Land Transport Review
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Yes.Originally posted by tanjun:Oh I see. Cos normally when I take 812 to the interchange from Yishun SAFRA, 812 will always change into 812E. Perhaps I am wrong.
Just wondering, regarding point no. 4, the BC will take a 10 minute break with passengers onboard, does that mean that the passengers will have to waste 10 minutes staying on the bus?
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I beg to differ. I believe the driver is early that's why he wayang in the interchange with the passengers.Originally posted by Oceane:Yes.
All terminating trips usually comes from the 2nd part of the route. Like the SBST Townlinks, the timesheet is as follows:
T1 and T2 mean the same interchange, while the ITP (Intermediary Trip Point) is in between T1 and T2.
S291
01 0500 T1
03* 0513
06 0525 T2
09* 0536
13 0548 T1
S291
01 0548 T1
03* 0602
06 0616 T2
09* 0628
13 0639 T1
Break 0639 0651
and the cycle continues.. sometimes the bus will do just one trip before having a break. -
I think the demand is there for passengers within the loop. Especially from 4xx to 6xx and 8xx, the only way currently is to take 811/812 to interchange before transferring to 806 or 804, a total waste of time.Originally posted by Oceane:The loop is quite big yeah...
Of all the feeder/intratown services in Yishun, only 804 and 812 are good services. Passenger demand is high and the route is short and simple. But they could use some more buses, especially 804. 6 buses is a bit too little for it's demand.
I still remember before Yishun street 41 was built, 804 couldn't accommodate artics and had to do a 3 point turn at Ave 1, during those times, the rigids was always pack like sadines to the door! 
Now its so much better...
Not really 10 mins but around 5 mins +- 3mins... the break also depends on the peak/ non peak. morning/evening breaks are much much shorter as there are more ppl traveling to the eastern side of the loop.Originally posted by tanjun:Just wondering, regarding point no. 4, the BC will take a 10 minute break with passengers onboard, does that mean that the passengers will have to waste 10 minutes staying on the bus? -
Nope. BC has to tap the card on the Timekeeper office first regardless on whether he is early or late. For Service 812 buses, sometimes it's just a 10-second wait, sometimes it's a 5-minute wait, because there is only 1 bus on BREAK at any time at Yishun INT.Originally posted by service_238:I beg to differ. I believe the driver is early that's why he wayang in the interchange with the passengers.
All terminating trips usually comes from the 2nd part of the route. Like the SBST Townlinks, the timesheet is as follows:
T1 and T2 mean the same interchange, while the ITP (Intermediary Trip Point) is in between T1 and T2.
S291
01 0500 T1
03* 0513
06 0525 T2
09* 0536
13 0548 T1
S291
01 0548 T1
03* 0602
06 0616 T2
09* 0628
13 0639 T1
Break 0639 0651
and the cycle continues.. sometimes the bus will do just one trip before having a break.
However, for 811, when the BC drives in the bus after first round of southern loop, he HAS to wait because the sequence of buses is such that only after he reaches the INT the 2nd bus doing eastern loop will move.
Let's assume Bus A is on BREAK, while Bus B is doing first round of south loop.
Only when Bus B reaches the terminal will Bus A move. This is due to their fleet size as well as journey time. Hence Bus B has to wait at the interchange for a sizeable time (8 minutes or more) before Bus B can depart the interchange again for 2nd round of eastern loop. Hence it is actually quite normal to have to wait in the interchange on board 811 for more than 10 minutes (usually). Often when I take 811 to go to Chong Pang for my haircut I experience the same situation.
The reason why 812 does not have such long waits is because due to the fleet size and it's journey time. Assuming we have Bus A and Bus B again, with Bus B now doing the first round of eastern loop.
Bus A moves off on Central loop FIRST before Bus B arrives. Hence when Bus B arrives the BC just needs to tap his card and he can move off already. Thus at any time in the interchange there will only be 1 812 bus on BREAK, and when other 812 buses arrive in the interchange USUALLY both the Central and East loop buses arrive.
So, before these buses arrive there's only 1 812 bus.
After 812 buses arrive the number will increase to 3 (temporarily).
The bus doing central loop will move on immediately to do east loop, while the east loop bus we will have to see. If it's only completed first round then the BC taps card at TK office then he is allowed to move off. If he has completed 2 rounds then he drives his bus to park while the bus that has been parking at 812 bendy lots will the proceed to do Central loop. So after both Central and East loop buses leave, the number reduces to 1 again.
811 is a special case. At any time in the interchange there will be TWO buses; 1 on BREAK (after doing 2 rounds) and another also on BREAK (but after doing 1 round). So the BC that is doing short BREAK after first round has to wait for the next bus to come into INT before he can move.
804 practically has no breaks for BC. Arrive into BC straightaway continue another round. I think they may have JUMP BUS for it but I'm still unsure of it. Could be BC does a few times before he is allowed to JUMP BUS. -
There was actually quite a short period of time whereby bendies were already used before ST 41 was constructed. The buses still use the reversing space meant for them at AVE 1, but the BCs were specially trained on how to reverse out of it.Originally posted by XiaoTaro:I think the demand is there for passengers within the loop. Especially from 4xx to 6xx and 8xx, the only way currently is to take 811/812 to interchange before transferring to 806 or 804, a total waste of time.
I still remember before Yishun street 41 was built, 804 couldn't accommodate artics and had to do a 3 point turn at Ave 1, during those times, the rigids was always pack like sadines to the door! Now its so much better... -
Distanced Based Fare will be nice....
cheaper...haha not too much stress on adults using transport and transfering buses. -
I see, thanks for clarifying. I only remember 804A has artics deployed because they could reverse at northbrooks.Originally posted by Oceane:There was actually quite a short period of time whereby bendies were already used before ST 41 was constructed. The buses still use the reversing space meant for them at AVE 1, but the BCs were specially trained on how to reverse out of it.
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there is a worry that it'll penalise short-distance travellers by having higher base fares to justify the system.Originally posted by Y_Shun:Distanced Based Fare will be nice....
cheaper...haha not too much stress on adults using transport and transfering buses.
for example, fares might be present-day $1 (no inflation) for the first 8 stages but cheaper for those transferring. -
To add on to ur point of penalizing short distance travelers, i wonder what will happen to the feeder and intratowns/townlinks. Will they also adopt this fare system? or stay with its flat fare?Originally posted by ^tamago^:there is a worry that it'll penalise short-distance travellers by having higher base fares to justify the system.
for example, fares might be present-day $1 (no inflation) for the first 8 stages but cheaper for those transferring.
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Somehow I got the feeling that LTA will mess the bloody thing......
(like Mah Bow Tan did) then leave to another Transport minister to clear the shit...
Another white paper for 10 year review....
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Seriously I'm wondering does Mdm Saw mean wat she say
Alrdy no compeition alrdy dusty bus and sort, got compeition wun there be evil cost cutting? -
I think so. Even though this will go against the argument from tpt operators that a feeder bus utilise the same resource as a trunk bus and therefore shld charge the base fare. In fact, such an argument goes against the idea of hub-and-spoke. So I wonder what's their stance now.Originally posted by XiaoTaro:To add on to ur point of penalizing short distance travelers, i wonder what will happen to the feeder and intratowns/townlinks. Will they also adopt this fare system? or stay with its flat fare?
Not forgetting that our Government likes to move 3 steps forwards, then move 2 steps backwards. -
Distance based charges is like a complete new system. It is similar to the system adopted in MRT. The current system in buses is to tap when one boards the bus and tap again when one alights the bus.
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I was thinking of such a scenario just now... if someone boards a feeder service and alights somewhere further in town, buys something within 5 mins and takes the feeder back home, how much will he be charged? Considering that the total displacement is 0...Originally posted by ^tamago^:I think so. Even though this will go against the argument from tpt operators that a feeder bus utilise the same resource as a trunk bus and therefore shld charge the base fare. In fact, such an argument goes against the idea of hub-and-spoke. So I wonder what's their stance now.
Not forgetting that our Government likes to move 3 steps forwards, then move 2 steps backwards. -
Originally posted by Oceane:I was thinking of such a scenario just now... if someone boards a feeder service and alights somewhere further in town, buys something within 5 mins and takes the feeder back home, how much will he be charged? Considering that the total displacement is 0...
That's interesting.
I think they won't go by distance base if its intra-town travelling...
But considering the fact that the place is 5 minutes away...might as well walk there, ya? Better than waiting for a bus. -
i think unless theres 2 different feeders serving between the person's house and the place to buy something, it wont work out. Highly likely they will adopt the current approach, i.e transfers between same service is considered a new ride instead of given transfer rebates.Originally posted by Oceane:I was thinking of such a scenario just now... if someone boards a feeder service and alights somewhere further in town, buys something within 5 mins and takes the feeder back home, how much will he be charged? Considering that the total displacement is 0... -
Wah how come Yishun intratowns so complicated one.
Firstly Oceane, please dont label the 2nd half of the 811/812 route as 811E/812E even though most of the terminating trips occur for this section of the route. The whole route is still 811/812. E only comes in when the bus is required to terminate regardless of which loop it is currently in.
And to emphasise my point, it can be seen even more clearly for Woodlands intratown services 911, 912, 913. Just like their Yishun counterparts, all three services have majority E trips for the western sections of their routes towards the checkpoint and back.
However, that doesnt mean the eastern section of the route does not have terminating E trips. During the checkpoint jams and when the diversions for these feeders take place, SMRTB will quickly deploy E trips for both sections of the routes, such that the residents in say, Woodlands Ring Road which usually gets 912s, will now see nothing but 912Es.
The rationale is simple, to ensure that the eastern loops for 911, 912, 913 will not get affected regardless of the checkpoint jams. So whether you like it or not, if you are from Admiralty MRT station and wanna travel to say, Marsiling Road, you still have to board a 913E and alight at WRI and transfer to another 913E towards Woodlands Checkpoint.
As such, what Im trying to emphasise here is that labelling one of the two loops for an intratown service as the "E" loop is wrong because both loops can be "E" loops still.
However, I expect such intratown services to be culled and replaced by normal feeder services once LTA takes over since the interchanges will now be the hubs, though fare payable may still be the same. -
I mean he took 5 mins to buy something...Originally posted by n4l:
That's interesting.
I think they won't go by distance base if its intra-town travelling...
But considering the fact that the place is 5 minutes away...might as well walk there, ya? Better than waiting for a bus. -
I don't think Yishun Intratowns very complicated leh. Quite simple if one observes enough.Originally posted by TIB1171R:Wah how come Yishun intratowns so complicated one.
Firstly Oceane, please dont label the 2nd half of the 811/812 route as 811E/812E even though most of the terminating trips occur for this section of the route. The whole route is still 811/812. E only comes in when the bus is required to terminate regardless of which loop it is currently in.
And to emphasise my point, it can be seen even more clearly for Woodlands intratown services 911, 912, 913. Just like their Yishun counterparts, all three services have majority E trips for the western sections of their routes towards the checkpoint and back.
However, that doesnt mean the eastern section of the route does not have terminating E trips. During the checkpoint jams and when the diversions for these feeders take place, SMRTB will quickly deploy E trips for both sections of the routes, such that the residents in say, Woodlands Ring Road which usually gets 912s, will now see nothing but 912Es.
The rationale is simple, to ensure that the eastern loops for 911, 912, 913 will not get affected regardless of the checkpoint jams. So whether you like it or not, if you are from Admiralty MRT station and wanna travel to say, Marsiling Road, you still have to board a 913E and alight at WRI and transfer to another 913E towards Woodlands Checkpoint.
As such, what Im trying to emphasise here is that labelling one of the two loops for an intratown service as the "E" loop is wrong because both loops can be "E" loops still.
However, I expect such intratown services to be culled and replaced by normal feeder services once LTA takes over since the interchanges will now be the hubs, though fare payable may still be the same.
As for labelling the routes, I've changed to saying the direction of the town the route goes, like East or South loop. However it's rather rare to find 811E bus on the Eastern loop or 812E bus on the Central loop. I've only encountered 2 such cases in my 8 years of taking 812; once which I forgot and another was a Lance cameo which was going to OS after reaching terminal to be sent back to AMDEP. Most cases are due to very rare unforseen circumstaces unlike WDL feeders that may occur often. -
Let's say someone takes 811 from N2 area to N1 area Chong Pang to buy an item... then he takes 800 back to N2. How much will his total trip cost?Originally posted by XiaoTaro:i think unless theres 2 different feeders serving between the person's house and the place to buy something, it wont work out. Highly likely they will adopt the current approach, i.e transfers between same service is considered a new ride instead of given transfer rebates. -
LTA want to plan bus routes liao... Chia lat leow... We must go back to taxi...
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For 911, you will always see the 911E's on both sides during AM Peak. All the OS-Shifts are 911Es, so at the non "E" loop we have TIB525K and some service 963 bus doing the duty, and if you want to alight at WL Checkpoint you would have to transfer to another bus that serves the "E" part. I am not sure how many OS-Shifts on the 911E side but there is 1 which I know using any of the perms. Same case, if you want to alight at Street 81 you have to transfer to a non "E" bus.Originally posted by TIB1171R:Wah how come Yishun intratowns so complicated one.
Firstly Oceane, please dont label the 2nd half of the 811/812 route as 811E/812E even though most of the terminating trips occur for this section of the route. The whole route is still 811/812. E only comes in when the bus is required to terminate regardless of which loop it is currently in.
And to emphasise my point, it can be seen even more clearly for Woodlands intratown services 911, 912, 913. Just like their Yishun counterparts, all three services have majority E trips for the western sections of their routes towards the checkpoint and back.
However, that doesnt mean the eastern section of the route does not have terminating E trips. During the checkpoint jams and when the diversions for these feeders take place, SMRTB will quickly deploy E trips for both sections of the routes, such that the residents in say, Woodlands Ring Road which usually gets 912s, will now see nothing but 912Es.
The rationale is simple, to ensure that the eastern loops for 911, 912, 913 will not get affected regardless of the checkpoint jams. So whether you like it or not, if you are from Admiralty MRT station and wanna travel to say, Marsiling Road, you still have to board a 913E and alight at WRI and transfer to another 913E towards Woodlands Checkpoint.
As such, what Im trying to emphasise here is that labelling one of the two loops for an intratown service as the "E" loop is wrong because both loops can be "E" loops still.
However, I expect such intratown services to be culled and replaced by normal feeder services once LTA takes over since the interchanges will now be the hubs, though fare payable may still be the same.
This way, the frequencies of the service will be faster, but then I see TIB525K's OS-Shift far to useless because it keeps on bunching up with 465A which is in front of it, and 525K rarely picks up any pax at all, and it arrives to the interchange too early, about 3 minutes after 465A. Now with the addition of the Service 963 bus it seems worse. TIB465A is picking up almost 0 pax from WRI and only picking up the pax who wants to go to the "E" section of the route, making 525K's shift almost useless. To me, 525K seems useful only if you are late on catching 465A -
Actually to summarize how a BC in 811 works is.Originally posted by Oceane:Let's say someone takes 811 from N2 area to N1 area Chong Pang to buy an item... then he takes 800 back to N2. How much will his total trip cost?
Point A(Chong Pang), Pont B(interchange), Point C(N8 Neighbourhood)
a BC starts his job from
Point B -> Point A -> Point B -> Point C ->Point B -> Point A ->
*pause* and at Northpoint outside the bus stop he changes the sign to 811E *continue*
Point B -> Point C -> Point B (end of service) -
Hopefully it means better coordinated bus routesOriginally posted by NickL_C151:LTA want to plan bus routes liao... Chia lat leow... We must go back to taxi...
But it's likely if the bid is going by the bundle, I suspect many private operator also dun want... I believe they would not want to be tied on service obligation on not so profitable routes -
291 always got T on the st 31 loop!
