New service guidelines for bus services; fines if standards
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They continue giving Sv59 frequencies of more than 20 minutes i see what happen
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makes life even more stressful for BCs, wonder if sooner or later they will be penalized for falling behind schedule,
just like train drivers in tokyo -
i find it absurd as when train commuters are advised by the PA system to wait for the next train if they are unable to board the train at the platform during peak hours
it only shows nothing but the incompetency and incapability of SMRT to solve overcrowding problem, for one of the world-class public transport operator, this should not be happening -
Improving bus trips in the city
Straits Times Review
29 July 2006
SOON enough, bus passengers can expect better service. Guidelines issued by the Public Transport Council, an independent body regulating bus services and public-transport fares, set 19 service standards that SBS Transit and SMRT Buses will need to meet - or face penalties. By six months from September, for instance, operators will have to ensure that peak-time buses are on average no more than 95 per cent full and 15 minutes apart. These are improvements that go to the heart of what passengers demand. Indeed, we are heartened by the fact that the Council's guidelines are based on customer feedback that capture actual travelling experience.
Nevertheless, there will be the inevitable gripe that the guidelines don't go far enough. This is natural. But would-be complainers must realise that the Council can't be expected to accommodate every demand. Two things bear keeping in mind when considering service improvements. The first is that bus operators are private companies, and are justifiably entitled to make reasonable profits for the service they provide. So there must be a sensible trade-off between what commuters want and what they are willing to pay. Service can always be improved by piling on excess capacity, but does this make financial sense to both commuters (who will have to shoulder the cost) and operators (who will have to manage a far larger infrastructure)? Related to this is point No. 2: Singapore is spread out into far-flung suburban neighbourhoods, rather than concentrated into a few compact centres. Much can be done with far less in crowded Hong Kong and New York. But, for example, connecting the interiors of every neighbourhood here with buses means huge outlays against what are likely to be small riderships. Geography dictates the nature of service.
And speaking of geography, a fair comparison for Singapore might be something like the vast landscape of greater Los Angeles. Now, consider how Singapore measures up. Certainly, things here can still be improved. But for this, commuters must appreciate the importance of focusing on what is possible. Our bottom line is that for the fares commuters pay, Singapore's bus - and train - services are probably as good as they can realistically get. Anything better will have to come at a price. -
Especially to buses like 242 . Which had about 101% boarding the bus. As there were cases when 3 passengers stand on the stair but still left lots of passengers in the Int.
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I think sometimes, the operator cannot be blamed... It's the "Kiasuness" of Singaporeans to be blamed. Especially on high frequency routes, like 179 and 242, there will be severe bus bunching...Originally posted by chickenlittle2:Especially to buses like 242 . Which had about 101% boarding the bus. As there were cases when 3 passengers stand on the stair but still left lots of passengers in the Int.
Generally this is the trend
At 6.00 a bus comes and starts loading passengers. Bus takes 2mins to load passengers that have queued up. Then probably another half or one minute for all the "Kiasu" people who run for the buses to board.
Then at 6.03, another bus comes. This bus only has to load "half a minute" of passengers. Then leaves relatively empty.
Then the cycle repeats itself.
An incident I saw this Friday at around 18.45, was that at the 242 queue, one bus was being loaded, while there were 2 other buses waiting behind to let passengers board!
But the "Kiasu" people were still running to board the first bus! Making the first SD full to the door before being able to depart! 
Then the SD and DD behind the first bus departed relatively empty.
It was obvious the 2nd and 3rd bus would have overtaken the 1st bus as it had less passengers to drop and the 1st bus was defintely delayed by the loading of the passengers!
So the ironic situation is that if the people would have reached their homes faster if they had waited patiently for the next bus. -
Flag down these bus bugbears
Voices, Todayonline
PTC should pinpoint inaccuracies in bus fares
Letter from danny chua
It is good for the Public Transport Council (PTC) to set the service standards that SBS Transit and SMRT Bus must meet.
When I take the SBS Transit bus No 156 from Clementi interchange to Holland Road (opposite the Cold Storage Jelita branch), the usual fare is 64 cents, but sometimes I get charged 85 cents.
There is apparently an error rate of between 5 and 10 per cent, due to their Global Positioning System (GPS) being disrupted by overhead bridges, tall buildings, other stronger telecommunication signals and trees. (In Hong Kong, its bus system error rate is as high as 70 per cent due to its hilly terrain).
It is also a hassle to call the hotline for a refund or to go to the nearest refund centre. It is not worth the effort, time and more money spent.
There should be a billing accuracy standard based on the Six Sigma methodology (which emphasises the application of statistical tools to critical business processes); or an error rate below 1 per cent.
Fine the bus operators if they do not meet it.
Let's keep things clean
Letter from graham mceune
I applaud the proactive steps taken by the PTC to improve the standard of service for Singapore's commuters. But I was surprised that no mention was made of cleanliness.
Compared to Singapore's taxis, which I rate the cleanest in the world, and the MRT and its stations — which, considering the volume of traffic, is excellent — some of the older buses appear unhygienic.
I understand the logistics: The hours buses spend on the road and the number of passengers carried, and so on. I also understand the business sense of running buses into the ground rather than buying new ones, as well as the fiscal benefits of skimping on nonessential maintenance.
But from whichever angle I look at it, I can see no reason for not at least keeping them clean.
Surely the cost of mopping the floors with an antibacterial wash, wiping over the seats and bell pushes and handrails, and cleaning the grease and grime from the windows once a week, would not make the bus companies that much poorer.
A bit of simple housework would greatly improve the travelling experience. The buses would smell fresher, dust mites would be less of an issue for allergic passengers (of which I am one), and the burgeoning cockroach problem would be banished.
There is also the unsightliness of posters stuck on the doors and windows. If they must be there, shouldn't they at least be affixed properly and with materials that don't yellow or peel off, leaving strips of Sellotape on the glass? I saw a poster recently for a competition that had ended six weeks before — evidence that SBS does not seem to keep a check on the insides of their buses, or if they do, then there is much that escapes their attention.
Pack 'em in – why not?
Letter from mahalingam laxman
I do not agree that buses should not take more than 95 per cent of maximum capacity, not when commuters are already complaining of the wait for buses. Buses should be allowed to take maximum capacity.
Some passengers hold up the bus when they ask questions of bus drivers. Considerate bus drivers at a bus stop will also sometimes wait instead of moving off, when they see an approaching commuter signalling from a distance.
Unfortunately, this may not happen in future if a driver has to keep strictly to time to avoid fines. PTC should pinpoint inaccuracies in bus fares
Letter from danny chua -
Look, dun wait until ppl get fed up and ppl here still singing anger that PTC is getting strict against SBS
Why no more than 95% loading?? Simply if the bus happened to be delayed by 1 or 2 mins, it might still be able to reach loading below 100%. Any loading abv 100% actually means that the bus wun be covered with insurance if any accidents is were to really happen. It's also doing for the sake of the operators as well
As for aircon status, since ppl say some svs ppl complain too much... OK then, svs like 34, 56, 68, 82, 83 should be totally NAC either due to demand or short dist rts... If you cannot put yourselfs into those passengers shoes or you dun like your bus sv that you take often to use so many NAC bus (In terms of %), dun come around and say 'you are complaining too much'.. For concession pass, no way so many NAC SDs should be deployed since now they so smart force ppl to buy a standard price mthly pass -
Improving bus services , safety, etc. total bullsh*t! You pay more for such f*cked up services.
The first incident:
My dad just had a fall 3 days ago and has hurt his shoulder blade. He can't even stretch his right arm fully and so on.
When he boarded the bus, the bus driver drove off without checking if all passengers or bus commuters are seated.
Then when my dad had a fall; he stopped the bus and went over to him and said 'are you ok? do you wanna see a doctor?' blah blah blah. (Hinting to him that he's willing to pay any medical fees. It wasn't a problem of money or compensation though.)
Then my dad retorted; 'If it was an elderly, who knows this lil' 'accident' might cost 'em their live.' As you know.. elderly's bones are fragile and stuff and breaking a bone is no joking matter.
And what about internal injuries? It might be a niggling internal injury rhat will never go off, and may most probably affect that person's lifestyle.
Another incident involved my aunt's friend.
It was raining, the ground is wet and slippery and when she boarded the bus, (at the steps) she slipped and fell. She knocked her head against the metal pole and the bus driver didn't even say or do anything.
He just stopped and waited for her to board the bus and then drove off.
Yet another incident involved the bus service 17.
There was a long queue at the interchange and when the bus finally arrived; we had already waited for more than 40min. (arrival time: 18min)
Everyone was upset.
Some uncle went up to the bus driver and asked him 'how come you took so long to arrive?'
The bus driver took a glance at him and kept quiet. Sort of ignoring him, i say.
What good service standards. And speaking about being a gracious society...I beg to differ.
But of course; these are some of the black sheeps among the lot. -
What tokking you?Originally posted by sbst275:Look, dun wait until ppl get fed up and ppl here still singing anger that PTC is getting strict against SBS
Why no more than 95% loading?? Simply if the bus happened to be delayed by 1 or 2 mins, it might still be able to reach loading below 100%. Any loading abv 100% actually means that the bus wun be covered with insurance if any accidents is were to really happen. It's also doing for the sake of the operators as well
As for aircon status, since ppl say some svs ppl complain too much... OK then, svs like 34, 56, 68, 82, 83 should be totally NAC either due to demand or short dist rts... If you cannot put yourselfs into those passengers shoes or you dun like your bus sv that you take often to use so many NAC bus (In terms of %), dun come around and say 'you are complaining too much'.. For concession pass, no way so many NAC SDs should be deployed since now they so smart force ppl to buy a standard price mthly pass
Can you express your thoughts properly or not?
For the record, you are COMPLAINING TOO MUCH. Can't you just admit it?
Seriously, do you want to be in a packed stuffy air-con bus? At least a NAC has windows to allow air to come in and ventilate the bus.
I don't want to waste time to play music to a cow like you (dui4 niu2 tan2 qin2) -
oh, the evening bus service was gd. What I was upset was the time from 7pm to 10.30pm for weekdays and 6.30pm to 11.30pm for the weekends(Especially Sat). The bus was really fully loaded. The bus did not empty the queue but left lots of passengers.Originally posted by chickenlittle2:Especially to buses like 242 . Which had about 101% boarding the bus. As there were cases when 3 passengers stand on the stair but still left lots of passengers in the Int. -
2798, I know you will want to talk bigger if SBS makes more profit
But forcing ppl to buy full aircon stamp and deploy NAC buses + overloading the buses, this kind of biz is cheap... Easily they can earn 2% of their profit from here
I can tell you, 1 fine day an accident happened onboard a overloaded bus, the fellows inside SBS will either do false accounts on the loading in order not to get into trouble with the law and go into hiding... Cos such things, no insurance co is going to pay... Insurance co is smarter than you boy -
did SBST make big money on the concession stamp? i dun think so. They would rather dun sell these concession stamp and get those students to pay full adult fares. They will make more money instead.. S$52/month = S$1.73/day. What Aircon surcharge u wan to talk abt, when these students are paying only S$1.73/day for UNLIMITED TRIPS of BASIC BUS SERVICES?Originally posted by sbst275:2798, I know you will want to talk bigger if SBS makes more profit
But forcing ppl to buy full aircon stamp and deploy NAC buses + overloading the buses, this kind of biz is cheap... Easily they can earn 2% of their profit from here
I can tell you, 1 fine day an accident happened onboard a overloaded bus, the fellows inside SBS will either do false accounts on the loading in order not to get into trouble with the law and go into hiding... Cos such things, no insurance co is going to pay... Insurance co is smarter than you boy
Those student have the choice of not buying the concession stamp, if they feel that SBST is alway deploying NAC buses on SV74/151. They can choose not to buy concession stamp and pay cash or use Ezylink to pay instead, and thus they will only pay NAC fares if they board a NAC bus. But being smart students, they will still buy the stamp, as it is cheaper and it gives them unlimited daily rides.
And for the overloading, even if a bus is 75% full, it might alrd been overloading. Most buses allows 28 standing passengers only as far as i know. I believe our government are smarter than the insurance companies. They will surely ask SBST to buy those 3rd party insurance which cover everything from damages to buses or injuries to passengers , no matter whether it is overloading or not.
Also to meet the PTC rules of 95% loading, i think SBST will have more reason to ask for increment in fares if this rule is strictly enforced. They will have to buy more buses and deploy more buses during peak hours. Then u will complain again, if they increase fares. -
Even if the bus is overloaded by just 1 passenger, the insurance co wun pay a single cent
The passenger's medical bill has to fork out from SBS themselves -
oh man... not many people would like to take 5 or 6 buses to get to school daily i believeOriginally posted by lemon1974:did SBST make big money on the concession stamp? i dun think so. They would rather dun sell these concession stamp and get those students to pay full adult fares. They will make more money instead.. S$52/month = S$1.73/day. What Aircon surcharge u wan to talk abt, when these students are paying only S$1.73/day for UNLIMITED TRIPS of BASIC BUS SERVICES?
Those student have the choice of not buying the concession stamp, if they feel that SBST is alway deploying NAC buses on SV74/151. They can choose not to buy concession stamp and pay cash or use Ezylink to pay instead, and thus they will only pay NAC fares if they board a NAC bus. But being smart students, they will still buy the stamp, as it is cheaper and it gives them unlimited daily rides.
and, students are students, not working.. cant afford to pay "full fare".
also, here in Singapore, we are talking of students staying in Tampines but studying in say Clementi etc.. and nowadays, which bus service is fast and direct? virtually none! hence "transfers" then transfer rebates
i am a BCP pass holder myself.. really, getting a 80% NAC hit (say i take 10 trips of 74 per week) isnt funny, although that $1.73 still is cheaper than NAC fares combined.
but then, who knows..what is the true fare of adult fare? is BCP really loss-making?
i will rather gladly pay full "adult fare" than have all these NAC and BCP nonsense
singapore transporet system is somewhat unique in having so many types of fares -
You think BCP is making losses???
That 25c fare diff, already good enough to cover that
If it isn't, why is SBS still making a $50m profit???
Everything is included in the BCP cost -
Service 56 non-airconditioned? Your arguments of demand and short distance fall far short, sbst275. What on earth have you been smoking? A large dosage of concentrated marijuana?Originally posted by sbst275:As for aircon status, since ppl say some svs ppl complain too much... OK then, svs like 34, 56, 68, 82, 83 should be totally NAC either due to demand or short dist rts.. -
Always see 2 to 3 svc 242 buses leaving the Int even during off-peak hrs.Originally posted by stooper:I think sometimes, the operator cannot be blamed... It's the "Kiasuness" of Singaporeans to be blamed. Especially on high frequency routes, like 179 and 242, there will be severe bus bunching...
Generally this is the trend
At 6.00 a bus comes and starts loading passengers. Bus takes 2mins to load passengers that have queued up. Then probably another half or one minute for all the "Kiasu" people who run for the buses to board.
Then at 6.03, another bus comes. This bus only has to load "half a minute" of passengers. Then leaves relatively empty.
Then the cycle repeats itself.
An incident I saw this Friday at around 18.45, was that at the 242 queue, one bus was being loaded, while there were 2 other buses waiting behind to let passengers board! But the "Kiasu" people were still running to board the first bus! Making the first SD full to the door before being able to depart! Then the SD and DD behind the first bus departed relatively empty.
It was obvious the 2nd and 3rd bus would have overtaken the 1st bus as it had less passengers to drop and the 1st bus was defintely delayed by the loading of the passengers!
So the ironic situation is that if the people would have reached their homes faster if they had waited patiently for the next bus. -
Cos some people don't now how to plan...Originally posted by chickenlittle2:oh, the evening bus service was gd. What I was upset was the time from 7pm to 10.30pm for weekdays and 6.30pm to 11.30pm for the weekends(Especially Sat). The bus was really fully loaded. The bus did not empty the queue but left lots of passengers.
Interesting finding by my friends:
1. the bus isn't fully loaded cos my friend sometimes can boarded the bus & sometimes can't due to the inconsiderate ppl who don't want to move it fully to the rear...
2. ppl alway jump queue instead of queue up early
3. ppl just queue w/o seeing the approximated bus departure timing & so on...
Note : My friends are currently living along 242 route, take 242 daily but they also take 243 & walk if they are unable to take 242 & they graduated with Dipolma in Quality Management Engineering -
And also, sometimes, on DDs, some people don't want to sit on the top! You can see from outside, that the upper deck is less than half full, whereas the lower deck is to the door. I notice this usually happens when a high loads of passengers board midway... i.e. 179 coming back to BNL in the evening peak.Originally posted by brotherchen1982:Cos some people don't now how to plan...
Interesting finding by my friends:
1. the bus isn't fully loaded cos my friend sometimes can boarded the bus & sometimes can't due to the inconsiderate ppl who don't want to move it fully to the rear... -
of course BCP is making losses.Originally posted by sbst275:You think BCP is making losses???
That 25c fare diff, already good enough to cover that
If it isn't, why is SBS still making a $50m profit???
Everything is included in the BCP cost
S$50M profit does not come from BCP. It come from Adult fares and bus advertisement. Use your brain and think pls...
I think in your opinion, you want SBST to charge BCP for tertiary students and NSF at the rate of primary students right?
I think SBST is most wlling/welcome to remove BCP for tertiary student/NSF. -
As they are losing money on the adult fares for those tertiary student/NSF using BCP.Originally posted by lemon1974:of course BCP is making losses.
I think SBST is most wlling/welcome to remove BCP for tertiary student/NSF.