Originally posted by iamnotaclonetroll:
Hi. I'm not sure. Probably so. I wished they opt for a better quality European bodywork. In any case, what do you think of the sliding plug exit doors sytem of the MAN buses? Do you think that the design is seriously flawed? Is there an exit door system whereby, when the doors slide open, you can practically view the inside mechanisms? What if some idiot decided to try his luck and put his hand inside? I've seen the cover of the exit doors of the MAN A22 rattling when it's speeding. This is caused due to poor design and the fact that it was not secured properly.
The chassi can send from Germany but cannot bodywork in Germany, I'd prefer the Citaros then. Or the bus bundles like MAN Lion's City.
The door system on the A22/NL323Fs are flawed. The air doors on the O405/Gs were better, as well as the outward pusher type for the other buses like the NL323F MCV, O530s, OC500LEs etc. Put hand there not much problem only some cuts and flesh injuries. Yes I have seen the doors rattle, the OC500LEs were much better, even though they are heavy duty and jerk loads.
They shouldve used outward pushing doors. Also, this round's bodywork by GM is sai, complete sai. The bodywork wheezes, sqeeaks and lots of creaking. They should've seeked MAN for bodywork, since they have close connections with STK.
Originally posted by lemon1974:there is no official confirmation previously that there is only 100 buses in the second batch.. who told you that?
Right before the press release, I remembered I saw a picture somewhere that wrote hat 100 rigid buses and 30 bendy buses will be added into SMRT's fleet. That was somewhere late last year.
Originally posted by Gus.chong:Right before the press release, I remembered I saw a picture somewhere that wrote hat 100 rigid buses and 30 bendy buses will be added into SMRT's fleet. That was somewhere late last year.
Yes you're right Gus.chong I saw it too. It said 30 bendys and some other stuff.
Originally posted by Gus.chong:Right before the press release, I remembered I saw a picture somewhere that wrote hat 100 rigid buses and 30 bendy buses will be added into SMRT's fleet. That was somewhere late last year.
that is an estimated figure for the tender to supply tyres i think... it already clearly mention that the figures MIGHT changed..... that does not mean that SMRT only placed 100 buses.. it can placed order for 200 buses and 100 of them deployed on the road by this year...
Originally posted by OMSI123:Yes you're right Gus.chong I saw it too. It said 30 bendys and some other stuff.
It actually mention something about the number of buses in the three SMRT depots.
Originally posted by lemon1974:that is an estimated figure for the tender to supply tyres i think... it already clearly mention that the figures MIGHT changed..... that does not mean that SMRT only placed 100 buses.. it can placed order for 200 buses and 100 of them deployed on the road by this year...
I will believe you for this time...because I'm unsure why only 100 buses instead of more, further more there is still BSEP going on for the next few months.
Originally posted by lemon1974:that is an estimated figure for the tender to supply tyres i think... it already clearly mention that the figures MIGHT changed..... that does not mean that SMRT only placed 100 buses.. it can placed order for 200 buses and 100 of them deployed on the road by this year...
Originally posted by OMSI123:The chassi can send from Germany but cannot bodywork in Germany, I'd prefer the Citaros then. Or the bus bundles like MAN Lion's City.
The door system on the A22/NL323Fs are flawed. The air doors on the O405/Gs were better, as well as the outward pusher type for the other buses like the NL323F MCV, O530s, OC500LEs etc. Put hand there not much problem only some cuts and flesh injuries. Yes I have seen the doors rattle, the OC500LEs were much better, even though they are heavy duty and jerk loads.
They shouldve used outward pushing doors. Also, this round's bodywork by GM is sai, complete sai. The bodywork wheezes, sqeeaks and lots of creaking. They should've seeked MAN for bodywork, since they have close connections with STK.
Unfortunately, MAN currently do not offer it's integral Lion's City series on RHD configuration. That is because they found it more cost effective to team up with coachbuilders such as Caetano (for UK with the EcoCity) and Gemilang than to redesign the Lion's City range for the RHD market.
Hopefully futher demand from SMRT would change their minds on this, and thus give us better quality buses.
Originally posted by OMSI123:The chassi can send from Germany but cannot bodywork in Germany, I'd prefer the Citaros then. Or the bus bundles like MAN Lion's City.
The door system on the A22/NL323Fs are flawed. The air doors on the O405/Gs were better, as well as the outward pusher type for the other buses like the NL323F MCV, O530s, OC500LEs etc. Put hand there not much problem only some cuts and flesh injuries. Yes I have seen the doors rattle, the OC500LEs were much better, even though they are heavy duty and jerk loads.
They shouldve used outward pushing doors. Also, this round's bodywork by GM is sai, complete sai. The bodywork wheezes, sqeeaks and lots of creaking. They should've seeked MAN for bodywork, since they have close connections with STK.
I agree, would rather SMRT to invest more on the bodywork rather than the engine. The A22 is also available in 280hp like the Citaro, so it makes no sense for SMRT to get the more pricey 320hp version, while getting a cheap bodywork to save costs. Singapore is not very hilly, and since the buses are limited to 60km/h, 250hp would already be sufficient.
As for Masats sliding door system, it's feels cheap too, would be better if SMRT stick to the older outward swinging doors instead.
Originally posted by SBS9C:I agree, would rather SMRT to invest more on the bodywork rather than the engine. The A22 is also available in 280hp like the Citaro, so it makes no sense for SMRT to get the more pricey 320hp version, while getting a cheap bodywork to save costs. Singapore is not very hilly, and since the buses are limited to 60km/h, 250hp would already be sufficient.
As for Masats sliding door system, it's feels cheap too, would be better if SMRT stick to the older outward swinging doors instead.
A22 and A24 is Lion City bodywork~
Originally posted by SBS9C:I agree, would rather SMRT to invest more on the bodywork rather than the engine. The A22 is also available in 280hp like the Citaro, so it makes no sense for SMRT to get the more pricey 320hp version, while getting a cheap bodywork to save costs. Singapore is not very hilly, and since the buses are limited to 60km/h, 250hp would already be sufficient.
As for Masats sliding door system, it's feels cheap too, would be better if SMRT stick to the older outward swinging doors instead.
i completely disagree with you on the engine part. getting a more powerful engine will save fuel costs in the long run (consider rising fuel prises) as it will labour less to acheive optimum performance. yes, buses are still limited to 60km/h but having a more powerful engine will make the bus more driveable, giving the driver an easier time driving and more power available to keep up with traffic or to overtake. the fuel consumption of lower horsepower and capacity citaros is pathetic compared to the man a22s or even b9tls.
Originally posted by TIB868X:i completely disagree with you on the engine part. getting a more powerful engine will save fuel costs in the long run (consider rising fuel prises) as it will labour less to acheive optimum performance. yes, buses are still limited to 60km/h but having a more powerful engine will make the bus more driveable, giving the driver an easier time driving and more power available to keep up with traffic or to overtake. the fuel consumption of lower horsepower and capacity citaros is pathetic compared to the man a22s or even b9tls.
Not exactly true. The more powerful engine will only save fuel if the less powerful engine is running beyond it's optimum range. However, the converse also applies. If the more powerful engine is running under it's optimal range, it would also use up more fuel (i.e. most of the time at low rpms due to too little a load). The key is to find a optimal balance where the drivetrain would be most efficient for the type of terrain and service (city traffic or short distance high turnover, rural, highway) that the bus would operate on.
The powerful engines scenario applies especially to large displacement engines, where the crankshaft of the engine would have to travel a longer distance at every cycle, thus being very inefficient, and space consuming due to the larger engine. Advanced systems such as intercoolers and variable geometry turbocharges do provide the ability to have a smaller displacement engine while maintaining similar power and torque levels.
Last but not least, the more powerful the engine, the maintaience and consumerables costs is generally higher as there would be more stress on components. In such cases, oil and filter changes would have to be done more often. The engine could then be derated from it's original output to save costs and extend it's lifespan.
Originally posted by SMB388S:
Cannot buy 280hp~ Underpowered like KUB become very slow jerky n uncomfortable~A22 and A24 is Lion City bodywork~
The bodywork is "copied" from MAN by GM don't talk cork!
SMRT should be like BVG from Germany and Singapore bus company TIBS. They bought the set-bus, cause it has better value. Now SMRT want's to go the Cheapo way. Buying new buses doesn't mean it WHOA SO NICE. Must see the bodywork. That's why the O405/Gs run perfectly for more than 14 years with not much breakdowns. Kudos to TIBS.
Originally posted by OMSI123:The bodywork is "copied" from MAN by GM don't talk cork!
SMRT should be like BVG from Germany and Singapore bus company TIBS. They bought the set-bus, cause it has better value. Now SMRT want's to go the Cheapo way. Buying new buses doesn't mean it WHOA SO NICE. Must see the bodywork. That's why the O405/Gs run perfectly for more than 14 years with not much breakdowns. Kudos to TIBS.
Originally posted by SMB388S:
You are so wrong~ sgwiki say Superlion and Mandy bodywork is from MAN and Gemilang only assemble~ and sgwiki is confirmed correct~
Yes, the bodywork is a licensed Lion's City Hybrid/Lion's City GL bodywork (so in a way it is from MAN), but is built and assembled by Gemilang. If the bodywork is from MAN, assembly is not needed, as it is already an intergral product (A21 and A23).
Originally posted by SBS9C:Yes, the bodywork is a licensed Lion's City Hybrid/Lion's City GL bodywork (so in a way it is from MAN), but is built and assembled by Gemilang. If the bodywork is from MAN no need assemble, already an intergral product (A21 and A23).
SMRT Buses chose that Lion's City Hybrid design is due to the aesthetically pleasing design. It looks very sleek and eye-catching. The "hair" actually has a purpose - to hide the Denso airconditioning pod like how the original Lion's City Hybrid hides the high-performance capacitors used to store braking energy as well as the energy-management system. In the actual Hybrid bus, cool air is channelled to the capacitors through the front air ducts to cool the capacitors.
Also, the Lion's City Hybrid design won the red dot award: product design 2011! Hope this kind of help answer this FAQ.
Info from BIS~ number one page on Singapore Buses~
Nowadays A22 oso like.... i dunno how to say
Originally posted by SMB388S:This is really an FAQ (frequently asked question) - what's the purpose of that "hair" on the Superlion for?
SMRT Buses chose that Lion's City Hybrid design is due to the aesthetically pleasing design. It looks very sleek and eye-catching. The "hair" actually has a purpose - to hide the Denso airconditioning pod like how the original Lion's City Hybrid hides the high-performance capacitors used to store braking energy as well as the energy-management system. In the actual Hybrid bus, cool air is channelled to the capacitors through the front air ducts to cool the capacitors.
Also, the Lion's City Hybrid design won the red dot award: product design 2011! Hope this kind of help answer this FAQ.
Info from BIS~ number one page on Singapore Buses~
I wonder if BIS post ''SMB388S from SGF is annoying'', will you copy paste here?
Originally posted by SMB388S:
Bodywork is by MAN~
bodywork is by gemilang but design by MAN.
like apple product, design in california but assemble in china, your home country.
Originally posted by SMB195G:bodywork is by gemilang but design by MAN.
like apple product, design in california but assemble in china, your home country.
They should stop investing in buses made by Gemilang~ With/Without maintenance, the bus still gets cui easily. Worst for SMRT, the company maintenace already not up to standard~ SBS Transit, even though got the borderline there, still have this problem of buses made by Gemilang going cui~
Originally posted by iamnotaclonetroll:
Hi. I'm not sure. Probably so. I wished they opt for a better quality European bodywork. In any case, what do you think of the sliding plug exit doors sytem of the MAN buses? Do you think that the design is seriously flawed? Is there an exit door system whereby, when the doors slide open, you can practically view the inside mechanisms? What if some idiot decided to try his luck and put his hand inside? I've seen the cover of the exit doors of the MAN A22 rattling when it's speeding. This is caused due to poor design and the fact that it was not secured properly.
I am not too sure about the rattling, but there was once when i was on an A22 on 966 (forgot the rego), it was pouring outside. When the exit doors closed, rainwater spilled into the buss from the sliding mechanism of the doors, as the rain was collected by the tray like system on the door system. The people in the bus had to avoid the spill.. I wonder if this will affect the pulley / belt system in the long run..
Don't like the way that Gemilang omits stuff from the original bodywork such as MAN Lion logos from the front and rear, MAN logos at the sides, MAN logos in the interior, as well as the roof and side marker lights. In addition, the driver's cabin roof curve design is copied from MCV's bodywork and not from MAN.
Hope the last 100 A22s use the updated MCV bodywork.
Originally posted by SBS9C:Don't like the way that Gemilang omits stuff from the original bodywork such as MAN Lion logos from the front and rear, MAN logos at the sides, MAN logos in the interior, as well as the roof and side marker lights. In addition, the driver's cabin roof curve design is copied from MCV's bodywork and not from MAN.
Hope the last 100 A22s use the updated MCV bodywork.
Originally posted by SMB195G:bodywork is by gemilang but design by MAN.
like apple product, design in california but assemble in china, your home country.
That is the point I am saying!