Bus whose body is diagonally oriented when going straight ?!
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Interesting to note !
When you say 'west', you mean in western part of Singapore or in the western world ??
What's the make/model of those buses ?Originally posted by TIB1224Y:Yeah that was what I thought too...
I saw some buses in the west which have the same situation too... -
Looking only from that rear photo, i'll say it could be front tyre puncture & / or right side suspension air imbalance i.e. either of both cases certainly justifies immediate maintenence attention & the vehicle should NOT be used until serviced !
Bearing in mind air-suspension generally requires low maintenence & the fact that O 405 has been in-use for 10+ years, it's only timely it be given it's due overhaul servicing ! I know M-B's do have very long service lives (20 years NOT uncommon due to their fundementally sound & advanced engineering !) but that does NOT mean corners can be cut on maintenence !!
Problem with some operators i suspect is that they think since they already invested quite a sum on a 1st class vehicle, therefore they can just get by giving 2nd or 3rd class maintenence ?! Such thinking is basically wrong because 1st class vehicle only deserves 1st class maintenence, nothing less !
Also noteworthy (but less obvious to most people) is the state of maintenence given to vehicles in the SJE fleet. I believe their maintenence standard is worse than either SBS or SMRT-TIBS ! In the case of their SH 114, took them hell of a long time to reduce the excessive noise & vibration @ idling due to the air-con compressor coming on, remaining unresolved is the jerky & sometimes squeaking accelerator pedal linkage which in turn makes it difficult to drive smoothly etc. Also their SH 111 seems to be using non original i.e. perhaps counterfelt sub-standard exhaust silencers, making it noisier than the 'standard' levels ! Shame on them for tolerating such shoddy attitude towards maintenence ! They probably say it's due to their cost constrains etc. BUT the point remains those 2 examples i've mentioned above are among the upper class of bus-chassi (being air-suspended M-B V8's in the coach class !) therefore as matter of course DO deserve equally up-class maintenence standards in order to rightfully maintain their originally designed standards, which the commutor rightfully expects !Originally posted by chickenlittle2:This was extracted from this forum, so this is the air leak suspension
btw, this bus shall be SBS3766E (AMDEP 24) although the rego is censored. -
I understand what hseochin means,Its matter of chassis alignment.SBST Mercs also faces this kind of situation.I've seen some private buses also with similiar scenario when they speeding
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Yup, its the buses in the West of Sg.Originally posted by hseochin:Interesting to note !
When you say 'west', you mean in western part of Singapore or in the western world ??
What's the make/model of those buses ?
They tend to be Merc most of the time.
One of them that I saw a few weeks back was 3904Z, which ironically broke down today...
And so, the wheel alignment factor, there were many a times when a SMRT Merc would emit the sounds of 'thump thump thump thump' particularly in the front axle when running at high speeds (50-60km/h) and shake from side to side, sometimes violently (as in very noticeable vibrations that make people talking). -
one of the vo2x on sv74 also leans to the right, altho the leaning not as bad as the o405 in the pic, but still, annoying to look at.
makes the left side wheels look as if thy had really bad inward camber.
(BTW VSO just passed under my house. LOL.) -
The "thump thump" or loud rolling sounds came from the rear of the bus(SBS 507G). Is it the suspension sound? I heard someone saying that it is a tied suspension? what does that mean?Originally posted by TIB1224Y:Merc would emit the sounds of 'thump thump thump thump' particularly in the front axle when running at high speeds (50-60km/h) and shake from side to side, sometimes violently (as in very noticeable vibrations that make people talking). -
no..it makes the bus more stable thats allOriginally posted by chickenlittle2:The "thump thump" or loud rolling sounds came from the rear of the bus(SBS 507G). Is it the suspension sound? I heard someone saying that it is a tied suspension? what does that mean? -
Stable but the bus seems to go in a diagonal way..Originally posted by SBS9888Y:no..it makes the bus more stable thats all -
Loud rolling sound is from the Merc Hub Reduction axle . But im still finding out what is causing the thumping sound . Sometimes you can even feel the 'thump'.Originally posted by chickenlittle2:The "thump thump" or loud rolling sounds came from the rear of the bus(SBS 507G). Is it the suspension sound? I heard someone saying that it is a tied suspension? what does that mean? -
saw lots of SBST DM MB405s are in this situation
some times its quite common on PIE svc 502.. -
From your feedback, i'm afraid you do not understand what i mean.
So far, based on the quality of replies i've seen here, just around 1 to 2 persons have really got my points !!
I wish people do bother to read carefully & digest BEFORE making any feedback, so as to ensure your replies are relevant to the starting post !?
I people read all my posts completely in this heading, you'll understand by now that the vehicle along Selegie Road was doing only ~ 50 km/h in evening peak hour traffic, therefore no real issue of 'speeding' then !! Also, i add here the road was dry as normal.
I've also explained why the M-B's here CANNOT possibly have such situations due to fundamental differences in chassis design, especially under similar driving conditions.
BTW, i'll also add here that it's NOT probable also that a 3-axle coach or bus-chassi would have such a problem IF the driven axle is the middle axle instead with the 3rd axle just a non-steerable trailing axle, as is the case in most 3-axle coaches.
In the context of my starting post, i'm NOT interested in situations of excessive speed, slippery wet road conditions etc. which results in skidding simply because that's 'understood' stuff which almost ANY vehicle can encounter under improper control ! I'm talking about under 'normal' (i.e. non-skid !) driving conditions that i saw such a vehicle behave like that.Originally posted by carbikebus:I understand what hseochin means,Its matter of chassis alignment.SBST Mercs also faces this kind of situation.I've seen some private buses also with similiar scenario when they speeding -
Based on your description below, such 'thumping' sounds & vibrations tend to be due to poor wheel & / or tyre maintenence !! I can almost sense it directly coming from the tyres. Re-balancing may be needed.
Any vehicle with high mileage would be in greater need of wheel-tyre maintenence. High time the operators wakeup & attend to them !!
No need to wait for puncture before doing something !
Not an issue with the bus-chassis itself.
In fact i notice the superior suspension ride comfort characteristics inheirant on a design like O 405 enable greater tolerance or 'insulation' from such vibrations compared to lower grade spring suspended bus-chassis BUT that does NOT mean that operators can try cutting some corners off wheel-tyre maintenence !!Originally posted by TIB1224Y:Yup, its the buses in the West of Sg.
They tend to be Merc most of the time.
One of them that I saw a few weeks back was 3904Z, which ironically broke down today...
And so, the wheel alignment factor, there were many a times when a SMRT Merc would emit the sounds of 'thump thump thump thump' particularly in the front axle when running at high speeds (50-60km/h) and shake from side to side, sometimes violently (as in very noticeable vibrations that make people talking). -
But would there be a danger of the tires disintegrating (from the re-groove line?) or sort? The vibrations would be quite severe at times...Originally posted by hseochin:Based on your description below, such 'thumping' sounds & vibrations tend to be due to poor wheel & / or tyre maintenence !! I can almost sense it directly coming from the tyres. Re-balancing may be needed.
Any vehicle with high mileage would be in greater need of wheel-tyre maintenence. High time the operators wakeup & attend to them !!
No need to wait for puncture before doing something !
Not an issue with the bus-chassis itself.
In fact i notice the superior suspension ride comfort characteristics inheirant on a design like O 405 enable greater tolerance or 'insulation' from such vibrations compared to lower grade spring suspended bus-chassis BUT that does NOT mean that operators can try cutting some corners off wheel-tyre maintenence !! -
there are certain volvo strider in sg.. the tires not maintained properly.
theres one on 159 previously (forgot rego) that goes zzzm zzzm zzzm zzm whenever the bus moves. it goes faster, the zzzm's just get closer. -
saw i tink 181 or 185(near my home), when it is travelling, i saw that the body is reall diagonally oriented, diagonally oriented as in the cabin is not parallel to the wheels...
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So it seems what i saw is not the 1st such case.
Come to think of it, perhaps that's also a reason why they always try to tell people to move towards the rear (so as to spread more weight loading over the 3rd driven axle) & also that on the newer bodyworks (like those used on Volvo B9TL) they now re-located the exit door more towards the rear so that hopefully more people would move towards the rear ?!
As i see it, having a 3-axle chassis design with the driven axle placed last (instead of the middle) is like having a front-wheel drive truck ! No wonder the vast majority of trucks (even light duty models) are of rear wheel drive so as to ensure maximum driving traction exerted by the cargo payload over the rear axle.Originally posted by MyPillowTalks:saw i tink 181 or 185(near my home), when it is travelling, i saw that the body is reall diagonally oriented, diagonally oriented as in the cabin is not parallel to the wheels... -
Possible , but rare . Usually it will result in uneven tire wear , which results in quicker tire change and leading to greater expenses . Tire wear , still don't change ? Tire suffers a catastrophic failure aka tire blowout.Originally posted by TIB1224Y:But would there be a danger of the tires disintegrating (from the re-groove line?) or sort? The vibrations would be quite severe at times...
The problem of noisy sounds and severe vibrations when speeding , i already suspect is from the tires . I read from Michelin's website that faulty wheel alignment or unevenly worn tires can result in violent vibrations when speeding . -
How did you know its a V8 engine ?Originally posted by hseochin:BUT the point remains those 2 examples i've mentioned above are among the upper class of bus-chassi (being air-suspended M-B V8's in the coach class !)
The 2 exhaust pipes and SUPER loud engine i also suspect V8 . -
Talking about the 2nd trailing axles on LO3x and VO3x, I always see that the tyres on the 2nd axle forever looks worn..Making it looks like rubber is going to drop off in chunks from the tyres..How come? Does SBST throws the old, used and re-grooved tyres to the 2nd axle of the LO3x and VO3x?Originally posted by hseochin:So it seems what i saw is not the 1st such case.
Come to think of it, perhaps that's also a reason why they always try to tell people to move towards the rear (so as to spread more weight loading over the 3rd driven axle) & also that on the newer bodyworks (like those used on Volvo B9TL) they now re-located the exit door more towards the rear so that hopefully more people would move towards the rear ?!
As i see it, having a 3-axle chassis design with the driven axle placed last (instead of the middle) is like having a front-wheel drive truck ! No wonder the vast majority of trucks (even light duty models) are of rear wheel drive so as to ensure maximum driving traction exerted by the cargo payload over the rear axle.
Same for the B9TL actually..I've also seen some B9TL's 2nd axle having worn-looking tyres when the bus in question, and the Bridgestone R192s, is still so new!
Added: Or is it like you've said, too much weight is on the 2nd axle, causing premature wear and tear of the tyres on the 2nd axle? -
I was making a point on the somewhat 'so-so only' standard of maintenance done on SJE's buses, in particular like SH 114 or SH 111. I know that's V8 partly from background literature then verifying by visually checking out the chassis & also from listening to the type of engine sounds it gives.
For me, even if i hadn't the benefit of seeing the literature beforehand, i would still have concluded it's V8 based on knowing what's around this market & the nature of the engine sound.
The 2 exhaust pipes in the above 2 buses are 'genuine' in that it leads to seperate silencers leading to seperate exhaust manifolds on the V-type engine, not the 'fake' twin-pipes i've seen on some Volvo B7R & Hino RM etc. which is nothing more than 2 pipes sticking out from only 1 silencer coming from only 1 exhaust manifold since those are relatively small cc 6-cylinder in-line (i.e. non V-type) engines only.
As for loudness, although when moving off the engine appears 'loud' (due to the nature of big cc engines with their corresponding much higher sound power) however once settled down to crusing speeds even @ 100 km/h it becomes as quiet if not more quiet than engines half or 1/3 its capacity !!
The notes of the noise produced by a big cc engine tends to be on the low end of the frequency spectrum hence less obvious to the ear compared to those from small cc engine (even if these are charge-cooled which is standard nowadays) which emit more high notes hence more obvious even when the road speed is say only 60 km/h.Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:How did you know its a V8 engine ?
The 2 exhaust pipes and SUPER loud engine i also suspect V8 . -
From what i know, the 2nd axles only have 1 tyre per wheel (like the front axle) to take the load unlike the 3rd (driven) axle with 2 tyres per wheel.
So not surprising if wear is faster when using 1 tyre instead of 2 to take a particular load.
I believe the weight of the bus is 'transferred' from front to rear 'passing' thru the 2nd axle before only leaving some for the 3rd axle.Originally posted by alleggerita:Talking about the 2nd trailing axles on LO3x and VO3x, I always see that the tyres on the 2nd axle forever looks worn..Making it looks like rubber is going to drop off in chunks from the tyres..How come? Does SBST throws the old, used and re-grooved tyres to the 2nd axle of the LO3x and VO3x?
Same for the B9TL actually..I've also seen some B9TL's 2nd axle having worn-looking tyres when the bus in question, and the Bridgestone R192s, is still so new!
Added: Or is it like you've said, too much weight is on the 2nd axle, causing premature wear and tear of the tyres on the 2nd axle? -
nt to forget that the wear and tear more obvious on VSO and B9 cos they cannot steer the tag axle so it rubs when they make sharp turns
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You saw the chassis?Originally posted by hseochin:I was making a point on the somewhat 'so-so only' standard of maintenance done on SJE's buses, in particular like SH 114 or SH 111. I know that's V8 partly from background literature then verifying by visually checking out the chassis & also from listening to the type of engine sounds it gives.
For me, even if i hadn't the benefit of seeing the literature beforehand, i would still have concluded it's V8 based on knowing what's around this market & the nature of the engine sound.
The 2 exhaust pipes in the above 2 buses are 'genuine' in that it leads to seperate silencers leading to seperate exhaust manifolds on the V-type engine, not the 'fake' twin-pipes i've seen on some Volvo B7R & Hino RM etc. which is nothing more than 2 pipes sticking out from only 1 silencer coming from only 1 exhaust manifold since those are relatively small cc 6-cylinder in-line (i.e. non V-type) engines only.
As for loudness, although when moving off the engine appears 'loud' (due to the nature of big cc engines with their corresponding much higher sound power) however once settled down to crusing speeds even @ 100 km/h it becomes as quiet if not more quiet than engines half or 1/3 its capacity !!
The notes of the noise produced by a big cc engine tends to be on the low end of the frequency spectrum hence less obvious to the ear compared to those from small cc engine (even if these are charge-cooled which is standard nowadays) which emit more high notes hence more obvious even when the road speed is say only 60 km/h.
Think theres this bus at Genting too . I tell you , its freaking powerful. The bus doesn't suffer from insufficient power at all when climbing the Genting hills. The engine just roars and up goes the bus . My ultimate fav old timer bus.
Not to forget its immensely loud humming engine when climbing up a steep incline while leaving my resort. 
Anyone knows which Coach company have this bus model? I want to take a coach with a merc V8 engine ! I took that model once from Johor to SG and i want to take it again badly.
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toking abt this...i think majority of the coaches in M'sia might not hav hub-reduction axle, making it struggle to climb up hills lyk the B10Ms. and everytime after reaching the top of the hill and all the passengers alighted, the bus has to be sent for some checks of the engine to see if it needs maintenance.Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:You saw the chassis?
Think theres this bus at Genting too . I tell you , its freaking powerful. The bus doesn't suffer from insufficient power at all when climbing the Genting hills. The engine just roars and up goes the bus . My ultimate fav old timer bus. Not to forget its immensely loud humming engine when climbing up a steep incline while leaving my resort.
Anyone knows which Coach company have this bus model? I want to take a coach with a merc V8 engine ! I took that model once from Johor to SG and i want to take it again badly. -
You can say i've seen the chassis, but with the bodywork on it. Having noted the 15078 cc capacity i know Daimler does not have that engine in any other configuration except V8. You see 4 valve covers over 2 opposing rows on the engine so you know 4x2 = 8 cylinders.
As for performance, i naturally won't expect any problems up here in this class. I do believe in the latest 2nd generation Travego 3-axle coach Daimler has developed this engine further by increasing it to ~ 16000 cc, change to 4-valve per cylinder, add charge-cooling & additives to make it Euro-4 compliant yet still keeping output @ 476 BHP & 2000++ Nm !!
However the M-B V8's used by SJE & in Malaysia i think is the 'tamer' version because of it's earlier less developed design but it's nice to know Daimler hasn't abandoned bus V-engine production & still offers the V8 as it's top end engine option. To me it's not merely the performance alone that makes me prefer the V8, but rather the 'overall' engine 'experience' expressed in terms of the superior refinement factor thru the generally low noise, vibration & harshness levels over the performance spectrum of the engine. Because if you only want performance, nowadays i believe you already have the new generation MAN & Scania in Malaysia with 4-valve/cylinder charge-cooled 12000 cc engines of only in-line 6 cylinders producing say up to 422 BHP, which is quite close to the new M-B V8's of 476 BHP. BUT the 'problem' i'll expect from these in-line 6 smaller cc engines is the lack of the feel of the above mentioned 'refinement class' which only tends to come from big cc V8 engines. Something like why they still make cars with V-12 engines when in-line 6 cylinder engines can be modified also to produce quite close performance levels but minus the classy 'refinement' factor which only the V-type engines can offer.
As for the M-B V8's in Malaysia, i believe Genting Resorts operates some departing from KL Sentral & Pudu Raya many times daily. Unlike the newer charged-cooled small cc engines, the big cc V8's can make do with quite low RPM's yet still move smoothly, quietly with strong torque uphill without the absolute need to rev hard. Of course if they rev it hard then the potency increases without the need to 'struggle' unlike the smaller cc's.
Besides Genting Resorts other operators i know include Transtar, 5-Star, Sri Maju not forgetting an operator (name forgotten) who even changed the exhaust to AMG twin-type !! Nowadays i'll take it via Sri Maju for the KL-SGP trip & of course via SJE if between JB-SGP. Those on Transtar seem noisier to me while those on Sri Maju are quieter even @ the extreme rear just next to the engine. I'll put it as due to different coachworks used by these different operators. But whatever the case, i always get this 'one up' sensation when aboard a V8 vehicle in that you know you're like 1 class up over the rest with only 6-cylinders ! That itself, to me, more than compensates for forgoing any of the questionable frills like massaging seats, individual videos etc. on the newer but only 'lowly' in-line 6-cylinder coaches.
If taking it within Singapore, i think the peak hour private bus service on 640 has at least 1 unit. Seen it along Selegie Road with passengers. They changed the M-B star to a gold plated version (perhaps to reflect the V8 status) using Kassbohrer Setra coach headlamps.Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:You saw the chassis?
Think theres this bus at Genting too . I tell you , its freaking powerful. The bus doesn't suffer from insufficient power at all when climbing the Genting hills. The engine just roars and up goes the bus . My ultimate fav old timer bus. Not to forget its immensely loud humming engine when climbing up a steep incline while leaving my resort.
Anyone knows which Coach company have this bus model? I want to take a coach with a merc V8 engine ! I took that model once from Johor to SG and i want to take it again badly.