LTA's New Bus Stop Poles (Part 2)
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What is the point of upgrading bus shelters or installing bus stop poles when bus routes can be pulled at a moment's notice? Sometimes it does seem like a waste of resources, doesn't it?
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Just out of curiosity, based on all your past experiences, whenever you realised that you were overcharged or your realised that the fare-stages were not correctly synchronised to the bus stop, what did you guys do? Talk to the driver immediately or wait till X days later then head to the Transitlink office to report the overcharging?
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New poles invading Tampines Ave 7 & 2 Today
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Originally posted by iveco:
What is the point of upgrading bus shelters or installing bus stop poles when bus routes can be pulled at a moment's notice? Sometimes it does seem like a waste of resources, doesn't it?
the service numbers can easily be removed from the bus stop poles. it's not that tough a job.
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Originally posted by supremebull:
Just out of curiosity, based on all your past experiences, whenever you realised that you were overcharged or your realised that the fare-stages were not correctly synchronised to the bus stop, what did you guys do? Talk to the driver immediately or wait till X days later then head to the Transitlink office to report the overcharging?
got overcharged once ($0.91 deducted compared to actual fare $0.69), but decided to leave it as it is.. didn't bother doing anything.
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Originally posted by supremebull:
Just out of curiosity, based on all your past experiences, whenever you realised that you were overcharged or your realised that the fare-stages were not correctly synchronised to the bus stop, what did you guys do? Talk to the driver immediately or wait till X days later then head to the Transitlink office to report the overcharging?
If fare stages are not right, I let the bus driver know. I have experienced this on a regular basis. Most of the time, the fare stage is just out by 0.5 stage. There was one time it was out by 3.5 stages, easily adding 42 cents to my fare if I had not caught it. (67 cents vs 109 cents back in early 2008)
If I am inadvertantly overcharged because I did not check the fare stages prior to tapping, then I do an online claim and get the refund deposited into my bank account and thus negating the need to go down to the Transitlink Office.
Getting the correct fare the 1st time round is preferable to making a claim, and that is why I still like having the fare stages at the bus stop. The fare tables can help me gauge my alighting fare stage if I know my boarding fare stage.
IE. If I know boarding fare stage is N and according to the fare tables my fare is 69 cents, then my alighting fare stage should be within N to N+4 stages. If not, I know the Fare Consoles are not synchronised correctly.
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Yusry, think u better let the bus companies know since u kena overcharged on a regular basis.
Just curious, will there be a case(s) of the fare stage wrongly displayed on the old bus pole? Or even undercharging?
I dun deny the benefits of the fare stage number being on the pole. But are there really so many pple who use this to check?
I read that LTA is going to do away with the current fare stage model and charge for the total distance travelled regardless of no. of transfers made. In such a situation, dunno if fare stage will still be relevant in the future.
Saw the new pole in Orchard Rd,outside Heeren and outside Park Mall bus stop. Looks ok lah, still quite colourful.
Hope they won't replace the famous x'mas tree bus pole along bras brasah rd outside the rendezous hotel, super iconic man.
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Originally posted by pumpkin on bus:
Yusry, think u better let the bus companies know since u kena overcharged on a regular basis.
Just curious, will there be a case(s) of the fare stage wrongly displayed on the old bus pole? Or even undercharging?
I dun deny the benefits of the fare stage number being on the pole. But are there really so many pple who use this to check?
I read that LTA is going to do away with the current fare stage model and charge for the total distance travelled regardless of no. of transfers made. In such a situation, dunno if fare stage will still be relevant in the future.
Saw the new pole in Orchard Rd,outside Heeren and outside Park Mall bus stop. Looks ok lah, still quite colourful.
Hope they won't replace the famous x'mas tree bus pole along bras brasah rd outside the rendezous hotel, super iconic man.
I think you have misunderstood. Never did I mention that I am regularly being overcharged. I just said that the displayed fare stages are out of sync on a regular basis. Regular out-of-sync stages are normal as they are decided based on GPS. GPS is not very accurate in areas with tall buildings/structurs/trees and during very bad weather due to bouncing signals. High-sensitivity GPS receivers help alleviate this, but never completely.
Even if LTA is going to do through fares, there is still a need for some sort of distance measurement and using fare stage is one of them. Other measures may include fare sections or zones. Thus there is a need to display the current fare stage, section or zone.
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saw one whole truck with 10 plus new pole plus 20 plus old poles on tampines......soon the new poles will be spammed all island
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Originally posted by TownLink 291:
New poles invading Tampines Ave 7 & 2 Today
and 6... well i know is kinda lame -
Originally posted by Yusry:
Will you younglings spare a thought for those who have to pay full-fare?
I think once your CPs expire and you start wondering how come you were charged 91 cents instead of 69 cents will you appreciate the need for fare stage information to be displayed at the pole signs or route details board.
Until the day the Fare Consoles display bus stop code, will then I stop complaining about the lack of fare stages being displayed at the bus stop. Fare stage information may have lost its usefulness as a way to calculate fares, but it currently remains the only way to ensure that the Fare Consoles are correctly synchronised to the current bus stop.
For those who plan our routes in advance, fare stages are also useful in stretching your fare. Using transfer points, you can travel 8 stages for 88 cents instead of 7 stages for 91 cents. Or the fact that some bus routes travel further on 4 stages compared to others. For example routes 12 and 33 where 33 goes further than route 12. Or getting to Vivo City from Haig Road for 107 cents instead of 131 cents on the direct route.
For me, I still prefer to rely on this to determine if I can maxmise my fare stage:
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awaiting simei to have the new poles..
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
For me, I still prefer to rely on this to determine if I can maxmise my fare stage:
I concur. Certainly makes much more sense than looking at the fare stage code at the side. Besides, you'd tap your card first when alighting before you're able to check the fare stage on the bus stop plate - where's the chance to inform the driver that the system isn't updated? That is...unless you always alight from the front...and in that case, the front is meant for boarding.
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Originally posted by n4l:
I concur. Certainly makes much more sense than looking at the fare stage code at the side. Besides, you'd tap your card first when alighting before you're able to check the fare stage on the bus stop plate - where's the chance to inform the driver that the system isn't updated? That is...unless you always alight from the front...and in that case, the front is meant for boarding.
What is it with people who talk or type before they think?
Once I know my fare AND my boarding fare stage, I already know what range my alighting fare stage will be in.
In other words, if your boarding fare stage is N (say 5.5), and your fare is 69 cents, you would expect your alighting fare stage to be in the range of N and N+4 (say 5.5 to 9.5).
In which case, you do not need to check the bus stop plate to verify your alighting farestage.
However, you still need to know your boarding farestage (which CANNOT be found in the new bus stop poles) as well as your fare (which CAN be found in the fare tables).
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
For me, I still prefer to rely on this to determine if I can maxmise my fare stage:
"Hey! According to the fare tables, if I take route 33, I can get to Clarke Quay with 69 cents compared to taking 12. Yay!"
So A boards route 33 and happily taps his card without checking his boarding fare stage.
Bus reaches Clarke Quay and A taps his card to alight.
"Hey, WTF? Why did I get charged 91 cents?"
Poor A getting charged 91 cents because his did not check his boarding farestage which was showing 10 instead of 10.5 and ends up paying the same fare had he taken route 12.
Moral of the story: make sure you check your boarding farestage is correct before you tap your card. Alighting fare stage RANGE (in this case has to be within 10.5 and 14.5 inclusive) can be calculated if you know your fare and boarding fare stage.
If you don't check, you end up spending time going to the Transitlink Office or making the claim online to get back your hard-earned 22 cents.
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Originally posted by SBS n SMRT:
saw one whole truck with 10 plus new pole plus 20 plus old poles on tampines......soon the new poles will be spammed all island
Think Tampines totally done up already. But must confirm again later.
Suspect 291 route totally done up. T291 say East Loop done liao, my side West Loop also done
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Originally posted by Yusry:
What is it with people who talk or type before they think?
Once I know my fare AND my boarding fare stage, I already know what range my alighting fare stage will be in.
In other words, if your boarding fare stage is N (say 5.5), and your fare is 69 cents, you would expect your alighting fare stage to be in the range of N and N+4 (say 5.5 to 9.5).
In which case, you do not need to check the bus stop plate to verify your alighting farestage.
However, you still need to know your boarding farestage (which CANNOT be found in the new bus stop poles) as well as your fare (which CAN be found in the fare tables).
Certainly it's just differing POVs towards the Fare Stage usage. Of course your way has the added advantage that you can ask the driver to change to the correct fare stage upon boarding and be sure that your cost will be correct when you alight (that is if the fare stage doesn't go wrong again).
I'll have not thought about that as it never occurred to me as I'm sure with the some of us too, definitely not on the part that we weren't thinking.
I do use the route details board to check my fares. Problems usually occur when the bus stop is at the edge of a fare band. Yes, and its a hassle having to claim that 20c or so since there's no way I'm going to be able to correct the driver after I've found out. Your way has a huge advantage in that sense.
Like I said, it's just differing POVs towards how we count our fares. None of them is wrong. Though obviously now that one is gone, we just have to find another.
Just fyi, you're not the only person here that pays non-concessionary fares and is commenting on this fare stage thing. For the record: I'm paying adult fares just like you too and not on concession.
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Originally posted by n4l:
Certainly it's just differing POVs towards the Fare Stage usage.
I check the fare stage board before I board the bus to see where I'm supposed to alight and how much the fare is. I don't, and certainly most people don't remember fare stages. It's far easier to remember the cost directly.
In the case that my bus stop is the last stop before the fare band changes, I'd take extra care to note the cost. However if its in the middle, there usually isn't any problem.
Like I said, it's just differeing POVs towards how we count our fares. None of them is wrong. Though obviously now that one is gone, we just have to find another.
Well, so we apparently have the same idea of checking the fare stage BEFORE we board the bus.
But earlier, you were insinuating the the lack of fare stages does not matter because we can't check it before we alight the bus. And that was what got me riled up.
Originally posted by n4l:Mind you and your stuck up attitude. I never did say once you were wrong in counting fare stages and before you flame others, look at yourself, you aren't thinking too!
I'm sure if you thought about the inflammatory word younglings on the members here and your excess use of the red bold colour here. Who's trying to show his attitude and pick a fight? I don't deny that you may be older than us and may be of a higher knowledge than us, but it certainly doesn't entitle you to use inflammatory words here on the members nor throw your weight around.
Just fyi, you're not the only person here that pays non-concessionary fares and is commenting on this fare stage thing. For the record: I'm paying adult fares just like you too and not on concession.
Well, maybe you are not a youngling and you may assume that I am not thinking myself, but apparently I am not putting myself in conflicting situations.
At one point you say it not having the farestage is not a problem because you can't check when you alight. And yet in your reply to my post, I seem to understand that you still use farestage information in situations where your stop is at a borderline fare.
So in short, I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
All along this thread I have been saying: I need to know both my fare and farestage at the time of boarding.
And short of not knowing my boarding farestage, I would need to carry my TransitLink Guide or Service Guides along or some other record.
Having the fare stages displayed at the bus stop certainly makes this easier. Some of us prefer to make sure things are right the first time round to reduce the hassles which is no different to checking your purchase prices as the cashier scans them or just after the purchase rather than waiting to do it at home.
Anyway, I'm going to end my rant here. Feel free to post your replies so that the rest of us will be able to understand your POV.
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Yusry, I'm referring to the route details board where you just look at the colour coded bands instead of having to count. Hence negating the need to remember the actual numbers itself. I hardly do look at the ones at the corner of the bus stop plates.
The first post was to say that you can't check that little number by the side when you alight. Hence there isn't this need for that number anyway - but after your explanation on how you use it, appears that there's some good use for it.
Yes, maybe that's a better word to describe it...fare stages here and there, it's pretty confusing. I wasn't pretty clear too, sorry on that part.
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Originally posted by n4l:
Yusry, I'm referring to the route details board where you just look at the colour coded bands instead of having to count. Hence negating the need to remember the actual numbers itself. I hardly do look at the ones at the corner of the bus stop plates.
Yes, maybe that's a better word to describe it...fare stages here and there, it's pretty confusing.
Okay, so I'll take a pass over my earlier promise and add another post on this.
Thank you for that clarification.
Yes, the colour coded fare bands are useful, but I guess for me, I just prefer using raw data rather than something that has been processed for the public.
So in addition to the colour coded bands which indirectly tell me how far away my destination is, I would still want to know whether the bus knows that it is at the correct bus stop or not.
In fact, there are cases where train fare gates have charged the wrong fare. I recall it was in the newspapers, so even if the fare gate remains in the train station, like forever, they can still potentially charge the wrong fare.
So in my case, knowing both the farestages as well as the expected fare is kind of important, which is not the case for the rest of us.
So as I end, I would like to say that I have never meant to force everyone else to use the same techniques that I do, but rather, I am pushing the point that, logically speaking, having the need to know the boarding farestage as well as your fare is the only way that you can estimate your alighting fare stage accurately to within a specific range.
Short of these two information which currently exist in the older bus stops, you would need some sort of transit guide.
I know that some of us just prefer to tap and tap, but I and probably a few other individuals, like to make sure things are correct the first time round and there are others who are somewhere in between these two extreme ends.
In any case, I am going to ask LTA if they are planning any alternative methods on how commuters will be able to ensure that the buses are in-sync with the bus stops now that the fare stages are no longer displayed and I will post whatever reply I get from them on the forums.
Update: And just to add on to an already messy post. I don't actually need to know both alighting and boarding farestages before I board the bus to calculate my fare. All I need to know is my boarding fare stage as well as my fare so that I ensure that when I alight, my farestage is at the correct range.
In other words, my situation is not:
Given boarding and alighting farestages, then calculate fare.
But rather:
Given boarding farestage and fare, then calculate alighting farestage range.
Sorry for all this logic stuff, I have a computer science background and probably am suffering from Asperger's syndrome which probably explains why I am more comfortable with cold hard facts.
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Good insight on the fare-stage system.
I bet certain areas of the smart card system is still being explored on, but a practical but cost demanding way is to install mini computer systems at each stop to transmit fare-stage information to the bus of the particular service. This method is used by some operators in various countries including Japan.
Ever wonder how the high-tech fare collecting machines look like? This is one example made by Lecip Corp and used in Japan. Picture from Wikimedia.
Mounted on a Neoplan Centroliner articulated, this machine combines pre-paid card (magnetic card; smart card in some models), coins/notes slot and 1000 yen note-to-coin exchanger. The screen on the top indicates the fare at each stop. This coin box usually couples with a fare indicator board and AVMS (Automatic Vehicle Monitoring System).
Boarding is via the rear door; collect a ticket slip with a identification number or tap the smart card. The ticket slip shows a number which can be checked with the fare indicator board for the fare to pay. When alighting, place the ticket slip and coins/notes into the slot, or tap the smart card again. Pre-paid card would be deducted in the same way.
For some exact fare modes/systems (eg '100 Yen Bus'), the machine would automatically accept the fare without the driver's interference. If the amount is insufficient, there would be a warning. Too much fare inserted and change will be given automatically. However, on normal route buses with multiple/varying fare-stages, this is not possible.
Some models have automated sales of pre-paid cards. Put in the exact amount, press a button and a pre-paid card will vendor. For Toei bus (Tokyo), one day passes (500 yen) are also sold in the same way.
Such machines are the standard to many operators in Japan.
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As I have pointed out in the Did You Know thread, I am being regularly overcharged for bus rides and thankfully, having noticed them (at point of alighting) I was able to claim them from Transitlink
On all these rides I was overcharged, I did not take a look at the fare stage on the pole but rather took note of the colour band A. And I got down infuriated to have been charged for colour band B ($0.91)
And what more I was charged $1.21 for a ride that should cost $0.69 (this is for bus 23. i boarded it at the stop right after the expressway in Bedok North Rd and alighted at TP. Fare stage updated incorrectly means I was charged as if I boarded at Aft Infineon, therefore $1.21)I don't understand why you are not able to agree with Yusry's post. I give u another example. You see a product at supermarket with labelled price $1.20 (read as in checking the farestage on the pole). The salespersons scans the item and it shows a higher price (as in you board the bus and on the console you see that the fare stage is 0.5 higher or lower, which would result in a higher fare) and ask them immediately about the differing price (differing farestage)
As compared to just checking the colourband, you don't know whether the fare stage at boarding is correct. And if the farestage is wrong, you cannot do anything about it when alighting. As if you had wanted to get down at colourband A, the farestage has went up by 4.5, you would already be charged $0.91. You can file a claim though (within 5 days).
Something that is out of our hands though, is the farestage change due to reopened routes/ new bus stops. 43 always has this problem when going to Paya Lebar.
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Originally posted by jaaze:
As I have pointed out in the Did You Know thread, I am being regularly overcharged for bus rides and thankfully, having noticed them (at point of alighting) I was able to claim them from Transitlink
On all these rides I was overcharged, I did not take a look at the fare stage on the pole but rather took note of the colour band A. And I got down infuriated to have been charged for colour band B ($0.91)
And what more I was charged $1.21 for a ride that should cost $0.69 (this is for bus 23. i boarded it at the stop right after the expressway in Bedok North Rd and alighted at TP. Fare stage updated incorrectly means I was charged as if I boarded at Aft Infineon, therefore $1.21)I don't understand why you are not able to agree with Yusry's post. I give u another example. You see a product at supermarket with labelled price $1.20 (read as in checking the farestage on the pole). The salespersons scans the item and it shows a higher price (as in you board the bus and on the console you see that the fare stage is 0.5 higher or lower, which would result in a higher fare) and ask them immediately about the differing price (differing farestage)
As compared to just checking the colourband, you don't know whether the fare stage at boarding is correct. And if the farestage is wrong, you cannot do anything about it when alighting. As if you had wanted to get down at colourband A, the farestage has went up by 4.5, you would already be charged $0.91. You can file a claim though (within 5 days).
Something that is out of our hands though, is the farestage change due to reopened routes/ new bus stops. 43 always has this problem when going to Paya Lebar.
Haha, you can just go to transitlink office after alighting anyway.
Oh yes, supermarket and bus is two different matters.
Eg. you see a bus model at a toy shop price tag writing $12.99, obviously they will charge you $12.95 right? Is just that it's the other way round only what....
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@Jaaze, I thnk you're referring to me. I didn't understand his rationale at first, now that he has explained it, it's a good viewpoint too...and like I said I never said it was wrong. Different people have different views to it.
The supermarket analogy doesn't work here as I don't see the price directly when I look at the fare stage. I need to know the alighting and boarding fare stage, that's 2 factors. Even then, I have manually process the fare stage calculation and remember how each fare band costs.
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Originally posted by SBS8214Z:
Haha, you can just go to transitlink office after alighting anyway.
Can claim online too...
https://www.transitlink.com.sg/claim/claim_complain.html
way more convenient :D