COMPLAINT AGAINST CONFISCATION OF EZ LINK CARD!!!
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That's because SMRT BC are much less patient. In the case of the cigarette butt incident, a random SMRT BC wouldn't even explain let alone wait. He would just close the door and drive off = mad man not on bus = BC not being hit.Originally posted by SBS2671B:Thats why SBST got 18 BCs attacked (Serve them rite)
But SMRT got only 1 BC attacked
SBST BC so yaya so they ask for it!
You still haven't answer my query on how $0.63 gets deducted from ur ez-link card when its a secondary concession btw. And I'm very curious to know thank you. -
Somehow that BC press some button on his EZ-Link machine, then force him to tap his card. I definitely heard only ONE beep. And BTW, $0.65 was deducted, not $0.63. Because when he tapped his card it was $0.20, and when he alighted it was -$0.45.Originally posted by TIB1186Z:You still haven't answer my query on how $0.63 gets deducted from ur ez-link card when its a secondary concession btw. And I'm very curious to know thank you. -
Read this la.Originally posted by UnLeAsH_cHa0s:1st of all guys the all caps title is bcos i m really super pissed wif wats my situation, so no offence 2 any1. jus needed 2 made this known to other ppl 2 prevent them from suffering like me.
a few days ago i was boarded bus 65 at bendemeer rd goin towards orchard direction. when i tap my ezlink card, there is this error sound (u all should know wat i mean), n the idiot reader showed "CARD EXPIRED". so i tout mayb got some prob n i used my Adult ezlink card. i moved to the back of bus. The dvr called me to go n tap my student card again. thinkin that he may wanna help me i passed my card to him w/o hesitation. WTF he took my card, say my card expired n he insist on keeping my card, saying its some crap company policy. wa i damn DL la, but he driving so i LL stay calm. i showed him my receipt which i bought my bus cencession, its obviously JUNE 2008, n he say he hav 2 keep the card, den jus slot it into his pocket, n gimme some kuku receipt. i told him it gonna b some system error wat, how can expire? he keep shaking his head, say wat call some crap no. aft 5 days bla bla bla, those push blame stories. DAMN PISSED at this moment.
nvm i tout mayb its jus misunderstanding. so i call the no. on the receipt, n tell them my situation. mind u this is like more than week later n i hav been using adult fare every freaking day, which is like almost $5 per day to go sch. if u guys were in my shoes u would expect some form of compensation for the adult fare right, more than $20 by den. i mean i got bus concession leh! liddat i losing end no matter wat right!?!? the ans i got was "we will pay ur balance of the bus concession based on the total cost minus no of days left in the mth" wa lao eh obvious "EAT" me leh!!! den as 4 my adult fare they say is case by case basis may not compensate WTF!!
in the end finally case close. they say my card corrupted muz replace dammit. muz pay fee somemore!!! obviously i muz pay wat if not how go sch??? up till now i havent received compensation for the adult fares i have used, & not 2 mention the remainder of my bus concession @ the time of confiscate. this is really pissing me off, i hav been travelling to n fro from bus terminals 2 terminals trying 2 get my card n claims. waste of time n money, study time oso affected. in due course i will bring this matter up to CASE definitely. i really cant stand this kinda service. sry 4 the long post but this really muz b made known to every1.
SO NEXT TIME U TAKE BUS, UR CARD SOMEHOW GOT SOME IDIOTIC ERROR N THE DVR INSIST ON TAKING UR CARD 4 WATEVER REASON, DONT GIVE HIM!!! KEEP UR CARD N TRY 2 VERIFY WIF TICKETING OFFICE OR WATEVER JUS DONT GIVE HIM THE CARD. I HAVE VERIFIED THIS WIF A LOT OF OTHER BUS DVRS N THEY HAVE COMFIRMED THAT EXPIRED CARDS R NOT 2 B CONFISCATED INSTEAD RETURNED TO THE OWNER.
CONDITIONS OF USE
The School Smartcard / ITE Student ez-link card is not transferable.
It must be carried at all times as proof of eligibility when travelling. School uniforms do not prove students' eligibility for travel concession.
It must be shown without demand to the bus driver, inspector or other authorised staff of SBS Transit, SMRT, SLRT and TransitLink.
Legal proceedings may be taken against any person who misuses the card, allows any misuse of the card, or breaches any of the Terms & Conditions, for the use of the School Smartcard / ITE Student ez-link card.
SBS Transit, SMRT, SLRT and TransitLink reserve the right to retain any card deemed necessary for investigation.
The ez-link card shall be retained if it has been tampered with, misused, replaced or refunded -
The BC still has no statutory right to confiscate, and it is not a legally enforceable action under Singapore law, because the BC is not an officer of the Penal Code.Originally posted by TIB1186Z:Problem is that no amount of diplomacy, however good, would help as the passenger would definitely be in a frustrated or agitated mood when the BC mentions that he has to retain the card. The BC also has a tight schedule to follow and cannot afford to spend too much time practising diplomacy too. Claim that BC have no right to confiscate? That's what the newly pasted stickers near the BC's seat are for.
Does diplomacy always work on passengers these days? I doubt so, considering the increase in amount of violence against BCs nowadays - even in one case involving a student from a top JC.
On a side note, it wasn't too long ago when it was reported healthcare workers (nurses & doctors) got physically abused by distraught family members & patients, so much so that hospitals started putting up signs to state their right to protect their staff against abuse.
It is only a corporate statute, which is basically toothless. If brought to court, a passenger cannot be charged with a crime of refusing to hand over the card. -
Yesterday something odd...
I wanted to use my EZ link to pay for my fare....
I haven't tap my card , the BC say tap tap....
then I tap... the reader put Vaild Card.
then I pause for a while...
Then the BC say... don't want put money ar?
Then I say I want to use EZ link card pay.
Then I tap again... can see his face turn red...
BN 293 Driver...
lolx... never assume all Students want to use cash for their fare....
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You are so wrong unfortunately. If you think that only the Penal Code exists under the Singapore judiciary system, I advise you to get out of your self-contained shell and read the papers for a start. Corporate & Banking Law are some of the others that are applicable under Singapore's legal system just to name a few.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The BC still has no statutory right to confiscate, and it is not a legally enforceable action under Singapore law, because the BC is not an officer of the Penal Code.
It is only a corporate statute, which is basically toothless. If brought to court, a passenger cannot be charged with a crime of refusing to hand over the card.
You are right to say that the BC has no statutory right, but as TransitLink puts it across in the legal terms which you are so familiar with, a ride is defined as a condition of carriage between the service provider and the passenger subject to the condition of fare being paid. In other words the BC has every right as an authorised representative of the service provider to boot the passenger off the bus if he doesn't seem to be paying the correct fare, thus violating the condition of carriage hence rendering the contract null and void.
And oh, I doubt SBST or SMRTB would want to make such a charge; they have better things to do & there's just the simple solution of denying carriage outright. -
Ah ic thanks. Looks one of another of those weird ez-link quirks that shouldn't have happened (or BC pressed something that made concession inapplicable).Originally posted by SBS9806J:Somehow that BC press some button on his EZ-Link machine, then force him to tap his card. I definitely heard only ONE beep. And BTW, $0.65 was deducted, not $0.63. Because when he tapped his card it was $0.20, and when he alighted it was -$0.45. -
I encountered twice when my trip was "cancelled" on it's own with alighting. I boarded with BC seeing me tap, but when alighting it says "Please board from entry".
Just make sure that the BC see you tap when you board. Not fool proof, but at least you're not suspected of foul play. -
However, the BCs don't seem to be ejecting passengers, which should be the correct procedure, and are more likely to choose to retain students' concession card, which happens to be their sole National ID for those below the age of 12.Originally posted by TIB1186Z:You are so wrong unfortunately. If you think that only the Penal Code exists under the Singapore judiciary system, I advise you to get out of your self-contained shell and read the papers for a start. Corporate & Banking Law are some of the others that are applicable under Singapore's legal system just to name a few.
You are right to say that the BC has no statutory right, but as TransitLink puts it across in the legal terms which you are so familiar with, a ride is defined as a condition of carriage between the service provider and the passenger subject to the condition of fare being paid. In other words the BC has every right as an authorised representative of the service provider to boot the passenger off the bus if he doesn't seem to be paying the correct fare, thus violating the condition of carriage hence rendering the contract null and void.
And oh, I doubt SBST or SMRTB would want to make such a charge; they have better things to do & there's just the simple solution of denying carriage outright.
And retention of national ID is not something that anyone may simply do and quote commercial law. -
Erm, the more acceptable document for persons under 15 years of age is not the Ez-link card, its the birth certificate, even a passport has more significance than an Ez-link card.Originally posted by LazerLordz:However, the BCs don't seem to be ejecting passengers, which should be the correct procedure, and are more likely to choose to retain students' concession card, which happens to be their sole National ID for those below the age of 12.
And retention of national ID is not something that anyone may simply do and quote commercial law. -
The BC has the right to re-possess the card for checking if he suspect it to be fraudulently used. Whether he choose to eject the pax or make him pay the non concession fare is a different issue.Originally posted by LazerLordz:However, the BCs don't seem to be ejecting passengers, which should be the correct procedure, and are more likely to choose to retain students' concession card, which happens to be their sole National ID for those below the age of 12.
And retention of national ID is not something that anyone may simply do and quote commercial law.
As Scania has pointed out correctly, the only official document recognised by law in Singapore for peeps without a NRIC card is the birth certificate (in the case for minors). Passport is of course also acceptable if one has it but has to be supported by the BC in certain cases (need to check on this one).
One can easily tell that the ez-link card is not an official document simply because it is not issued and controlled by a government ministry / stat board. Instead the card is issued and the terms of conditions of usage set by ez-link pte ltd which is still recognised as a private entity.
As stated in my previous post, please read up and open your eyes to observe. -
Originally posted by SBS1984E:
if i were you, i go and continue pissing and provoke the driver. i hate this type of bus driver. piss him off until he hit me. haha. then i win liao.
Yesterday something odd...
I wanted to [b]use my EZ link to pay for my fare....
I haven't tap my card , the BC say tap tap....
then I tap... the reader put Vaild Card.
then I pause for a while...
Then the BC say... don't want put money ar?
Then I say I want to use EZ link card pay.
Then I tap again... can see his face turn red...
BN 293 Driver...
lolx... never assume all Students want to use cash for their fare.... [/b] -
Then in that case, get MOE out of the concessionary card system, because they are a party to it, and that is the factor that lends legitimacy to it.Originally posted by Scania:Erm, the more acceptable document for persons under 15 years of age is not the Ez-link card, its the birth certificate, even a passport has more significance than an Ez-link card.
So why not enforce the ejection as a rule?
Whatever the case is, a national transport system should never have a privately issued transport card because there is no differentiation and the possibility of EZ-Link trying to play punk is very high as there is no competition. -
How wrong are you again. Don't you ever read the papers? There is a difference between a national transport system & a public transport system; SMRT & SBST are both privately held companies that derives its earnings on fare revenue and does not get government grants for its operations. So as private companies of course it has the choice to engage another private company to manage its fare collection system.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Then in that case, get MOE out of the concessionary card system, because they are a party to it, and that is the factor that lends legitimacy to it.
So why not enforce the ejection as a rule?
Whatever the case is, a national transport system should never have a privately issued transport card because there is no differentiation and the possibility of EZ-Link trying to play punk is very high as there is no competition.
Get MOE out of the concessionary card system? I'm sure that the operators would be more than happy to support the move as it would mean more fare revenue; afterall they are not bound at all to provide concessions!
There is also the logistics & operations associated, ie the production of new cards, maintenance of systems, co-ordination & disbursement of the fare revenue associated with ez-link. In these days even the IT department of government ministries is outsourced as its much more efficient. Thus its not as easy as one thinks to just set up a government board to manage travel cards.
I don't even see that there is a need for competition - one must be mad to have one as the main advantage of a travel card is that of convenience, which means one card to pay for different modes of travel across different companies. Another company = another fare collection system = another set of readers = another card to carry around = increased inconvenience. -
You're missing my point.
I'm saying that MOE should not lend any form of legitimacy to EZ-Link because of the issue that EZ-Link is a private entity and seems to be allowed to retain the cards, even those that are acting as student ID cards.
On the issue of birth certificates and passports, be realistic. You think you would trust kids to carry them around at such a young age?
Let the students have the concession card, but MOE should give them a stand-alone student ID so that confiscation (which IMHO is already a bad move and smacks of laziness, after all, why not just create a software that can record the particulars of that specific card on the system for further investigation, and eject through discretion) will not affect the kids in their daily life.
Penalising them for fare issues should not extend to the retention of their student ID/daily-usage national ID.
Lastly, yes I do not subscribe/read the Straits Times on a regular basis because it frankly lacks substance and does not provide critical or fair commentary on most national issues. There's always RSS.
I don't really care for buses or the transport companies. Let me be frank here, my opinions will be more weighed towards the consumers because I am one myself as well.
If you have an issue with that, too bad. In fact, reading too much of the Straits Times tends to influence people with a biased view of things. -
This is a rule & authority given to the BC by either PTC or LTA or Transitlink.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The BC still has no statutory right to confiscate, and it is not a legally enforceable action under Singapore law, because the BC is not an officer of the Penal Code.
It is only a corporate statute, which is basically toothless. If brought to court, a passenger cannot be charged with a crime of refusing to hand over the card. -
Originally posted by sBs_boy:
Then how do you explain that when i'm wearing my school uniform, holding a freaking thick physics textbook boarding the bus, that day i forgot brink ez link. and the stupid (fill in words here) ask me to put 90 cents.
Blame yourself that your card is corrupted in the first place. Theres no one to blame.. For your OWN infomatin if you do not know, most cases, corrupted cards are cause by the user itself.. Not the system. And, have you ever know why the reason why the BC wants to keep your card ? Have you ever thought of it before you come in here and make noise ? The reason that the BC does it is to prevent people from farecheat. [b]This is all thankz to alot of the O Lvl students.. They alwayz show their bus card and pay student fare when they are not allowed to do so. It is the company policy to keep the cards that are expired. Ask yourself.. Did the Ezlink reader show Card Expired or Card Error ? If they have shown "Card Error" then the BC got no right to take your card. But at that point of time.. the reader was shown "Card Expired". This way, i dont blame the BC for trying to confiscate your card when it is the company policy to do so.[/b] -
I'm not siding you but i have to agree on you on certain issues,As a SBST BC i'm trained to look out for possible fare evaders althoughn risk of having peoples gave a cold stare to you.If possible confiscate cards if blacklist/Foul etc..But in SMRTB i've learn how to be more flexible depending on the situation,There's one encounterd when i was driving NR1 last week when two fellows using blacklisted cards but i just give them a smile instead of confiscate which i believe will create more problems.In the end they just apologised and say they've only $4 for 2 tickets.I just told them to drop the fare and ask them to move in w/o issuing tixs and had no problems even though they'r the last persons to alight.Being flexibility does save your life/career and even gain respect from peoples.You think Co will care much if you are being stab by a knife from a psycho??IMO if the pax really don't want to give the card and insists on paying then why can't the BC let it rest?Just for the sake of rewards?Originally posted by LazerLordz:You're missing my point.
I'm saying that MOE should not lend any form of legitimacy to EZ-Link because of the issue that EZ-Link is a private entity and seems to be allowed to retain the cards, even those that are acting as student ID cards.
On the issue of birth certificates and passports, be realistic. You think you would trust kids to carry them around at such a young age?
Let the students have the concession card, but MOE should give them a stand-alone student ID so that confiscation (which IMHO is already a bad move and smacks of laziness, after all, why not just create a software that can record the particulars of that specific card on the system for further investigation, and eject through discretion) will not affect the kids in their daily life.
Penalising them for fare issues should not extend to the retention of their student ID/daily-usage national ID.
Lastly, yes I do not subscribe/read the Straits Times on a regular basis because it frankly lacks substance and does not provide critical or fair commentary on most national issues. There's always RSS.
I don't really care for buses or the transport companies. Let me be frank here, my opinions will be more weighed towards the consumers because I am one myself as well.
If you have an issue with that, too bad. In fact, reading too much of the Straits Times tends to influence people with a biased view of things. -
It has been done before in the past before the ez-link card era where students are issued with a seperate student pass and use a seperate fare card to pay for transport. Concession pass holders simply bought stamps and paste on the student pass. Its actually the same in the past; BCs & inspectors have the right to demand to see the student pass when they suspect misuse and it can be confiscated too - I have mine confiscated before cos my face didn;t really match the photo btw and it caused some inconvenience getting it back. It was also permitted as the card was issued by TransitLink, not MOE alone. The student pass like the current ez-link could also be used to borrow library books etc.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You're missing my point.
I'm saying that MOE should not lend any form of legitimacy to EZ-Link because of the issue that EZ-Link is a private entity and seems to be allowed to retain the cards, even those that are acting as student ID cards.
On the issue of birth certificates and passports, be realistic. You think you would trust kids to carry them around at such a young age?
Let the students have the concession card, but MOE should give them a stand-alone student ID so that confiscation (which IMHO is already a bad move and smacks of laziness, after all, why not just create a software that can record the particulars of that specific card on the system for further investigation, and eject through discretion) will not affect the kids in their daily life.
Penalising them for fare issues should not extend to the retention of their student ID/daily-usage national ID.
Lastly, yes I do not subscribe/read the Straits Times on a regular basis because it frankly lacks substance and does not provide critical or fair commentary on most national issues. There's always RSS.
I don't really care for buses or the transport companies. Let me be frank here, my opinions will be more weighed towards the consumers because I am one myself as well.
If you have an issue with that, too bad. In fact, reading too much of the Straits Times tends to influence people with a biased view of things.
However back then, in my opinion students didn;t make a lot of noise cos the concession still remains, they could simply continue using the card as long as another suspicious BC/TI demands for their student pass, for which they could just claim ignorance and pay adult fare for that one trip alone.
The student pass/national ID is USELESS when it comes to verification during important events such as national exams. I recall vividly that my teacher stressed over and over again that ez-link card is not accepted during the GCE exams - its NRIC or one has to find the chief examiner and beg her to sign a slip to act as a temp ID. It is also definitely not accepted to gain entry into important installations such as MINDEF (it used to, and was promptly stopped when it was discovered that it may pose a security lapse).
There is the official NLB library card to borrow books in lieu of the ez-link card (or student pass back then) and its issued free of charge. I'm sure that there is an alternate way to access school systems in lieu of the barcode as its a pretty unreliable method of authentication, its just that the students might find it a hassle to approach the relevant teacher in charge and so claim that ez-link card is the 'only' way.
Nobody said about bringing that huge laminated piece of paper called a BC around everywhere and everytime - its only on specific occassions where one is informed beforehand that it is required.
Thus it is in my personal opinion that confiscation of the card doesn't really affects the life of students that much, its just that most are disgruntled at having to pay adult fares until the card is returned to them.
The identification function as I explained earlier is limited and there are alternatives available. It would also take like at most 2weeks for it to be returned and not months. It is also hard for MOE as a government ministry to issue such peripherals which is best handled by a seperate company in partnership. (I can vouch that there is a heck lot of costs etc alone in setting up a new card production centre as it isn;t as easy as just printing, pasting and issuing).
In addition, I didn't even mention anything about the Straits Times, so don't assume and put words into my mouth. Papers could mean everything from The Sun to Wall Street Journal. Factual reporting is in my opinion better than ungrounded and unsupported online articles, and commentaries aren't what newspapers are for - they are merely a side.
I don't work for the public transport sector either; I just don't see the logic behind your reasoning and your horribly flawed interpretation of terms. The *ouch* of having to paying adult fare asides, I don't really see how the confiscation of a "national" ID have so much impact on student's lives. -
So you work for both SBST & SMRT?Originally posted by carbikebus:I'm not siding you but i have to agree on you on certain issues,As a SBST BC i'm trained to look out for possible fare evaders althoughn risk of having peoples gave a cold stare to you.If possible confiscate cards if blacklist/Foul etc..But in SMRTB i've learn how to be more flexible depending on the situation,There's one encounterd when i was driving NR1 last week when two fellows using blacklisted cards but i just give them a smile instead of confiscate which i believe will create more problems.In the end they just apologised and say they've only $4 for 2 tickets.I just told them to drop the fare and ask them to move in w/o issuing tixs and had no problems even though they'r the last persons to alight.Being flexibility does save your life/career and even gain respect from peoples.You think Co will care much if you are being stab by a knife from a psycho??IMO if the pax really don't want to give the card and insists on paying then why can't the BC let it rest?Just for the sake of rewards? -
He worked for SBST and he is working for SMRT. Understand?Originally posted by SBS9806J:So you work for both SBST & SMRT? -
Hehe... I thought of that... but that BC so kelian lolx... maybe next time if this occur, I just tap my card and walk away....Originally posted by freedom4ever:if i were you, i go and continue pissing and provoke the driver. i hate this type of bus driver. piss him off until he hit me. haha. then i win liao.
Free Ride
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Ez-link card can use in national exams... No problem.Originally posted by TIB1186Z:The student pass/national ID is USELESS when it comes to verification during important events such as national exams. I recall vividly that my teacher stressed over and over again that ez-link card is not accepted during the GCE exams - its NRIC or one has to find the chief examiner and beg her to sign a slip to act as a temp ID. -
Ah ic thanks. Perhaps convenience is the key nowOriginally posted by stooper:Ez-link card can use in national exams... No problem.
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Found a retained pass ticket today in school
another BRBP BC confiscate pass
Here's the details for the tix:
Your pass is retained
for investigation.
CONC.1
133809 88 -2 28
3826 06:17 06JUL2007