapore.
an avg 1.6 or even a 2 litres car from popular brands like honda or toyota will cost nothing above $30K.
even a brand new merc is abt $60k only.
but is tt the reason y public transport can be less than perfect there?
how abt the school kids? how abt the old who cannot drive?
n then again, wat is perfect?
having a bus run every 5mins so there would be no queues? or not running any buses when there is no queue but instead deploying only when there are ppl waiting for buses.
if tt is the former, then more drivers would need to be hired, resulting in higher cost, which in turn result in an increase in fare prices to keep the company profitable.
n the increased in fare prices will then spark another outrage altogether.
so pray tell me, wat, in ur opinion, is a perfect public transport system. -
Always Singapore wanna be the 1st, yet we will be the last developed country to retire NAC buses
HK's KMB is slowly upgrading PAC/ NAC svs to FAC every mth, yet here SBS is adding.. Even HK has less than 80 NAC buses on the road -
What a long horrifying queue........(and sale for "what" ? )Originally posted by 105090:at 8am today At first i thought.. whoa! some sale going on.. then i go nearer and see.. the sale seems to be ending at sv70 Queue!
on my trip back at 7pm, whoa! 3 more snaking Queues.. more great sales? i doubt so.. and yes.. its sv72 Queue! sv76 is no better! the frequency for 72 must had been near 15mins!
of course, to maximise profits, longer frequency is inevitable. most important is send a DD, make it fully pack.. no good if send 2 buses, but only half-filled.. might as well make a 2-in-1.
World Class Queues with Wrold Class fares indeed
Looks like it is a sign that the depot in-charge of svcs 70 72 and 76 has mistreated or neglected the service and its passengers, by sending lesser buses, and allowing the queue to get longer and longer and longer ..............
Well, then, I do not know what is the situation of that depot........if it got lots of SP buses then it should be taken to serve on these services.....and relieve the queue................
So...seeing the horrifying length of the queue....it means that our tpt system has yet to be world-class........ -
I mean, we pay much, yet we still had to waste time and energy waiting and queueing at bus stops, only to get a cramped bus.................so?!Originally posted by SGEMP:What a long horrifying queue........(and sale for "what" ? )
Looks like it is a sign that the depot in-charge of svcs 70 72 and 76 has mistreated or neglected the service and its passengers, by sending lesser buses, and allowing the queue to get longer and longer and longer ..............
Well, then, I do not know what is the situation of that depot........if it got lots of SP buses then it should be taken to serve on these services.....and relieve the queue................
So...seeing the horrifying length of the queue....it means that our tpt system has yet to be world-class........
In a world-class transport system, this is totally UNACCEPTABLE! -
erm.. lets not compare with US, UK, HK, OZ, JB etc.
we keep the woes within Singapore mainland.. so.. well.. as said, no traffic jam, no breakdowns etc. Theres no excuse for such long Q.. what if that day was a stormy day?
Sure, its a terminal, smaller in size, and definitely frequency-compromising!
ahh.. i am getting sick of 72 sometimes.. i had decided to take a bicycle instead to get to YCK already! (phew!) -
sometimes.. what people DONT WANT is spanking new state-of-the-art buses with Computerised mechanisms.. it all adds to the cost.
Rather, we want buses to come on time, and at a reasonable interval. So, i dont really mind non-aircon buses, but i do mind Q-ing for a bus until the Q looks like queueing up for some freebies!
rather divert resources to more drivers than new buses, computer, VLS etc etc -
No lah
SBS is already off from what it is tasked to do back in 1973
Now, it has poor reltions with passengers over many unpampered and least bothered svs, pampered svs gets too pampered...
Also since SBS counts its revenue as a generally instead of by sv, it is now more difficult to get aircon buses as they would say this sv is not high in revenue collected when the fact is only 20% of the fleet is aircon
As for this long queue, I believe the mess is created as SBS returns peak hr buses earlier these days -
u noe wad....Originally posted by sbst275:No lah
SBS is already off from what it is tasked to do back in 1973
Now, it has poor reltions with passengers over many unpampered and least bothered svs, pampered svs gets too pampered...
Also since SBS counts its revenue as a generally instead of by sv, it is now more difficult to get aircon buses as they would say this sv is not high in revenue collected when the fact is only 20% of the fleet is aircon
As for this long queue, I believe the mess is created as SBS returns peak hr buses earlier these days
SBS pple will see this forum meh?.......
write to straits time or TODAY newspaper larh (TODAY is more effective in my opinion)....if publish iin newspaper den i tink many others who take these services will also write in......
dun ask me write in coz i dun take service 72 n i dun noe wad is the exact situation dere......... -
actually personally i also think 72 has bad scheduling.. another sore point is pax waiting for 72 at hougang central int bus stop after coming out of nel... the freq at night can be very bad...
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The complains only wayang wayang...Originally posted by hiphop2009:u noe wad....
SBS pple will see this forum meh?.......
write to straits time or TODAY newspaper larh (TODAY is more effective in my opinion)....if publish iin newspaper den i tink many others who take these services will also write in......
dun ask me write in coz i dun take service 72 n i dun noe wad is the exact situation dere.........
See now, svs 151 is back to having at least 1 overloaded trip during AM peak again... -
In a subject area as public as public transport, it's inevitable that some comparisons be made with other places. Otherwise, difficult to have some overview of how well or not the local situation really is.
I'll say the underlying causes of such long queues is the MISMATCH between the passenger load on the trains versus the buses !! It's not too difficult to imagine what happens when a train full of passengers dumps off a sizable load of them @ the station, implying that in order for no queues or little queues to form @ the bus station later, there must be buses (singlely or in aggregate) of similar passenger capacity to 'swallow' up the load quickly !
Deploying even a few units of ultra-high capacity buses in such situations would narrow the mismatch between the train & bus passenger capacities, leading to lesser long queues / enables a longer time before the queue builds up again.Originally posted by 105090:erm.. lets not compare with US, UK, HK, OZ, JB etc.
we keep the woes within Singapore mainland.. so.. well.. as said, no traffic jam, no breakdowns etc. Theres no excuse for such long Q.. what if that day was a stormy day?
Sure, its a terminal, smaller in size, and definitely frequency-compromising!
ahh.. i am getting sick of 72 sometimes.. i had decided to take a bicycle instead to get to YCK already! (phew!) -
Care to elaborate on such buses which people don't want ??
I'll say it depends on what those 'computerised mechanisms' & 'state of the artness' does. Whether those devices/innovations etc. can contribute in reduced waiting & journey times, better class of travelling experience in the comfort & safety aspects, reduced vehicle breakdowns etc.
While true but only up to some point, the older & lower tech way of doing things would tend to result in lower thresholds. To go beyond to higher thresholds, fresh injection of technology/ideas even money would be needed.
But the system can be managed in such a way that the commutor need NOT be made to foot any such cost increases.
Therefore, diverting resources to more drivers would only go 'that far'.
To go even further, they have to innovate with new concepts, new buses with higher passenger:driver ratios etc.Originally posted by 105090:sometimes.. what people DONT WANT is spanking new state-of-the-art buses with Computerised mechanisms.. it all adds to the cost.
Rather, we want buses to come on time, and at a reasonable interval. So, i dont really mind non-aircon buses, but i do mind Q-ing for a bus until the Q looks like queueing up for some freebies!
rather divert resources to more drivers than new buses, computer, VLS etc etc -
Unless someone invents a new bus (bendy + dd integrated) which can hold probably up to 300 passengers. Hehe
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yeah. i do agree! one example is the doing away of EDS. while SBS doesnt really use EDS, its fares are the same as SMRT.Originally posted by hseochin:Care to elaborate on such buses which people don't want ??
I'll say it depends on what those 'computerised mechanisms' & 'state of the artness' does. Whether those devices/innovations etc. can contribute in reduced waiting & journey times, better class of travelling experience in the comfort & safety aspects, reduced vehicle breakdowns etc.
While true but only up to some point, the older & lower tech way of doing things would tend to result in lower thresholds. To go beyond to higher thresholds, fresh injection of technology/ideas even money would be needed.
But the system can be managed in such a way that the commutor need NOT be made to foot any such cost increases.
Therefore, diverting resources to more drivers would only go 'that far'.
To go even further, they have to innovate with new concepts, new buses with higher passenger:driver ratios etc.
however, what i said, well, bus has lifespan of 17 years, so operators has to buy new ones to replace. adds on to cost etc. there dont seem to be an easy solution isnt it?
however, one area which they should not had done is the GPS/ VLS/ AVMS/ EZ link technology.
the GPS thing.. 21st century technology, but we are still getting notorious frequencies! -
*cough* Neoplan *cough*Originally posted by tanjun:Unless someone invents a new bus (bendy + dd integrated) which can hold probably up to 300 passengers. Hehe
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http://jumbocruiser.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/index.jhtmlOriginally posted by tanjun:Unless someone invents a new bus (bendy + dd integrated) which can hold probably up to 300 passengers. Hehe -
Since 20 years ago the articulated double-decker existed, but in coach form i.e. only seated passengers. But i don't know of any ever used as citybus with standing passengers.
The 'problem' of double-decker design i'll say (whether rigid or articulated) is that the c.g. tends to be on the high side, obviously not so good in active safety aspects ! So while the single-deck articulated bus can be relatively more dynamically stable & almost as swift & flexible like a snake, the double-deckers tend to be more top heavy, directionally clumsy as such hence more dynamically unstable in comparison.
Unless there's some breakthroughs in automotive technology (likely achieved thru high-tech electronics in the suspension system i'll say) which reduces/eliminates the inferior stability up to now inherent with double-decker body designs, then i don't believe there's likely to see articulated double-deckers as citybuses with seating & standing passengers on both floors !
The most might be standing & seating on the lower deck with only seating no standing on the upper deck, but in that case then the overall passenger capacity on even an articulated double-decker may not reach your 300 figure.
On the more practical front, i notice the new M-B CapaCity 4-acle single-deck articulated (purpose built) city-bus can take in around 200 passengers in Europe i.e. expected with the more generous European allowances for seating spaciousness, implying that if such allowances were somewhat reduced to account for the 'smaller' physical size of Asians here, then the passenger capacity can be increased somewhat beyond 200 to 1 driver ratio ?!! making it the closest to your 300 figure compared to any other design of city-bus currently here.Originally posted by tanjun:Unless someone invents a new bus (bendy + dd integrated) which can hold probably up to 300 passengers. Hehe -
17 yrs? Then some MK2 should have been scrapped already! Wonder where is SBS's promise of retiring buses that have reached stat lifespan at the decent leastOriginally posted by 105090:yeah. i do agree! one example is the doing away of EDS. while SBS doesnt really use EDS, its fares are the same as SMRT.
however, what i said, well, bus has lifespan of 17 years, so operators has to buy new ones to replace. adds on to cost etc. there dont seem to be an easy solution isnt it?
however, one area which they should not had done is the GPS/ VLS/ AVMS/ EZ link technology.
the GPS thing.. 21st century technology, but we are still getting notorious frequencies!
GPS? No lah, you believe those ppl inside they use these? If not, buses wun be brunching and clogging the roads causing delay liao
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Just wondering why SBST does not purchase this kind of bus? Is it because it is not profitable in the long run?Originally posted by samtlk: -
Its NOT a citybus...Originally posted by tanjun:Just wondering why SBST does not purchase this kind of bus? Is it because it is not profitable in the long run? -
i see ppl talk much nia
1 point- yes the crowds are caused by mistake by sbs... whu to blame? those who take it la
2- dun talk of buses that will be bought. No company look at opinion from forums
3- 9818 has got nothing better to do -
Being a coach & not a city-bus is a reason i'll say.
But i also believe is because the operators here have still not 'arrived' into buying monocoque buses with CBU original manufacturer bodies i.e. buses which are from '1 source' & to the same standards !! Seems to many people here, they still think of the bus as bus-chassi + bus body only & not simply as bus !
On the other hand they know how to see the van or car as a monocoque vehicle !!Originally posted by alex_cai92:Its NOT a citybus... -
THat is damn obvious. No need to bring it up.Originally posted by SBS9828X:i see ppl talk much nia
1 point- yes the crowds are caused by mistake by sbs... whu to blame? those who take it la
2- dun talk of buses that will be bought. No company look at opinion from forums
3- 9818 has got nothing better to do -
1st point, just to add, cos there are ppl inside here simply = to SBS's viewpoint... That's why Singapore Bus svs never improve on the current svs in these years...Originally posted by SBS9828X:i see ppl talk much nia
1 point- yes the crowds are caused by mistake by sbs... whu to blame? those who take it la
2- dun talk of buses that will be bought. No company look at opinion from forums
3- 9818 has got nothing better to do
Sad to say we would be the very last developed country to retire NAC buses -
105090, woot! the pics are very good!
You should give the pics to TODAY or ST.Times, remember there's the photo competition for this and you can get some discount vouchers.
Also all these evidence can then substantiate the kind of services we are getting and if PTC is colluding with the SBS/SMRT etc.
good one!