Originally posted by service_238:
Bt Merah to Marina Centre sounds ok. Might as well extend to MBS then loop at Marina Bay MRT.Bedok to Marine Parade Rd sound too much of 196 except one small section. Joo Chiat area will suffer the loss of the service. Best way out is Bedok - Geylang Lor 1 via Stadium first. In a sense only Nicoll Highway will not be covered by the split.
This is in assumption 16 and 36 dont rojak themselves again like what they did in the past. Or maybe 31 and 149 for that matter.. haha
what about a merger with 11 for the bedok to geylang lor 1 part? then the other part loop at marina bay
Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:I don't have to lie, and if you can't believe me, I can't force you either
48 mins to an hour is a pretty normal timing for buses that passes by the city to their preferred destination, unless you take the last bus out, or early sunday morning, then it will be pretty fast
Stop using psychology.
If people are kind enough to point out better alternatives, please kindly appreciate the effort they have put in to explain things to you. Not as if nobody even bothered to reply to your nonsense.
Originally posted by BusSpeeder:you answered your own question. it goes past the town area. and its slower. tell me if there will be more passengers taking 16 or take the train and transfer?
if there are alternatives which is faster than 16 going by the same way, why not?
don't force then.
not all passengers are willing to sacrifice time if there's another method which is faster. so even if its 48 minutes, if there are better alternatives to take, passengers will just go over to take the faster method, unless they are not rushing for time.cleared. so do you have nothing to say now?
Yes, alternatives may be faster, but do you have the luck for it? not every bus that is on your side that you alight will reach on time though, if you want it fast, take the 1st to 3rd bus from BM/ Bedok interchange, that will be the fastest, anything later than that, it is not going to get nice with traffic jams.
and with that, i'll leave this open to comments, and leave it at the moment
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
Stop using psychology.If people are kind enough to point out better alternatives, please kindly appreciate the effort they have put in to explain things to you. Not as if nobody even bothered to reply to your nonsense.
If you think i am, so be it, and yes, i will appreciate, only if it is logical
Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:If you think i am, so be it, and yes, i will appreciate, only if it is logical
But a single 'direct' bus also can kena traffic jam, I rather board different buses and MRT, so that it at least moves.
The only clear logical point of your arguement, is, the cheaper fares, which will be gone into history, when the fare structure changes.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:But a single 'direct' bus also can kena traffic jam, I rather board different buses and MRT, so that it at least moves.
The only clear logical point of your arguement, is, the cheaper fares, which will be gone into history, when the fare structure changes.
yes, single direct can cause traffic jams, but at which point of time?
If i take 16 at around 12+ to 1 in the afternoon, sure will kena jam one, needless to say
If it is the start of sunrise, can forget it already, if you want to reach earlier, (should be about 6+ though) either take the 1st bus to 3rd bus from BM/Bedok, so you won't be late
Originally posted by One Harmonius Blend:Yes, alternatives may be faster, but do you have the luck for it? not every bus that is on your side that you alight will reach on time though, if you want it fast, take the 1st to 3rd bus from BM/ Bedok interchange, that will be the fastest, anything later than that, it is not going to get nice with traffic jams.
and with that, i'll leave this open to comments, and leave it at the moment
well you don't need luck for alternatives. and please read, the answer im replying to includes taking the train. so please stop diverting from the topic. and as you said, if you missed the earlier buses, the later trips will be affected by traffic jams. not to mention about the traffic jams, will the service 16 buses that are not affected by the traffic jams even reach the destination faster than the alternatives given? tell me how can 16 be faster than a train in the scenario given by SBS7485P then? i suggest you read his post over at page 13 again before replying me back via PM. keep posting about this and we're derailing from the topic.
I believe that through the split of some of the services it will benefit the majority of the bus communters right here in Singapore. Although we are now being forced to make transfer from 1 bus service to the other or from one mode of transport to the other, but i feel that generally, our transport network will improve. Think about the through-fare system that they will be introduced from July onwards, this will help us to cut down our transport fares significantly.
IMO, it will benefit if they introduce transfer hubs around the city area. Over at these designated transfer hubs, there will have multiple bus berths (or bays) that buses can pull into. And for the buses, they will not be allowed to depart early from the "bus hubs". By doing so, they will then encourage more ppl to switch to public transport as we are now able to make seamless transfer between 2 services by waiting the shortest possible time. Communters who are taking train could also adjust their timings according to the timings provided.
By doing so, they could also minimise the impact of cutting those ultra long routes.
Some of the possible bus hubs that i can think of.
- Shenton Way
- Marina Bay Sands
- Marina Center
- Outram
- Queens St
- Orchard (can make use of the CP behind wheelock).
My issue lies basically over 3 areas.
Are the current infrastructure able to cope with the splitting? As for now, I don't see LTA taking any action to improve capacity at Int/Ter(s) particularly in the City area.
Is the current network able to sustain to changes? The mature MRT lines are getting overloaded. Are you going to further overload the system like in Japan where personnel have to push people into trains? Will there be too many people at hot bus stops for transfers?
What is the response of commuters?
The amount of people relying on direct buses. Is it gonna be 4 transfers instead of a direct bus in future? What about the elderly and disabled? Do they have to change multiple MRT lines and buses in future? Is it feasible?
Originally posted by SBS7485P:My issue lies basically over 3 areas.
Are the current infrastructure able to cope with the splitting? As for now, I don't see LTA taking any action to improve capacity at Int/Ter(s) particularly in the City area.
Is the current network able to sustain to changes? The mature MRT lines are getting overloaded. Are you going to further overload the system like in Japan where personnel have to push people into trains? Will there be too many people at hot bus stops for transfers?
What is the response of commuters?
The amount of people relying on direct buses. Is it gonna be 4 transfers instead of a direct bus in future? What about the elderly and disabled? Do they have to change multiple MRT lines and buses in future? Is it feasible?
The 3rd point:
For the elderly, it may (might) be do good for them IF the first bus kena no seat. Then alight at 5 stops later to transfer, and while doing so, they got a seat in bus-stop. The second bus is not as crowded, so got a seat for the next X number of stop..........
Compared to the whole journey have no seat due to no give way, or there are other elderly as well and the remaining seats need to go up a stairs etc, not convinent mah.
But the disabled can be a major issue. It may means asking 4 BC/SLs to get their passengers to make way for PIWs due to different buses.
Originally posted by sBs_boy:I believe that through the split of some of the services it will benefit the majority of the bus communters right here in Singapore. Although we are now being forced to make transfer from 1 bus service to the other or from one mode of transport to the other, but i feel that generally, our transport network will improve. Think about the through-fare system that they will be introduced from July onwards, this will help us to cut down our transport fares significantly.
Hmm, regarding the cutting down of transport fares, i might not really agree...
Basically, as there wont be any major changes to the bus transit system other than switching to through-fare and cutting some long routes, the operation cost of the whole bus transit system will still be about the same.
As mentioned before, the through-fare system is supposed to bring along cost savings to passengers making transfers by not penalising them when they make transfer(s).
So, where does this cost savings come from, since the operation cost is still the same? Could it come from passengers not making transfers? Will they have to pay more in order to balance out?
Also another point is for feeder and intratown/townlink services, will the passengers continue to pay a flat-fare or also change to a through-fare system? If its a through-fare system, wouldn't intratown/townlink services be useless since they tend to take a longer route to the other side of the town compared to trunk routes.
If "transfer" is seen as a "cost", then there must be rebates/benefits to compensate for that....otherwise commuters suffer, or at least the majority will. Its almost impossible to please everyone, in which case, changing this current system might not be such a good idea.
I think it is better to have a board all you can system in all SBST and SMRT services (Train as well -- but daily 4 train tap in / out), at current price for students, $170 for adults and $60 ~ $80 for senior citizens.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:I think it is better to have a board all you can system in all SBST and SMRT services (Train as well -- but daily 4 train tap in / out), at current price for students, $170 for adults and $60 ~ $80 for senior citizens.
pls don't be crazy.. what happens if you are the sole breadwinner for a family of 3 adults?
one month $510 gone just to use the bus? could be 1/3 of an ordinary worker salary..
that's gonna dissuade pple from using ez-link cards or public transport
a system based on point-to-point mileage is more efficient as users would then pay for their distance instead of the lack of coverage of bus services. commuters can then choose which way they want to go
Originally posted by SBS2772T:
pls don't be crazy.. what happens if you are the sole breadwinner for a family of 3 adults?one month $510 gone just to use the bus? could be 1/3 of an ordinary worker salary..
that's gonna dissuade pple from using ez-link cards or public transport
a system based on point-to-point mileage is more efficient as users would then pay for their distance instead of the lack of coverage of bus services. commuters can then choose which way they want to go
The pricing can be changed, I am based on the board all you can $98 monthly to calculate the estimation for MRT as well. This $170 is a bus + mrt (Limited to first 4 trips daily)
Originally posted by sBs_boy:I believe that through the split of some of the services it will benefit the majority of the bus communters right here in Singapore. Although we are now being forced to make transfer from 1 bus service to the other or from one mode of transport to the other, but i feel that generally, our transport network will improve. Think about the through-fare system that they will be introduced from July onwards, this will help us to cut down our transport fares significantly.
hard to say.. i foresee an increase across the board and then somewhere somehow they will give you the feeling that its cheaper than the Oct 08 fare structure.
Something aside from central planning.. I think after the CCL opens fully, the hubs with the major rail lines at Buona Vista, Bishan, Paya Lebar and probably Serangoon will be as good or worse than the current Dhoby Ghaut, City Hall, Raffles Place and Outram Park. Look at the uncanny resemblence below:
Aim: Divert traffic away from city centre by allowing these traffic to commute via an outer ring system around the city centre
Drivers: Outer Ring Road System (ORR)
Commuters: Circle Line
Current system for drivers on the roads is that the ORR is heavily congested with traffic. The planners were successful at diverting away traffic bypassing the city but they have created problems in the ORR instead. So next step is divert traffic away from ORR?
If this current system applies to commuters, the CCL will be heavily congested with human traffic?
ok maybe the full operation of CCL may divert some drivers to taking the train as corridors like Tai Seng, Pasir Panjang, PSA, Alexandra, One-North, NUS gets served by CCL. However it would be pretty hard for them to do so unless the companies/bldg mgt themselves impose higher season parking charges for the vehicles.. then we may see some progress...
Originally posted by service_238:
hard to say.. i foresee an increase across the board and then somewhere somehow they will give you the feeling that its cheaper than the Oct 08 fare structure.Something aside from central planning.. I think after the CCL opens fully, the hubs with the major rail lines at Buona Vista, Bishan, Paya Lebar and probably Serangoon will be as good or worse than the current Dhoby Ghaut, City Hall, Raffles Place and Outram Park. Look at the uncanny resemblence below:
Aim: Divert traffic away from city centre by allowing these traffic to commute via an outer ring system around the city centre
Drivers: Outer Ring Road System (ORR)
Commuters: Circle Line
Current system for drivers on the roads is that the ORR is heavily congested with traffic. The planners were successful at diverting away traffic bypassing the city but they have created problems in the ORR instead. So next step is divert traffic away from ORR?If this current system applies to commuters, the CCL will be heavily congested with human traffic?
ok maybe the full operation of CCL may divert some drivers to taking the train as corridors like Tai Seng, Pasir Panjang, PSA, Alexandra, One-North, NUS gets served by CCL. However it would be pretty hard for them to do so unless the companies/bldg mgt themselves impose higher season parking charges for the vehicles.. then we may see some progress...
I still feel that the North South Line and the East West Line are still most integrated lines. Transfers between these two lines looks efficient and convenient. In Dhoby Ghaut MRT, commuters have to walk a certain distance to make a transfer from North South Line to North East line and that also applies to Outram Park MRT. In City Hall MRT and Raffles Place MRT, East West Line and North South line ply just on top of one another. The order of lines in City Hall and Raffles Place is just the opposite and that is another add point for people to save the effort of climbing the stairs if they have a huge difficulty of doing so.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:The pricing can be changed, I am based on the board all you can $98 monthly to calculate the estimation for MRT as well. This $170 is a bus + mrt (Limited to first 4 trips daily)
There's a reason behind the term "sticky prices".
from ST online Forum
http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/OnlineStory/STIStory_509793.html
Dun think splitting of the long route will help also, if they dun bother to improve on others areas.
1) illegal parking/waiting of car at bus stop. look at the bus stop outside Bishan Mrt.. even they put up barrier, still same situation. cars still park at the bus stops...
look at the bus stop along Toa Payoh Lor 2 (block 175), there is alway long line of taxis parking/waiting there.. treating the bus stop as taxi stands and where is the enforcement?
2) road works - can see road works here and there, on small road/major roads.. some time 2 lanes can be closed? all these lead to traffic jam.
3) Tree cutting - i have seen tree cutting being carry out on peak hours at AMK Ave 6 and the lorry just parked at the bus lane and dun care whether it is blocking the buses or not...
4) blocking of yellow boxes at bus stops...look at the bus stop at AMK Ave 3 (opposite AMK MRT station).. Sv 25/73/261 have to filter 3 lanes to turn right to Ave 8/interchange.. but the vehicles just all stopped at the yellow boxes and dun give way at all.. this also happen at other junctions/bus stops..
better for LTA to go work on these first, or else, no matter how many routes they split, in the end timing also wont be accurate...
Originally posted by lemon1974:Dun think splitting of the long route will help also, if they dun bother to improve on others areas.
1) illegal parking/waiting of car at bus stop. look at the bus stop outside Bishan Mrt.. even they put up barrier, still same situation. cars still park at the bus stops...
look at the bus stop along Toa Payoh Lor 2 (block 175), there is alway long line of taxis parking/waiting there.. treating the bus stop as taxi stands and where is the enforcement?2) road works - can see road works here and there, on small road/major roads.. some time 2 lanes can be closed? all these lead to traffic jam.
3) Tree cutting - i have seen tree cutting being carry out on peak hours at AMK Ave 6 and the lorry just parked at the bus lane and dun care whether it is blocking the buses or not...
4) blocking of yellow boxes at bus stops...look at the bus stop at AMK Ave 3 (opposite AMK MRT station).. Sv 25/73/261 have to filter 3 lanes to turn right to Ave 8/interchange.. but the vehicles just all stopped at the yellow boxes and dun give way at all.. this also happen at other junctions/bus stops..
better for LTA to go work on these first, or else, no matter how many routes they split, in the end timing also wont be accurate...
Actually I would say that the measures are in place already but it is always very hard to chase after such offenders... if LTA can clamp down very hard on those that illegally park in bus bays, as well as those who illegally stop in the yellow box then I'm sure points 1 and 4 wouldn't be a problem.
Point 3 is much of a headache... I wonder if they can schedule plant pruning in busy roads to specific hours of the day when traffic volume is much lower.
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
Actually I would say that the measures are in place already but it is always very hard to chase after such offenders... if LTA can clamp down very hard on those that illegally park in bus bays, as well as those who illegally stop in the yellow box then I'm sure points 1 and 4 wouldn't be a problem.Point 3 is much of a headache... I wonder if they can schedule plant pruning in busy roads to specific hours of the day when traffic volume is much lower.
They once tried to prune trees at off-peak hours at night. The trial failed.
Originally posted by SBS2601D:
They once tried to prune trees at off-peak hours at night. The trial failed.
they should do it during non-peak hours and weekend for those busy roads..
Now there are more and more articles about the splitting route problems. Below are some unhappiness that came out from the news after surveying:
1) Not visible for the elderly as mostly have the difficulty to climb the steps, furthermore no gurantee seatings if they have to transfer to either MRT or buses. Taxis are too expensive for them, so no need to say.
2) More people think that having to transfer is a waste of time, not inclusive of waiting time as it varies. They would rather take the bus instead for some readings, sceneries, sleeps, which all these are hard to do when you are in a very packed train when transfering.
3) Having asked about transfering from buses to MRT, more percentage of people think that they will still choose buses instead because trains were already so packed, not to even say about saving time. Transfering from a transport to another transport still need time to wait.