Wondering...
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Why is it that Germany's bus system can follow a given timetable with at most 5 minutes difference?
Why is it that Singapore's buses can come 3 buses in a row, and not well spread out?
I'm talking here about buses that do come in 20 minutes interval. I have personally seen at HarbourFront interchange: 3 bus 188 coming in one after another, and 10 mins later, 3 bus 963 coming into the interchange one after another.
We all understand that it may be the fact that drivers drive at different speeds. This is something that can be worked upon. The drivers could drive at speeds which would allow them to reach a certain bus stop/check point at a certain time. This way, the bus timings would be kept rather constant.
With our "high-tech" GPS systems installed in the bus, I would suppose it wouldn't be much of a hassle too if we install a small device to inform the driver whether he should drive faster or slower to the next bus stop.
What do you all think? -
selfish commuters who dilly dally, then the driver waits for them. so delay
so many traffic lights programmed to turn red when the previous ones turns green. delay
bus stops too closely spaced out? too many buses calling at same time. not all buses can be boarded at same time.
Singapore roads are overcrowded. its a battle ground. all motorists got to fight to make it alive
good luck! -
There is already such a device! -> For SBS Transit Buses not sure about SMRT Bus.Originally posted by eagle:With our "high-tech" GPS systems installed in the bus, I would suppose it wouldn't be much of a hassle too if we install a small device to inform the driver whether he should drive faster or slower to the next bus stop.
It depends what time you see the buses bunching together, sometimes its because of PEAK hour, hence theres more buses. -
that's the reason that SBS gives. But 3 buses too calling at the same time when they are supposed to set off at least 20 mins apart from the interchange? That's a bit MUCH too closely spaced I guess.Originally posted by 105090:selfish commuters who dilly dally, then the driver waits for them. so delay
so many traffic lights programmed to turn red when the previous ones turns green. delay
bus stops too closely spaced out? too many buses calling at same time. not all buses can be boarded at same time.
Singapore roads are overcrowded. its a battle ground. all motorists got to fight to make it alive
good luck!
The scenario happens too for feeder buses when the roads are definitely not crowded. I have waited for 1 hour before seeing 2 bus 156 coming to macritchie. That was at 11pm. Are the roads still crowded at that time?
Commuters dilly dally? This does not only happen in Singapore.
I would say that it's the different driving speeds of the drivers, some too fast, some too slow, which causes this problem. Why can't drivers who see the same bus behind them drive a bit faster, while drivers who see the same bus in front of them go a bit slower? Traffic lights cannot be used as an excuse. It's the service quality of SBS. If they cannot improve this factor, what gives them the reason to rise the bus fares continuously? -
I have seen it during late night periods. I will say that some drivers just want to get back to the interchange asap so that they can rest.Originally posted by Y_Shun:There is already such a device! -> For SBS Transit Buses not sure about SMRT Bus.
It depends what time you see the buses bunching together, sometimes its because of PEAK hour, hence theres more buses. -
1 hour 2 156 come? too slow already.... personally, the bus that we want to take comes so slow already. not so bad on 162, at a rate of near 16 mins per bus. sometimes i see some come as early as just behind the previous bus to 8 mins. there was once where one bus left, the next bus came near to half an hour later, and somemore is a cameoing MKIV DM. SBST should just purchase more buses if they do have the money.Originally posted by eagle:that's the reason that SBS gives. But 3 buses too calling at the same time when they are supposed to set off at least 20 mins apart from the interchange? That's a bit MUCH too closely spaced I guess.
The scenario happens too for feeder buses when the roads are definitely not crowded. I have waited for 1 hour before seeing 2 bus 156 coming to macritchie. That was at 11pm. Are the roads still crowded at that time?
Commuters dilly dally? This does not only happen in Singapore.
I would say that it's the different driving speeds of the drivers, some too fast, some too slow, which causes this problem. Why can't drivers who see the same bus behind them drive a bit faster, while drivers who see the same bus in front of them go a bit slower? Traffic lights cannot be used as an excuse. It's the service quality of SBS. If they cannot improve this factor, what gives them the reason to rise the bus fares continuously? -
It's 1 hour wait for 2 156 to come together.Originally posted by BusSpeeder:1 hour 2 156 come? too slow already.... personally, the bus that we want to take comes so slow already. not so bad on 162, at a rate of near 16 mins per bus. sometimes i see some come as early as just behind the previous bus to 8 mins. there was once where one bus left, the next bus came near to half an hour later, and somemore is a cameoing MKIV DM. SBST should just purchase more buses if they do have the money.
what I meant was not for a solution to purchase more buses, but a better change in the drivers.
See our bus 74. No one ever complains when 3 buses are bunched up together because the bus comes ever so frequently. I'm talking about buses which has comes at a less frequent rate. Having more buses do increase costs significantly, but how about getting the drivers to drive with more attention to time? Not much I guess -
the purchasing more buses was my comment. and it does not really matter much about the bus drivers sometimes. and one more, 74 can have 3 buses bunched up sometimes during peak hours or non-peak hours, but during peak hours, its also possible to wait up to near 15 minutes for 1 74, and the bus gets so full, even after 2 minutes, it just won't move because the people taking 74 all want to take. after it leaves, guess what, a common case for this, 1 or 2 74 comes. sometimes, it just doesn't depend on the drivers, i can see that most buses are moving very fast during peak hours.Originally posted by eagle:It's 1 hour wait for 2 156 to come together.
what I meant was not for a solution to purchase more buses, but a better change in the drivers.
See our bus 74. No one ever complains when 3 buses are bunched up together because the bus comes ever so frequently. I'm talking about buses which has comes at a less frequent rate. Having more buses do increase costs significantly, getting the drivers to drive with more attention to time? Not much... -
I would like to ask, how much different is Germany's bus system from Singapore's?Originally posted by eagle:Why is it that Germany's bus system can follow a given timetable with at most 5 minutes difference?
Average frequency of buses?
Passengers load of buses?
Traffic jams?
How does buses travel mostly? on Autobahns? or mostly city streets?
Its like comparing an apple to a durian... -
let's talk about peak hours here in germanyOriginally posted by XiaoTaro:I would like to ask, how much different is Germany's bus system from Singapore's?
Average frequency of buses?
Passengers load of buses?
Traffic jams?
How does buses travel mostly? on Autobahns? or mostly city streets?
Its like comparing an apple to a durian...
average frequency: 20 mins
passenger load: full bus cuz going sch and to work. Passengers take longer to pay because there's no ez link card system; they pay by coins.
traffic jams: Not much, except on certain stretches. There's bus lanes too
Bus travel: Cities, with traffic lights, etc... Bus travels very long distances too, between cities... a route much longer than quite a number of services in singapore
I have compared the peak hour situation here to the non-peak hour situation in Singapore. Buses in germany speed up when they are late, and slow down to the point of even stopping at the bus stops when they are early.
I have ever seen bus 325 in singapore coming within 5 minutes of each other even though their route is much shorter than here, their frequency is quite long, and the traffic is virtually clear. There are just too many bus services in singapore which are bad.
It is understandable in some cases why buses in sg can get screwed timings. But for a lot of other cases, especially during the non-peak hours, I do not believe the reasons posed.
Our bus companies can invest so much in EZlink system, in on board TV, but not on better service frequencies and timings? -
like what SBST have said in their bus advertisement, there are UNSEEN reasons why two buses of same services can arrive together..Originally posted by eagle:It's 1 hour wait for 2 156 to come together.
what I meant was not for a solution to purchase more buses, but a better change in the drivers.
See our bus 74. No one ever complains when 3 buses are bunched up together because the bus comes ever so frequently. I'm talking about buses which has comes at a less frequent rate. Having more buses do increase costs significantly, but how about getting the drivers to drive with more attention to time? Not much I guess
For the SV 156 cases, even it happen at night (off peak), there might be some reasons such as accident to one of the bus, traffic jam due to accident, or bus breakdown etc..
And how to ask the front driver to speed up when he is late? he still have to stop for ppl to alight and board since he is in front. else, ppl go complain why bus never stop?
and not so easy to increase frequency... add more bus,wait more jam also.. -
these things that you mentioned do happen in singapore too. roam more.Originally posted by eagle:let's talk about peak hours here in germany
average frequency: 20 mins
passenger load: full bus cuz going sch and to work. Passengers take longer to pay because there's no ez link card system; they pay by coins.
traffic jams: Not much, except on certain stretches. There's bus lanes too
Bus travel: Cities, with traffic lights, etc... Bus travels very long distances too, between cities... a route much longer than quite a number of services in singapore
I have compared the peak hour situation here to the non-peak hour situation in Singapore. Buses in germany speed up when they are late, and slow down to the point of even stopping at the bus stops when they are early.
dont talk about germany, even the best like london and HK have the same encounter.
In singapore, if there are no bunching up, 190 etc will suffer.
190s are spaced at 2-5 mins in the morning but still face overcrowding.
they even have short trips (190a) and downroutes startin from BP Rd.
its more about demand and supply.
did you try all the services in germany? -
we already have those installed in SBST buses.Originally posted by eagle:With our "high-tech" GPS systems installed in the bus, I would suppose it wouldn't be much of a hassle too if we install a small device to inform the driver whether he should drive faster or slower to the next bus stop.
What do you all think?
high tech as it is, sometimes traffic screws everything up.
the machine alerts the driver to drive faster but if it was in a jam?
the machine just beeps and beeps to no avail. -
firstly, I'm talking about services whose frequency are near 20 minutes.Originally posted by muziq bus:these things that you mentioned do happen in singapore too. roam more.
dont talk about germany, even the best like london and HK have the same encounter.
In singapore, if there are no bunching up, 190 etc will suffer.
190s are spaced at 2-5 mins in the morning but still face overcrowding.
they even have short trips (190a) and downroutes startin from BP Rd.
its more about demand and supply.
did you try all the services in germany?
secondly, all trains and buses services are like that in germany. It is their pride. -
Which of the following you mention is a variable factor, and which one is a fixed factor? Then you will understand why.Originally posted by eagle:Our bus companies can invest so much in EZlink system, in on board TV, but not on better service frequencies and timings? -
UNSEEN reasons are just an excuseOriginally posted by lemon1974:like what SBST have said in their bus advertisement, there are UNSEEN reasons why two buses of same services can arrive together..
For the SV 156 cases, even it happen at night (off peak), there might be some reasons such as accident to one of the bus, traffic jam due to accident, or bus breakdown etc..
And how to ask the front driver to speed up when he is late? he still have to stop for ppl to alight and board since he is in front. else, ppl go complain why bus never stop?
For bunching up for buses with low frequency, it happens often. But accidents rate are that much lower. Any reason?
Most of these happen on services that have longer bus routes. The problem here is that the difference in driving speeds will magnify when the route is longer.
Speed manipulation should have been done all the while during the drive to ensure that such events do not happen as frequent. -
The problem is quality vs quantity. So you would think it is more appropriate for a monopoly to continuously raise fares while maintaining the same quality of service frequency?Originally posted by service_238:Which of the following you mention is a variable factor, and which one is a fixed factor? Then you will understand why.
Do you think that fare hikes in exchange for better on-board TV justifiable? This is not considering the fact that those on-board TV has low streaming capabilities. -
The TV on the bus isnt owned and maintained by SBST but by MediaCorp Studios. Everyone seems to be assuming that the TV is run owned and maintained by SBST.Originally posted by eagle:The problem is quality vs quantity. So you would think it is more appropriate for a monopoly to continuously raise fares while maintaining the same quality of service frequency?
Do you think that fare hikes in exchange for better on-board TV justifiable? This is not considering the fact that those on-board TV has low streaming capabilities.
Fuel prices keep increasing. From the financial statements fuel prices increased by 20% over the financial year and the bus fare increased like 1.7%? This is amidst all the other stuff they provide which are stated in the next few paragraphs.
They are already providing more direct bus services in recent years. Yes I would agree its an attempt to gain more revenue. But nevertheless its the commuters that still benefits from the introduction. In 2006, they introduced S116, S402, FFw 74e, FFw 151e, 1N thru 8N, withdrawn the existing NiteOwl services, S45, S185, rolled out the WAB B9TLs, and many other route amendments.
This year they launched this new iris next-bus system. They provided the GPS infrastructure and all you need to do is to pay a few cents to use the iris system. Ripping off your phone bill? I dont think so... Do you know that iris helps you to plan your journey time better? Use it often and you will find the usefulness of it.
I understand your point here is services with a longer headway and why nothing is done to it. First and foremost the traffic in Singapore is very dynamic every single time, every single day, anytime, anywhere. The timesheets merely serves as a guide for the driver to adhere to. What if there's traffic accidents, breakdown by no fault of the bus, or worse still the bus itself is involved in the accident/breakdown? Do you think its possible to maintain the 15-20min frequency as stated? Yes you may reply just send a bus from the depot and do a trip from somewhere along the middle of the route and all that. I personally would agree with that but that means employing more standby drivers at the depot, having more spare operational (not those in the workshop) buses etc. This increases unnecessary costs. For that matter bus breakdown rate in 2006 is 1.49% down from 2.08% the previous year.
There is still improvement for the bus services here in Singapore. Considering the fare hikes are now under a new formula whereby decrease in fares may be attained. However, at the increasing fuel price each year, its hard for them to maintain the fares coupled with inflation rate etc. -
I agree. Think ourselves in the shoes of a BC. They drive numerous hours every day. They drive on fixed routes unlike taxi drivers. They see almost the same things daily over and over again as they may drive the route a few times per day. It can be rather mundane. It is already hard to attract people to take on bus driving as they are facing lots of restrictions to satisfy the consumer's demand. There is a newspaper article on The Straits Times stating some jobs that very few Singaporeans are willing to take up. Bus Captain is one of the jobs listed in the article.Originally posted by service_238:The TV on the bus isnt owned and maintained by SBST but by MediaCorp Studios. Everyone seems to be assuming that the TV is run owned and maintained by SBST.
Fuel prices keep increasing. From the financial statements fuel prices increased by 20% over the financial year and the bus fare increased like 1.7%? This is amidst all the other stuff they provide which are stated in the next few paragraphs.
They are already providing more direct bus services in recent years. Yes I would agree its an attempt to gain more revenue. But nevertheless its the commuters that still benefits from the introduction. In 2006, they introduced S116, S402, FFw 74e, FFw 151e, 1N thru 8N, withdrawn the existing NiteOwl services, S45, S185, rolled out the WAB B9TLs, and many other route amendments.
This year they launched this new iris next-bus system. They provided the GPS infrastructure and all you need to do is to pay a few cents to use the iris system. Ripping off your phone bill? I dont think so... Do you know that iris helps you to plan your journey time better? Use it often and you will find the usefulness of it.
I understand your point here is services with a longer headway and why nothing is done to it. First and foremost the traffic in Singapore is very dynamic every single time, every single day, anytime, anywhere. The timesheets merely serves as a guide for the driver to adhere to. What if there's traffic accidents, breakdown by no fault of the bus, or worse still the bus itself is involved in the accident/breakdown? Do you think its possible to maintain the 15-20min frequency as stated? Yes you may reply just send a bus from the depot and do a trip from somewhere along the middle of the route and all that. I personally would agree with that but that means employing more standby drivers at the depot, having more spare operational (not those in the workshop) buses etc. This increases unnecessary costs. For that matter bus breakdown rate in 2006 is 1.49% down from 2.08% the previous year.
There is still improvement for the bus services here in Singapore. Considering the fare hikes are now under a new formula whereby decrease in fares may be attained. However, at the increasing fuel price each year, its hard for them to maintain the fares coupled with inflation rate etc.
No doubt I am a consumer, the fact that SBST has introduced IRIS system has enhanced things greatly as we know where is our next bus going to arrive.
Besides, different BCs are different in terms of their way of driving. Some of them drive recklessly while some drive cautiously. Many SBST drivers slow down their speed when the bus approaches the traffic junction. However, some drivers drive very fast and change lanes frequently to rush back to the interchange.
Actually, normally for most journeys in singapore, after every bus stop, the bus will approach a traffic junction. I rmb LTA introduces a rule that the traffic lights will show green all the way along a road with many traffic junctions for the convenience of motorists. Imagine this, for most SBST drivers, after the traffic lights turn green, the bus will accelerate and stop at a bus stop. Then, it will accelerate again. However, by the time when it approaches the next traffic junction, the traffic lights will be turning red. This is due to the fact that the duration of the traffic lights staying at green is similar to the time required for a bus to travel from a traffic light to another traffic light which includes a stop at the bus stop. And thanks to the rule mentioned above, buses are approaching more red lights than green lights instead of 50:50. -
Singapore buses have speed limiter. There, average speeds for buses are about 70 km/h up to a max of 120km/h on Autobahns.Originally posted by eagle:I have compared the peak hour situation here to the non-peak hour situation in Singapore. Buses in germany speed up when they are late, and slow down to the point of even stopping at the bus stops when they are early.
Side note: Yesterday, SBS886L (BN 39) sped up to 90 km/h. Even more was that it was a lady driver. -
Agreed,Futhermore most Singaporean drivers are too kiasu compared with Germany.Originally posted by service_238:The TV on the bus isnt owned and maintained by SBST but by MediaCorp Studios. Everyone seems to be assuming that the TV is run owned and maintained by SBST.
Fuel prices keep increasing. From the financial statements fuel prices increased by 20% over the financial year and the bus fare increased like 1.7%? This is amidst all the other stuff they provide which are stated in the next few paragraphs.
They are already providing more direct bus services in recent years. Yes I would agree its an attempt to gain more revenue. But nevertheless its the commuters that still benefits from the introduction. In 2006, they introduced S116, S402, FFw 74e, FFw 151e, 1N thru 8N, withdrawn the existing NiteOwl services, S45, S185, rolled out the WAB B9TLs, and many other route amendments.
This year they launched this new iris next-bus system. They provided the GPS infrastructure and all you need to do is to pay a few cents to use the iris system. Ripping off your phone bill? I dont think so... Do you know that iris helps you to plan your journey time better? Use it often and you will find the usefulness of it.
I understand your point here is services with a longer headway and why nothing is done to it. First and foremost the traffic in Singapore is very dynamic every single time, every single day, anytime, anywhere. The timesheets merely serves as a guide for the driver to adhere to. What if there's traffic accidents, breakdown by no fault of the bus, or worse still the bus itself is involved in the accident/breakdown? Do you think its possible to maintain the 15-20min frequency as stated? Yes you may reply just send a bus from the depot and do a trip from somewhere along the middle of the route and all that. I personally would agree with that but that means employing more standby drivers at the depot, having more spare operational (not those in the workshop) buses etc. This increases unnecessary costs. For that matter bus breakdown rate in 2006 is 1.49% down from 2.08% the previous year.
There is still improvement for the bus services here in Singapore. Considering the fare hikes are now under a new formula whereby decrease in fares may be attained. However, at the increasing fuel price each year, its hard for them to maintain the fares coupled with inflation rate etc. -
As for technologies, I notice that a "beep" sound will be heard whenever a bus arrives at a certain landmark eg. Singapore Post Building on Service 28. When it beeps at the bus stop, the bus driver would drive normally. If it beeps way before the bus stop, the driver will accelerate like siao. If it beeps way after the bus stop, the driver might take 10 minutes just to earn some red lights and the journey to Eunos MRT would take about 10 minutes. (I kena before.)
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Maybe thats because Germany got the Autobahn ! There u can speed .Originally posted by carbikebus:Agreed,Futhermore most Singaporean drivers are too kiasu compared with Germany.
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It's the mantality of the road users there,Buses speeding they don't complain,They just give room to the buses,Ditto for the buses.Here if you exceed 70 they will die die try to overtake and slow down in front of you,Worst of all complainOriginally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:Maybe thats because Germany got the Autobahn ! There u can speed . -
Hmm cars and buses . What about trucks ? Same case ?Originally posted by carbikebus:It's the mantality of the road users there,Buses speeding they don't complain,They just give room to the buses,Ditto for the buses.Here if you exceed 70 they will die die try to overtake and slow down in front of you,Worst of all complain