LTA Central Planning (Phase I) – Splitting ultra-long routes
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the blend got owned.
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Originally posted by service_238:
walking is good for exercising.. especially for peeps using adult fare.then again throughfare is coming so....
actually, just to transfer, already need to walk some distance somewhere....
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
actually, just to transfer, already need to walk some distance somewhere....
it helps reduce singapore's obesity rate.
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Okay let me see.
What are the advantages of splitting long routes?
1. If a direct split is done, perhaps less buses can be deployed or resources can be reallocated to a better use. However, the deployment of less buses is due to certain commuters switching to transfer journeys. I have observed two regular commuters at around 0700 hrs taking 147 from bus stops before my hse at YCK Rd Toho Green all the way to Jln Bukit Merah.
2. Bus drivers can have more toilet breaks and there will be better reliability of bus arrivals. However, this is under the case whereby the split does not result to loop services. A loop service after a split will have to ply twice of the distance travelled which is almost equivalent to the entire route before the split.
3. Reduce costs since buses will not have to travel long distances.
What are the advantages of having direct long routes?
1. Direct. Fewer total walking distance to make transfers. This is especially useful for the elderly and during heavy rains.
2. Buses become a good alternative to train from point to point. With splitting, the role of buses is degraded to just a medium to transport commuters to the "hub" for boarding of the train. If I am not wrong, over 70% of the commuters make direct journeys.
3. More parking lots available in interchanges.
Somehow, the only benefit of splitting is the saving of costs due to buses travelling shorter distances.
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So, I guess, after splitting, they are going to withdraw many services so that the buses don't clog up the interchanges and terminals? :lol:
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Originally posted by tanjun:
Okay let me see.
What are the advantages of splitting long routes?
1. If a direct split is done, perhaps less buses can be deployed or resources can be reallocated to a better use. However, the deployment of less buses is due to certain commuters switching to transfer journeys. I have observed two regular commuters at around 0700 hrs taking 147 from bus stops before my hse at YCK Rd Toho Green all the way to Jln Bukit Merah.
2. Bus drivers can have more toilet breaks and there will be better reliability of bus arrivals. However, this is under the case whereby the split does not result to loop services. A loop service after a split will have to ply twice of the distance travelled which is almost equivalent to the entire route before the split.
What are the advantages of having direct long routes?
1. Direct. Fewer total walking distance to make transfers. This is especially useful for the elderly and during heavy rains.
2. Buses become a good alternative to train from point to point. With splitting, the role of buses is degraded to just a medium to transport commuters to the "hub" for boarding of the train. If I am not wrong, over 70% of the commuters make direct journeys.
3. More parking lots available in interchanges.
Somehow, the benefits of splitting do not seem very strong and apparent.
1: Direct? "Direct long routes" does not equate to the route is a direct, because 14 is a direct no transfer needed service from Bedok - Clementi, but it is certainly taking loops everywhere.
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Some of my thoughts :
If they dont enforce strictly to split all very-long routes, but instead to do it intelligently, maybe it would become like what 167 and 882 is now? Basically if few than a certain % of pax travel from start point to end point on the service, might be a wise decision to split instead of linking 2 different routes together when few pax uses it.
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Originally posted by SBS7485P:
Fact #1: SV 16 is the slower mode even if commuters have to take a bus from henderson/jln bt merah to redhill or tiong bahru mrt.
Fact #2: There are alternative services to SV 16 which are faster
Fact #3: One Harmonious Blend is wrong.
I believe iris Journey Planner is accurate in travel times.
1st point, Have you ever thought of why it would be slow? remember, 16 passes through the town area
2nd point, Alternatives will be faster, yes but have you ever wondered if it goes by the same way?
3rd point , If you think i am wrong, can't force your mentality either
And by the way, 48 minutes is the normal timing for services like 16 to reach mountbatten road though from Bukit Merah straight
If you can clear the above, i have nothing to say much
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Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
2nd point, Alternatives will be faster, yes but have you ever wondered if it goes by the same way?
If it goes the same way it wont be called ALTERNATIVES -
Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
1st point, Have you ever thought of why it would be slow? remember, 16 passes through the town area
2nd point, Alternatives will be faster, yes but have you ever wondered if it goes by the same way?
3rd point , If you think i am wrong, can't force your mentality either
And by the way, 48 minutes is the normal timing for services like 16 to reach mountbatten road though from Bukit Merah straight
If you can clear the above, i have nothing to say much
If alternatives is faster, definately the bus will go in a different route. What talking you??
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Status of 16
I believe Service 16 might be cut short into 2 services.
Bedok To Marine Parade Road (Loop) &
Bukit Merah To Marina Centre (Loop)
These two stretches are harder to delete, because the service serves certain bus stops that has no MRT nearby.
The stretch from Nicoll Highway to Old Airport Road might be axed with the opening of the circle line, forcing people to take MRT.
Probably Service 11 might get extended to compensate for 16's loss. -
Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
1st point, Have you ever thought of why it would be slow? remember, 16 passes through the town area
2nd point, Alternatives will be faster, yes but have you ever wondered if it goes by the same way?
3rd point , If you think i am wrong, can't force your mentality either
And by the way, 48 minutes is the normal timing for services like 16 to reach mountbatten road though from Bukit Merah straight
If you can clear the above, i have nothing to say much
I wonder if you can just for once ADMIT YOUR MISTAKES?!?!?
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
1: Direct? "Direct long routes" does not equate to the route is a direct, because 14 is a direct no transfer needed service from Bedok - Clementi, but it is certainly taking loops everywhere.
Yeah. I agree with you that direct doesn't equate to the shortest distance from point to point. Direct means that one can sleep in the bus all the way from point to point, enjoying the comfortI am not sure about the demand pattern of svc 14. If you are going from East Coast Rd to Bukit Merah for work, will you choose 3 transfers (bus, MRT, bus) or 14 everyday?
This is under the assumption that all bus routes above stage 25 are cut.
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Originally posted by XiaoTaro:
Some of my thoughts :
If they dont enforce strictly to split all very-long routes, but instead to do it intelligently, maybe it would become like what 167 and 882 is now? Basically if few than a certain % of pax travel from start point to end point on the service, might be a wise decision to split instead of linking 2 different routes together when few pax uses it.
agreed. but sadly the split is simply done to recoup the additional costs not needed under the throughfare regime. yes, if only the rationalisation focuses more on intelligent cuts that would have occured under the old fare regime as well.
the plan for Sv 16 will likely be an interesting one. since it merged with Sv 390 in the late 1980s, a lot of changes have occured intending to find the best way to link City with Marine Parade, Joo Chiat & Airport. we had Sv 16E, then came the present-day popular Sv 36 which was plagued by irregular headways & operational issues due to the bus going non-stop the whole day. how to untangle all these mess?
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Originally posted by SBS7485P:
it helps reduce singapore's obesity rate.
what if they munch on tidbits while walking that extra distance each time.........
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Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
I wonder if you can just for once ADMIT YOUR MISTAKES?!?!?
I don't have to lie, and if you can't believe me, I can't force you either
48 mins to an hour is a pretty normal timing for buses that passes by the city to their preferred destination, unless you take the last bus out, or early sunday morning, then it will be pretty fast
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Originally posted by Junyang700:
Status of 16
I believe Service 16 might be cut short into 2 services.
Bedok To Marine Parade Road (Loop) &
Bukit Merah To Marina Centre (Loop)
Bedok to Marine parade loop, that would be just like 15
Bukit Merah to Marina centre (Loop), 195 has it covered
But Bukit merah to Tampines or Upper east coast, still pretty much feasible
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Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
1st point, Have you ever thought of why it would be slow? remember, 16 passes through the town area
2nd point, Alternatives will be faster, yes but have you ever wondered if it goes by the same way?
3rd point , If you think i am wrong, can't force your mentality either
And by the way, 48 minutes is the normal timing for services like 16 to reach mountbatten road though from Bukit Merah straight
If you can clear the above, i have nothing to say much
you answered your own question. it goes past the town area. and its slower. tell me if there will be more passengers taking 16 or take the train and transfer?
if there are alternatives which is faster than 16 going by the same way, why not?
don't force then.
not all passengers are willing to sacrifice time if there's another method which is faster. so even if its 48 minutes, if there are better alternatives to take, passengers will just go over to take the faster method, unless they are not rushing for time.cleared. so do you have nothing to say now?
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Originally posted by tanjun:
Yeah. I agree with you that direct doesn't equate to the shortest distance from point to point. Direct means that one can sleep in the bus all the way from point to point, enjoying the comfortI am not sure about the demand pattern of svc 14. If you are going from East Coast Rd to Bukit Merah for work, will you choose 3 transfers (bus, MRT, bus) or 14 everyday?
This is under the assumption that all bus routes above stage 25 are cut.
Personally, Bus,MRT,Bus seemed to be faster, if I am late. However, if I am tired, and wanted to sleep in bus, then 14. But, the fear is crowded bus and MRT make me no seat and sleep lol! One will have to take into account that a traffic jam can be disatorous as well.
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Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:
Bedok to Marine parade loop, that would be just like 15
Bukit Merah to Marina centre (Loop), 195 has it covered
But Bukit merah to Tampines or Upper east coast, still pretty much feasible
Bedok to Marine Parade loop is not like 15. 15 goes to Bedok Reservoir and Eunos area then Marine Parade Town Centre while 16 is Bedok Town Centre, Bedok South (Bit of), Marine Parade (Siglap), Marine Parade Estate (Blk 50s, Blk 10s, Blk 30s in Marine Parade Road, Terrace and Crescent -- Where 15 does not cover), then Marine Parade Town Centre. (If it is going to be like what you said)
However, there are alternatives for this. 31, 197 generally can cover the stretch of Bedok - Marine Parade excluding the estate in the Blk 10s and Blk 30s, which is served by 196 again.
So, I doubt this sector may be preserved, OR rather, Bedok - Geylang Lorong 1 where the existing Bedok - Stadium remains and detour to Geylang Lorong 1.
This can be problematic where the portion of Dakota - Stadium is quite overlapping, where the possible 2 is:
Bedok - Eunos (Via Marine Parade, Joo Chiat Road, Dunman Road, Tanjong Katong Road then follows 30 to Eunos). But there are many services that plys from Bedok - Eunos and the only main benefit seems to be on Joo Chiat Road and Dunman road because Marine Parade have 55 or 15 towards Eunos and Tanjong Katong road people can just use 30.
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Originally posted by tanjun:
Yeah. I agree with you that direct doesn't equate to the shortest distance from point to point. Direct means that one can sleep in the bus all the way from point to point, enjoying the comfortI am not sure about the demand pattern of svc 14. If you are going from East Coast Rd to Bukit Merah for work, will you choose 3 transfers (bus, MRT, bus) or 14 everyday?
This is under the assumption that all bus routes above stage 25 are cut.
S14 is a screwed route by itself. Extend and merge until present day. Splitting is a tough job i find.. One way is Bedok - Tomlinson Rd (Loop) / Bt Merah (even looping or terminating at these 2 places make the route feels long) and Clementi to Geylang Lor 1. Overlapping sector is Bt Merah till Nicoll Highway.
Another idea is split them into 3 sections.
1: Bedok - Marine Parade (Loop) via East Coast Rd, Amber Rd, Marine Parade Rd, Still Rd, East Coast Rd (clockwise direction also can). This retains the links between Bedok Nth residents going to East Coast and Siglap areas, not to mention Temasek Sec and Tanah Merah. I personally feel under hub and spoke LTA will make the Bedok Nth residents take train from Tanah Merah/Bedok to Nicoll Highway/Suntec/Orchard areas.. and beyond.2: Upp East Coast - Bt Merah
At least this route doesnt feel long. Retains the links between the East Coast/Siglap corridor and Orchard. Bedok Rd ppl going to Orchard either take 10 change to this service or take a bus to Tanah Merah change train. It also retains the River Valley/Lower Delta corridor with Orchard (also covered by 65) as well as the Bt Merah <-> Lower Delta/River Valley corridor (partly covered by 5). Ppl living near Brickworks would have to take a bus down a few stops to transfer to this service to go Orchard, or take 123.3: Clementi - Marina Ctr/MBS
From Bt Merah turn Lower Delta then Tiong Bahru and follow 195 till Marina Ctr. Which means 195 can be amended and/or terminate elsewhere as the Tiong Bahru -> Marina Ctr sector is pretty weak.Originally posted by Junyang700:Status of 16
I believe Service 16 might be cut short into 2 services.
Bedok To Marine Parade Road (Loop) &
Bukit Merah To Marina Centre (Loop)
These two stretches are harder to delete, because the service serves certain bus stops that has no MRT nearby.
The stretch from Nicoll Highway to Old Airport Road might be axed with the opening of the circle line, forcing people to take MRT.
Probably Service 11 might get extended to compensate for 16's loss.
Bt Merah to Marina Centre sounds ok. Might as well extend to MBS then loop at Marina Bay MRT.Bedok to Marine Parade Rd sound too much of 196 except one small section. Joo Chiat area will suffer the loss of the service. Best way out is Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 via Stadium first. In a sense only Nicoll Highway will not be covered by the split.
This is in assumption 16 and 36 dont rojak themselves again like what they did in the past. Or maybe 31 and 149 for that matter.. haha
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
the plan for Sv 16 will likely be an interesting one. since it merged with Sv 390 in the late 1980s, a lot of changes have occured intending to find the best way to link City with Marine Parade, Joo Chiat & Airport. we had Sv 16E, then came the present-day popular Sv 36 which was plagued by irregular headways & operational issues due to the bus going non-stop the whole day. how to untangle all these mess?
Service 16 was originally plying from Bt Merah to Marine Parade in the past, it was extended to Changi Airport when service 390 was withdrawn in late 1993. I believe that the bus journey from Changi Airport to Orchard was rather long with the route passing through Marine Parade, Old Airport Rd and National Stadium areas.Service 16E was introduced as a peak-hour express service somewhere in mid 1995 and was renumbered to service 36 in late 1997. Somewhere in 1998 service 36's route was re-enhanced to its current route and converted to full day trunk service, with service 16 cutback to Marine Parade.
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Originally posted by service_238:
3: Clementi - Marina Ctr/MBS
From Bt Merah turn Lower Delta then Tiong Bahru and follow 195 till Marina Ctr. Which means 195 can be amended and/or terminate elsewhere as the Tiong Bahru -> Marina Ctr sector is pretty weak.Bt Merah to Marina Centre sounds ok. Might as well extend to MBS then loop at Marina Bay MRT.
Bedok to Marine Parade Rd sound too much of 196 except one small section. Joo Chiat area will suffer the loss of the service. Best way out is Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 via Stadium first. In a sense only Nicoll Highway will not be covered by the split.
1:What is an MBS?
2: Isnt the Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 also something I had suggested earlier lol!?
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
1:What is an MBS?
2: Isnt the Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 also something I had suggested earlier lol!?
Marina Bay Sandslol ya.. too many comments and suggestions so i may miss them out in the process of reading.. haha.
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Originally posted by service_238:
Marina Bay Sandslol ya.. too many comments and suggestions so i may miss them out in the process of reading.. haha.
lol! I was thinking of my now-defunct course which is also called as MBS (Mobile Business Solutions) in NP.