SMRT Trials Mercedes Benz Citaro (O530)
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
if its not due to complaints, then why the delay? why wait until the bus is 14-15 years old to commence "mid-life" refurbishments. if it's not about complaints, doesn't this show a lack of interest from the company in doing something? SMRT has already publicly admitted that their bus division is a liability - clear sign of disinterest there.
This reply is the precise reason why SMRT decided to give it a makeover. Just because the replacement is not apparent or visible does not mean that broken parts didn't get replaced. Being PR minded, they would have found out that a visible refurbishment has a larger impact on image than if they just retained the original interior specifications as they did for UD/O405s.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
This reply is the precise reason why SMRT decided to give it a makeover. Just because the replacement is not apparent or visible does not mean that broken parts didn't get replaced. Being PR minded, they would have found out that a visible refurbishment has a larger impact on image than if they just retained the original interior specifications as they did for UD/O405s.
isn't that bowing to public pressure in some sense?
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
isn't that bowing to public pressure in some sense?
Yes. But visible refurbishment (or lack thereof) has no relation to whether the management is proactive or not. They have performed the replacements, but many have not noticed.
Your criticisms on giving DAF/Scanias such a late visible refurbishment can also be similarly applied to SBST's O405 Mk I/B10M Mark IIIs in exchange for a few extra years of life. Only we bus fans know that they have received the refurbishments, but to the common traveller seeing that the colours of the interior have hardly changed, they would not have noticed that it was refurbished (which was the case of SMRT's O405/UDs). If they made it visible, SBST passengers would also scream "is it worth it?!"
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
SMRT Corp has already admitted their bus operations are a liability, is that not enough substantiation on my part? which organisation would continue to show interest in a division they have dismissed as a "liability", unless forced to by public pressure or external intervention?
You are entitled to your opinions, and I respect that. In fact, I do agree with some of the points you have raised.However, the point I'm trying to raise here is cold hard proof. Just like how you want tintinspartan to demonstrate evidence that SBST rejected the OC500LE on the grounds of cost, I would also appreciate it if you can support with factual statistics, your remark that SMRT is refurbishing their buses only on the grounds of public complaints.
Everyone can come up with as many theories as possible, but until and unless he can show those factual statistics, they remain as they are - theories and opinions. So let's not get carried away debating with opinions as substantiation. It gets nobody anywhere.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Yes. But visible refurbishment (or lack thereof) has no relation to whether the management is proactive or not. They have performed the replacements, but many have not noticed.
Your criticisms on giving DAF/Scanias such a late visible refurbishment can also be similarly applied to SBST's O405 Mk I/B10M Mark IIIs in exchange for a few extra years of life. Only we bus fans know that they have received the refurbishments, but to the common traveller seeing that the colours of the interior have hardly changed, they would not have noticed that it was refurbished (which was the case of SMRT's O405/UDs). If they made it visible, SBST passengers would also scream "is it worth it?!"
fair enough. the quality of the refurbishment works that have been tendered out ultimately hinges on management decision after all. thus in a way we are able to suss out how proactive or how willing management is in effecting such changes.
the first round of refurbishments for the Mk IIIs and O405s were definitely noticeable enough IMO. seat cushions were changed and the entire air-con ducting was gutted out and replaced. not to mention standee area was added for the O405s. the second round of refurbishment was minor touchup work not in the same league as that of the L113CRBs and DAFs.
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Originally posted by TIB1171R:
However, the point I'm trying to raise here is cold hard proof. Just like how you want tintinspartan to demonstrate evidence that SBST rejected the OC500LE on the grounds of cost, I would also appreciate it if you can support with factual statistics, your remark that SMRT is refurbishing their buses only on the grounds of public complaints.
It is impossible because any documents would have been classified info. If it ever shows up, the mods would remove them in a blink.
What would do have is antedotal or circumsanical evidence, which can be debated or checked out on our own, which may dispel or (in most cases) reinforce our beliefs that we already have.
For this same reason, it is hard to convince any die-hard fan from either side of the company.
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Originally posted by TIB1171R:
However, the point I'm trying to raise here is cold hard proof. Just like how you want tintinspartan to demonstrate evidence that SBST rejected the OC500LE on the grounds of cost, I would also appreciate it if you can support with factual statistics, your remark that SMRT is refurbishing their buses only on the grounds of public complaints.
the opinion that SMRT was refurbishing DAFs and L113s because of public complaints wasn't from me. I was quoting our dear tintinspartan.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
It is impossible because any documents would have been classified info. If it ever shows up, the mods would remove them in a blink.
For this same reason, it is hard to convince any die-hard fan from either side of the company.
Which is why members have to refrain from making provocative demands and statements from each other. You may have knowledge of classified information from SBST, but that doesn't mean the member you are sceptical of does not have his from SMRT as well. -
Originally posted by TIB1171R:
Which is why members have to refrain from making provocative demands and statements from each other. You may have knowledge of classified information from SBST, but that doesn't mean the member you are sceptical of does not have his from SMRT as well.That means bus fans should have more meetup!
Back to the topic, I think 16 Mar is going to be quite a crowd on the Citaro with the bus fans, even in the morning!
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
That means bus fans should have more meetup!
Back to the topic, I think 16 Mar is going to be quite a crowd on the Citaro with the bus fans, even in the morning!
I couldn't agree on these 2 points more
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i can only catch citaro on wednesday. tues cannot. got test on wednesday! so i would need some help if you know timings. hahahaha.
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That's why i dun like to argue much on this matter,No point!One majority group pro-SBST and quarter SMRT.But in the end the preferences is yours.There's always a big difference between these two.SMRT cannot be SBST and vice-versa.I agree with 1171R we only have theories and opinions but not the actual fact.
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Originally posted by off_service:
It doesn't have. The area for the built-in PIS is fitted with a "stop" sign instead. If they do buy more units next time hope they will integrate the PIS in.
1 year trial can put PIS? Should be after the trial period then it would get the PIS bah...
Anyway, my guess for SMRT ordering lesser bus was to have a mixed variety of different types of buses and making a great chances for more RARE CAMEO
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they should just put their Citaros on RWS and start 855R amend it to ply through toa payoh via 163 to toa payoh and 153 to farrer rd. sure make money. SMRT need to ply a service into TPY and make it full Citaro. self-centred? ehehehe.
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
the second round of refurbishment was minor touchup work not in the same league as that of the L113CRBs and DAFs.
L113CRLs not CRBs.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
That means bus fans should have more meetup!
Back to the topic, I think 16 Mar is going to be quite a crowd on the Citaro with the bus fans, even in the morning!
bowling outing.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Yes. But visible refurbishment (or lack thereof) has no relation to whether the management is proactive or not. They have performed the replacements, but many have not noticed.
Your criticisms on giving DAF/Scanias such a late visible refurbishment can also be similarly applied to SBST's O405 Mk I/B10M Mark IIIs in exchange for a few extra years of life. Only we bus fans know that they have received the refurbishments, but to the common traveller seeing that the colours of the interior have hardly changed, they would not have noticed that it was refurbished (which was the case of SMRT's O405/UDs). If they made it visible, SBST passengers would also scream "is it worth it?!"
i can see SMRT putting effort now. kudos. last time dusty seats. i remember most buses with dusty seats. cough cough. lances with cockroach colonies, terrible gearslips and vibrations. somehow, i still find their DAF uncomfortable, very dirty, noisy and vibrates alot. but till now their orchard rd habits are still brown. 1209S.
but at least they got better refurbishment done to their CRLs, i sat 566S on 190 bef refurbishment it was disastrous but i sat a refurbished CRL soon after and it was real good. improvement in their frequency on city area services esp 61 190 700 970. i feel that they really are stepping up this time which is really good. (: thumbs up.
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Originally posted by SBS9818A:
SMRT Corp has already admitted their bus operations are a liability, is that not enough substantiation on my part? which organisation would continue to show interest in a division they have dismissed as a "liability", unless forced to by public pressure or external intervention?
Why bother to argue with these people???It is already obvious that they merely support the company just because they buy better buses, not providing better services. Simply shallow minded. And disregrding the "old TIBS" buses in their fleet simply irks me on this company even further. If not for TIBS bus, would SMRTB be what it is today??? "130 strong fleet", so the rest of the 600 odd buses are "trash" and not part of the SMRTB fleet??? Never mind, not commenting any further, or else these fan boys will continue their mindless reasonings again.
And yes, I waited 40 mins for 961 along Woodlands Road last week, evening peak. Really, that's called "good service" to you all.
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Originally posted by SBS7485P:
they should just put their Citaros on RWS and start 855R amend it to ply through toa payoh via 163 to toa payoh and 153 to farrer rd. sure make money. SMRT need to ply a service into TPY and make it full Citaro. self-centred? ehehehe.
I call it competition. But LTA would probably be the angry one.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Why bother to argue with these people???It is already obvious that they merely support the company just because they buy better buses, not providing better services. Simply shallow minded. And disregrding the "old TIBS" buses in their fleet simply irks me on this company even further. If not for TIBS bus, would SMRTB be what it is today??? "130 strong fleet", so the rest of the 600 odd buses are "trash" and not part of the SMRTB fleet??? Never mind, not commenting any further, or else these fan boys will continue their mindless reasonings again.
And yes, I waited 40 mins for 961 along Woodlands Road last week, evening peak. Really, that's called "good service" to you all.
Everytime you have to come in and give the same statement that people should not bother about bus fans who support SMRT. Very "righteous" for you to do eh?
People are entitled to their own opinions and views about any company. WHO are you to call them shallow minded? Just because you have negative feelings about one company DOESN'T MEAN that EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO FOLLOW YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS. You are only provoking more anger (I don't mean the debate on top - it's a fair-enough-debate) by this very immature statement of yours. I'm surprised that an adult like you can make such a shameful statement.
Think of yourself before you label others shallow minded.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Why bother to argue with these people???It is already obvious that they merely support the company just because they buy better buses, not providing better services. Simply shallow minded. And disregrding the "old TIBS" buses in their fleet simply irks me on this company even further. If not for TIBS bus, would SMRTB be what it is today??? "130 strong fleet", so the rest of the 600 odd buses are "trash" and not part of the SMRTB fleet??? Never mind, not commenting any further, or else these fan boys will continue their mindless reasonings again.
And yes, I waited 40 mins for 961 along Woodlands Road last week, evening peak. Really, that's called "good service" to you all.
Bold: speak for yourself.
Red: it is very normal for 961 to have such frequency during evening peak hours. use your common sense to think of the places likely to have jams along the route. a usual 50-min trip back to WRI from my school can be lengthened to at least 70mins all thanks to jams. what to do?
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Why bother to argue with these people???It is already obvious that they merely support the company just because they buy better buses, not providing better services. Simply shallow minded. And disregrding the "old TIBS" buses in their fleet simply irks me on this company even further. If not for TIBS bus, would SMRTB be what it is today??? "130 strong fleet", so the rest of the 600 odd buses are "trash" and not part of the SMRTB fleet??? Never mind, not commenting any further, or else these fan boys will continue their mindless reasonings again.
And yes, I waited 40 mins for 961 along Woodlands Road last week, evening peak. Really, that's called "good service" to you all.
Woodlands Rd towards WRI or Lor 1?
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1232Z,Nenepokey relax.No need to get tense over his comments.Frankly i cant be bothered by him also.Just because we like SMRT buses more these peoples label us shallow minded and by now you'll already knew who is really shallow minded right?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
1232Z,Nenepokey relax.No need to get tense over his comments.Frankly i cant be bothered by him also.Just because we like SMRT buses more these peoples label us shallow minded and by now you'll already knew who is really shallow minded right?
I concur. Ever since he started posting, I've not seen one post (oh and don't take this literally) from him which doesn't bash SMRT, the CEO, or the buses division.
Come to think of it, I also spend long times waiting for SBST buses at times...heh...I think 74's frequency during the morning peak in the Hougang direction isn't that fantastic either..
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
It's the workers who let the company image down. I may go into a rant bout this but i'm telling this from honest opinion and observation. Bus drivers on same service not co-operating with each other to maintain frequency, resulting in delays.
For example, if you have 4 buses in a service running at 10 mins frequency and 3 of the buses 'run (chiong)' and reach destination very early, you can expect the remainder bus which stick to schedule to suffer the worst load. There are a few feeders where this happens. I once took a bus which broke down and the bus behind it refused to pick up the affected passengers. To make matters worse, there's lots of space in the bus. I hope SMRT can just reprimand these drivers to stick to schedule.
Also, there are drivers which dun care about time. Take their own sweet time to reach destination resulting in bunchup and delays. This is what i don't like about some SMRT services.
About the Citaro, the bus would give SMRT a good image that they CARE for passenger safety and not only cost. See this, SBST bought Scanias which were cheap but did gave a few issues to passengers. They didn't accept the OC demostrater for the expensive cost. SMRT buy OCs because they are good buses, though expensive in cost but at least they are buying quality product. You compare the OCs and KUBs. You will see the big difference. Also, SMRT took the initiative to refurb the DAFs and Scanias which recieved lots of complaints over the years. The addition of Citaro will let SBST see that sometimes, you have to sacrifice cost for customer satisfaction.
That said, however, getting a bus like the Citaro will not fully give SMRT a general good image where operations are concerned. SMRT should look into tightening up their service frequencies and reprimand drivers if they don't follow company rules and commit offences like being too early at the destination point and so on.
DAFs and Scanias refurb? Dennis Lances also time to refurb liao. These ones will retire after the former 2.
If the Merc OCs are expensive, then I reckon a lot of public money has been spent down under in Perth. The Merc OC500s are everywhere, not even a trace of Volvo or Scania. In fact, I thought SG bus fleet owners weren't too fond of Scania because it was expensive to maintain. Why do we only have 1 4th gen Scania (2888)? Why did CRBs make up less than 5% of SBS fleet in 1996 (60% Volvo, 35% Merc, 5% other makes)?
Why aren't there any Habit-bodied L94UB/UAs in Tibs (now SMRT colours)?