'Habit' Bendy Bus; what's ur take?
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Title should read: 'Habit bendy buses; What's your take?
Been thinking about this topic for quite a long while...
Bendy buses, take our local Mercedes Benz 0405G first, how do you think about it? I guess folks in the West, North and any former TIBS territory will know well about this kind of buses...
Would you prefer the 4 speed ZF version, or the 3 speed Voith version? For some they feel that the ZF have more acceleration power, higher top speed (for some, experiences on 'special' buses), while some feel that Voith-ed buses are the ones that have more burst in acceleration...
If you are given a chance to plan bus purchase today, what gearbox would you choose for this series of buses, given that they are of the same weight and configuration?
Any other opinions on the Mercedes Benz 0405G Habits are also welcomed here...
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voith i will take... cos i feel theres something unique about voith sounds. especially the whistling, NBS sound and the 'retarder' like sound when the bus stops hard
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ZF 4-speed for me. I like the ZF 4HP500 on Habits , especially TIB1123E, TIB1149G , TIB1160Y and some others. Very sweet. Voiths somehow like struggle when under heavy loads. Voith when retarder kicks in, on Habits , can sometimes make you fall.
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i seldom take cuz its not WAb bus even tho it look like WAB bus from outside
evil lol
ZYX
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I am only aware of 4-speed Voiths installed in the Habits. Have not come across any with 3-speed Voiths.
Nonetheless, I am not particularly fond of the Voiths. Never quite like the long time it takes to upshift from 1st to 2nd/lockup.
The main failing point is the aircon outlets. They should have used the aircraft style aircon outlets used in most European buses or just stick with the standard ones we have in Singapore.
I do love the nice pastel interior. A major change from the green we have in SMRT/TIBS's earlier vehicles.
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Originally posted by Yusry:
I am only aware of 4-speed Voiths installed in the Habits. Have not come across any with 3-speed Voiths.
Nonetheless, I am not particularly fond of the Voiths. Never quite like the long time it takes to upshift from 1st to 2nd/lockup.
The main failing point is the aircon outlets. They should have used the aircraft style aircon outlets used in most European buses or just stick with the standard ones we have in Singapore.
I do love the nice pastel interior. A major change from the green we have in SMRT/TIBS's earlier vehicles.
The Voiths we have on our Habits are 3-speed only. Its DIWA 863.3. Notice closely, there are only 2 shifts. 4-speed voith have 3 shifts. Maybe you mean foreign Habits that has 4-speed voiths?
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i'd prefer to mate these Habits with Voith. the first batch of Habits with Voith were the best. runs smoother than the last batch of Voith's.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
i'd prefer to mate these Habits with Voith. the first batch of Habits with Voith were the best. runs smoother than the last batch of Voith's.
Somemore seats more comfortable.
But i prefer second batches. They somehow got 'more power'. -
Should have used the original Mercedes W4E gearbox.
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Sorry..
Voith for me..
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Originally posted by Yusry:
I am only aware of 4-speed Voiths installed in the Habits. Have not come across any with 3-speed Voiths.
Nonetheless, I am not particularly fond of the Voiths. Never quite like the long time it takes to upshift from 1st to 2nd/lockup.
The main failing point is the aircon outlets. They should have used the aircraft style aircon outlets used in most European buses or just stick with the standard ones we have in Singapore.
I do love the nice pastel interior. A major change from the green we have in SMRT/TIBS's earlier vehicles.
I have also heard from some BC either in casual chatting or in the toilet saying that '4 gear bendies' and sometimes they would say there is no '3 gear bendies'.
But so to say, I believe that the Voith versions in Sg are 3 speed due to the acceleration difference from 4 speed Voiths and they only go 'silent' two time on the way to maximum speed...
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Originally posted by TIB1224Y:
I have also heard from some BC either in casual chatting or in the toilet saying that '4 gear bendies' and sometimes they would say there is no '3 gear bendies'.
But so to say, I believe that the Voith versions in Sg are 3 speed due to the acceleration difference from 4 speed Voiths and they only go 'silent' two time on the way to maximum speed...
The Voith gearboxes are most likely 4 speed, but 4th gear only kicks in at 70km/h and above. The speed limiter kicks in at 60-65km/h so most likely that is why the buses seem to have only 3-speed gearboxes. -
Well, maybe I could be wrong about the Habits having 4 speed gearboxes.
But since Voith designs their 4-speed gearboxes as 3-speeds with a 0.7 overdrive and most buses are tuned to run at their optimal speeds at a 1.00 ratio, the 4-speed gearboxes will have a similar performance as the 3-speeds in Singapore's 60kmh speed-limiting context.
So unless someone actually has checked underneath the chassis for the gearbox model, there is still a remote possibility of the gearboxes being 864s.
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It's very habitual.
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
The Voith gearboxes are most likely 4 speed, but 4th gear only kicks in at 70km/h and above. The speed limiter kicks in at 60-65km/h so most likely that is why the buses seem to have only 3-speed gearboxes.Hmm , i've seen some Voith Habits that hit 70km/h, but still theres no change. However, at 70km/h , the engine would have been screaming like mad. Its really weird to tune the gearbox for the 4th gear to be kicked in at 70km/h. Maybe someone could confirm this myth.
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Yep, just take the 812 bendies for example. 5 out of the 6 perm buses are Voith, with 1207Y as the only ZF. What surprises me most is that the BC can pull out of the bus stop at Block 322 and attain 60km/h just before the T-junction, and chiong all the way past SAFRA to the next bus stop at Block 651.
This is what I call Voith power.=D
Well firstly, IMO, Voith bendies are able to speed up very easily compared to ZF bendies (especially 1st batchers, 1019Z ~ 1023K, 1061A, 1063U ~ 1147L), which take an extra long time to achieve high speeds (we're talking about 60km/h). Having recorded times down before, I can conclude that if both types of buses were to have the BC jam the accelerator, a Voith bendy takes only about 4 seconds to hit 3rd gear (after which the 3rd shift helps to propell the bus forward) while the ZF takes 10 seconds (on average) to hit 4th gear (the push-effect takes place after 4th gear).
Secondly, although I believe all ZF bendies were equipped with ZF 4HP500 (correct me if I'm wrong), I still can't get why 2nd batchers of the ZF (1148J ~ 1207Y) are able to switch gears faster than 1st batchers. Perhaps this is an unsolved myth.
Thirdly, let's just say that it has proven itself, that ZF bendies are more prone to overheating than Voith bendies. Let the technical experts explain this. I can't. =D
So I'll stll go for Voith. The Voith has proven itself on the O405G that it can actually outrun a ZF bendy (I've seen it before, 1231B outrun 1160Y with both at the same starting point and both BCs flooring the bus).
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
The Voith gearboxes are most likely 4 speed, but 4th gear only kicks in at 70km/h and above. The speed limiter kicks in at 60-65km/h so most likely that is why the buses seem to have only 3-speed gearboxes.I agree to your point. Just like some of the Scanias, they never seem to attain the sixth gear. It may just be the settings...
If we could see the speciafications that comes with our Habit Bendies, we would then be sure about it...
To Oceane, is it true that the Voith Bendies can hit third gear in 4 seconds? I have not tried recording before but they seem to take slightly longer than this, but for a ZF with 1st gear lockup, the time would be slower than a Voith Bendy in terms of hitting maximum speed. That is if the Voith Bendy is not at maximum engine performance, also called 'flooring accelerator'. With the a Voith version and ZF version at max performance together, its hard to say who would win; it all depends on which BC give up first...
However, the monitoring the accelerator movement have another catch; in the shipment of TIBS Habits, the accelerators of both the ZF and Voith versions have something which is till now only known as 'kickdown swtich' in my dictionary. I believe that the name is not really so, but the swtich works like this...
If you depress the accelerator normally, the engine would run at normal capacity, but if the BC depress all the way in, there would be a 'tak' sound, and the engine would go into kickdown, notably, engine sound increases and the gear goes down by one step. This is different from normal kickdown; take service 77A to experience a normal kickdown.
I have noticed that in fact, Habits with Voith gearboxes are the only ones which can manually kickdown to the 1st gear, while ZF bendies only reach the 2nd gear in the same action. For service 77A as example, climbing the same grade with 100 percent passenger load, the ZF bendy would only remain at 2nd gear 1500-1100rpm, while the Voith version can hit 2nd gear 1500rpm steady. By the end of the grade, the ZF bendy would have almost finished its momentum and just nice, the grade ends, while the Voith bendy can shift to the third gear and complete the next turn at 50km/h plus. The ZF would turn only at about 40km/h.
Generally, many would like to associate ZF Bendies with speed, and Voith Bendies with initial pickup.
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Originally posted by Oceane:
Yep, just take the 812 bendies for example. 5 out of the 6 perm buses are Voith, with 1207Y as the only ZF. What surprises me most is that the BC can pull out of the bus stop at Block 322 and attain 60km/h just before the T-junction, and chiong all the way past SAFRA to the next bus stop at Block 651.
This is what I call Voith power.=D
Well firstly, IMO, Voith bendies are able to speed up very easily compared to ZF bendies (especially 1st batchers, 1019Z ~ 1023K, 1061A, 1063U ~ 1147L), which take an extra long time to achieve high speeds (we're talking about 60km/h). Having recorded times down before, I can conclude that if both types of buses were to have the BC jam the accelerator, a Voith bendy takes only about 4 seconds to hit 3rd gear (after which the 3rd shift helps to propell the bus forward) while the ZF takes 10 seconds (on average) to hit 4th gear (the push-effect takes place after 4th gear).
Secondly, although I believe all ZF bendies were equipped with ZF 4HP500 (correct me if I'm wrong), I still can't get why 2nd batchers of the ZF (1148J ~ 1207Y) are able to switch gears faster than 1st batchers. Perhaps this is an unsolved myth.
Thirdly, let's just say that it has proven itself, that ZF bendies are more prone to overheating than Voith bendies. Let the technical experts explain this. I can't. =D
So I'll stll go for Voith. The Voith has proven itself on the O405G that it can actually outrun a ZF bendy (I've seen it before, 1231B outrun 1160Y with both at the same starting point and both BCs flooring the bus).
u r rite. BCs of 962 usually floor pedal of Voiths, and even in 200m after a bus stop to a turn, it can reach 60km/h. i liked that part the most! that's why 962 can always win 912. 2nd batch Habits tend to switch gear faster than that of the 1st batch, as their tuning are different. but some ZF Habits really sound like a cat, especially when turning from 2nd to 3rd gear.
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Originally posted by The_Bus_Guide:
Should have used the original Mercedes W4E gearbox.
But engine i prefer OM447h when coupled to W4E.
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Originally posted by nenepokey:
u r rite. BCs of 962 usually floor pedal of Voiths, and even in 200m after a bus stop to a turn, it can reach 60km/h. i liked that part the most! that's why 962 can always win 912. 2nd batch Habits tend to switch gear faster than that of the 1st batch, as their tuning are different. but some ZF Habits really sound like a cat, especially when turning from 2nd to 3rd gear.
I beg to differ.
Theres a debate that engine performance between batch 1 and 2 is different. Some says that batch 1 bendies have OM447hA engines , whereas batch2 has OM447hLA engine.
Power outputs :
OM447hA : HP : Unknown ; Torque: 950Nm
OM447hLA : HP Unknown ; Torque 11ooNm
See the difference? Well its still on debate tho, so it remains argumentative. We need a mechanic to confirm.
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Ermm....
ZF:Good acceleration,Higher top speed but costly to maintance
Voith:Quite sluggish,Good mid-range a bit low on top speed but easy and economical to maintain.
Allison:Best of both world
All depends on the maintenance also but many SLs prefer ZF bendies over Voith ones
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Ermm....
ZF:Good acceleration,Higher top speed but costly to maintance
Voith:Quite sluggish,Good mid-range a bit low on top speed but easy and economical to maintain.
Allison:Best of both world
All depends on the maintenance also but many SLs prefer ZF bendies over Voith ones
But Allison expensve to purchase?
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Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:
But Allison expensve to purchase?
can try to ask the darts driver. they might know.