Land Transport Review
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is the yishun feeder post revelant to this thread? why cant we discuss in another thread?
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just like my place, i got 269/138 (along amk Ave 5), 76/268 along ave 4 to take to AMK Central.Originally posted by XiaoTaro:i think unless theres 2 different feeders serving between the person's house and the place to buy something, it wont work out. Highly likely they will adopt the current approach, i.e transfers between same service is considered a new ride instead of given transfer rebates.
Imagine, if the new fare structure start, i might be paying the minimum fare, if i want to travel to some other place and then back within a certain period.
For example, i take sv 76 to Upper paya lebar, buy something or eat something or what, and then take 22/24 back to AMK central and then take 268/138/269 back to my place. I might be paying the lowest fare, in this case, if i am able to meet the transfer time limit . So in the end, the bus company loses money?
i think it is really quite difficult for them to plan of something. will have to plan carefully... -
It really depends on how LTA is going to plan their fare system.Originally posted by lemon1974:just like my place, i got 269/138 (along amk Ave 5), 76/268 along ave 4 to take to AMK Central.
Imagine, if the new fare structure start, i might be paying the minimum fare, if i want to travel to some other place and then back within a certain period.
For example, i take sv 76 to Upper paya lebar, buy something or eat something or what, and then take 22/24 back to AMK central and then take 268/138/269 back to my place. I might be paying the lowest fare, in this case, if i am able to meet the transfer time limit . So in the end, the bus company loses money?
i think it is really quite difficult for them to plan of something. will have to plan carefully...
I think its sort of weird when they promise cost saving for passengers having transfers (look at the example in the news paper). The bus company will still have same operational costs (even higher due to fleet renew/ oil prices) and where will this cost saving go to? it must end up somewhere to cover the operational costs or else the bus co. will make losses.
My worry is they might end up bringing up the fares for shorter rides to cover this cost saving. Also, will it also end up in another fare hike to cover this cost saving?
Just 2cents of my thoughts...
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The logic is a bit not there. Ok maybe i'm too used to how SBST Townlinks operate for the Tampines and Pasir Ris ones. How about you copy either/or an 811/812 weekday timesheet then we analyse from there? Best if you are able to get 2 of each service.Originally posted by Oceane:Nope. BC has to tap the card on the Timekeeper office first regardless on whether he is early or late. For Service 812 buses, sometimes it's just a 10-second wait, sometimes it's a 5-minute wait, because there is only 1 bus on BREAK at any time at Yishun INT.
However, for 811, when the BC drives in the bus after first round of southern loop, he HAS to wait because the sequence of buses is such that only after he reaches the INT the 2nd bus doing eastern loop will move.
Let's assume Bus A is on BREAK, while Bus B is doing first round of south loop.
Only when Bus B reaches the terminal will Bus A move. This is due to their fleet size as well as journey time. Hence Bus B has to wait at the interchange for a sizeable time (8 minutes or more) before Bus B can depart the interchange again for 2nd round of eastern loop. Hence it is actually quite normal to have to wait in the interchange on board 811 for more than 10 minutes (usually). Often when I take 811 to go to Chong Pang for my haircut I experience the same situation.
The reason why 812 does not have such long waits is because due to the fleet size and it's journey time. Assuming we have Bus A and Bus B again, with Bus B now doing the first round of eastern loop.
Bus A moves off on Central loop FIRST before Bus B arrives. Hence when Bus B arrives the BC just needs to tap his card and he can move off already. Thus at any time in the interchange there will only be 1 812 bus on BREAK, and when other 812 buses arrive in the interchange USUALLY both the Central and East loop buses arrive.
So, before these buses arrive there's only 1 812 bus.
After 812 buses arrive the number will increase to 3 (temporarily).
The bus doing central loop will move on immediately to do east loop, while the east loop bus we will have to see. If it's only completed first round then the BC taps card at TK office then he is allowed to move off. If he has completed 2 rounds then he drives his bus to park while the bus that has been parking at 812 bendy lots will the proceed to do Central loop. So after both Central and East loop buses leave, the number reduces to 1 again.
811 is a special case. At any time in the interchange there will be TWO buses; 1 on BREAK (after doing 2 rounds) and another also on BREAK (but after doing 1 round). So the BC that is doing short BREAK after first round has to wait for the next bus to come into INT before he can move.
804 practically has no breaks for BC. Arrive into BC straightaway continue another round. I think they may have JUMP BUS for it but I'm still unsure of it. Could be BC does a few times before he is allowed to JUMP BUS.
804 do have breaks and they dont jump bus. They simply do 2-4 trips of 804 before having a break.
you still have lots to learn my friend. -
It's amazing that you proclaim and market yourself as a Yishun bus fan and did not notice the special bus stop almost directly opposite Yishun MRT which is only served by 811. This bus stop effectively divides the circuitous route into 2 parts, where peeps living in Ave 7/Sembawang Rd just take the bus to this bus stop, alight and cross the road to transfer to the MRT. From Ave 7 it takes no more than 10mins.Originally posted by Oceane:Ya... 811 is one of them. Turn right out of INT then going past the industrial estate, crosses AVE 2 and heads to Chong Pang. After which, it turns left opposite Yishun MRT Station (instead of right) into AVE 2 and turns right, past the industrial estate, by which turning out after the CC and finally reaches the terminal.
Waste of time.
For residents living along Sembawang Rd/Yishun Ave 7, there's always the option of the much shorter 800 or 965 back home.
If you have bothered to take 811 before, you would have noticed that the bus loads is lowest between the abovementioned bus stop and Ave 7, where it starts picking up workers working in the industrial park and residents back to Yishun Int, where it is at most a 10-15mins ride away for that section.
Thus effectively the portion of the route is divided into 3 sections serving 2 rather seperate groups -
Yishun Int->Yishun Ave 7 (ITE, workers, residents in N3,N2)
Yishun Ave 7->Yishun Ave 5 (opp Yishun MRT) (residents in N7, N1)
Yishun Ave 7->YIshun Int (ITE, workers, residents in N3,N2)
The connection between these 2 groups serves a small passenger base who will find it a direct convenient link (eg housewives going to Chong Pang market, students studying at Ahmad Ibrahim Secondary) -
Wrong again, my dear friend. Svc 804 SLs rests for an equivalent of 1-2 trips after every trip, which translate to about 8mins during non peak and 5-7mins during peak hour. Yes, they rest even during peak hours unless they are very late that they appear to do another trip out immediately (not that common).Originally posted by Oceane:804 practically has no breaks for BC. Arrive into BC straightaway continue another round. I think they may have JUMP BUS for it but I'm still unsure of it. Could be BC does a few times before he is allowed to JUMP BUS.
I also don't think 804 jumps bus at all; its inherited from TIBS days that SLs are assigned to their own bus which is carried on until now. -
Sounds good but unfortunately you can't smoke the resident who had depended on the service for some 20yrs now.Originally posted by Oceane:There was actually quite a short period of time whereby bendies were already used before ST 41 was constructed. The buses still use the reversing space meant for them at AVE 1, but the BCs were specially trained on how to reverse out of it.
I believe that I had clarified this a couple of times in other threads on this forum, so for the benefit of those who missed them, true bendies did appear on 804 before St 41 was opened, BUT the bendies started downroute only after Yishun Ring Rd/Yishun Ave 11 junction. This was a regular afternoon arrangement that started in '99 (bendies after '00) to help with the afternoon school crowd.
Seeing the bendies or even producing a photograph of a svc 804 bendy further down the route or disembarking passengers at Yishun Ave 2/Yishun MRT does not imply that the bus actually did the full route with the 3 point turn!
The only time when bendy appeared on 804 and did full route was in '99 when they did try with a box bendy and appeared that the bus had much difficulty doing the U-turn and the idea was subsequently dropped to have bendies run full route on 804. It was only after the Yishun St 41 amendment that bendies became permanent on 804. -
Ignore the post~
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One of the ST pix for the Transport Review report is quite nostalgic, TPY Int in 2002....with Scanias running around on the feeders, and a LO2x on 157 parking at where the current feeder lots (last time no allocated lots),. and a WA Merc on 157/163, all in, SBS livery, maybe except for theat LO3x which sems partially hidden behind.
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Even current SMRT Trains standards are mediocre compared to pre-SPH days.Originally posted by ^tamago^:We don't have to look far to know why SMRTB has lost its soul the day it was not longer Tibs and not under charge of ex-Tibs management.
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1 thing i know although they say wont pay much for transfer,minimum fares will be $1.20 instead of 90cents
Open tenders to private operator,must be joking.Unless that private company got links with govt.Our dear gahmen has this motto,in 1 bus 3 tyres belong to me while the 1 tyre you split with me ok -
Ok, i just have some queries.
Since LTA is taking over the bus route planning, would that mean the bus interchanges would still be operated like currently whereby SBS & SMRT controls one interchange? Since they are going to be allowed to operate outside their current areas, would LTA take over the running of the interchanges? -
All Interchanges and terminals are owned by LTA,bus operators only authorised to operateOriginally posted by simnatic:Ok, i just have some queries.
Since LTA is taking over the bus route planning, would that mean the bus interchanges would still be operated like currently whereby SBS & SMRT controls one interchange? Since they are going to be allowed to operate outside their current areas, would LTA take over the running of the interchanges? -
I can't agree more with you. Will be moving into my 2nd home in Boon Lay. Been taking the EW line from Boon Lay to Pasir Ris very often these days, waiting time is atrocious and not to mentioned how packed the train gets reaching the town area all the way to (Tanah Merah onwards to Pasir Ris).Originally posted by off_service:Even current SMRT Trains standards are mediocre compared to pre-SPH days.
SMRT's self-proclaimed "World Class Transport" . -
I know that. Im not asking who will own the interchange. I'm merely asking how will the operations be like in the future when there would be many operators everywhere.Originally posted by carbikebus:All Interchanges and terminals are owned by LTA,bus operators only authorised to operate -
well in this case under the nw system, the user will be charged 0.00. its good for him in a sense. he just go out buy something come back mah. not as if he gg work or town u see.Originally posted by Oceane:I was thinking of such a scenario just now... if someone boards a feeder service and alights somewhere further in town, buys something within 5 mins and takes the feeder back home, how much will he be charged? Considering that the total displacement is 0...
its rather fair. however a good time cap of say 2 hous for a single trip shd be good should the fella take bus all day and go home . he still will be charged.
in this case perhaps an adoptation of through fare based on way travelled wd be ebtter but if LTA wants displacement fares, well
its very fair really
ZYX -
I like the idea of route bidding, London style. But I prefer HK style, where 2 companies run the same service, which I call it direct competition, but there aren't many cross territory routes, that's the sian thing. If S190 receives such as treatment from both SBST and SMRT, shiok. Lolx.
SBS1710D (Best MKII award winner) -
Adding on, subway monopoly makes more sense. For bus routes, we can have up to 3 contractors judging from the city size.Originally posted by off_service:Agree.. TIBS is the way to go!! -
I think there should be cooperation between bus operators, whereby they contribute a number of buses to one particular route.Originally posted by sbs&tibs:I like the idea of route bidding, London style. But I prefer HK style, where 2 companies run the same service, which I call it direct competition, but there aren't many cross territory routes, that's the sian thing. If S190 receives such as treatment from both SBST and SMRT, shiok. Lolx.
SBS1710D (Best MKII award winner)
Eg one that serves all five polytechnics and controlled by both operators, and using buses from each company's depots.
Try googling "circle route" and you get my drift. -
Better this way, so tat places esp Sembawang, Yew Tee gets well connected to other parts of Singapore. SMRT buses really sucks according to cleaniness, route connectivity and also no new buses purchased since 2003.Originally posted by tintinspartan:Wonder if SBST takes over SMRT Buses?
No teasing intended here to all loyal SMRT Bus Fans
Skali in future will have DDs in Yishun, Sembawang, Yew Tee, CCK and Bt Panjang
For MRT network hopefully will become 1 company operator thruout Singapore (like in HK MTR and KCR merged lately). -
Nothing came out of the google searchOriginally posted by iveco:Try googling "circle route" and you get my drift..
You meant:
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~ D E L E T E D W R O N G P O S T ~
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Hmm... But I'm very sure I did see Habits doing full 804 before construction of ST 41 began. Well no pictures but I'm very sure because my father was driving past the three-point turn and I peeked out of the window to see Habits reversing.Originally posted by TIB1186Z:Sounds good but unfortunately you can't smoke the resident who had depended on the service for some 20yrs now.
I believe that I had clarified this a couple of times in other threads on this forum, so for the benefit of those who missed them, true bendies did appear on 804 before St 41 was opened, BUT the bendies started downroute only after Yishun Ring Rd/Yishun Ave 11 junction. This was a regular afternoon arrangement that started in '99 (bendies after '00) to help with the afternoon school crowd.
Seeing the bendies or even producing a photograph of a svc 804 bendy further down the route or disembarking passengers at Yishun Ave 2/Yishun MRT does not imply that the bus actually did the full route with the 3 point turn!
The only time when bendy appeared on 804 and did full route was in '99 when they did try with a box bendy and appeared that the bus had much difficulty doing the U-turn and the idea was subsequently dropped to have bendies run full route on 804. It was only after the Yishun St 41 amendment that bendies became permanent on 804.
Tracing back a bit, bendies used to be not able to shift out of the 3 point turn but if my memory serves me right there was some changes made to the 3 point turn to enlarge it, and then bendies could be used.
Correct me if I'm wrong... -
OK will try to. Best time is when BC steps off from bus to tap card on TK office then move in and snap.Originally posted by service_238:The logic is a bit not there. Ok maybe i'm too used to how SBST Townlinks operate for the Tampines and Pasir Ris ones. How about you copy either/or an 811/812 weekday timesheet then we analyse from there? Best if you are able to get 2 of each service.
804 do have breaks and they dont jump bus. They simply do 2-4 trips of 804 before having a break.
you still have lots to learn my friend.
From my knowledge there is no actual break stated on the timesheet but the BC can take a break (a short one) if he is early when driving 812. But for 811 the break is prolonged so I will try to check the timesheet to see if it does have an actual break in between rounds. -
I dont see a reason why a passenger can be charged 0.00. and definitely that contradicts with ur point of fairness. How can it be fair when a passenger utilizes the public transport system without paying a cent? Instead, he will be either charged the minimum fare, or the system will be smart enough to distinguish that he is traveling to and fro once between his home and the place to buy stuff and in this case, 2 times the minimum fare.Originally posted by ZYX2005:well in this case under the nw system, the user will be charged 0.00. its good for him in a sense. he just go out buy something come back mah. not as if he gg work or town u see.
its rather fair. however a good time cap of say 2 hous for a single trip shd be good should the fella take bus all day and go home . he still will be charged.
in this case perhaps an adoptation of through fare based on way travelled wd be ebtter but if LTA wants displacement fares, well
its very fair really
ZYX
I believe LTA is modeling the system to work such that a passenger do not get penalized for making multiple transfers between his origin and destination (and between bus / MRT), and this is the only target audience which will really see the benefit in this system. aka distance based fares.