147 bunching problem
-
I guess many of our fellow bus fans or commuters have experienced this common problem while taking the buses in other bus services not only 147.
I was drinking my drink while waiting for my 147 at Hougang Central to take it to my home in Serangoon North. I took 20 mins or more to finish my drink while I saw 4 74 buses, 2 153 buses, 2 89 buses, 3 27 buses picking up passengers from their respective berths. 147 haven't come at all. So, I walked around with my drink in the interchange and realised that there were no 147 buses resting at the interchange at all. After After drinking for around 16 mins, a bus 147 with bus rego 7313 came back, followed by 9216 5 mins after that.
7313 came around 5 mins after it was parked in the int. 9216 never parked in the int at all.
And the most interesting thing is that both buses came its berth at the same time.
7313, followed by 9216. The BC was grumbling to another BC that they hadn't rested enough and a guy at the office asked them to drive towards Clementi as they were behind schedule.
I am just wondering whether is that what SBST deals with late arrivals of buses into the interchanges by sending off two buses 7313 and 9216 together on the roads towards Clementi when they were behind schedule.
It is considered very tough driving service 147.
1. Route has 35 stages from Hougang to Clementi.
2. Encounters frequent traffic jams along Jalan Besar to Bras Basah Rd
3. I have researched 3 yrs ago for 147, it takes around 2 hrs for a bus to travel from Hougang to Clementi. I am not sure how long it takes for now but what I know is that it is definitely longer than 2 hrs due to high number of vehicles on the road now.
Coming to the topic of bus bunching, it will tend to occur for the following reasons.
1. If a bus is behind schedule by x mins, it will have to pick up y more passengers due to the x mins lapse for every bus stops making an assumption that every bus stop generate the same amount of passengers every minute. More time is wasted in picking up passengers and plus if the bus is full, time is wasted in telling people to move into the rear and so on and so forth and the BC will be waiting for the people to squeeze into the bus and to ensure safety before he or she closes the entrance door. Hence, bus bunching occurs.
2. Traffic conditions.
What I can suggest is knowing that 147 is a service that often experiences the problem of bus bunching which can be so severe up to a point where I can see at IRIS, waiting time for the next bus to arrive is 28 mins, 4 mins, 2 mins, 4 mins, 2 mins, 2 mins, spare buses should be left at the int so that in case of anything, freq of the service is ensured. Anyway, the mins here represents the distance between each other after a bus passes by a specific bus stop. This is taken during the Mid - Autumn Festival organised at Chinatown on 15th of September 2007.
Just a thought. And besides, is the thing in bold a common way to so called curb bus bunching problem? -
Another reason is the down trips. The down trips may depart on time, but the other buses which are supposed to be in front or behind the down trip bus may not be on schedule, and end up bunching with the down trip bus. This is also a big problem on 179A today, where even the 179A BCs doing the PM peak don't start on time. I've seen 4 buses start 179A at the same time.Originally posted by tanjun:Coming to the topic of bus bunching, it will tend to occur for the following reasons.
1. If a bus is behind schedule by x mins, it will have to pick up y more passengers due to the x mins lapse for every bus stops making an assumption that every bus stop generate the same amount of passengers every minute.
2. Traffic conditions.
-
i was waiting for bus 325 that time
no bunching, but i was there at 8.55am. There were quite a number of pple waiting and the normal waiting time is around 15 mins
In the end, the bus came at 915am, and I counted 22 people at the bus stop.
For a feeder bus with a short route, isn't SBS inefficient considering that their buses cannot keep to the time specified?
In Germany, even if buses travel far, their arrival times are within few minutes of the stated time. Why can't SBS even achieve that for a mere feeder bus? -
Probably because since Germany is a huge country there is a larger space allocated per car on the roads compared to Singapore which has very little space...Originally posted by eagle:i was waiting for bus 325 that time
no bunching, but i was there at 8.55am. There were quite a number of pple waiting and the normal waiting time is around 15 mins
In the end, the bus came at 915am, and I counted 22 people at the bus stop.
For a feeder bus with a short route, isn't SBS inefficient considering that their buses cannot keep to the time specified?
In Germany, even if buses travel far, their arrival times are within few minutes of the stated time. Why can't SBS even achieve that for a mere feeder bus? -
no, there are lesser lanes per road as compared to singaporeOriginally posted by Oceane:Probably because since Germany is a huge country there is a larger space allocated per car on the roads compared to Singapore which has very little space...
Parking is a big problem there, so the number of cars shouldn't be that little. Furthermore, cars are much cheaper than in Singapore.
Yet surprisingly, the buses comes on the dot, such that no one can really give the excuse that they are late because the bus came late. -
Well but if you compare the amount of space given for a car in Germany to Singapore, you'd probably find that even with many cars the cars do not clog up while driving... a very fine example is the North-South Highway in Malaysia. 2 lanes per direction, yet the distance between each car, on average is around 50-100m.Originally posted by eagle:no, there are lesser lanes per road as compared to singapore
Parking is a big problem there, so the number of cars shouldn't be that little. Furthermore, cars are much cheaper than in Singapore.
Yet surprisingly, the buses comes on the dot, such that no one can really give the excuse that they are late because the bus came late.
Singapore expressways have 3-5 lanes per direction, yet it gets clogged up almost every other day.
And Malaysia has a large number of cars as well as the pricing is cheaper there.
So I'd guess the clogging problem has to do with the limited amounts of space in Singapore... but what can we do?
Just live with it lor... 
-
so you think for the route of bus 325 at that time in the morning, it is still clogged?Originally posted by Oceane:Well but if you compare the amount of space given for a car in Germany to Singapore, you'd probably find that even with many cars the cars do not clog up while driving... a very fine example is the North-South Highway in Malaysia. 2 lanes per direction, yet the distance between each car, on average is around 50-100m.
Singapore expressways have 3-5 lanes per direction, yet it gets clogged up almost every other day.
And Malaysia has a large number of cars as well as the pricing is cheaper there.
So I'd guess the clogging problem has to do with the limited amounts of space in Singapore... but what can we do? Just live with it lor...
For some buses with very long routes, that is understandable. But for this service?
Germany's expressways has 2 lanes, and it does clog up at some exits in the morning. -
There is a BC from Sv 325 who drives slowly and late for most of the time. Most of the time, the bus that is behind of his will manage to catch up his bus.Originally posted by eagle:i was waiting for bus 325 that time
no bunching, but i was there at 8.55am. There were quite a number of pple waiting and the normal waiting time is around 15 mins
In the end, the bus came at 915am, and I counted 22 people at the bus stop.
For a feeder bus with a short route, isn't SBS inefficient considering that their buses cannot keep to the time specified?
In Germany, even if buses travel far, their arrival times are within few minutes of the stated time. Why can't SBS even achieve that for a mere feeder bus?
Notice most of the time that once he reached the interchange, he would tap his card and continue on with the next trip, rarely ever take any rest.
Perhaps, this may be the problem.
Or I may be wrong. 
-
325 is not a short feeder. it is classified as a long feeder. equivalent to gg from clementi to chiantown the dist. there is of course possible jams along the way.
325 drivers also tend to drive slowly for no particular reason. that is possible why they r always late. in fact lately feeder buses r more like tortoise buses.
as for 147 there are jams in chiantown hence the downroutes. problem is the downroutes DUN DO TOWARDS CLEMENTI
hats why they gan jiong at int n biah leaving until two bus left at same time
ZYX -
Oceane, you cannot compare suburban and inter-town traffic with those inside the city area. NSE does not clog up also because of toll charges - allocation of resources to those who really need it.
You have not seen the jams every morning and evening in and out of KL through KL-Seremban Expressway (KLSE), which is a part of NSE E2 though technically not. -
you take 325 go where? =SOriginally posted by eagle:i was waiting for bus 325 that time
no bunching, but i was there at 8.55am. There were quite a number of pple waiting and the normal waiting time is around 15 mins
In the end, the bus came at 915am, and I counted 22 people at the bus stop.
For a feeder bus with a short route, isn't SBS inefficient considering that their buses cannot keep to the time specified?
In Germany, even if buses travel far, their arrival times are within few minutes of the stated time. Why can't SBS even achieve that for a mere feeder bus?
if you are going HG point that part...can take 72.
going hougang green/buangkok green take 101.
imo 325 is so draggy and useless >_> -
Originally posted by tanjun:
During peak hours the 147 takes under 2 hours for one trip. to be exact its 1 hour 46-51min. Of course it will exceed 2 hours if the driver is more than 10min behind schedule.
And the most interesting thing is that both buses came its berth at the same time.
It is considered very tough driving service 147.
1. Route has 35 stages from Hougang to Clementi.
2. Encounters frequent traffic jams along Jalan Besar to Bras Basah Rd
3. I have researched 3 yrs ago for 147, it takes around 2 hrs for a bus to travel from Hougang to Clementi. I am not sure how long it takes for now but what I know is that it is definitely longer than 2 hrs due to high number of vehicles on the road now.
Just a thought. And besides, is the thing in bold a common way to so called curb bus bunching problem?
The best way to solve the problem highlighted by you is for 9216 to depart as what you said, with 7313 to start a downroute from Bendemeer Rd or Serangoon MRT, depending on how behind schedule is he. The main point is for 7313 to go back to schedule. Of course this would depend on how behind time is this fella. I dont think he will start from Hougang Ave 2 because by the time he reaches there, 9216 would have reached around Monfort Sch, no point. -
i totally agree. it is draggy but it is not useless. 325 is useful for peeps gg Hg ave 2 to go kovan etc. bbut then..why not amend 325 to kovan end there n have this 329 go from HG int direct via ave 9 and loop at st 91..Originally posted by Y_Shun:you take 325 go where? =S
if you are going HG point that part...can take 72.
going hougang green/buangkok green take 101.
imo 325 is so draggy and useless >_>
ZYX
better service i tink to the st 91 n ave 9 peeps -
Another reason is the down trips. The down trips may depart on time, but the other buses which are supposed to be in front or behind the down trip bus may not be on schedule, and end up bunching with the down trip bus. This is also a big problem on 179A today, where even the 179A BCs doing the PM peak don't start on time. I've seen 4 buses start 179A at the same time.
Yup. I am just wondering why do they have to do downtrips for 179A since the route is rather short. It just makes things very complicated be it timings and schedules. And, I agree with you that it also causes the problem of bus bunching.
Anyway, I have several encounters with 147 having to wait for a very long time. It can be very frustuating especially for someone who is rushing for time.
Hence, one of my frens who can take 147 directly to his hse choose to take NEL instead from Paradiz to Serangoon and then walk 15 mins from there to his hse.
I understand that bus bunching problem is a tough nut to crack plus the fact that bus captain is one of the most shunned jobs in Singapore as reported by The Straits Times some time ago regarding about jobs that most Singaporeans shunned. SBST and SMRT recognises the problem and have been doing their utmost effort to solve the problem. However, given the surging vehicle population (it seems more and more like an excuse), I can say that the problem of bus bunching can get worse in the future. Then, I guess that I will be like the rest of the commuters, whine about the declining bus service standards, having to wait for long hrs just for a bus.
Anyway, on my way from Ubi to my hse towards AMK direction, I was on 25. It occurred this morning at around 0930. There was a very serious traffic jam stretching from AMK Ave 3 at the junction with Serangoon Nth Ave 1 all the way to AMK Ave 3 at the junction with YCK Rd. It was due to an accident by a bus with another vehicle according to another frenz of mine who resides along the road. In SIngapore, one traffic accident can cause the whole stretch of road to clog up, plus the surging number of vehicles, woot, I can't imagine that. Other roads which are often clogged up are Paya Lebar Rd near Ubi, and also Eunos Link between Bedok Reservoir Rd and PIE. Besides, COE prices for cars are falling.
I haven't been to Germany before, so I don't know about their road infrastructure. Someone has told me that I should be thankful of Singapore Transport System cos there are other countries which its traffic jams can get so worse such that cars can remain stationary for hours, and hence reduce work productivity.
My view on public transport. -
It had better pax before the amendment to Hg Ave 2Originally posted by ZYX2005:i totally agree. it is draggy but it is not useless. 325 is useful for peeps gg Hg ave 2 to go kovan etc. bbut then..why not amend 325 to kovan end there n have this 329 go from HG int direct via ave 9 and loop at st 91..
ZYX
better service i tink to the st 91 n ave 9 peeps
The killer part is the traffic light junction between Upper Serangoon Rd and Hougang Ave 2/3 as that area will experience traffic jam during peak hours and it will take around 5+ mins to make the right turn to Hougang Ave 2 which waste a lot of time. -
Yeah, I can agree.Originally posted by ZYX2005:325 is not a short feeder. it is classified as a long feeder. equivalent to gg from clementi to chiantown the dist. there is of course possible jams along the way.
325 drivers also tend to drive slowly for no particular reason. that is possible why they r always late. in fact lately feeder buses r more like tortoise buses.
ZYX
Last week, I joyride on this service. The BC drives so slowly! That time I ride on SBS2647Y.
1 hour 7 mins for full route! Even longer than service 113! -
I have ever encounter 4 147 B9TLs bunching up!
This happen on 2 July 2007, at abt 1430hrs, Yio Chu Kang Rd. -
agree with the red part.Originally posted by gorby107:It had better pax before the amendment to Hg Ave 2
The killer part is the traffic light junction between Upper Serangoon Rd and Hougang Ave 2/3 as that area will experience traffic jam during peak hours and it will take around 5+ mins to make the right turn to Hougang Ave 2 which waste a lot of time.
imo, its v. hard to plan route in hg =/
you can satisfy this part of residents, but cannot satisfy the other part. -
Perhaps they could extend Sv 115 to ply to some other parts of HG.Originally posted by Y_Shun:agree with the red part.
imo, its v. hard to plan route in hg =/
you can satisfy this part of residents, but cannot satisfy the other part.
From my observation, there are slight increase of passengers taking the service, even with the arrival of Sv 113.
Many commuters complained on the deployment of the NAC bus.
One elderly complained to MP Cynthia Phua but she told her that old people scared cold, so it is still alright to continue to use NAC bus
Pity the perm BC who drive this service, but also quite relaxing. -
tot last time they said that Sv 115 was to come out from hg dep...dunno how it became to start from kovan hub.Originally posted by gorby107:Perhaps they could extend Sv 115 to ply to some other parts of HG.
From my observation, there are slight increase of passengers taking the service, even with the arrival of Sv 113.
Many commuters complained on the deployment of the NAC bus.
One elderly complained to MP Cynthia Phua but she told her that old people scared cold, so it is still alright to continue to use NAC bus
Pity the perm BC who drive this service, but also quite relaxing.
really interested in the original route of sv115 that sbst wanted.
maybe they can do out somehing like townlink 268/265. -
I heard both BCs talk to each other for a short while before driving off. The BC of 9216 mentioned to the BC of 7313 about waiting for a couple of mins before driving off and of course grumbling about the officer at the Transitlink Office telling him and the other BC to drive off as soon as they reach the int to scan their card. Please spare a thought for our bus captains. They have worked hard too. There was once I enocuntered a bus captain who explained to passengers last time about how come the long wait for 147.Originally posted by service_238:During peak hours the 147 takes under 2 hours for one trip. to be exact its 1 hour 46-51min. Of course it will exceed 2 hours if the driver is more than 10min behind schedule.
The best way to solve the problem highlighted by you is for 9216 to depart as what you said, with 7313 to start a downroute from Bendemeer Rd or Serangoon MRT, depending on how behind schedule is he. The main point is for 7313 to go back to schedule. Of course this would depend on how behind time is this fella. I dont think he will start from Hougang Ave 2 because by the time he reaches there, 9216 would have reached around Monfort Sch, no point.
His reason: Jalan Besar jammed. And he joked that he hadn't gone to the toilet yet to finish undone tasks.
I agree with you as mentioned above. 7313 should start a downroute by the time lapse. 9216 may have picked up more passengers but less passengers are affected by the bus bunching problem.
Passing by SBST website, under the FAQ section, there is a question asked by many commuters about Why do Bus Captains drive so slowly?
The reply from SBST was something about to prevent bus bunching and to ensure that bus captains. I doubt the effectiveness of that. -
Originally posted by Y_Shun:you take 325 go where? =S
if you are going HG point that part...can take 72.
going hougang green/buangkok green take 101.
imo 325 is so draggy and useless >_> Can also take 161. When i go IMH i would take 161, although some times frequency can be rather bad but at least BC not so slow. i only take 325 if i have to go street 91 -
Alamak,Bus brunching also complain,Bus late also complain.What gonna happen to Singaporeans nowadays?I rather have 147 brunching rather than have to wait 35mins per bus.
-
35 mins waits do happen for service 325Originally posted by carbikebus:Alamak,Bus brunching also complain,Bus late also complain.What gonna happen to Singaporeans nowadays?I rather have 147 brunching rather than have to wait 35mins per bus. -
u doubt the effectiveness of it? U imagine the whole fleet of sv147 chiong at a fast speed. lets sae 10 buses speed.. and can u imagine the next time freq is at 60 min? Do u want tat? Or u rather want to have a constant freq in between buses?Originally posted by tanjun:I heard both BCs talk to each other for a short while before driving off. The BC of 9216 mentioned to the BC of 7313 about waiting for a couple of mins before driving off and of course grumbling about the officer at the Transitlink Office telling him and the other BC to drive off as soon as they reach the int to scan their card. Please spare a thought for our bus captains. They have worked hard too. There was once I enocuntered a bus captain who explained to passengers last time about how come the long wait for 147.
His reason: Jalan Besar jammed. And he joked that he hadn't gone to the toilet yet to finish undone tasks.
I agree with you as mentioned above. 7313 should start a downroute by the time lapse. 9216 may have picked up more passengers but less passengers are affected by the bus bunching problem.
Passing by SBST website, under the FAQ section, there is a question asked by many commuters about Why do Bus Captains drive so slowly?
The reply from SBST was something about to prevent bus bunching and to ensure that bus captains. I doubt the effectiveness of that.