KUB Vs OC500
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Jus nw i took 59S on 75, passengers packed to the brim, & as the bus moves from the bus stop, ppl screamed. 2 ppl (who were standing at the back) fell down but BC dun care lol..
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Originally posted by service_238:
I didnt know a bus' rpm is around the same as that of a car.
Depends on the engine. Some engines can go to as high as 3050rpm. I estimated 2200 cause it sounded like when I took SMB46D on 167. I think the driver was late and I looked at the Tacho, slightly higher than 2000rpm.
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Originally posted by Raraken:
Depends on the engine. Some engines can go to as high as 3050rpm. I estimated 2200 cause it sounded like when I took SMB46D on 167. I think the driver was late and I looked at the Tacho, slightly higher than 2000rpm.
All diesel engines above 5 or 7 litres have less than 2300rpm of engine speed. Only smaller diesel engines like taxi's can go up to 5000rpm.
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Just asking, which bus got more Horsepower? The KUB or OC500? I'm a bus noob here
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Originally posted by NoobBOY:
Just asking, which bus got more Horsepower? The KUB or OC500? I'm a bus noob here
I think it's the OC. OC's HP i think is 299 and KUBs are 230 -
The OC 500 LEs have 299 PS, the K230UBs as suggested by their designation have 230 PS.
The OM 457 hLA engine has a rated speed of 2000rpm so governed speed will be slightly higher in the region of 2100-2200rpm. The M 447 hLAG gas engine is governed to 2340rpm.
The DC9 engine is also governed to a little over 2000rpm, but the electronic engine management will rarely allow the engine to operate to these speeds.
Regards,
Dave -
Originally posted by SMRT BUSES LuvER:
Jus nw i took 59S on 75, passengers packed to the brim, & as the bus moves from the bus stop, ppl screamed. 2 ppl (who were standing at the back) fell down but BC dun care lol..
dont blame me for not caring others but
what for scream? -
Hi all
I prefer the OC500LE (Aka orcs (for those who dig WarCraft or DOTA) , OCs, Oh 500 )
Dun fancy Scania K2304X2UB ( Aka K230UB, KUB, Scarn-niah, Singapore 5th gen Scanaiz...)heres why,
Looks
OC: Like the Capacity front. Just wished the medal-like Merc logo part cna be accentuauted with more glassed area to enhance the Mercedes 3 point star in its plith medal hanging style.. Bascially convert front area of blackness to full Capapcity bodywork style. The SMRTbus lofgo should be moved to bottem left to improve the look of the bus front.
On comparison without the painted V part, the bus does into somewhat look like a Citaro gen 2 front with its cruved edge big front window area and the plith concept of Mercedes for housing their 3 point star.KUB: I dun fancy the front. Not really Omnnicity. some say it is but i dun see the resmebblance. Still smiley front are brighten the day and the KUB do look nice
OC wins because of closeness to other Merc orginal bodywork products.
riding the bus:
OC - kinda jerky with the disc brakes. however Mercedes retarders are world reknowned and a ride on SMB4 of 851 proved the usefulness of a WORKING retarder. The SL manged to start braking for a trafwick light from 500m out. he basically lifted his foot of the pedal and let the bus roll,As usual the gear lock happened but not as jerky as a KUB. then the retarder kicked in. This brought the bus to an almost full stop, the bus was still moving on at 4km/h with SL not doing anything, the NBS of Mercedes then kicked right in, forcing the bus to a gentle stop. I have never had NBS kick in while bus was going 2km/h so it was a real cool effect and treat for me.
OC slowing down assisted technologies - A+
The OC do still have a slight jerk when shifting gears, but not as jerky. Probably a right bodywork of Gemilang to use so bus not too heavy or light for engine power. Not much rattling for some squeaking can be heard but who says Mercs Citaros dun squeak and rattle either...KUB: this one ahh u know lah. like many of u have mntioned.
OC wins
Noise level
OC - tend to be quiet when idle such that u hear air-con whizzing sound only. But the hypoids when at 6th gear are rather irritating. Wished they were hubs instead.
KUB: engine fan loud. Hypoid at 6th loud. Not very civilised for a Scannia product. I would however note that Scania engines are world reknown to be quiet. Does S'Pore KUB live up to the Scania brand?OC wins
accleration-
OC: vs KUB: as dave emntioned 299PS vs 230PS , i daresay mec wins. however a cautious driver drivng an OC will leave the engine humming rather stressfully with funny pitches, which happens on jammed roads. Causes weird gut sensations for me.This means the bus move well at higher rpm ranges which can be hit at higher speeds. the full out chiong OC will illusatrate the lovely engine hum pitch. However Sl's shd be cautiuos as to where and when to full out chiong the OC, much braking is needed on these Singapore congested roads if one dares to chiong.
The Sl will have to know when to brake and brake fast but gently using disc brakes. In some cases the retarder will have not helped much at all. OCs really do cruise at 60km.h and it is hard to bring the bus to a stop in a graceful manner.
the KUb hum pitch hits even ptich at lower speeds but it leaves me frsutrated that the bus is going 60km/h but displaying signs of a 120km./ kind of low engine hum like a K124EB. dun feel the power. 230PS mah...like that lor.. 230PS however it IS highly optimal on Singapore congested roads. so right choice of 230HP. however when one needs the rush, you can't have it.OC: wins because i like my adrenalin supply on such fast rides.l..ike the rush.....hahah.
Engine sound - down to the basic engine
OC - kind of MAN like but mixed with Scania L113CRLsound. sounds very close to a Citaro due to engine specs and i luv Citaros.
KUB - typcial Scania. however the 5th series engine sound too Neoplan ish (a well maintained NeoPlan) For Scania i prefer 4th series engine sounds. meanning i dun dig 5th series scannia engines.So OC wins.
Overall - OC wins
ZYX -
Originally posted by ZYX2005:
Hi all
I prefer the OC500LE (Aka orcs (for those who dig WarCraft or DOTA) , OCs, Oh 500 )
Dun fancy Scania K2304X2UB ( Aka K230UB, KUB, Scarn-niah, Singapore 5th gen Scanaiz...)heres why,
Looks
OC: Like the Capacity front. Just wished the medal-like Merc logo part cna be accentuauted with more glassed area to enhance the Mercedes 3 point star in its plith medal hanging style.. Bascially convert front area of blackness to full Capapcity bodywork style. The SMRTbus lofgo should be moved to bottem left to improve the look of the bus front.
On comparison without the painted V part, the bus does into somewhat look like a Citaro gen 2 front with its cruved edge big front window area and the plith concept of Mercedes for housing their 3 point star.KUB: I dun fancy the front. Not really Omnnicity. some say it is but i dun see the resmebblance. Still smiley front are brighten the day and the KUB do look nice
OC wins because of closeness to other Merc orginal bodywork products.
riding the bus:
OC - kinda jerky with the disc brakes. however Mercedes retarders are world reknowned and a ride on SMB4 of 851 proved the usefulness of a WORKING retarder. The SL manged to start braking for a trafwick light from 500m out. he basically lifted his foot of the pedal and let the bus roll,As usual the gear lock happened but not as jerky as a KUB. then the retarder kicked in. This brought the bus to an almost full stop, the bus was still moving on at 4km/h with SL not doing anything, the NBS of Mercedes then kicked right in, forcing the bus to a gentle stop. I have never had NBS kick in while bus was going 2km/h so it was a real cool effect and treat for me.
OC slowing down assisted technologies - A+
The OC do still have a slight jerk when shifting gears, but not as jerky. Probably a right bodywork of Gemilang to use so bus not too heavy or light for engine power. Not much rattling for some squeaking can be heard but who says Mercs Citaros dun squeak and rattle either...KUB: this one ahh u know lah. like many of u have mntioned.
OC wins
Noise level
OC - tend to be quiet when idle such that u hear air-con whizzing sound only. But the hypoids when at 6th gear are rather irritating. Wished they were hubs instead.
KUB: engine fan loud. Hypoid at 6th loud. Not very civilised for a Scannia product. I would however note that Scania engines are world reknown to be quiet. Does S'Pore KUB live up to the Scania brand?OC wins
accleration-
OC: vs KUB: as dave emntioned 299PS vs 230PS , i daresay mec wins. however a cautious driver drivng an OC will leave the engine humming rather stressfully with funny pitches, which happens on jammed roads. Causes weird gut sensations for me.This means the bus move well at higher rpm ranges which can be hit at higher speeds. the full out chiong OC will illusatrate the lovely engine hum pitch. However Sl's shd be cautiuos as to where and when to full out chiong the OC, much braking is needed on these Singapore congested roads if one dares to chiong.
The Sl will have to know when to brake and brake fast but gently using disc brakes. In some cases the retarder will have not helped much at all. OCs really do cruise at 60km.h and it is hard to bring the bus to a stop in a graceful manner.
the KUb hum pitch hits even ptich at lower speeds but it leaves me frsutrated that the bus is going 60km/h but displaying signs of a 120km./ kind of low engine hum like a K124EB. dun feel the power. 230PS mah...like that lor.. 230PS however it IS highly optimal on Singapore congested roads. so right choice of 230HP. however when one needs the rush, you can't have it.OC: wins because i like my adrenalin supply on such fast rides.l..ike the rush.....hahah.
Engine sound - down to the basic engine
OC - kind of MAN like but mixed with Scania L113CRLsound. sounds very close to a Citaro due to engine specs and i luv Citaros.
KUB - typcial Scania. however the 5th series engine sound too Neoplan ish (a well maintained NeoPlan) For Scania i prefer 4th series engine sounds. meanning i dun dig 5th series scannia engines.So OC wins.
Overall - OC wins
ZYXNice analysis, well done, all i had to say had been said by you except
1. I wish the merc badge could be implemented on the sterring wheel instead of a stick
OT: A KUB BC attemped to race with a OC500LE SL, BC choing a little, SL slow down and make gap big big, den SL start accerlating and overtake the KUB in seconds, wonderful OC500LE speed.
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I took SMB58U on 307 & i felt i was like in a coach bus! Only thing the aircon was super frezzy.. Guess wat? I looked at the driver's aircon control & it was like 17 Celsius. Ill go 'brrr' once evry 1min.. -.- Surprisingly when it hits 60km/h at Teck Whye Lane, i didnt experience any vibration in the bus unlike the KUB.. I really luv the sound of the disc brake when it stops, smth like u hear whenever u get into a car.
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Originally posted by ZYX2005:
Hi all
I prefer the OC500LE (Aka orcs (for those who dig WarCraft or DOTA) , OCs, Oh 500 )
Dun fancy Scania K2304X2UB ( Aka K230UB, KUB, Scarn-niah, Singapore 5th gen Scanaiz...)heres why,
Looks
OC: Like the Capacity front. Just wished the medal-like Merc logo part cna be accentuauted with more glassed area to enhance the Mercedes 3 point star in its plith medal hanging style.. Bascially convert front area of blackness to full Capapcity bodywork style. The SMRTbus lofgo should be moved to bottem left to improve the look of the bus front.
On comparison without the painted V part, the bus does into somewhat look like a Citaro gen 2 front with its cruved edge big front window area and the plith concept of Mercedes for housing their 3 point star.KUB: I dun fancy the front. Not really Omnnicity. some say it is but i dun see the resmebblance. Still smiley front are brighten the day and the KUB do look nice
OC wins because of closeness to other Merc orginal bodywork products.
riding the bus:
OC - kinda jerky with the disc brakes. however Mercedes retarders are world reknowned and a ride on SMB4 of 851 proved the usefulness of a WORKING retarder. The SL manged to start braking for a trafwick light from 500m out. he basically lifted his foot of the pedal and let the bus roll,As usual the gear lock happened but not as jerky as a KUB. then the retarder kicked in. This brought the bus to an almost full stop, the bus was still moving on at 4km/h with SL not doing anything, the NBS of Mercedes then kicked right in, forcing the bus to a gentle stop. I have never had NBS kick in while bus was going 2km/h so it was a real cool effect and treat for me.
OC slowing down assisted technologies - A+
The OC do still have a slight jerk when shifting gears, but not as jerky. Probably a right bodywork of Gemilang to use so bus not too heavy or light for engine power. Not much rattling for some squeaking can be heard but who says Mercs Citaros dun squeak and rattle either...KUB: this one ahh u know lah. like many of u have mntioned.
OC wins
Noise level
OC - tend to be quiet when idle such that u hear air-con whizzing sound only. But the hypoids when at 6th gear are rather irritating. Wished they were hubs instead.
KUB: engine fan loud. Hypoid at 6th loud. Not very civilised for a Scannia product. I would however note that Scania engines are world reknown to be quiet. Does S'Pore KUB live up to the Scania brand?OC wins
accleration-
OC: vs KUB: as dave emntioned 299PS vs 230PS , i daresay mec wins. however a cautious driver drivng an OC will leave the engine humming rather stressfully with funny pitches, which happens on jammed roads. Causes weird gut sensations for me.This means the bus move well at higher rpm ranges which can be hit at higher speeds. the full out chiong OC will illusatrate the lovely engine hum pitch. However Sl's shd be cautiuos as to where and when to full out chiong the OC, much braking is needed on these Singapore congested roads if one dares to chiong.
The Sl will have to know when to brake and brake fast but gently using disc brakes. In some cases the retarder will have not helped much at all. OCs really do cruise at 60km.h and it is hard to bring the bus to a stop in a graceful manner.
the KUb hum pitch hits even ptich at lower speeds but it leaves me frsutrated that the bus is going 60km/h but displaying signs of a 120km./ kind of low engine hum like a K124EB. dun feel the power. 230PS mah...like that lor.. 230PS however it IS highly optimal on Singapore congested roads. so right choice of 230HP. however when one needs the rush, you can't have it.OC: wins because i like my adrenalin supply on such fast rides.l..ike the rush.....hahah.
Engine sound - down to the basic engine
OC - kind of MAN like but mixed with Scania L113CRLsound. sounds very close to a Citaro due to engine specs and i luv Citaros.
KUB - typcial Scania. however the 5th series engine sound too Neoplan ish (a well maintained NeoPlan) For Scania i prefer 4th series engine sounds. meanning i dun dig 5th series scannia engines.So OC wins.
Overall - OC wins
ZYXnot bad not bad...the review owns! OC pwnage!
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Speaking of the braking, the kub's brake really CMI. I took 8034 on 174 last week. The bus slowed down until abt 5km/h two car lengths from the traffic light. The BC was trying to bring the bus to a stop gently cos I can feel the slight braking. However, the bus continued rolling on until the BC couldnt take it and slammed on the brakes. There was a big jerk - and the bus stopped barely before the traffic light.
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Across the board, you should expect stronger jerks from the ZF6 buses at:
Lock-up. (duh)
Transition from 5th to 4th.
Strangely all these manifest strongest in the K230s. Could be due to how much the engine resists sudden changes in the load transmitted to the engine.
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Originally posted by ZYX2005:
Hi all
I prefer the OC500LE (Aka orcs (for those who dig WarCraft or DOTA) , OCs, Oh 500 )
Dun fancy Scania K2304X2UB ( Aka K230UB, KUB, Scarn-niah, Singapore 5th gen Scanaiz...)heres why,
Looks
OC: Like the Capacity front. Just wished the medal-like Merc logo part cna be accentuauted with more glassed area to enhance the Mercedes 3 point star in its plith medal hanging style.. Bascially convert front area of blackness to full Capapcity bodywork style. The SMRTbus lofgo should be moved to bottem left to improve the look of the bus front.
On comparison without the painted V part, the bus does into somewhat look like a Citaro gen 2 front with its cruved edge big front window area and the plith concept of Mercedes for housing their 3 point star.KUB: I dun fancy the front. Not really Omnnicity. some say it is but i dun see the resmebblance. Still smiley front are brighten the day and the KUB do look nice
OC wins because of closeness to other Merc orginal bodywork products.
Ya you are right about the converting the front area of blackness below the windscreen to full Capapcity bodywork style. It'll look pretty mean /cool with more blacks in the front (tribute to the Habits's front). Later can rival 8030L XD
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Frogot one thing..
the Scania electronic leveling suspension system seems to kick in too late. It's like when you baord the bus already, tapped your brand new CEPAS card and start moving then the bus suddenly goes up and down...
The OC however seldom does that. Note the OC leveling can go in all directions, hence the jellylike sensation. The KUB somehow only up and down...ZYX
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Originally posted by lifelikedrama:
I think it's the OC. OC's HP i think is 299 and KUBs are 230
Wow... OC have 39HP more then the KUB.... That's impressive i would say. But strangely why the OC have 299HP and not make it 300HP instead? -
Originally posted by NoobBOY:
Wow... OC have 39HP more then the KUB.... That's impressive i would say. But strangely why the OC have 299HP and not make it 300HP instead?did ur maths fail? 299PS - 230PS = 39PS?!
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Originally posted by nenepokey:
did ur maths fail? 299PS - 230PS = 39PS?!
See his name liao. NoobBOY (JK JK).
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Originally posted by ZYX2005:
Frogot one thing..
the Scania electronic leveling suspension system seems to kick in too late. It's like when you baord the bus already, tapped your brand new CEPAS card and start moving then the bus suddenly goes up and down...
The OC however seldom does that. Note the OC leveling can go in all directions, hence the jellylike sensation. The KUB somehow only up and down...ZYX
So the risers can go up, down as well as the tilt? Cannot Kneel meh?
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Originally posted by NoobBOY:
Wow... OC have 39HP more then the KUB.... That's impressive i would say. But strangely why the OC have 299HP and not make it 300HP instead?The OC 500 LEs actually have 69 PS more than the K230UB (299 - 230).
Also, Mercedes-Benz engines are calibrated to even kilowatt figures. The 12-litre OM 457 hLA is available in 185 kW (252 PS), 220 kW (299 PS), 260 kW (354 PS) and 300 kW (408 PS).
Regards,
Dave -
Originally posted by ZYX2005:
riding the bus:
OC - kinda jerky with the disc brakes. however Mercedes retarders are world reknowned and a ride on SMB4 of 851 proved the usefulness of a WORKING retarder. The SL manged to start braking for a trafwick light from 500m out. he basically lifted his foot of the pedal and let the bus roll,I believe the retarders are working on all the OC500s...it's just if the SL knows how to use it properly. Try the morning shift 4A and the afternoon shift 4A to see a big difference (: (just to show that it isn't the bus, but the user of the bus).
The afternoon shift SL for 4A is really good at the retarder. So far most of the rides on OCs I have taken were relatively jerky when the SL brakes because he isn't using the retarder properly.
Those who want to experience a smooth ride on an OC should go try 4A on 851...as for timings
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Originally posted by Raraken:
pls check ur PM
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Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
The OC 500 LEs actually have 69 PS more than the K230UB (299 - 230).
Also, Mercedes-Benz engines are calibrated to even kilowatt figures. The 12-litre OM 457 hLA is available in 185 kW (252 PS), 220 kW (299 PS), 260 kW (354 PS) and 300 kW (408 PS).
Regards,
DaveTo add on, there might be confusion within non-technical oriented bus fans that the commonly used metric horsepower = PS. In fact one PS is equal to 0.98 (to be exact 0.98632) horsepower. So in fact to say, a OM457hLA with a 220kW rating engine would translate to 299 horsepower (220000/735) and then on to 303PS (299/0.98). A Scania DC9 engine used on the K230UB would be of 230 horsepower and 233PS. These are exact terms which few people would go to the extent of stating that they are different, so I have came across the fact that PS = horsepower, and this includes the Mercedes Benz German site...
PS stands for Pferdestärke in German, which actually means horsepower in their own sense! However stating that a German horsepower and Metric (British) horsepower is different, I wonder if they eat the different types of grass (while on different side of the English Channel)! This of course would not be the case.
To share more...
There had been much confusion for the term 'horsepower' through the years. In the past when I have just touched technical, I always thought that a horsepower rating of an engine would mean a horse equivalent of power under the boot! Until later in school that I learnt a Singaporean would likely rate his horse (those at Kranji Race Course?) differently from a Russian, or an American, maybe in some cases between a pony and a strong race horse, or more accurately that the work that they can do is different!
Hence nowadays, watt have became the standard unit in measuring vehicle performance, as so far that i know, it standardise the term of a horsepower which would differ from a metric one to a imperial one to maybe a Singaporean one.
The unit of PS had been deemed obsolete by the EEC in 1992, but it can still be encountered frequently, especially in Japanese sources where I always have to do a slight conversion from PS to the metric horsepower. Slight difference only I guess.
When rating an engine, there is also a difference of rated horsepower from the engine and actual output. Rated, and also known as brake horsepower (bhp), is what can be achieved in the labs, while actual conditions would vary. Just like the 'ideal' condition in a physics or chemistry lab experiment.
Thanks for the insight Dave, we sure learn lots more about engines! :D
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On a different note, have any Singaporeans noticed the exhaust brakes fitted to the OM 457 hLA? When slowing down, you'll hear the familiar "hiss" of the exhaust brake disengaging and then reengaging in a drowned rumble again. While not as noticeable as the exhaust brake on, for example, a Volvo DH12 engine, it is still noticeable.
Regards,
Dave -
Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
On a different note, have any Singaporeans noticed the exhaust brakes fitted to the OM 457 hLA? When slowing down, you'll hear the familiar "hiss" of the exhaust brake disengaging and then reengaging in a drowned rumble again. While not as noticeable as the exhaust brake on, for example, a Volvo DH12 engine, it is still noticeable.
Regards,
Dave
Took 2 OC500 rides this week and realised that both buses (SMB 30Z & SMB 9L respectively) have a sharp whirring sound from the engine whenever the bus is in motion, which previously could not be heard. As for the former, it is really loud and sharp and can even be heard from the outside while for the latter it is not as noticeable but I definitely could make out the same whirring sound from the engine while bus is in motion.Any explanations for that?
On another note, SBS 8310D (K230) zoomed past me the other day and the engine sounded as if it was a tractor motor! There was a loud grong-grong sound from the engine and I nearly thought the engine had overheated or something. And similarly, cannot be heard previously (I took the same bus twice before which did not have this problem then). Is it due to some parts in the engine malfunctioning / going loose which caused this problem?