Distance-based throughfare & 2.5% cut in fares from July 3rd
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Leong Sze Hian mentioned in his article: "Anyway, I managed to find out that for myself, my typical bus 73/93 transfer journey from Serangoon Gardens to Queensway will increase by 11 per cent from $1.50 to $1.67, and a feeder bus journey will increase by 3 per cent from the current $0.69 to $0.71."
He also said: "With such huge increase in profits, what is the justification for the restoration of the three per cent rebate on 3 July, in conjunction with the 2.5 per cent reduction due to the new distance fares formula?"
from one stop before s'goon circus to one stop after queensway, it's still only $1.49.
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Originally posted by dragg:
only those above 62 are considered senior citizens right?
i believe the senior citizen fare kicks in at age 55.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
from one stop before s'goon circus to one stop after queensway, it's still only $1.49.
I have sent your picture to TOC seeking a clarification from the horse's mouth.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I have sent your picture to TOC seeking a clarification from the horse's mouth.
No problems.
Anyway, I do know many people who have had to pay much more even if they appear to benefit, because the fare stages discriminated against bus companies to try to offer first fare band (4.0 fare stages) for most passengers to make a convenient short trip transfer.
A notable example is the one quoted on newspaper, where commuters now have to pay 6.2km worth of fare (for actual mileage) from Kranji MRT to JB CIQ, up from the token 3.2km offered to passengers coming from Kranji MRT. The corresponding fare hike is an outright 40¢ for cash-paying passengers, and benefits from a free rides to a fare hike of as high as 35¢ if prior distance travelled is less than 3.2km.
Some of the services flagged for huge disparity between stage-based fares and distance-based fares are Services 155, 852 and 854, if you were following the thread earlier on.
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Yah lor.
I pay 10c more everyday because the bus stop i alight is <100m past the 3.2km fare tier.
Old Fare System:
1-4.5 FS - I pay $x
If my bus stop suay suay 5 FS away, I pay $x+$yNew Fare System:
0-3.2km - I pay $x
If my bus stop suay suay 3.21km away, I pay $x+$yWhat the :(
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talking about the fares involving transfer, i think it is wrong for PTC to increase the transfer rebate from 2008 first from 25 cents to 40 cents and then to 50 cents.... they should have remove the rebates of 25 cents only now, so that people can realise the benefit of this so called removal of rebates...
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Originally posted by gohby:
Hello sbst275, let me tell you in detail how this distance fares has benefited me:
Previously:
1. To work:
43/70/76: Tai Seng Christian Church --> opp Tai Seng MRT ($0.69)
90: aft Upp Paya Lebar Road --> St Aero ($0.19)
Total: $0.88
2. From work:
90: St Aero -> opp Block 1022 ($0.69) + 43/70/76: Tai Seng MRT --> Blk 214 ($0.19)
Fares = $0.88
Now, with the "cheaper" distance fares:
1. To work:
76->90 = 5.6km = $1.01 (+0.13 / +14.8%)
43/70->90=6.2km=$1.01 (+0.13 / +14.8%)
2. Back:
90->76 = 3km+3.1km = 6.1km
New Fares= $1.01 (+0.13 / +14.8%)
90->70/43 = 3km+3.6km=6.6km
New Fares=$1.09 (+0.18 / + 20.5%)
Hello, and I make a transfer, mind you. The distance fares is supposed to eradicate transfer penalty (and thus benefiting commuters who do transfers). How come with the eradication of the transfer penalty I end up paying so much more?
Not convinced? Let me quote you with another transfer example:
Scenario: Tai Seng Church->Kembangan MRT
Previous:0.91(43/70/76)+0.18(MRT) = $1.09
Current: $1.15 (+0.06)
I pity the senior citizens the most; instead of having their fares tied to the lowest fare bands. Now their fares are euphemistically said to be 25% cheaper than the adult fares, capped at 7.2km, when in actual fact their fares have been obscenely hiked.
Let me just blindly list one eg. (amongst the numerous egs/combinations that I can think of)
Newton MRT -> Serangoon MRT
Previous fares: $0.73
Current fares: $0.97 (+$0.24 / +32.9%)
Just look at the percentage increase!
If you take a direct bus, your fees will most probably go up:
Eg.
136 from Tai Seng Church -> Edgefield Plains or vice versa.
Previous: $1.11
Now: $1.15 (+0.04)
Therefore, with the aforementioned examples, I can't help but to conclude that distance fares has benefited me tremendously in terms of helping to keep my wallet light.
have nothing much to say about the direct bus fares though... cos like what tamago have said, SBST have try to give benefit to passengers in the past, when passengers are suppose to pay higher fare with higher fare band, but SBST choose to keep it in lower fare band instead by making the fare stages lesser. so all the while, a lot of passengers are paying less as well. but it seem like no one go complain about it also when they pay less.
as for the example given involving Sv76/70/43 --> sv90, if PTC have not increase the rebates from 25 cents to 50 cents from 2008-2009, the scenario will be as follows:
based on 2008 price (before increase).
1. To work:
43/70/76: Tai Seng Christian Church --> opp Tai Seng MRT ($0.67)
90: aft Upp Paya Lebar Road --> St Aero ($0.42) (base on fares of 0.67 and rebates of 25 cents)
Total: $1.09
based on 2009 price (as per given by Gohby).
1. To work:
43/70/76: Tai Seng Christian Church --> opp Tai Seng MRT ($0.69)
90: aft Upp Paya Lebar Road --> St Aero ($0.19)
Total: $0.88
compare to S$1.01 now....so when people benefit in 2009 when he/she pay S$0.88 instead of S$1.09, no one come out and praise PTC or SBST, but still complain about fare decrease of 2 cents in 2009 is so little or what. Why cant SBST/PTC reduce the fare last year by 4 cents or 10 cents...
all the while, a lot of people forget about the increase of rebates from 25 cents to 50 cents from 2008-2009. So PTC is wrong to increase the rebates that time. If they just remain it as 25 cents till now, there wont be so much outcry... there might still be certain example whereby fares might be higher... but do compare to the 2008 price also if want to make true comparison.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned in the previous pages, and I don't want to spend time checking the past pages now, but with distance fares now, if we want to make a journey (for example, change of plans or there's some emergency) when we are outside and we have just alighted from the bus or MRT, there is no way to check or confirm our fare. In a certain sense, it's like just tapping your card and hoping for the best.
One thing I'd like to confirm though. If one has a bus pass and takes the MRT after a bus journey, will the MRT fare be calculated as part of the distance fare or will it be calculated as a separate journey? Likewise for MRT pass and taking a bus.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
if they travel such far distances as from east to west already need to transfer one bus or MRT and pay 69¢+69¢-50¢=88¢. thus they save 2¢ if their journey requires a change from/to MRT, or from/to bus.
I did travel last monday for the same journey. the deductions were:
Prior to 3.7.10, it was 69 cts
On monday 5.7.10, it was 76 cts
Therefore, there is an increase of 7 cts
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
No problems.
Anyway, I do know many people who have had to pay much more even if they appear to benefit, because the fare stages discriminated against bus companies to try to offer first fare band (4.0 fare stages) for most passengers to make a convenient short trip transfer.
A notable example is the one quoted on newspaper, where commuters now have to pay 6.2km worth of fare (for actual mileage) from Kranji MRT to JB CIQ, up from the token 3.2km offered to passengers coming from Kranji MRT. The corresponding fare hike is an outright 40¢ for cash-paying passengers, and benefits from a free rides to a fare hike of as high as 35¢ if prior distance travelled is less than 3.2km.
Some of the services flagged for huge disparity between stage-based fares and distance-based fares are Services 155, 852 and 854, if you were following the thread earlier on.
There must be some who really save on their journeys who but it also seems there are many more who have to pay a higher fare. It would be interesting to see from the SBS annual report the collected revenue since dist based fare was introduced.
Like dragg said, no need to introduce expensive technology if really want to benefit commuters. Just reduce the price. There must be some scholar up there itching for a promotion, doing his best to serve his political masters and entrenching his position, while at the same time forgetting that our bus service is for the people.
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Save only if you keep transferring bus to MRT to bus so on. Compared to last time of course cheaper.
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Originally posted by BJK:
I did travel last monday for the same journey. the deductions were:
Prior to 3.7.10, it was 69 cts
On monday 5.7.10, it was 76 cts
Therefore, there is an increase of 7 cts
sounds like a direct journey... i'm paying 10¢ more for my most oft-used direct journey also..
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tis distance travel is totally one of the
worst system
pay more only!!
what 45 min to make transfer?!
even before 45 mins also consider
a new ride!!
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
There must be some who really save on their journeys who but it also seems there are many more who have to pay a higher fare. It would be interesting to see from the SBS annual report the collected revenue since dist based fare was introduced.
Like dragg said, no need to introduce expensive technology if really want to benefit commuters. Just reduce the price. There must be some scholar up there itching for a promotion, doing his best to serve his political masters and entrenching his position, while at the same time forgetting that our bus service is for the people.
sad to say, but i agree. they msut be seen as doing something, revamping something for the greater good. if you're up there, you'll get booted out if you can't come up with something like this, or convince public transport operators to lower their fares to a point where service standards also drop as well.
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Originally posted by noahnoah:
tis distance travel is totally one of the
worst system
pay more only!!
what 45 min to make transfer?!
even before 45 mins also consider
a new ride!!
yes i have observed that too. need some proof though. going to print out my ezlink card transactions soon.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
sad to say, but i agree. they msut be seen as doing something, revamping something for the greater good. if you're up there, you'll get booted out if you can't come up with something like this, or convince public transport operators to lower their fares to a point where service standards also drop as well.
guess wat I got from LTA corp comms?Parks is now labelled as premium type, so no more trf.
Still getting thru over the isolated issues i.e. Svs like 60 those type.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
have nothing much to say about the direct bus fares though... cos like what tamago have said, SBST have try to give benefit to passengers in the past, when passengers are suppose to pay higher fare with higher fare band, but SBST choose to keep it in lower fare band instead by making the fare stages lesser. so all the while, a lot of passengers are paying less as well. but it seem like no one go complain about it also when they pay less.
as for the example given involving Sv76/70/43 --> sv90, if PTC have not increase the rebates from 25 cents to 50 cents from 2008-2009, the scenario will be as follows:
based on 2008 price (before increase).
1. To work:
43/70/76: Tai Seng Christian Church --> opp Tai Seng MRT ($0.67)
90: aft Upp Paya Lebar Road --> St Aero ($0.42) (base on fares of 0.67 and rebates of 25 cents)
Total: $1.09
based on 2009 price (as per given by Gohby).
1. To work:
43/70/76: Tai Seng Christian Church --> opp Tai Seng MRT ($0.69)
90: aft Upp Paya Lebar Road --> St Aero ($0.19)
Total: $0.88
compare to S$1.01 now....so when people benefit in 2009 when he/she pay S$0.88 instead of S$1.09, no one come out and praise PTC or SBST, but still complain about fare decrease of 2 cents in 2009 is so little or what. Why cant SBST/PTC reduce the fare last year by 4 cents or 10 cents...
all the while, a lot of people forget about the increase of rebates from 25 cents to 50 cents from 2008-2009. So PTC is wrong to increase the rebates that time. If they just remain it as 25 cents till now, there wont be so much outcry... there might still be certain example whereby fares might be higher... but do compare to the 2008 price also if want to make true comparison.
You are entirely missing the crux of my post. The purpose of my post is to objectively and clearly point out that my fares has risen, by a significant extent, this time round. It was not meant to be a historical comparison of prices because: (1): There is no end to such historical comparison of prices (How far back do we want to compare to? When feeder fares were still 25¢? When policemen were still wearing shorts?); (2) That would be digressing from the very purpose of my post, and the topic (Distance Fares) in the first place.
Hmm.. you are using Oct 07-Oct 08 prices. Why? In 2007/8, though there was a bus hike where all the bus fares across all fare bands increased, people taking this bus journey (43/70/76->90) will benefit because they increased the transfer rebate from 25¢-40¢. In a sense, you are doing selective statistical comparison here. Incidentally (or purposefully), the 2008 fares are the priciest for that particular bus journey.
Why did you say in order to make a true comparison, take 2008 fares? Why can't I take 2009/07/06/05/04/03/02/01, etc etc etc where fares, as a whole, are lower as the true comparison? Kindly justify.
Evidently, you neglected the fact that when the transfer rebates rose from 25¢-40¢ in Oct 08, fares across ALL fare bands increased! That increase affected EVERYONE (though some will still benefit because of the increase in transfer rebates), it was reported that it's a fare hike. Hence, the increase of transfer rebates from 25¢-40¢ is NOT a blessing engendered by the bus companies; it's merely a transfer of revenue sources, for the revenue lost from this increase had been shrewdly incorporated in the increase of basic fares.
What about other fares that went uncommented? The senior citizen fares? According to your "true" comparison, the increment of senior citizen fares is even greater! Direct journeys lagi worse (as you've acknowledged).
I may be wrong, but from the way you crafted your post, the way you seemed so deferential towards SBST/PTC (such as thanking them for the subjective increase in rebates), you come across to me as someone with vested interests - are you working for SBST/SMRT, or a shareholder?
If you are neither, you can consider being either of the two.Above all, let me reiterate that the point of my post is to show that people who do transfers may not benefit from distance fares, which is widely purported to benefit them in the first place. Senior Citizens, as whole, will also suffer. Adults taking direct journeys will suffer. Period.
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Duplicate post
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Duplicate post
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From Opp Bishan North Shopping Mall > Bishan Stn > Toa Payoh Stn > Macpherson Rd/ POSB
Old: $0.69 + $0.71 + $0.69 - $1 = $1.09
New: $0.71 + FREE + $0.38 = $1.09.
But see who now collects the full fare
Return wise
New: $0.81 + $0.20 + $0.08 = $1.09
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Reminds me
tat 10c SMRT rebate for CBD stations before 0730 still gotch?
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
Oh sorry for that :(
Fares will be higher per km if they were calculated in this manner, and the fare you pay under displacement-based fare will be roughly the same as distance-based fare.
And it incentivises bus companies to not use express routes whose displacement of the 2 bus stops far away might be much less than that of distance required to reach there. A closer distance between 2 bus stops will become preferred as they don't seem to "lose" that much.
hmm but i think displacement-based is more fair. the tpy and yishun issues as stated. besides, express routes usually are relatively straight so dont really think that it will affect it too much. just my 2c haha
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Originally posted by jayh272416:
hmm but i think displacement-based is more fair. the tpy and yishun issues as stated. besides, express routes usually are relatively straight so dont really think that it will affect it too much. just my 2c haha
Think again. The worst affected on top of Parks 408 & 409 are Express direct trip passengers all thks to e revamp structure +60c.
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Express example.
Sv 506
From Bt Batok/ Opp Blk 628 to Blk 195/ Jln Toa Payoh.
Old: $1.85 + $0.69 - $0.50: $2.04
New: X-fer to 8, 26, 31, 90 @ Opp Swimming Cplx $2.05 + $0.04 = $2.09. X-fer at Trellis Twr $2.01 + $0.08 = $2.09
But if it's direct to Trellis Twr/ Opp Swimming Cplx is from $1.85 to $2.01/ $2.05 resp.
See e fare diff.
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Those with direct train will have serious fare hikes.