LTA Central Planning (Phase I) – Splitting ultra-long routes
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Originally posted by vicamour:
If all these so called ministers are really that serious in listening and helping, public transport would have been longed improved many years back. They should have gone in person to see how badly managed the bus and rail network is being managed now. And the increasing population is adding pressure and woes to many aspects in the country's infrastructure, including public transport.
Even if they expand the system in future, with the increasing of population in future, relying on one mode of system, will not only add to more overcrowding but more gridlocks as well. Not to mentioned more fare increases in order to recoup back the losses of building and maintaining such expensive systems.
Seriously, they do only see the surface of every problem. Let's look at the bolded part for examples.
Not enough bus captains. Have they ever wondered why not many Singaporeans wants to drive buses? Pay structure wise is low. Even if the working hours can be long, if the pay structure can be improved even further, more Singaporeans might be interested. And the recognition of such jobs like bus captains, waiters, cab drivers, etc, have the government done enough? All these are service lines which the service sector will be the main propellor of the Singapore economy in future.
If long haul routes are affected by other traffic conditions and new bus services add more jams to the existing roads, then why not build a comprehensive guided bus system, which only allows for PUBLIC buses to use, and do not add to more traffic woes to the existing roads? Building such systems are more flexible and cheaper than light rail and public bus services can be almost uninterrupted by other traffic conditions.
Obviously, they are just side stepping problems, for their own agenda. And shifting from one problem to another problem to avoid solving the root problem.
Too bad....productivity is the by-word here. It's not that the ministers failed to recognise that the pay is too low, but because profits is really at the top of their minds.
So how? Encourage FTs to step up to the challenge, pretend to be shocked that the people are fed up with the depressed wages and pressure on the infrastructure and then proceed to implement "them-and-us" policies.
Just about everything screws up. What we're left with is essentially an increasingly divided and at the same time, crowded society, and where the by-word is "competitiveness" (life is a rat-race!).
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Originally posted by SBS7322B:
Pretty worried if Punggol 21+ at Punggol North develops at an alarming rate. SBST should seriously start building on their Punggol North LRT.
How can? It is LTA built one lor, and I yet to see any development there.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
like it or not, face it based on the current ordered figure.NEL's 25 train can still manage to provide 3.5 mins freq thks to some schedule technique which I noticed
which is said, the main issue is buy not enough train. I think there may be chance that DTL share with CCL?
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
How can? It is LTA built one lor, and I yet to see any development there.
There's no development because there is no development to the proposed housing plan at Punggol 21+.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Too bad....productivity is the by-word here. It's not that the ministers failed to recognise that the pay is too low, but because profits is really at the top of their minds.So how? Encourage FTs to step up to the challenge, pretend to be shocked that the people are fed up with the depressed wages and pressure on the infrastructure and then proceed to implement "them-and-us" policies.
Just about everything screws up. What we're left with is essentially an increasingly divided and at the same time, crowded society, and where the by-word is "competitiveness" (life is a rat-race!).
actually in some sense it's true abt e young gen - spoiled riao.But then again, the gabrament has to nuture and breed e correct type of ppl the country needs.
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
which is said, the main issue is buy not enough train. I think there may be chance that DTL share with CCL?
Well the CCL demand wun be tat high either other than during peak hours. -
Originally posted by sbst275:
Well the CCL demand wun be tat high either other than during peak hours.CCL demand would be somewhat the demand of service 966. Fluctuating. In the peak hours, it's really packed but in other times not so much.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Too bad....productivity is the by-word here. It's not that the ministers failed to recognise that the pay is too low, but because profits is really at the top of their minds.So how? Encourage FTs to step up to the challenge, pretend to be shocked that the people are fed up with the depressed wages and pressure on the infrastructure and then proceed to implement "them-and-us" policies.
Just about everything screws up. What we're left with is essentially an increasingly divided and at the same time, crowded society, and where the by-word is "competitiveness" (life is a rat-race!).
Seriously, from here, we can forsee the country is sinking. Hertiage lost, roots gone...
And travelling in future gets more boring. Remembered how the bridge to Sentosa was developed in the 1990s, now Sentosa is just another Singapore, with no character of itself anymore. It was such fun to travel to Sentosa back then through the ferry and cable cars. Now it is just part of another boring urban jungle.
Originally posted by sbst275:
actually in some sense it's true abt e young gen - spoiled riao.But then again, the gabrament has to nuture and breed e correct type of ppl the country needs.
Gonna agree in certain aspects. Like this episode, everything also wants to be the best, but forget what is the thing that people really want. Why build such fanciful rail systems where the citizens are so unhappy about the annual fare hikes and the overpopulation right now? they should be focusing in reducing medical costs and other better methods to overcome problems of supporting the citizens of the aging population. Money spend on such systems can jolly well help to subsidise more for ever increasing medical bills, and more subsidies for the poor and elderly citizens.No wonder, Singaporeans keep on complaining and they can only complain because they cannot protest or being listened and provided what they wanted. Else those who are persistant in life are or will migrated.
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Originally posted by SBS7322B:
CCL demand would be somewhat the demand of service 966. Fluctuating. In the peak hours, it's really packed but in other times not so much.
966 still not tat badFigure CCL's weekend demand less CCL1 stretch.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Well the CCL demand wun be tat high either other than during peak hours.Ya, as train enthus should have make a movie called "Train not enough" and for bus enthus, make a movie called "Bus not long enough" (After the revamp) lol!
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Seriously, from here, we can forsee the country is sinking. Hertiage lost, roots gone...
And travelling in future gets more boring. Remembered how the bridge to Sentosa was developed in the 1990s, now Sentosa is just another Singapore, with no character of itself anymore. It was such fun to travel to Sentosa back then through the ferry and cable cars. Now it is just part of another boring urban jungle.
Sentosa's bridge was happened tat PSA was developing Brani Terminal after taking over the land from RSN.So the bridge was built together.
ironically if PSA went straight to develop PPT, maybe e bridge might have been just commissioned
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Guess we will have to do with our own transports, when the time comes
But some services are going to be affected though, big time
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Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
Guess we will have to do with our own transports, when the time comes
But some services are going to be affected though, big time
I'm worried for the service serving the Upper Paya Lebar corridor from Paya Lebar to Serangoon. They will get a drop in demand.
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Originally posted by SBS7322B:
I'm worried for the service serving the Upper Paya Lebar corridor from Paya Lebar to Serangoon. They will get a drop in demand.
135 should remain though, can't guarantee for 147 and co.
by the way, does 135 pass by your area?
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Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
135 should remain though, can't guarantee for 147 and co.
by the way, does 135 pass by your area?
No. It doesn't.
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Originally posted by SBS7322B:
No. It doesn't.
so i take it that you live somewhere below serangoon?
anyway, wont speculate that much, but cant guarantee which services gets the chop
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Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
so i take it that you live somewhere below serangoon?
anyway, wont speculate that much, but cant guarantee which services gets the chop
You can assume that.
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*sigh* what to do? this is singapore, where everything is rising
anyway, hope 135 wont be affected, for now
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Becoming more and more jialat for buses for sure.Wonder howmany gezillion times they implemented stupid rules and regulation just to make Sillypore first in everything.Country so small yet wanna import so many as 2 million FT to here where evrywhere you can see peoples.Go JB make stupid law must have at least three quarter tank fuel if not summons.Then the non stop rising COE with excuses like you know what reasons,Then CPF law,Bla bla.No wonder many Singaporeans migrating overseas.Everthing rise in SG except your pay.Thanks dear Gahmen or Gabramen.
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They think MRT stations are airports and Singapore the size of US? Want to switch to Hub and Spoke system?
Journey times already long and crowded enough, transport system becoming more of a joke day by day.
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COE prices should have been expensive in the first place to deter ppl from owning a car in the first place (not ERP tat 'helps people to own cars'). Jam kpkb, COE expensive kpkb. What U want?
Be lucky it's not in Hong Kong whereby ppl have to go take the process to secure a parking lot before purchasing a car.
As for the 3/4 tank rule, it's good. U can own a car, u expect either S'pore or M'sia govt to spoonfeed subisdising you? As mentioned long ago, M'sia by next year will become a net importer of petrol, they will no longer be able to subsidise petrol! Not to mention how much taxes the real taxpayers in M'sia has to saddle with all these with Corp & Income tax (Cap) at 26%.
Dun go around and kpkb why petrol in JB RM3 per litre.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
COE prices should have been expensive in the first place to deter ppl from owning a car in the first place (not ERP tat 'helps people to own cars'). Jam kpkb, COE expensive kpkb. What U want?
Be lucky it's not in Hong Kong whereby ppl have to go take the process to secure a parking lot before purchasing a car.
As for the 3/4 tank rule, it's good. U can own a car, u expect either S'pore or M'sia govt to spoonfeed subisdising you? As mentioned long ago, M'sia by next year will become a net importer of petrol, they will no longer be able to subsidise petrol! Not to mention how much taxes the real taxpayers in M'sia has to saddle with all these with Corp & Income tax (Cap) at 26%.
Dun go around and kpkb why petrol in JB RM3 per litre.
How can you compare a real world class transport system like in Hong Kong, with a "so called" first class one here?
If Singapore's public transport system has been all along in this state of mess and will be in the future, why should Singaporeans be deprived of their choice to own their own transport? If the authorities are unwillingly to improve the public transport needs of the commuters based on feedbacks and fieldworks and making it worse through this episode, should it fair for commuters to drive their own transport, which is less of a hassle, rather than being bugged by these unnecessary public transport woes all the time? Most Singaporeans have a lot of things to worry in life, such kind of worries are deemed unnecessary already. Owning a car is also a sense of achievement and ownership too, especially one which has a family and will want to bring the bondage of family ties further. Do you think taking a packed bus or train can achieve that?
Lastly, what is the root of all these congestion problems everywhere in Singapore, the overcrowded population. And don't make this problem another problem to the native Singaporeans who want a decent living space in this small country.
Complaining about fuel problems, then buy green cars, that will solve the fuel issues while still own a car.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
How can you compare a real world class transport system like in Hong Kong, with a "so called" first class one here?
If Singapore's public transport system has been all along in this state of mess and will be in the future, why should Singaporeans be deprived of their choice to own their own transport? If the authorities are unwillingly to improve the public transport needs of the commuters based on feedbacks and fieldworks and making it worse through this episode, should it fair for commuters to drive their own transport, which is less of a hassle, rather than being bugged by these unnecessary public transport woes all the time? Most Singaporeans have a lot of things to worry in life, such kind of worries are deemed unnecessary already. Owning a car is also a sense of achievement and ownership too, especially one which has a family and will want to bring the bondage of family ties further. Do you think taking a packed bus or train can achieve that?
Lastly, what is the root of all these congestion problems everywhere in Singapore, the overcrowded population. And don't make this problem another problem to the native Singaporeans who want a decent living space in this small country.
Complaining about fuel problems, then buy green cars, that will solve the fuel issues while still own a car.
heck w/ car issue. Even w/ green car, question comes how much cars can we have on the road? If there's jam the whole day, how 'green' is it?
As for cars vs public tpt, when u dun have space how is it u're going to get urself comfortable vs the bus or MRT when e road is jammed? It's like self denial. If you were to look at cities like KL, they dun have efficient LRT or bus and the roads are jammed, so how? tbh, road tax is dirt cheap there and petrol has to be subsidised, do they've $$ for flyover works or build more LRT lines?
As for Hong Kong is because from the British times they've focused on it. Ironically did the British care for our infrastructure? Dun forget it was only after indepedence that we began cleaning everything up. Though I'll say the prev recent tpt mini star did no favour w/ their policy to improve anything as they allowed more ppl in.
Over there in HK, you need to prove u've a parking lot before u can even own a car.
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The legacy and pride of the 1996 White Paper era is gone...
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For the hub and spoke system, I would think that its efficiency depends on how its implemented here.
Hub and spoke system may require large amount of space at train stations to bring commuters to their homes, the station acts as a 'hub'. Spokes are whereby buses bring commuters to their doorstep/close to their home.
Hong Kong don't really have a comprehensive hub-spoke system. Long distance bus services still dominate the infrastructure and is necessary because rail lines are slow in progressing.
I have chosen a town area in Tokyo called Kasai (葛西) for comparison of its spoke (bus) system. Its hub is Kasai Station (葛西駅) of the Tokyo Metro Tosai Line (�京メトム�西線), 97118 passengers per day. One long distance service to Akihabara and others are feeder services, lets take a look at the frequency.
Akihabara 26, to Akihabara Station (JR Yamanote/Chuo/Tsukuba Express), 14.661 km.
秋２６
秋葉原駅�行
平日
05:
06: 15 25 36 47 55
07: 03W 10 17 24W 31
39W 47 55
08: 06 22 39 56
09: 13W 29 47
10: 08 31
11: 00W 30W 59
12: 24 49
13: 14W 34W 54
14: 18W 40
15: 01 19 39 55W
16: 08 21 34 49W
17: 02W 17 32 47
18: 03 21W 40 58
19: 23W 49
20: 15W 45
21:
22:
23:The left column indicates hour, right minutes. Numbers with W indicates WAB bus.
Now, a feeder service to Nagisa New Town, a short distance away.
Kasai 24, to Nagisa New Town, 2.690 km.
葛西２４
���ニュータウン行
05:
06: 44 59
07: 15 29 33 47
55
08: 03 08 18 25
35 43 48
09: 02 19 32 48
10: 04 15 28 43
53
11: 08 25 43
12: 02 27 48
13: 12 37 59
14: 25 47
15: 04 18 34 47
16: 00 16 31 45
57
17: 10 22 33 45
57
18: 11 25 39 56
19: 08 20 37 51
20: 05 26 48
21: 10 31 55
22: 23 50
23:Almost every other bus in this service is WAB so I leave the W out.
So what does this show? Feeder and trunk services have to be planned efficiently to avoid clogging up, plus, timings need to be accurate (as promoted, timings may be more accurate if bus services are short, we shall see to that). Townspeople in Japan do not fret when they see timings like above, because they are sure the bus will arrive, if not, apologies from the staff and a note for their employers that their are late because of a bus not appearing, practices that do not exist locally.
One additional practice that Japan uses when it comes to train/bus frequency is called utilization. I doubt many here have thought of this when you cry for more trains and buses. For some peak hour trains yes we can see it being utilized fully, cramming on trains, hitting LTA rated capacity (which is about 250 - 280 percent capacity in Japan urban transport context). Buses wise there are slots in some services that can be reduced, time and money channeled to more useful areas and especially peak periods. One less empty/little utilized bus in off-peak translates to one more bus useful in peak hours. Money is not infinite and hence service needs to be adjusted.
Oh, and you have not see one service from the same town I mentioned earlier, that has the most sparse frequency (and shows effectively the spirit of utilization), a bus service from the train station to the town's hospital (Tokyo Rinkai Hospital).
Shinshyu 30, branch line to Tokyo Rinkai Hospital, total route 12.958 km.
新�３�
�京臨海病院�行
平日
05:
06:
07:
08:
09: 14W
10: 13
11: 10W
12: 03W 35
13: 11
14:
15:
16: 17W
17: 04W
18:
19:
20:
21:
22:
23: