High Bus Fares for Polytechnic students Online Petition
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Originally posted by service_238:
Do you want to be treated like a secondary school kid in the polytechnic when you are not even wearing a uniform? Or do you want to be treated like a young adult?Before I raise the points on why the polytechnics are considered tertiary institutions and hence charge tertiary fare, let me rebutt your points first.
The fact is the JCs are under the MOE. The polytechnics are under the Stat Board of the government. Naturally JC education is cheaper than a polytechnic. If you feel that poor/low income families cannot make it to the polytechnic, you are totally wrong.
There are tuition grants and subsidies that are provided by Merdaki, CDAC and CPF just to name a few. Since they are gov stat board that's why CPF can be used.
The payroll of the JC teachers and principal are under the MOE. The polytechnic lecturers are under the payroll of the polytechnic itself. As a stat board the government would not give full financial assistance to the polytechnic.
Transportation wise - NP is the least accessible of the 5 polytechnics. And given its popularity and student population, it has students from around the island. The NP Student Union is proactive to get ComDel to have shuttle services to their campus. In contrast, TP also have shuttle services from Bedok and Tampines MRT to its campus.
NYP SP and RP.. no need to say.. They have a nearby MRT station.
Now for my argument: Do you want to be treated like some kids in a secondary school, or young adults getting ready for the working world?
Look are the JCs and ITEs - yes they pay secondary school fares and concessions. Look at how education is taught through them? Look at the cert they receive after they complete their education there?
JCs have lectures, and tutorials. ITEs have lectures, tutorials and workshops. JC gives you the A level cert which in the working world its almost as good as an O level cert. ITEs give you the NITEC or the Higher NITEC certification. This cert is good enough for them to go into the working world, or if their results are good enough, to the polytechnic. I'll stop about the ITEs here as I do not have a full picture on their education system.
The JC has a discipline system. You are not allowed to skip class (though you may AWOL yourself), cannot leave school before lunch, or even do certain things that you think you may be able to do in the JC. It is practically compulsary to join a CCA as well. You cant even plan your own timetable! You still need to run if you are overweight! Things there are rigid and regulation to certain extents. Tell me where is the difference between the JC and secondary school in this aspect?
Look at the Polys and Unis - they pay tertiary fares and concessions, adult fares if not on concession. They graduate with a Diploma/Degree and above.
It is not compulsary to join a CCA. It is not compulsary to attend any events though they dangle CCA points as a carrot sometimes. You may skip class as and when you want (except polys and some uni modules which have attendance requirements). Your timetable is planned by yourself (except some polys). Your classes doesnt start at 8am or 9am (except RP at 8.30am) - you may start as early as 8am, finish as early as 11am, start as late as 2pm, or you dont even have to go to school for that day!
Polys and Unis do not follow the MOE Academic Calender. They can set their own exam papers. They do not take other schools' exam papers for the students to practice which pri, sec and JCs are fond of doing. They use their own past year papers.
Diplomas and Degrees are recognised in the working world. That's partly because you had hands-on experience in the course of your field. In addition, a Diploma grad commands a higher starting pay than an A level graduate. So what do you think?
Both the polys and unis are structured in that manner. Henceforth they are called TERTIARY INSTITUTIONS.
10 years later I will still see this petition. The people who created this petition do not get the rationale behind the bus fares between JC and Poly students. Its not about the similarities in age. Its about the EDUCATION you are receiving.
ITE is also a stat board...
Lols.. -
actually hor. ITE and poly shud charge adult, JC student. (i know i will get flamed for this & i look like i'm asking for it at 1.12am)
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Originally posted by sinicker:
actually hor. ITE and poly shud charge adult, JC student. (i know i will get flamed for this & i look like i'm asking for it at 1.12am)
they are charging adult already what o.o"
only got concession pass only - that's the diff.
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charge everyone CityShopper fare!
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Originally posted by sinicker:
charge everyone CityShopper fare!
best suggestion ever! lta/sbst/smrt better not see this~ later they get idea :(
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Just my 2 cents worth....
As a student myself.. I understand why many poly students are asking for fares to be in par with the JC students. I agree with the fact that most poly students aren't working much during their schooldays and they should deserve cheaper fares. Yes, I agree with that.
But because the cohort for polytechnic students is far greater than JC students, I suppose the govt don't find it financially feasible to give everyone student rates the JC students are enjoying. Some people have been joking that if you want to enjoy cheaper rates... wear school uniform then. But that's more than meets the eye. There are some (I don't mean everybody) who can afford blings blings that cost over hundreds of $$$ but complain on the slightest increase (at most a couple of dollars?) on their textbooks, meals and fares.
On a general consensus, I feel that the petition can still go on... but... instead of asking to be charged 45cents, (which I think the response from the authorities will not be good), why not ask for a cheaper concession pass instead? Since most poly students feel that they are one class above the JC students in terms of freedom of schooling and the quality of education, they wouldn't want to be charged anything associated to "student" rates anymore.... :)
Perhaps they should have a concession pass that are value for money for Poly students instead. They have to be slightly more expensive than "student" pass because of their higher status than normal school kids but cheaper than university concession pass (maybe around $35 for both bus and train concession?). $35 should be reasonable because youngsters frequently hang out to shopping centres and gatherings during weekends and school holidays; apart from schooling during weekdays. Sum and average all of them up, that works out to an average of not more than $1 per bus trip per day.
I guess if we were to suggest this way, it would be more negotiable.
Once again... just a penny of my thoughts... So, no harsh comments on anyone.
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JC need to go school everyday.... poly may not go school everyday?
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The topic title very misleading... when I first read I thought it is a petition by students to increase their bus fares to much higher... in which case no need petition, a phone call into LTA/PTC will settle liao...
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signed (:
but wad are the chances that they're gonna do anything about it?? -
Originally posted by skythewood:
JC need to go school everyday….
poly may not go school everyday?Perhaps if that's the case.... then they can do their own sums to see whether being charged adults fares or taking up concession pass will be cheaper...Either way, they will take the cheaper of the 2. There's no doubt that if you want a democratic and liberalised way of studying, there has to be some compromise being made. We can't possibly satisfy every single human being with any effective policy change... Hence, what we are doing here is to satisfy the majority... that's how life goes... :)
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Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
The topic title very misleading... when I first read I thought it is a petition by students to increase their bus fares to much higher... in which case no need petition, a phone call into LTA/PTC will settle liao...
Yea... same response I got initially... haha...
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Originally posted by maskedangel:
signed (:
but wad are the chances that they're gonna do anything about it??the chances are exponentially high.
edit : inversely LOW. -
Originally posted by lianamaster:
Just my 2 cents worth....
As a student myself.. I understand why many poly students are asking for fares to be in par with the JC students. I agree with the fact that most poly students aren't working much during their schooldays and they should deserve cheaper fares. Yes, I agree with that.
But because the cohort for polytechnic students is far greater than JC students, I suppose the govt don't find it financially feasible to give everyone student rates the JC students are enjoying. Some people have been joking that if you want to enjoy cheaper rates... wear school uniform then. But that's more than meets the eye. There are some (I don't mean everybody) who can afford blings blings that cost over hundreds of $$$ but complain on the slightest increase (at most a couple of dollars?) on their textbooks, meals and fares.
On a general consensus, I feel that the petition can still go on... but... instead of asking to be charged 45cents, (which I think the response from the authorities will not be good), why not ask for a cheaper concession pass instead? Since most poly students feel that they are one class above the JC students in terms of freedom of schooling and the quality of education, they wouldn't want to be charged anything associated to "student" rates anymore.... :)
Perhaps they should have a concession pass that are value for money for Poly students instead. They have to be slightly more expensive than "student" pass because of their higher status than normal school kids but cheaper than university concession pass (maybe around $35 for both bus and train concession?). $35 should be reasonable because youngsters frequently hang out to shopping centers and gatherings outside during weekends and school holidays apart from schooling during weekdays. Sum and average all of them up, that works out to an average of not more than $1 per bus trip per day.
I guess if we were to suggest this way, it would be more negotiable.
Once again... just a penny of my thoughts... So, no harsh comments on anyone.
$35 seems too good to be true. .
a decrease of $5-$10 would be good enough IMO. . . -
Originally posted by sinicker:
the chances are exponentially high.
edit : inversely LOW.
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Originally posted by lianamaster:
But because the cohort for polytechnic students is far greater than JC students, I suppose the govt don't find it financially feasible to give everyone student rates the JC students are enjoying. Some people have been joking that if you want to enjoy cheaper rates... wear school uniform then. But that's more than meets the eye. There are some (I don't mean everybody) who can afford blings blings that cost over hundreds of $$$ but complain on the slightest increase (at most a couple of dollars?) on their textbooks, meals and fares.
hmm....i believe most poly students would have gone through pri and sec education. if they can support students rates for pri and sec, why can't for poly? i don't believe the govt has not enough funds for it.
not financially feasible....sounds like an elitism statement. care to explain why not feasible? aren't those children of taxpaying parents and, perhaps future of sg?
i think the comparison of the ability to afford blings blings and couple of dollars on textbooks, meals and fares is not right. doesn't mean i can afford these blings blings, i have to accept increases. though both involve money, its just like apple and orange, though both are fruits, but it just can't be compared.
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Take bus ?
Buy one car lar . solve everything . Now coe dropping
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Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:
hmm....i believe most poly students would have gone through pri and sec education. if they can support students rates for pri and sec, why can't for poly? i don't believe the govt has not enough funds for it.
not financially feasible....sounds like an elitism statement. care to explain why not feasible? aren't those children of taxpaying parents and, perhaps future of sg?
i think the comparison of the ability to afford blings blings and couple of dollars on textbooks, meals and fares is not right. doesn't mean i can afford these blings blings, i have to accept increases. though both involve money, its just like apple and orange, though both are fruits, but it just can't be compared.
Well... I want you to know that in my argument, I am not saying that the poly cannot have the same fares as JC students. If the petition were to be successful, I will be very happy as well. Who don't want cheaper fares?
But, in my opinion, I feel that the govt might not take the petition too seriously, especially in the current financial crisis, because asking for at least 50% reduction of fares at once for the entire cohort of poly students might be too bitter a pill for them to swallow. Hence, they might need a lot of time to consider this plan. Hence, I suggested that while the relevant authorities debate on this issue, why not set up a "cheaper concession pass scheme" catered just for poly students at the moment so that poly students can enjoy? The drop might not be big.... but hey.... since when do adult fares dropped?
The govt may have lots of funds now, as we all know, but I suppose they are taking a very cautious approach to spending them. Hence, I am not against the petition. We can all try and hope for the best... but just be prepared for the worst case scenario...
As for the comparison analogy, I understand your rebuttal. But, that'd based on observations that I know of. People who can afford high-end products doesn't neccesarily have to accept higher fares but reality checks show that while they might complain about increments in simple fare like books, meals and fares, such sales expensive branded stuff still remain strong and most of the sales are attributed to an increasing number of youngsters nowadays. It isn't uncommon that outsiders, like me, might link those "fruits" together.
Hence, I am trying to be impartial and if the petiton works out fine.. that's good. If not, perhaps my suggestion is worth some seconds of attention? Hehe...
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Originally posted by Karma88:
Take bus ?
Buy one car lar . solve everything . Now coe dropping
Please don't do that....unless you are rich. Buying a car isn't as simple as buying apples in the supermarket. A cheap COE is equivalent to a cheap resale value and at most a few dollars off your instalments. The monthly payment still works out to a sizeable amount for an average car irregardless of how low a COE can drop to. A car is the second biggest asset after buying a house, hence careful planning has to be made first before owning one. Otherwise, people might face debts or worse, bankruptcy, easily. Afterall... if everyone buys car, there will be more traffic jams and this will tempt LTA to set up more ERP gantries... Have to look at a broader perspective bro....
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While I understand that the poly students want lower fares (who doesn't want to pay less? It's a no brainer), then by the same logic, we should give uni students the same low fares. Do you think uni students have the chance to earn a lot (if any) more than poly students?
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Originally posted by First Five-Eights:
While I understand that the poly students want lower fares (who doesn't want to pay less? It's a no brainer), then by the same logic, we should give uni students the same low fares. Do you think uni students have the chance to earn a lot (if any) more than poly students?
Are u a uni student as well?
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Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:
hmm....i believe most poly students would have gone through pri and sec education. if they can support students rates for pri and sec, why can't for poly? i don't believe the govt has not enough funds for it.
funds? govt funds? what govt funds?
it's all cross-subsidising.
that adult fare you paid.....
it helped that small boy take the bus to go to school 3 bus stops away for $0.45. -
then the point comes in why are tetiary students being charged so much...
maybe instead of charging adult fare, there can be a tetiary fare.
maybe starting at 50/60cents then slowly increasing, and capped to a lower maximum fareband
anywayz, my classes starts at 8am/9am, and some of them ends at 3pm/5pm respectively.
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Originally posted by Y_Shun:
then the point comes in why are tetiary students being charged so much...
maybe instead of charging adult fare, there can be a tetiary fare.
maybe starting at 50/60cents then slowly increasing, and capped to a lower maximum fareband
anywayz, my classes starts at 8am/9am, and some of them ends at 3pm/5pm respectively.
Because you can work if you want, hmm. Tertiary considered adult liao..
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i find it unfair 4 poly studs 2 pay more...sch fees so ex liao...transport fees adds on...
unless absurd suggestion is tt poly studs wear uniform...sure lead protest de...its oso absurd 2 get ite n jc studs wear home clothes rite...
same age ppl...yet sum pay more sum pay less...sigh...
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It is good to see different post/opinions by forumers
After I have read them,Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
question is who's going to absorb the extra costs for granting more travel concessions to poly students? definitely not the transport operators as they are doing a business and is already currently absorbing so much concessions to a significant percentage of the commuters. They are also not welfare organisations!Pass on the costs to full-fare paying passengers? then the middle class will suffer; esp those who do not qualify for transport vouchers but earn little salaries which i believe form a large bulk of the population.
or how about impose additional taxes on car owners and these collections be channeled to absorb public transport concessions, keep fares low and affordable, improve our public transport system?
I have to agree his points as there are quite a huge number of poly students and this may cause the bus company to earn less but looking from the report for the year 2007, SBS Transit and SMRT made a profit of $50 million and $135.8 million, respectively after taxes which I think is quite a huge sum of money. If they are willing to do that, they can focus on other areas to earn more $$ like what is SMRT doing, building shops at MRT station but still not compromising on serving bus commuters and service standards.
I think it is impossible for the both companies to be nationalised by the government. Even though this may mean that with under the government control, they may improve greatly on the management of public transport. Fixing on prices, which may adverse effect on what is happening to country like Malaysia now. This may cause to be more dependent on the government. So balanced is needed.Originally posted by service_238:
10 years later I will still see this petition. The people who created this petition do not get the rationale behind the bus fares between JC and Poly students. Its not about the similarities in age. Its about the EDUCATION you are receiving.
I have to agree on what you have mentioned as sometimes people like me who see this kind of petition will go for the support of it without thinking deeper of the consequences like what SBS3688Y has mentioned earlier on. But one need to see that it is difficult to ask Poly students to work part-time during their school term as this may affect on their studies. Unless those who are smart or work in those MLM/land banking investment companies that do not need to go down often but still able to earn big bucks. They may have to depend on their salary from what they have worked during the holiday which may get exhausted soon(what if they need that to settle their own meals and etc?) or they may need to get them from their parents, same as those JC students.
Originally posted by lianamaster:
But because the cohort for polytechnic students is far greater than JC students, I suppose the govt don't find it financially feasible to give everyone student rates the JC students are enjoying. Some people have been joking that if you want to enjoy cheaper rates... wear school uniform then. But that's more than meets the eye. There are some (I don't mean everybody) who can afford blings blings that cost over hundreds of $$$ but complain on the slightest increase (at most a couple of dollars?) on their textbooks, meals and fares.On a general consensus, I feel that the petition can still go on... but... instead of asking to be charged 45cents, (which I think the response from the authorities will not be good), why not ask for a cheaper concession pass instead? Since most poly students feel that they are one class above the JC students in terms of freedom of schooling and the quality of education, they wouldn't want to be charged anything associated to "student" rates anymore.... :)
Perhaps they should have a concession pass that are value for money for Poly students instead. They have to be slightly more expensive than "student" pass because of their higher status than normal school kids but cheaper than university concession pass (maybe around $35 for both bus and train concession?). $35 should be reasonable because youngsters frequently hang out to shopping centres and gatherings during weekends and school holidays; apart from schooling during weekdays. Sum and average all of them up, that works out to an average of not more than $1 per bus trip per day.
I guess if we were to suggest this way, it would be more negotiable.
I agree with what you have mentioned.
No need for the fares to be the same as JC students
Maybe the structure of the fares can be the same as Jurong Industrial Service?
Or to be more lenient to the students, can have the fares same as the Senior Citizens, which charge at flat rate but without the time limit or whatever, so it will mean for the whole day, 24/7 a week.
But I think the former might be more acceptable to the bus company.
Concession wise, maybe the amount can be set at $35 for BCP, $30 for TCP(increase the allowance from 4 trips/day to 6 trips/day) and $60 for HCP
That's all =)