Pros & cons of having AM peak x-over service
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
There’s usually not enough buses on most services during PM peak cos it coincides with mealbreak time. It’s not a case of which service needs to be supplemented then (more helpful to add perm S shift buses to the service e.g. 285) such that they can cope on their own before asking a service to attempt to help another service.
So, high chances of having late departure from int during PEAK time? -
And please don't have the thinking like crossovers can be applied to every service-pairs imaginable and we should have them everywhere just for the sake of novelty.
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Originally posted by ZYX2005:
can i play? lol
1. Where do 243 199 operate from? Which part of Singapore is this?
>>deep west Boon lay. Jurong West N8 9 and 7 vs NTU/NIE.
2. With reference to previous question, do you think people who work in other parts of Singapore had to get up earlier in order to reach office on time? If no, why?
>> yes. jams still occur. if i stay in BPJ and work in JRE i will still wake up earlier due to jam at Jurong Ttown hall rd or BBt Pnajang rd.
3. Where does 199 serve? Does it have a niche market to cater to? If no, explain.
>> it has niche market. NTU/NNIE student repporting to school.
4. With reference to Q3, do you think putting more buses on it before 0800hrs do any good to the service? Why?>> Will be good so as to cater to the crowd.
5. Do you think we should simply eliminate crossover services and just plant them as split shifts that stay on their own service? Explain.>> Crossovers are Euroepan style. i like.
>> You cna plant split shift on their own service yes but if the demand loads on 243 after 8am means it no need the bbus to work on 243 already why not bring the bus over to 199 to cater the THE SHIFT IN DEMAND CROWD.?- manny crossovers are designed to move with the crowd demand. For example from town to JRE crowds are on services like 105. Crowds come home oso cna take MRT. . Say, after work i take MRT to JRE from raffles Place. ists train at 545pm. . i alight say around 630pm. My demand now shift to my feeder service like 334. Thats where the 105/334 gassy crossover comes in to meet my shift in demand. hence i coin the term - demand moveing crossover. Crossovers that move in tandem with crowd demands.
ZYX
Q1: ok la somewhere there la.. basically this qns is an introductory question to the other 4 questions. There's no way you can get it wrong unless you dont know the route.
Q2: Well to put it in a broader perspective, if the fella works in the east he has to take the 0545 bus from his place to Boon Lay then take train to Bedok Tanah Merah etc. Starting work at 8am at a workplace rather far from Boon Lay would warrant a wake up time of latest 0545hrs.
Q3: Yes it has a niche market
Q4: What crowd do you have who wishes to reach NIE/NTU before 0730hrs? The frequency is 9-10min before 0720hrs, 5-7min after that. That's when the xover comes in. A person will gain from better frequency if they wanna reach school at 8am.
Q5: You explained enough think I got nothing much to add on.Originally posted by SBS9364S:
Okay, I will reply ur question:1. 243- BNL to JW N7 (wit both plates) 199- BNL to NTU. West side (Near Tuas)
2. Yes. If their work starts at around 8am, they should wake up early in order not to be late sue to traffic jam.
3. NIE, part of NTU (Most of NTU are supplied by old 199 routes- currently 179). Not really. It is because 199 covers minority of NTU route.
4. Yes. People who need to go work no need to wait longer for a bus.
5. No. Currently, there are lacking of drivers. So, SBST wants some of BC 2 familarise with 2 routes. 1 pro
Btw, thanks 4 ur concern.
Q1: I wouldn't say its near Tuas cos it doesnt cater to people going to Tuas by any case.
Q2: yes you get the hang of it. See my comment above for ZYX's answers.
Q3: The fact is yes 199 covers a small portion of where 179 covers but the niche market isnt NTU students. NTU students have an alternative near Canteen 1 to take them to Boon Lay, but with super good freq of 179/179A, you think they would take 199?
Q4: You prefer buses running half empty? Freq for 199 is 9-10min before 0720hrs from Boon Lay and 5-7min thereafter. I believe its sufficient to cater to the crowds as people who report to NIE at 8am will come in after 0720hrs at Boon Lay. If they're early then early lor.. Besides they come from everywhere in Singapore how early you want them to reach? 6.30am?
Q5: Its always an advantage for BCs to know as many routes as possible. This creates flexibility for the starter to assign the BC to a route if that route has not enough BCs for the morning.You can answer these questions rather satisfactorily. I believe your problem is that you dont realise the changes in demand pattern for the various services, in particularly the xover hubs in Singapore. Boon Lay and Clementi has all along been a xover hub for many years due to its proximity to industrial, residential areas and tertiary institutions.
Originally posted by SBS9364S:
These 2 243/ 198 buses replace 2 KUB perms (SBS8043Y & SBS8044A) which r doing 198/272 x-over. Coz 198 BCs oso know how to drive 272 route.let me give you some timing details. This would be sufficient to show you that the 243/198 xovers are additions and not replacements. Anyway all along 198 buses has been doing 272 for years. Main reason is the meal break for 272 drivers. Since the meal break for 272 drivers is after AM Peak, its impossible that the 243 buses is operating on 198 without the 198/272 buses.
As said on this forum a few times, the 2 243 buses do 198 downroute from Jurong Polyclinic to Bt Merah at 0801 and 0809hrs. They reach Bt Merah approx 1hour later.
During this time, one 198/272 bus is approching Boon Lay before departing there at 0826hrs to Bt Merah, before doing 272 thereafter. The other xover bus departs Bt merah at 0745hrs, arriving at Boon Lay 0902hrs. This bus serves 272 during PM Peak. -
depends on the current road situation. if the bus is caught in a traffic jam'happy new year' to you
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Originally posted by SBS9364S:
So, high chances of having late departure from int during PEAK time?
What late depatures...?
Mealbreaks are scheduled. Just that the headway lengthens more after official PM peak. -
Originally posted by ^tamago^:
What late depatures...?
Mealbreaks are scheduled. Just that the headway lengthens more after official PM peak.
Btw, I had experienced once b4.Happened ard 2 yrs ago when I was still preparing 4 GCE 'O' Level.
Though was not happen during PEAK time, but ard tat (3.45pm to 3.50pm)
I was waiting svc 198 at BNL Int:
SBS7363H was scheduled to cater ppl at ard 3.40pm, but later den 3.43 to 3.45pm lik tat
So, no doubt many ppl queue 4 it.
When SBS7363H prepared 2 cater the queued passengers, I saw SBS7375Z stomped past it & went to cater ppl at 2nd stop.
Even if mealbreaks r scheduled, late departures r inevitable. Depend on his finish of the mealbreaks. If his mealbreak ends late, the bus will depart late.
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Originally posted by service_238:
Q1: ok la somewhere there la.. basically this qns is an introductory question to the other 4 questions. There's no way you can get it wrong unless you dont know the route.
Q2: Well to put it in a broader perspective, if the fella works in the east he has to take the 0545 bus from his place to Boon Lay then take train to Bedok Tanah Merah etc. Starting work at 8am at a workplace rather far from Boon Lay would warrant a wake up time of latest 0545hrs.
Q3: Yes it has a niche market
Q4: What crowd do you have who wishes to reach NIE/NTU before 0730hrs? The frequency is 9-10min before 0720hrs, 5-7min after that. That's when the xover comes in. A person will gain from better frequency if they wanna reach school at 8am.
Q5: You explained enough think I got nothing much to add on.Q1: I wouldn't say its near Tuas cos it doesnt cater to people going to Tuas by any case.
Q2: yes you get the hang of it. See my comment above for ZYX's answers.
Q3: The fact is yes 199 covers a small portion of where 179 covers but the niche market isnt NTU students. NTU students have an alternative near Canteen 1 to take them to Boon Lay, but with super good freq of 179/179A, you think they would take 199?
Q4: You prefer buses running half empty? Freq for 199 is 9-10min before 0720hrs from Boon Lay and 5-7min thereafter. I believe its sufficient to cater to the crowds as people who report to NIE at 8am will come in after 0720hrs at Boon Lay. If they're early then early lor.. Besides they come from everywhere in Singapore how early you want them to reach? 6.30am?
Q5: Its always an advantage for BCs to know as many routes as possible. This creates flexibility for the starter to assign the BC to a route if that route has not enough BCs for the morning.You can answer these questions rather satisfactorily. I believe your problem is that you dont realise the changes in demand pattern for the various services, in particularly the xover hubs in Singapore. Boon Lay and Clementi has all along been a xover hub for many years due to its proximity to industrial, residential areas and tertiary institutions.
let me give you some timing details. This would be sufficient to show you that the 243/198 xovers are additions and not replacements. Anyway all along 198 buses has been doing 272 for years. Main reason is the meal break for 272 drivers. Since the meal break for 272 drivers is after AM Peak, its impossible that the 243 buses is operating on 198 without the 198/272 buses.
As said on this forum a few times, the 2 243 buses do 198 downroute from Jurong Polyclinic to Bt Merah at 0801 and 0809hrs. They reach Bt Merah approx 1hour later.
During this time, one 198/272 bus is approching Boon Lay before departing there at 0826hrs to Bt Merah, before doing 272 thereafter. The other xover bus departs Bt merah at 0745hrs, arriving at Boon Lay 0902hrs. This bus serves 272 during PM Peak.Okay, I understand liao.
198/ 272 bus replace one of perm buses which is having a mealbreak.
One pro-example is:
SMRT service 882.
Onli 1 bus run-by.
However, x-over needs 2 replace TIB784D (either WL or AM side oso can 167, 859, 980) so as TIB784D perm driver has enough time to finish his mealbreak.
To conclude, there's no fleet addition for 882. By the time, TIB784D BC finishes his mealbreak, the x-over bus do back on its own service.
Sorry 2 bother ur time.
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Originally posted by SBS9364S:
Btw, I had experienced once b4.Happened ard 2 yrs ago when I was still preparing 4 GCE 'O' Level.
Though was not happen during PEAK time, but ard tat (3.45pm to 3.50pm)
I was waiting svc 198 at BNL Int:
SBS7363H was scheduled to cater ppl at ard 3.40pm, but later den 3.43 to 3.45pm lik tat
So, no doubt many ppl queue 4 it.
When SBS7363H prepared 2 cater the queued passengers, I saw SBS7375Z stomped past it & went to cater ppl at 2nd stop.
Even if mealbreaks r scheduled, late departures r inevitable. Depend on his finish of the mealbreaks. If his mealbreak ends late, the bus will depart late.
/facepalm. the likelihood of a mealbreak going on at 3.40pm is the lowest.
and please, crossovers won't help because they are also SCHEDULED. we might as well have standby drivers with standby buses at every interchange.
It is likely the first bus is late for other reasons which depends on the situation on the ground, and is no basis for sending another bus in to achieve 3-bus bunching. -
If only SBST has 5,000 buses, fares are doubled and we get more drivers from China. I think every commuter will be very happy.
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Originally posted by SBS9364S:
These 2 243/ 198 buses replace 2 KUB perms (SBS8043Y & SBS8044A) which r doing 198/272 & 198/ 273 x-overs respectively. Coz 198 BCs oso know how to drive 272 & 273 routes.
No. Who told you that? And which 198 bus you saw on 273?
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Based on the example SBS9364S gave, it's quite obvious he doesn't know how the entire system works.
Departure times as stated on the TV monitor / timesheets are the timings that the BC taps his card. And so after he taps his card he walks to his bus, starts the engine, turn on the air-con bla bla bla... by the time he reverses out of his parking lot and makes one big round to the boarding berth 3 minutes would have passed.
So it's not a matter of the bus departing late. And even that, would waiting 3 more minutes kill you?
And to add on from what ^tamago^ said, the headway lengthens during PM mealbreak period but it doesn't mean that the bus always departs late. Because mealbreaks have to be at least 20 minutes as compared to normal breaks, doesn't it make sense to lengthen the headway so that the drivers can have their mealbreak?
It all depends on feasibility. Not everything can be crossed here and there.
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Originally posted by SBS9364S:
How about PM peak?The workers oso need 165/ 285 buses to go back Clementi.
However, 4 BB 165 buses will run during the peak. 165'll rely on HG side.
Relatively the same. -
Originally posted by ^tamago^:
No. Who told you that? And which 198 bus you saw on 273?
Refer 2 veri upper post. I edited alr liao. Sorry 4 my error.To Oceane:
I'll try 2 understand what u have explained.
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Originally posted by Oceane:
So it's not a matter of the bus departing late. And even that, would waiting 3 more minutes kill you?
He play too much Bus Driver games le - 1 minute late already get penalised
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Originally posted by Oceane:
And to add on from what ^tamago^ said, the headway lengthens during PM mealbreak period but it doesn't mean that the bus always departs late. Because mealbreaks have to be at least 20 minutes as compared to normal breaks, doesn't it make sense to lengthen the headway so that the drivers can have their mealbreak?
the Labour Law in Singapore states that the driver must have at least 20min meal break. If the driver arrives late from his previous trip and has exactly a scheduled 20min meal break, he will only depart exactly after 20min depending on the timekeeper. As to how much it deviates from the original schedule would have to see how liao. -
we try to give 22 minutes. :lol: certain interchanges and terminals have minimum 25 minutes.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
we try to give 22 minutes.
certain interchanges and terminals have minimum 25 minutes.
give 30min if possible. NWFB and CityBus ones lasts 30min. KMB is 1 hour. -
Originally posted by service_238:
give 30min if possible. NWFB and CityBus ones lasts 30min. KMB is 1 hour.KMB really pamper the drivers well
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deleted
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
And please don’t have the thinking like crossovers can be applied to every service-pairs imaginable and we should have them everywhere just for the sake of novelty.
6/192
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Originally posted by jayh272416:
6/192
lol
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Originally posted by jayh272416:
6/192
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Originally posted by sbs8104h:
maybe if they can intro 88/143 or 155/143 X-Over in the morning or afternoon. it may help
I think you are another one who dont understand how this whole thing works. -
Originally posted by service_238:
I think you are another one who dont understand how this whole thing works.sry... i know how it works. i pharase it wrongly
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sbs8104h bro. basically if you want to state some crossover ideas u have to state it with reasons.
anyhow your 88/143 crossover seems weird. firstly 88 has high demands so taking a bus out at any time will resuult in demand sufferiing on svc.. no doubt 143 has high demands in the need for added bus. furthermore 143 indeed suffers from jammy on route so much so poor 143 always go bleh.
in this case u shd need to know when the biggy crowds start to come on 143 and where and when svc 88 has no more biggy crowds. Both of which i have no idea actually. lol...
frankly i dun see how the crowds on 88 would decrease after a certaian time say late night 730pm it does decrease then by the time your bus jump to 143, has it catered to an increase influx of demand on 143 say 814pm at orchard > JEI? i dun think that even happens.
perhaps a more wiser chosen svc at TPY would be good.
but u do have a pradox here. The crowds on feeders will grow after530pm. 143 is one of those long route service with run time more than 1 hr 45 mins . if u crossover to 143, u drop a bbus out for over 2 and a half hours (if u want that bus back on orginal svc) So u cant choose a feeder out. (this idea one is based on the 262/128 crossover)
then how about any of the trunks in TPY? does the demand shift down after a certain trip from TPY after a certain time? after considering this can u decide if that bus can go do 143 for 2 and a half hours or over. let's say u do find svc X that has this interesting chractersitic. and our dear 143 says it want bus after time X:XXfactor in the fact the BC has to be on 143 for more than 3 hours including back to depot time if S-shift. can u add 3 hours to a shift on that particualr BC who drive TPY svc X ? As mentioned BC do work certain limited hours. i feel 3 hours on a second svc for BC seem a lot to add to BC overall workload.
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ah yah u guys brought up the so called meal-break of svc crossover.ZYX