Distance-based throughfare & 2.5% cut in fares from July 3rd
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Originally posted by sbst275:
dun forget they're hoping more ppl to take public tpt as well.Yes average passenger fare is going to be diluted.
But seriously w/ higher riders, better reason to push operator to procure more bigger buses.
i'm talking shareholders bro. what are u talking about?
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i shall share how i benefitted from dist.-based fare, two of my regular trips.
Sin Ming Road - AMK Ave10
130 amtech bldg - int = 2.7km
261 int - ave10 blk 465 = 1.5km
New Fare: 4.2km = $0.81
Old Fare: $0.69 + $0.19 = $0.88
for my younger brother,
Child Fare: $0.78 (OLD), $0.41 (NEW)Sin Ming Road - Bishan
130 amtech bldg - opp citycab = 1.0km
52 opp citycab - bishan stn = 1.7km or
410G opp citycab - int = 2.4km
New Fare: 2.7km / 3.4km = $0.71 / $0.81
Old Fare: $0.69 + $0.19 = $0.88 -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
i'm talking shareholders bro. what are u talking about?
it's a chicken and egg problem la.
I dun care is it shareholder or commuter, cos either side it affects together.
More ppl take public tpt, lesser cars on e road. Means bus co can reduce travelling time n offer better frequency w/ same no of buses.
but it means some decent investment in bigger buses.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
it's a chicken and egg problem la.
I dun care is it shareholder or commuter, cos either side it affects together.
More ppl take public tpt, lesser cars on e road. Means bus co can reduce travelling time n offer better frequency w/ same no of buses.
but it means some decent investment in bigger buses.
car population has never decreased despite PTC's and LTA's constant efforts encouraging singapore to take public transport. It never happened when NEL was built, never when Circle line was built and definitely not now.
You are saying this new dist based system will benefit most commuters?
But it doesnt make sense cos like I said, shareholders are ultimately affected when revenue goes down. Why will these transport companies spend millions on a new system only to see revenue go down? How can you a bus enthusiast say u dun care about shareholders....
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
car population has never decreased despite PTC's and LTA's constant efforts encouraging singapore to take public transport. It never happened when NEL was built, never when Circle line was built and definitely not now.
You are saying this new dist based system will benefit most commuters?
But it doesnt make sense cos like I said, shareholders are ultimately affected when revenue goes down. Why will these transport companies spend millions on a new system only to see revenue go down? How can you a bus enthusiast say u dun care about shareholders....
if I design e whole system, it ought to be bus/ MRT travelling time combi be like 1990s level.Those days, less jam buses could be able to provide better frequency compared to now even w/ SBS's fleet of 2700 then vs 3000 buses now. For 300 more buses, they need to spend money and yet ridership remained stable - not good for shareholders if we were to really compare.
Also when you've more riders you've e push to do things better literally - things like iris.
Seriously speaking, if really we talk abt shareholders interest, maybe the farecard idea tat propped up before MRT was built would have never surfaced - imagine the upfront cost needed to invest in e system.
End of e day, if look at e system for the commuters 1st, eventually as things get efficient the shareholders do benefit.
As for distance fare, I've alrdy said before, there's some form of govt politics to push ridership as well.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
it's a chicken and egg problem la.
I dun care is it shareholder or commuter, cos either side it affects together.
More ppl take public tpt, lesser cars on e road. Means bus co can reduce travelling time n offer better frequency w/ same no of buses.
but it means some decent investment in bigger buses.
this is so bullshit.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
car population has never decreased despite PTC's and LTA's constant efforts encouraging singapore to take public transport. It never happened when NEL was built, never when Circle line was built and definitely not now.
You are saying this new dist based system will benefit most commuters?
But it doesnt make sense cos like I said, shareholders are ultimately affected when revenue goes down. Why will these transport companies spend millions on a new system only to see revenue go down? How can you a bus enthusiast say u dun care about shareholders....
how can the car population go down when the the population go up?
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Dataset error led to wrong charges: LTA
LTA now working with SBS, SMRT to check data
Jul 16, 2010
Today Exclusive
SINGAPORE - If not for an alert Today reader, bus commuters travelling along a stretch at Buona Vista may well still be over-charged for their rides. And the question now is if the error he uncovered is happening elsewhere.
Mr Dennis Puk Leung Kong had spotted that the distance in opposite directions between two bus-stops on North Buona Vista Road and Commonwealth Avenue differed on the public transport fare calculator website. On the eve of distance-based fares kicking in, he wrote in to highlight the "inconsistency".
MediaCorp posed the question to the authorities on July 6 and, yesterday, the Land Transport Authority confirmed there was indeed an error. The distance between the bus stops opposite Block 43, Commonwealth Avenue, and opposite Buona Vista MRT Station should be 0.3 kilometres, and not 0.6 km as originally computed.
The error has been rectified, said an LTA spokeswoman. "This was due to a dataset error, where the additional distance from an earlier temporary local route diversion was not reversed after the diversion was over," she said.
The number of commuters affected by this error is "likely to be small", she said, without giving an estimate. The LTA is now working with public transport operators SBS Transit and SMRT to confirm that there are no similar errors elsewhere.
The spokeswoman added that commuters affected between July 3 - when distance-based fares kicked in - and July 9 can make their claims via Transitlink's website (www.transitlink.com.sg), at its ticket offices or can call its hotline at 1800 225 5663. The bus services plying the two stops are 74, 91, 95, 191, 196, 198 and 200. All are SBS services.
Commuters at Buona Vista last night were forgiving of the error. "The area has been under construction for some time, so it can be quite messy," said undergraduate Ooi Shan Chin, 21. He will not be checking if he is eligible for any refund, as "it's too tedious for a few cents".
Another commuter, programmer Mr Kim, 39, said the error was acceptable as long as the authorities allowed for claims, and added that he would check.
MediaCorp was unable to reach Mr Puk by press time last night but, in his initial email, the National University of Singapore systems engineer noted that the "crux of distance fares lies in the distance dataset used to calculate the fares".
He added: "If the accuracy of the dataset is questionable, commuters may find themselves incorrectly charged ... Multiply this across a number of stops travelled and one could be unknowingly over-paying for distance not travelled."
Adult ez-link bus fares for air-con services increase by 1 to 10 cents between the different distance bands.
LTA said it is "carefully looking out for such teething issues" in the initial phase of the new fare system, and would be doing "immediate rectification whenever necessary".
"We apologise for any inconvenience caused," said its spokeswoman.extracted from CNA forum.
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So how to get refund? Or more importantly, how to compensate the wrongly overcharged? Or just say sorry, and move on?
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Originally posted by ditzy:
So how to get refund? Or more importantly, how to compensate the wrongly overcharged? Or just say sorry, and move on?
He will not be checking if he is eligible for any refund, as "it's too tedious for a few cents".
do you know why the above comment is included in the report?
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who double checks and ensure that the distance given is correct? does LTA verify all of them?
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Originally posted by dragg:
who double checks and ensure that the distance given is correct? does LTA verify all of them?
I don't think they can, nor do they want to. Most of the time, we would be taken for a ride (pun intended).
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Originally posted by dragg:
this is so bullshit.
bullshit?if the thing is not efficient, how are operators going to make money?
Since there's real example, take a look at Malaysia. Even with diesel subsidy, no need to spend money onto farecard system and need not purchase bigger fleet like double decks and yet they're still making losses!
Why? Simply they dun have all e basic decent things for efficient operations. I'm talking abt making bus schedules and so on.
Seriously if you're saying bullshit, you can forget abt them using farecard or iris.. We would be back to e old days paying by coins and bus operator hire ppl to collect and transport e coins to the banks daily.
Needless to mention abt e iris and it's came about.
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Originally posted by dragg:
Dataset error led to wrong charges: LTA
LTA now working with SBS, SMRT to check data
Jul 16, 2010
Today Exclusive
SINGAPORE - If not for an alert Today reader, bus commuters travelling along a stretch at Buona Vista may well still be over-charged for their rides. And the question now is if the error he uncovered is happening elsewhere.
Mr Dennis Puk Leung Kong had spotted that the distance in opposite directions between two bus-stops on North Buona Vista Road and Commonwealth Avenue differed on the public transport fare calculator website. On the eve of distance-based fares kicking in, he wrote in to highlight the "inconsistency".
MediaCorp posed the question to the authorities on July 6 and, yesterday, the Land Transport Authority confirmed there was indeed an error. The distance between the bus stops opposite Block 43, Commonwealth Avenue, and opposite Buona Vista MRT Station should be 0.3 kilometres, and not 0.6 km as originally computed.
The error has been rectified, said an LTA spokeswoman. "This was due to a dataset error, where the additional distance from an earlier temporary local route diversion was not reversed after the diversion was over," she said.
The number of commuters affected by this error is "likely to be small", she said, without giving an estimate. The LTA is now working with public transport operators SBS Transit and SMRT to confirm that there are no similar errors elsewhere.
The spokeswoman added that commuters affected between July 3 - when distance-based fares kicked in - and July 9 can make their claims via Transitlink's website (www.transitlink.com.sg), at its ticket offices or can call its hotline at 1800 225 5663. The bus services plying the two stops are 74, 91, 95, 191, 196, 198 and 200. All are SBS services.
Commuters at Buona Vista last night were forgiving of the error. "The area has been under construction for some time, so it can be quite messy," said undergraduate Ooi Shan Chin, 21. He will not be checking if he is eligible for any refund, as "it's too tedious for a few cents".
Another commuter, programmer Mr Kim, 39, said the error was acceptable as long as the authorities allowed for claims, and added that he would check.
MediaCorp was unable to reach Mr Puk by press time last night but, in his initial email, the National University of Singapore systems engineer noted that the "crux of distance fares lies in the distance dataset used to calculate the fares".
He added: "If the accuracy of the dataset is questionable, commuters may find themselves incorrectly charged ... Multiply this across a number of stops travelled and one could be unknowingly over-paying for distance not travelled."
Adult ez-link bus fares for air-con services increase by 1 to 10 cents between the different distance bands.
LTA said it is "carefully looking out for such teething issues" in the initial phase of the new fare system, and would be doing "immediate rectification whenever necessary".
"We apologise for any inconvenience caused," said its spokeswoman.extracted from CNA forum.
tis one I've alrdy highlighted nong ago.
Flyover bend dist are tabulated as well.
Basically there are as many as 12 errors on the distance fare tabulation.
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Sv 160 & 170 can cross x-fer riao. 170X still cannot.
FFW svs distance think follow parent riao
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Found a loophole
Bishan St 22/ Opp Bishan Nth Shopping Mall > Bishan MRT > HarbourFront > RWS.
If I take 13 > NSL/ NEL > 188R/ 963R to and fro, it cost $4.56 (2x $2.28). 188R/ 963R to and fro is $2.03 combi.
But if I take 13 > NSL/ NEL, the fare alone is $1.56. So w/ RWS8's $2 fare, it's $5.12!
Pre DBTF would have been $5.42 for both option.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Found a loophole
Bishan St 22/ Opp Bishan Nth Shopping Mall > Bishan MRT > HarbourFront > RWS.
If I take 13 > NSL/ NEL > 188R/ 963R to and fro, it cost $4.56 (2x $2.28). 188R/ 963R to and fro is $2.03 combi.
But if I take 13 > NSL/ NEL, the fare alone is $1.56. So w/ RWS8's $2 fare, it's $5.12!
Pre DBTF would have been $5.42 for both sides.
actually going to RWS or transferring to an express bus can be cheaper nowadays, because you only pay an additional 60¢ on top of basic-tier distance-based trunk fare.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
actually did highlight before with service_238 that going to RWS or transferring to an express bus can be a lot cheaper nowadays.
but those taking 506 direct for eg kena burnt.Was thinking wat if e top up formula was 50c....
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Originally posted by sbst275:
but those taking 506 direct for eg kena burnt.Was thinking wat if e top up formula was 50c....
yeah lor :( actually previously express were meant to be a one-trip service, meaning they try to make as many people within walking distance of the service since it is most effective for people who used to have to take MRT and transfer to a feeder, who both save on fares and enjoy the convenience the most.
hope this brings about a revamp and more direct express services so people can make use of them only for its express sector then move on to other services, but this might also diminish the convenience appeal of express services.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
yeah lor :( actually previously express were meant to be a one-trip service, meaning they try to make as many people within walking distance of the service since it is most effective for people who used to have to take MRT and transfer to a feeder, who both save on fares and enjoy the convenience the most.
hope this brings about a revamp and more direct express services so people can make use of them only for its express sector then move on to other services, but this might also diminish the convenience appeal of express services.
Semi Express sectors...Actually now able to push, seriously not all bus routes need to stop everyone one de. Some with e time savings from skipping bus stops can make up for waiting and x-fer time.
But many Singkie hate e idea of transfer in e past w/ e penalty.
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Gek Poh Shopping Centre to Tampines East CC by 502 and 518
old fare: $2.16+$2.16-$0.50=$3.82
new fare: $2.40+$0.14=$2.54you save: $1.28 or 33.5%
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Seriously speaking, probably transfer discount could cease for Premium & CT (they're alrdy planned to serve e neighbourhood to town)..
But can't think why Parks not given any disc (considered Premium Sv) yet RWS 188R/ 963R is considered for DBTF.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Semi Express sectors...Actually now able to push, seriously not all bus routes need to stop everyone one de. Some with e time savings from skipping bus stops can make up for waiting and x-fer time.
But many Singkie hate e idea of transfer in e past w/ e penalty.
yes. it's a bit like concession pass for transfer penalty.
but how to go about re-routing or revamping the express network is a much deeper and messy project, and might affect stakeholders like regular commuters on express services.
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
yes. it's a bit like concession pass for transfer penalty.
but how to go about re-routing or revamping the express network is a much deeper and messy project, and might affect stakeholders like regular commuters on express services.
How I see is can be done, but it's going to be frigging slow (takes dunno how many phases area by area) and e changes is going to take time to digest esp e part of the designated interchange pt.Somemore need to designate which should be semi express or basic trunk sv.
Yeah, regular express commuter would be affected as well.
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should anyone of us go try whether 160 & 170 can really cross x-fer now?
